---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/11/12: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:07 AM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (Peter Mather) 2. 04:35 AM - Re: Looking for suggestions (Dan Billingsley) 3. 08:08 AM - Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (gregmchugh) 4. 07:36 PM - Re: Looking for suggestions (Dan Billingsley) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:07:18 AM PST US From: "Peter Mather" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft Bob Picaxe is slow compare to compiled code - of course. However, this is more than made up for by ease of coding in many circumstances. Facilities like ADC, I2C,Serial,PWM etc are all implemented as single basic commands. Running a 08M2 at 32Mhz gives plenty of speed for most applications. I also use Swordfish when speed is an issue but this only works for 18F series chips (smallest is 18pin). Sourceboost works for 12F and 16F as well. In both cases hardware handling is at a much lower level so you need to spend much much more time with the PIC datasheet. Picaxe has a great support forum www.picaxeforum.co.uk Connection of the picaxe to a PC with a serial port for programming requires two resistors - nothing else, so with an 08M2 you can be up and running with a bit of stripboard for less than $2. Try it - you'll like it! Best Regards Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: 11 April 2012 04:37 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft --> At 10:37 AM 4/10/2012, you wrote: >--> > >Bob, > >Looks good. Let's try to keep the option open to drop in the PICAXE 8 >pin chip in place of the standard PIC chip. I've been poking around the 'net trying to get a better picture of what the PICAXE is all about. If I am reading the postings right, PICAXE chips have an on-board interpreter for tokenized BASIC commands . . . these tend to be very slow with respect to what the chip can do with optimized object code. I saw some links for a basic compiler that targets PIC devices. http://www.sfcompiler.co.uk/swordfish/ I think this does a righteous compilation of the BASIC source code for much more efficient use of memory and greater speeds. I'm going out of town tomorrow with Dr. Dee. She has a conference to attend in Oklahoma City and I'll be driving her and three of her students to the conference. I'll have quite a bit of free time while they take care of business. I'll look a bit deeper into the Swordfish product and . . . there are undoubtedly others. I can see the allure of the PICAXE product for neophytes to get their juices flowing for herding bytes around in silicon. It would no doubt suffice for the wig-wag project too. But a serious compiler would let you run less expensive chips at their best speeds. I think there'a a place for both sets of tools. Since both tools target PIC products, the board layouts for things like the do-much architecture will work across both tools. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:56 AM PST US From: Dan Billingsley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for suggestions =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A> =0A>--> AeroElectric-L ist message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" =0A>=0A>At 08:37 PM 4/10/2012, you wrote:=0A>Well, the good news is I flew my Kitfox IV for the first time last Saturday.=0A>=0A>- Great! Send me pictures.=0A>Pictures attached...also this You Tube flic - http://www. youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=acVvjlwjy5g-=0A>=0A >=0A>Saturday I put 1 hour of air time on the plane doing a racetrack patte rn, conversing with the class D tower many times without a hitch. Today I w ent up b-4 work talking to ground, the tower and then took the active. I co mmenced another racetrack pattern and when I went to contact tower to come down my radio went south (my 5 Amp fuse blew which is on the essential buss ).=0A>=0A>- What kind of radio? Garmin SL-40=0A>=0A>What a way to find o ut if your transponder is working or not as I squawked 7600 and came in via light gun.=0A>=0A>- It's always nice to have a plan-B,=0A>- or plan- C, or . . . Yep, the plan B radio (HT) was-conveniently left sitting in t he hanger...first thing I threw into the plane when I got back.-=0A>=0A>I have been running the system with both the main buss as well as the essent ial buss turned on...why?...because I have an alternator whine in the heads et when only the main switch is on. I found if I turned on the essential bu ss, the whine goes away. So to the questions:=0A>=0A>1.Should I not use the essential circuit unless it is, uh,well, essential to do so?=0A>=0A>- A ctually, it's an ENDURANCE bus intended=0A>- to supply power to devices most useful for=0A>- en route operations to MAXIMIZE utilization=0A>- of a limited resource . . . battery energy.=0A>=0A>- Of course this fea ture is operative only with=0A>- the battery contactor OFF and the alter nate feed=0A>- switch closed. There is no harm in conducing=0A>- norm al operations with both switches closed=0A>- but the noise symptoms you cited are puzzling. --...To me as well=0A>=0A>2. I have previously done a static (no engine running) Amp test across the essential switch with all loads going and even keyed the mic. The most I got out of the buss was 7A. =0A>=0A>- Very good . . . it won't go up much, if any,=0A>- with the engine running.=0A>=0A>I ask because Bob has a note not to go over 4A but I relayed this info here and some said it should not be an issue.=0A>=0A>- I'm pretty sure that the 4A reference was not=0A>- a limit. I think I've writted than an e-bus=0A>- load of 4A would probably be supported by an =0A>- 18 a.h. battery for duration of fuel aboard.=0A>- But if your des ign goals call for less endurance=0A>- and you need more current, so be i t. The point=0A>- is that you should PLAN for and then MAINTAIN=0A>- a known level of e-bus performance with the=0A>- alternator inoperative. Un derstood...will chew on that a little more and try to justify switching ano ther load to the main bus.=0A>=0A>3. My thoughts today have drifted to the bridge rectifier and I wonder if I might be better off using a good Schottk y Diode (ie...AEC9001-1) as I have noticed my voltage go up when I turn on the E-buss (I know this is common from some previous posts) just covering a ll bases.=0A>=0A>- There is an EXPECTED and NORMAL shift in=0A>- e-bus voltage when the alternate feed switch=0A>- is closed. This doesn't prese nt a performance=0A>- problem. The shift can be minimized by use=0A>- o f a low voltage drop device like the Schottky=0A>- diode but you won't be able to tell the difference=0A>- from the pilot's seat.=0A>=0A>4. So, I would welcome any thoughts of what to look at or ideas.=0A>=0A>- We need to figure out where this noise is=0A>- coming from and how it's getting i nto your=0A>- electronics. You're sure it's coming from=0A>- the altern ator? The only reason I connect it with the alternator is due to the whine following the RPMs of the engine. It is usually only noticeable during idle or slow taxi. As the RPM's hit about 3000...the whine frequency increases to such a high pitch it is not really detected ( or noticeable to the ear) -=0A>=0A>=0A>In other words, if you went=0A>- flying battery only, alte rnator off, would=0A>- the radio be quiet. This sounds like something to try (think I will stay on the ground first though)=0A>=0A>- Also, have yo u figured out why the fuse=0A>- opened? I have not. I didn't have time to check all of the fuses but didn't notice anything else inop. Will take a c loser look today. As my radio (5A) fuse is the largest one on the E-Bus, I was thinking it odd it was the only one that went.-=0A>Thanks for the ide as...Will report more later today.=0A>Dan=0A>=0A>=0A>- Bob . . . =0A>=0A> ==0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft From: "gregmchugh" Bob and all, I agree with the plan to start with the PIC12F683 since you have those in stock and the board is designed. As you noted there is a drop in PICAXE replacement for those interested in that option. I am planning to code the wig-wag function using the standard Microchip development tools using C. I ordered the PICkit 1 Flash Starter Kit directly from Microchip on Monday for $36 plus shipping and it is scheduled to arrive today. See Part Number: DV164101 at http://www.microchip.com/. There are some newer development tools that can handle newer PIC devices but this is a good kit to get started with the PIC12F series I checked on the SWORDFISH Basic compiler and it appears to only support the 18F family, 12F does not seem to be supported. As noted by many there are lots of options for software development from assemply code (which is what real men use, higher order languages are for wimps), compiled C and BASIC, interpreted BASIC, and code from flowcharts. Lots of options are good, an advantage to using PIC, and I am sure there are more that have not been mentioned. Any single software development solution would not target a wide enough user base to make these types of modules viable for anything but limited use. I am very pleased to see that there are more responses coming in from software folks, I was afraid I was stuck in a sea of hardware folks. I won't start with the war stories on embedded software development. Here is a Dilbert that shows how the war story saga ends... Anyway, welcome software folks and let's here lot's of ideas on what you would like to see happen with this project... Greg McHugh Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370540#370540 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/28703strip_963.gif ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:55 PM PST US From: Dan Billingsley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for suggestions Got to the plane after work and first checked the other fuses on the E-Bus. ..they were all ok. They include the SL-40, transponder, Garmin 396, HZ sta b elect. trim, intercom and nav lights. As previously mentioned, the 5 A fu se for the radio was the only one that went when I keyed the mic.-=0AI re placed the fuse, pulled the plane out and taxied around getting radio check s from ground here and there and it worked fine.-=0ASo...for the whine in the radio, yes, -it is an alternator whine. While the engine was running I turned off the ALT and the noise went away. (I still find it strange tha t the whine goes away when I turn on the E-Switch). Again, the noise become s too high of a frequency to hear once the plane hits 3300 RPM. I took the plane back to the hanger and started following -my "fat" wire that goes t o the main bus. I found that it did parallel several small wires and came v ery close to the radio. Thought for sure I had it, so I re-routed the fat w ire away from most other wires. Started it up...no joy. Still had the whine . I didn't have time today but I was thinking about isolating the com anten na to see if I might be getting a ground loop. I have EVERYTHING in the pla ne going to a ground bus with the exception of the com antenna (located in the vertical stab). There I tied into the chrome alloy frame instead of run ning a ground wire all the way back to the front. Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it...any guestimates?=0AThanks, =0ADan=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A> From: "Robert L. Nu ckolls, III" =0A>To: aeroelectric-list@matro nics.com =0A>Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:50 PM=0A>Subject: Re: AeroElec tric-List: Looking for suggestions=0A> =0A>--> AeroElectric-List message po sted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" =0A>=0A>A t 08:37 PM 4/10/2012, you wrote:=0A>Well, the good news is I flew my Kitfox IV for the first time last Saturday.=0A>=0A>- Great! Send me pictures. =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Saturday I put 1 hour of air time on the plane doing a racetrack pattern, conversing with the class D tower many times without a hitch. Today I went up b-4 work talking to ground, the tower and then took the active. I commenced another racetrack pattern and when I went to conta ct tower to come down my radio went south (my 5 Amp fuse blew which is on t he essential buss).=0A>=0A>- What kind of radio?=0A>=0A>What a way to fi nd out if your transponder is working or not as I squawked 7600 and came in via light gun.=0A>=0A>- It's always nice to have a plan-B,=0A>- or p lan-C, or . . .=0A>=0A>I have been running the system with both the main bu ss as well as the essential buss turned on...why?...because I have an alter nator whine in the headset when only the main switch is on. I found if I tu rned on the essential buss, the whine goes away. So to the questions:=0A> =0A>1.Should I not use the essential circuit unless it is, uh,well, essenti al to do so?=0A>=0A>- Actually, it's an ENDURANCE bus intended=0A>- t o supply power to devices most useful for=0A>- en route operations to MA XIMIZE utilization=0A>- of a limited resource . . . battery energy.=0A> =0A>- Of course this feature is operative only with=0A>- the battery contactor OFF and the alternate feed=0A>- switch closed. There is no har m in conducing=0A>- normal operations with both switches closed=0A>- but the noise symptoms you cited are puzzling.=0A>=0A>2. I have previously done a static (no engine running) Amp test across the essential switch with all loads going and even keyed the mic. The most I got out of the buss was 7A.=0A>=0A>- Very good . . . it won't go up much, if any,=0A>- with the engine running.=0A>=0A>I ask because Bob has a note not to go over 4A b ut I relayed this info here and some said it should not be an issue.=0A>=0A >- I'm pretty sure that the 4A reference was not=0A>- a limit. I think I've writted than an e-bus=0A>- load of 4A would probably be supported by an=0A>- 18 a.h. battery for duration of fuel aboard.=0A>- But if your design goals call for less endurance=0A>- and you need more current, so b e it. The point=0A>- is that you should PLAN for and then MAINTAIN=0A>- a known level of e-bus performance with the=0A>- alternator inoperative. =0A>=0A>3. My thoughts today have drifted to the bridge rectifier and I won der if I might be better off using a good Schottky Diode (ie...AEC9001-1) a s I have noticed my voltage go up when I turn on the E-buss (I know this is common from some previous posts) just covering all bases.=0A>=0A>- There is an EXPECTED and NORMAL shift in=0A>- e-bus voltage when the alternate feed switch=0A>- is closed. This doesn't present a performance=0A>- pr oblem. The shift can be minimized by use=0A>- of a low voltage drop devic e like the Schottky=0A>- diode but you won't be able to tell the differen ce=0A>- from the pilot's seat.=0A>=0A>4. So, I would welcome any thoughts of what to look at or ideas.=0A>=0A>- We need to figure out where this n oise is=0A>- coming from and how it's getting into your=0A>- electronic s. You're sure it's coming from=0A>- the alternator? In other words, if y ou went=0A>- flying battery only, alternator off, would=0A>- the radio be quiet.=0A>=0A>- Also, have you figured out why the fuse=0A>- opened? =============0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.