Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:33 AM - Re: Who got lost without an ELT? (n395v)
2. 08:43 AM - Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (gregmchugh)
3. 09:05 AM - Re: ELT Antenna Mount (n395v)
4. 11:00 AM - Re: Point me in the right direction (David Lloyd)
5. 03:51 PM - Re: Point me in the right direction (Bill Bradburry)
6. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 04:38 PM - Re: Re: Next generation wig-wag controller for LED lamps (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 04:40 PM - Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (Eric M. Jones)
11. 06:40 PM - Looking for suggestions (Dan Billingsley)
12. 08:39 PM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:53 PM - Re: Looking for suggestions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 11:02 PM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (Jeff Luckey)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Who got lost without an ELT? |
In 1972
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hale_Boggs
--------
Milt
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370433#370433
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| Subject: | Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft |
Bob,
Looks good. Let's try to keep the option open to drop in the PICAXE 8 pin
chip in place of the standard PIC chip. I am not sure of the PIC chip they
started with but the pinouts for the current PICAXE 8 pin are shown here.
http://www.picaxe.com/docs/picaxem2.pdf
I believe the PICAXE is simply one of the standard PIC chips with
their firmware installed and the chip marked with their designation,
at least that is what they used to be. They used to still have the
PIC product designation on the chip with a sticker applied to
show the PICAXE designation.
The standard PICAXE development boards connect pins 2 and 7 to
the serial connection to the PC and the onboard loader is connected
to these pins. In practice the pins can be reconfigured in the
application so they are available when off of the development board
for other uses. If they are not used in the application then the option
to keep the serial port connected to the PC would still be available
even in the application hardware configuration. Connecting these
to the external connector would allow access to the chip from a PC.
Of course the serial port could also be used for I/O to any
standard RS-232 serial device by the application. Here is a description
of the 8 bit development board.
http://www.picaxe.com/docs/axe021.pdf
Greg McHugh
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370450#370450
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| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna Mount |
> but he did sign the bill mandating ELTs.
Actually he signed the act enabling OSHA in which the ELT was attached as a last
minute rider.
Seems they had to pass it to know what was in it.
Do not Archive
--------
Milt
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370451#370451
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| Subject: | Re: Point me in the right direction |
Bill,
That sounds like a marginal current flow path....meaning you can't pass
enough reliable current to setup the strobe's needs to fire correctly.
A continuity tester will sometimes lie to you as it needs very little
current to show a good path. You could have a wire with all the strands
broken except for one and the tester will indicate it is a good path. Look
to for a poor/cold solder joint, wrong, corroded, contaminated or damaged
pin in a connector and it could be that you have a wire break inside of the
insulated covering. I have found this fault a time or two where a perfectly
good wire is broken inside; maybe during manufacture or packaging
mishandling, etc. Anyway, it sounds like a defective current path...
Dave
___________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 7:58 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Point me in the right direction
> <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
> My strobes will not fire when they are plugged into the plane electrical
> system. They will fire if 12V from a power supply is hooked up to them.
>
> The schematic is basically: battery, to master solenoid, to fuse, to
> switch,
> to strobe power supply.
>
> Sometimes it will fire once and stop and sometimes it will fire 6-7 times
> and stop.
>
> I have continuity with the ground pin on the Molex power supply connector
> to
> aircraft ground.
>
> With the master on, I have 12V at the fuse, I have 12V incoming to the
> switch.
>
> With the master on and the strobe switch off, I have .65V after the
> switch.
>
> With the strobe switch on I have 12V after the switch.
>
> With the strobe switch on I have sometimes 12V, sometimes 10V, and
> sometimes
> 8V at the power pin in the connector going to the strobe power supply.
>
> At first I thought the switch was bad then that I have a loose connection
> somewhere after the switch. It doesn't seem reasonable that all this
> could
> have happened at the same time. The strobes were fine till I was not able
> to visit the plane for about 6 months. The problem happened when I
> returned
> and tried to power them up.
>
> I suppose the Molex connector pins could be loose but that doesn't explain
> the low voltage.
>
> I plan to move the wire from the strobe switch to the position light
> switch
> tomorrow to see if that helps. None of the other light switches have
> voltage after them with the switch off.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Bill B
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Point me in the right direction |
Dave,
You are correct! I just don't know where the problem was. I replaced all
the wires and connectors today and the strobes worked!
Thanks to everybody for your consideration.
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Point me in the right direction
<skywagon@charter.net>
Bill,
That sounds like a marginal current flow path....meaning you can't pass
enough reliable current to setup the strobe's needs to fire correctly.
A continuity tester will sometimes lie to you as it needs very little
current to show a good path. You could have a wire with all the strands
broken except for one and the tester will indicate it is a good path. Look
to for a poor/cold solder joint, wrong, corroded, contaminated or damaged
pin in a connector and it could be that you have a wire break inside of the
insulated covering. I have found this fault a time or two where a perfectly
good wire is broken inside; maybe during manufacture or packaging
mishandling, etc. Anyway, it sounds like a defective current path...
Dave
___________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 7:58 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Point me in the right direction
> <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
> My strobes will not fire when they are plugged into the plane electrical
> system. They will fire if 12V from a power supply is hooked up to them.
>
> The schematic is basically: battery, to master solenoid, to fuse, to
> switch,
> to strobe power supply.
>
> Sometimes it will fire once and stop and sometimes it will fire 6-7 times
> and stop.
>
> I have continuity with the ground pin on the Molex power supply connector
> to
> aircraft ground.
>
> With the master on, I have 12V at the fuse, I have 12V incoming to the
> switch.
>
> With the master on and the strobe switch off, I have .65V after the
> switch.
>
> With the strobe switch on I have 12V after the switch.
>
> With the strobe switch on I have sometimes 12V, sometimes 10V, and
> sometimes
> 8V at the power pin in the connector going to the strobe power supply.
>
> At first I thought the switch was bad then that I have a loose connection
> somewhere after the switch. It doesn't seem reasonable that all this
> could
> have happened at the same time. The strobes were fine till I was not able
> to visit the plane for about 6 months. The problem happened when I
> returned
> and tried to power them up.
>
> I suppose the Molex connector pins could be loose but that doesn't explain
> the low voltage.
>
> I plan to move the wire from the strobe switch to the position light
> switch
> tomorrow to see if that helps. None of the other light switches have
> voltage after them with the switch off.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Bill B
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Open source product development for OBAM |
aircraft
At 10:37 AM 4/10/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Looks good. Let's try to keep the option open to drop in the PICAXE 8 pin
>chip in place of the standard PIC chip. I am not sure of the PIC chip they
>started with but the pinouts for the current PICAXE 8 pin are shown here.
Obviously, we have options to do anything. I'd like to see what
we can do with the PIC12F683. It's a part I stock in quantity
and it fits the present board layout. It's certainly capable
of the sorts of jelly-bean products that would fit into the
proposed enclosure.
I am considering a next-step-up which will have to have USB
interface capability. The PIC182458 offers 12-bit a/d and
USB2.0 support on chip but that's a do-lots-board still looking
for some projects. Right now, the 12F683 board is done per the
schematic I posted and easily modified to handle the larger
power mos-fets for the 5A wig-wag controller.
Lets get our feet wet in a short path project first . . .
are there pin-for-pin subs for the 12F683 in PACAXE?
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Open source product development for OBAM |
aircraft
At 10:37 AM 4/10/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Looks good. Let's try to keep the option open to drop in the PICAXE 8 pin
>chip in place of the standard PIC chip. I am not sure of the PIC chip they
>started with but the pinouts for the current PICAXE 8 pin are shown here.
I looked up the pinout on the PICAXE-08M2. Seems they swapped
sides for the a/d input pins . . . we can do a board that will
exploit the 08M2 but it would be a different board.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Open source product development for OBAM |
aircraft
At 10:37 AM 4/10/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Looks good. Let's try to keep the option open to drop in the PICAXE 8 pin
>chip in place of the standard PIC chip. I am not sure of the PIC chip they
>started with but the pinouts for the current PICAXE 8 pin are shown here.
I looked up the pinout on the PICAXE-08M2. Seems they swapped
sides for the a/d input pins . . . we can do a board that will
exploit the 08M2 but it would be a different board.
Scratch the above. Got my tongue tangled around my eyeteeth
and couldn't see what I was typing. Seems the 08M2 is on
a PIC12F1840 which is pin compatible with the 12F683. So
we could sure go with that one if suits your programming
preferences.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: Next generation wig-wag controller for LED |
lamps
At 11:57 AM 4/9/2012, you wrote:
>
>To that goal, I'd like to suggest using an Arduino.
This is a highly capable device but a bit of an
overkill for things like wig-wag flashers, voltage
monitors, etc.
The challenge is to exploit the scope of
projects that can be implemented in a user
friendly package of the smallest practical
size, cost and parts count. An already stuffed
Arduino board has no aviation friendly i/o
or even an enclosure for $30. I would expect
the wig-wag flasher to be drop-in ready for
use on an airplane and have total bill of
materials under $20 or so.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft |
> >One question I forgot to ask in the previous note. When I looked at
> >using the Perihelion Wig-Wag for my LED landing lights I was
> >surprised at the compact size and the capability to switch the loads
> >on standard landing lights. Is there something unique about this
> >design to handle the 250 watt load?
>
> You'd have to check with Eric as to his
> design philosophy but based on what is
> generally known, getting the heat in the
> FETs under control has two components.
Bob is right. The Perihelion Design Wig-wags use either an FDD6670S (30V) or an
FDD8444 (40V). Both of these are D packages (TO-252) which are surface mountable
and about 1/4 square. The mounting is done by soldering the package to the
PCB which itself is designed for maximum dissipation. The Faston lugs themselves
are included in the thermal calculations, as is the potting compound.
For this design I chose high-side switching, since the loads are remote and might
be remotely grounded. The difference is that low-side switching would normally
require an additional wire to the load. The wig-wag itself weighs less than
the additional wire would. The disadvantage is that more a complicated driver
for the FET gate is required.
Mosfets are wonderful parts for wig-wagging, where there is no need for an intermediate
state, they just switch ON and OFF. But they have to be operated within
their specified range. This was a problem when people applied these wigwags
to HIDs. Most HIDs have an extremely high ignition voltage, then a high boost
voltage to induce IR heating to the anode terminal of the lamp. The boost current
is over 30A for a substantial fraction of a second. This would wipe out the
FET. The solution was to supply a CL-11 surge protector and a Zener across
the line for those who intended to wigwag the HIDs. Now they wigwag well.
But for incandescents (or LEDs), and using a surge protector, the wigwag will supply
20A per pulse. This is possible because the gate driver fully saturates
the gate allowing the lowest possible Rds(on) resistance, and thus the smallest
I x I x Rds(on) heating. For 20A, the heat dissipation is about 3.2W, split
among two devices!
Early versions used a 555 timer and a mosfet driver. Later versions have used a
small RC oscillator and a CD4060 CMOS 14 Stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter/Divider.
This would seem an unusual part for this application, but it simply divides
the RC oscillation and goes tick-tock at the correct duty cycle and timingit
does all the work. The 555 was hard to make it do 50% (but it could be done
with a few more parts) and the first pulse was always 1.5X longer than any succeeding
pulsewhich is inelegant and stressed the fets. I was never satisfied
with the early design on this matter.
All parts are surface mount and are assembled under a stereo microscope. The entire
PCB is 1.16 x 0.90. Early on I got a note from a customer saying, Okay, I
see the switch, but where is the wigwag circuitry? There are several styles
of this wigwag, one with the switch WW(d) and one BYO-Switch WW(c) that allows
all sort of switching configurations. I also make these in 12 and 28V and a special
double rate for single head-lights (e.g. the Europa or Glastar). And I
supply the add-on bits for HIDs.
But Bob's approach for flashing LEDs is good.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
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Attachments:
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| Subject: | Looking for suggestions |
Well, the good news is I flew my Kitfox IV for the first time last Saturday.
This was after 4 hours of ground work, taxi testing, etc. I have a brand new
Rotax 912 ULS and it has been performing very well. I am running on the
Aeroelectric Z-16 schematic and after I discovered my bridge rectifier was in
backwards (between the main and essential buss), then replacing it the correct
way, all has (I believed) behaved ok. Saturday I put 1 hour of air time on the
plane doing a racetrack pattern, conversing with the class D tower many times
without a hitch. Today I went up b-4 work talking to ground, the tower and then
took the active. I commenced another racetrack pattern and when I went to
contact tower to come down my radio went south (my 5 Amp fuse blew which is on
the essential buss). What a way to find out if your transponder is working or
not as I squawked 7600 and came in via light gun.
I have been running the system with both the main buss as well as the essential
buss turned on...why?...because I have an alternator whine in the headset when
only the main switch is on. I found if I turned on the essential buss, the whine
goes away. So to the questions:
1.Should I not use the essential circuit unless it is, uh,well, essential to do
so?
2. I have previously done a static (no engine running) Amp test across the
essential switch with all loads going and even keyed the mic. The most I got out
of the buss was 7A. I ask because Bob has a note not to go over 4A but I relayed
this info here and some said it should not be an issue.
3. My thoughts today have drifted to the bridge rectifier and I wonder if I
might be better off using a good Schottky Diode (ie...AEC9001-1) as I have
noticed my voltage go up when I turn on the E-buss (I know this is common from
some previous posts) just covering all bases.
4. So, I would welcome any thoughts of what to look at or ideas.
Thanks in advance,
Dan
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Open source product development for OBAM |
aircraft
At 10:37 AM 4/10/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Looks good. Let's try to keep the option open to drop in the PICAXE 8 pin
>chip in place of the standard PIC chip.
I've been poking around the 'net trying to get a better
picture of what the PICAXE is all about. If I am reading
the postings right, PICAXE chips have an on-board interpreter
for tokenized BASIC commands . . . these tend to be very
slow with respect to what the chip can do with optimized
object code.
I saw some links for a basic compiler that targets
PIC devices.
http://www.sfcompiler.co.uk/swordfish/
I think this does a righteous compilation of
the BASIC source code for much more efficient
use of memory and greater speeds. I'm going
out of town tomorrow with Dr. Dee. She has
a conference to attend in Oklahoma City and
I'll be driving her and three of her students
to the conference. I'll have quite a bit of
free time while they take care of business.
I'll look a bit deeper into the Swordfish
product and . . . there are undoubtedly
others.
I can see the allure of the PICAXE product
for neophytes to get their juices flowing
for herding bytes around in silicon. It would
no doubt suffice for the wig-wag project
too. But a serious compiler would let you
run less expensive chips at their best
speeds. I think there'a a place for both
sets of tools.
Since both tools target PIC products, the
board layouts for things like the do-much
architecture will work across both tools.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for suggestions |
At 08:37 PM 4/10/2012, you wrote:
Well, the good news is I flew my Kitfox IV for the first time last Saturday.
Great! Send me pictures.
<snip>
Saturday I put 1 hour of air time on the plane doing a racetrack
pattern, conversing with the class D tower many times without a
hitch. Today I went up b-4 work talking to ground, the tower and then
took the active. I commenced another racetrack pattern and when I
went to contact tower to come down my radio went south (my 5 Amp fuse
blew which is on the essential buss).
What kind of radio?
What a way to find out if your transponder is working or not as I
squawked 7600 and came in via light gun.
It's always nice to have a plan-B,
or plan-C, or . . .
I have been running the system with both the main buss as well as the
essential buss turned on...why?...because I have an alternator whine
in the headset when only the main switch is on. I found if I turned
on the essential buss, the whine goes away. So to the questions:
1.Should I not use the essential circuit unless it is, uh,well,
essential to do so?
Actually, it's an ENDURANCE bus intended
to supply power to devices most useful for
en route operations to MAXIMIZE utilization
of a limited resource . . . battery energy.
Of course this feature is operative only with
the battery contactor OFF and the alternate feed
switch closed. There is no harm in conducing
normal operations with both switches closed
but the noise symptoms you cited are puzzling.
2. I have previously done a static (no engine running) Amp test
across the essential switch with all loads going and even keyed the
mic. The most I got out of the buss was 7A.
Very good . . . it won't go up much, if any,
with the engine running.
I ask because Bob has a note not to go over 4A but I relayed this
info here and some said it should not be an issue.
I'm pretty sure that the 4A reference was not
a limit. I think I've writted than an e-bus
load of 4A would probably be supported by an
18 a.h. battery for duration of fuel aboard.
But if your design goals call for less endurance
and you need more current, so be it. The point
is that you should PLAN for and then MAINTAIN
a known level of e-bus performance with the
alternator inoperative.
3. My thoughts today have drifted to the bridge rectifier and I
wonder if I might be better off using a good Schottky Diode
(ie...AEC9001-1) as I have noticed my voltage go up when I turn on
the E-buss (I know this is common from some previous posts) just
covering all bases.
There is an EXPECTED and NORMAL shift in
e-bus voltage when the alternate feed switch
is closed. This doesn't present a performance
problem. The shift can be minimized by use
of a low voltage drop device like the Schottky
diode but you won't be able to tell the difference
from the pilot's seat.
4. So, I would welcome any thoughts of what to look at or ideas.
We need to figure out where this noise is
coming from and how it's getting into your
electronics. You're sure it's coming from
the alternator? In other words, if you went
flying battery only, alternator off, would
the radio be quiet.
Also, have you figured out why the fuse
opened?
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Open source product development for OBAM |
aircraft
Bob,
Your assessment of the Picaxe is right on. They are great for
beginners/simple/low performance devices but their interpreter is at least a
couple of orders of magnitude slower than devices programmed w/ a compiler.
There is a myriad of experimental aviation applications where that level of
performance would be adequate.
Several years ago when I first started programming uControllers, I examined
PICAXE & Parallax Stamps. I settled on the Stamps (They also have built-in
interpreters). They are great for getting up and running simply & quickly,
which is key for the initial learning curve, but I quickly outgrew them.
As I'm sure you are aware the standard in BASIC programming w/ PICs is
microEngineering Labs PICBASIC PRO Compiler. It is a great product and
reasonably priced at $120-$270. I know several people who use & really like
it.
And, of course, Real Programmers program uCons in C ;)
-Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 19:37
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Open source product development for OBAM
aircraft
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 10:37 AM 4/10/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Looks good. Let's try to keep the option open to drop in the PICAXE 8 pin
>chip in place of the standard PIC chip.
I've been poking around the 'net trying to get a better
picture of what the PICAXE is all about. If I am reading
the postings right, PICAXE chips have an on-board interpreter
for tokenized BASIC commands . . . these tend to be very
slow with respect to what the chip can do with optimized
object code.
I saw some links for a basic compiler that targets
PIC devices.
http://www.sfcompiler.co.uk/swordfish/
I think this does a righteous compilation of
the BASIC source code for much more efficient
use of memory and greater speeds. I'm going
out of town tomorrow with Dr. Dee. She has
a conference to attend in Oklahoma City and
I'll be driving her and three of her students
to the conference. I'll have quite a bit of
free time while they take care of business.
I'll look a bit deeper into the Swordfish
product and . . . there are undoubtedly
others.
I can see the allure of the PICAXE product
for neophytes to get their juices flowing
for herding bytes around in silicon. It would
no doubt suffice for the wig-wag project
too. But a serious compiler would let you
run less expensive chips at their best
speeds. I think there'a a place for both
sets of tools.
Since both tools target PIC products, the
board layouts for things like the do-much
architecture will work across both tools.
Bob . . .
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