AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Thu 04/12/12


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:01 AM - Re: Point me in the right direction (John MacCallum)
     2. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (rayj)
     4. 04:32 PM - Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (gregmchugh)
     5. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (Daniel Hooper)
     6. 06:08 PM - Re: Looking for suggestions (Richard Girard)
     7. 10:07 PM - Re: Looking for suggestions (Dan Billingsley)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:01:41 AM PST US
    From: "John MacCallum" <john.maccallum@bigpond.com>
    Subject: Point me in the right direction
    Yep sounds like the previously diagnosed resistance joint in a connector not letting Enough current flow for the strobe to charge and trigger. Cheers John MacCallum -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Wednesday, 11 April 2012 8:15 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Point me in the right direction --> <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> Dave, You are correct! I just don't know where the problem was. I replaced all the wires and connectors today and the strobes worked! Thanks to everybody for your consideration. Bill B -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Lloyd Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 1:57 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Point me in the right direction <skywagon@charter.net> Bill, That sounds like a marginal current flow path....meaning you can't pass enough reliable current to setup the strobe's needs to fire correctly. A continuity tester will sometimes lie to you as it needs very little current to show a good path. You could have a wire with all the strands broken except for one and the tester will indicate it is a good path. Look to for a poor/cold solder joint, wrong, corroded, contaminated or damaged pin in a connector and it could be that you have a wire break inside of the insulated covering. I have found this fault a time or two where a perfectly good wire is broken inside; maybe during manufacture or packaging mishandling, etc. Anyway, it sounds like a defective current path... Dave ___________________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 7:58 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Point me in the right direction > <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> > > My strobes will not fire when they are plugged into the plane electrical > system. They will fire if 12V from a power supply is hooked up to them. > > The schematic is basically: battery, to master solenoid, to fuse, to > switch, > to strobe power supply. > > Sometimes it will fire once and stop and sometimes it will fire 6-7 times > and stop. > > I have continuity with the ground pin on the Molex power supply connector > to > aircraft ground. > > With the master on, I have 12V at the fuse, I have 12V incoming to the > switch. > > With the master on and the strobe switch off, I have .65V after the > switch. > > With the strobe switch on I have 12V after the switch. > > With the strobe switch on I have sometimes 12V, sometimes 10V, and > sometimes > 8V at the power pin in the connector going to the strobe power supply. > > At first I thought the switch was bad then that I have a loose connection > somewhere after the switch. It doesn't seem reasonable that all this > could > have happened at the same time. The strobes were fine till I was not able > to visit the plane for about 6 months. The problem happened when I > returned > and tried to power them up. > > I suppose the Molex connector pins could be loose but that doesn't explain > the low voltage. > > I plan to move the wire from the strobe switch to the position light > switch > tomorrow to see if that helps. None of the other light switches have > voltage after them with the switch off. > > Any suggestions? > > Bill B > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:44:50 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Open source product development for OBAM
    aircraft At 10:07 AM 4/11/2012, you wrote: Bob and all, I am planning to code the wig-wag function using the standard Microchip development tools using C. I ordered the PICkit 1 Flash Starter Kit directly from Microchip on Monday for $36 plus shipping and it is scheduled to arrive today. See Part Number: DV164101 at http://www.microchip.com/. Okay. I I'll get the FAT fets laid onto the artwork, modify the do-lots schematic to agree, and get some boards ordered. I checked on the SWORDFISH Basic compiler and it appears to only support the 18F family, 12F does not seem to be supported. Hmmm . . . fooey. Keep us up to date on future recommendations/ discoveries. I used to write a lot of 6800/6502 assembler for embedded applications. I use Turbo Basic for test systems. I'd like to get salty with the RSC controllers but after one had the 150+ constellation of instructions in the legacy chips, it takes a whole new outlook on programming to get 'er done with less than 40! Any single software development solution would not target a wide enough user base to make these types of modules viable for anything but limited use. agreed I am very pleased to see that there are more responses coming in from software folks, I was afraid I was stuck in a sea of hardware folks. I won't start with the war stories on embedded software development. Here is a Dilbert that shows how the war story saga ends... Anyway, welcome software folks and let's here lot's of ideas on what you would like to see happen with this project... Had to put new tires on the car today so didn't get to 'play' . . . I'll have some time in the morning. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:23:55 PM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Open source product development for OBAM
    aircraft Greetings, Now that all the software folks are listening, I'll ask a question that I'm sure others are wondering. After a person finishes learning a particular kit, Parallax in my case, what's the next step up in capability and versatility. Is there something that is generic or does each chip manufacturer have a separate track for using their product. Not trying to start a conflict, just wondering what the world looks like out there. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 04/12/2012 05:43 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 10:07 AM 4/11/2012, you wrote: > > Bob and all, > > > I am planning to code the wig-wag function using the standard Microchip > development tools using C. I ordered the PICkit 1 Flash Starter Kit > directly from Microchip on Monday for $36 plus shipping and it is > scheduled to arrive today. See Part Number: DV164101 at > http://www.microchip.com/. > > > Okay. I I'll get the FAT fets laid onto the artwork, modify > the do-lots schematic to agree, and get some boards > ordered. > > > I checked on the SWORDFISH Basic compiler and it appears to only > support the 18F family, 12F does not seem to be supported. > > > Hmmm . . . fooey. Keep us up to date on future recommendations/ > discoveries. I used to write a lot of 6800/6502 assembler for > embedded applications. I use Turbo Basic for test systems. I'd > like to get salty with the RSC controllers but after one had > the 150+ constellation of instructions in the legacy chips, > it takes a whole new outlook on programming to get 'er done > with less than 40! > > Any single software development solution would not target a wide > enough user base to make these types of modules viable for anything > but limited use. > > > agreed > > I am very pleased to see that there are more responses coming in > from software folks, I was afraid I was stuck in a sea of hardware folks. > I won't start with the war stories on embedded software development. > Here is a Dilbert that shows how the war story saga ends... > > Anyway, welcome software folks and let's here lot's of ideas on > what you would like to see happen with this project... > > Had to put new tires on the car today so didn't get to > 'play' . . . I'll have some time in the morning. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 04:32:31 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft
    From: "gregmchugh" <gregmchugh@aol.com>
    Bob, As noted by Peter in an a previous note Sourceboost does provide C and BASIC compilers for PIC. I really have no prior experience with the PIC so I don't know the strengths and weaknesses of the various options. I just went with the Microchip solution since it gets you going for the least amount of money and is supported by Microchip. The free version of the compiler that comes with the Microchip IDE does not include all of the code optimizations, you have to pay to get the full featured version. Greg McHugh Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370626#370626


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:09:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Open source product development for OBAM
    aircraft
    From: Daniel Hooper <enginerdy@gmail.com>
    Straight C will get you the most mileage on the most platforms. Everyone has a C compiler, and for the most part they're all C99 (a standardized C) compatible. Once you're comfortable with C, moving to a new platform is just a matter of reading the reference manual to find where all the useful peripheral registers are.* That being said, it's nice to have at least one assembly language under your belt, because that will give you an idea of what your code is turning into when it compiles. When writing embedded C, it can be critical to understand what is going on under the hood, and Microchip with its 31 instructions and uncomplicated addressing modes is a great place to start. Again, Arduino is a good place to get running quickly for embedded C. It is relatively uncomplicated to get the IDE working and the programmer programming -- just getting the tools working can be a major sticking point on some platforms, PIC included. The key is not to get stuck there. It's great to get up and running with because it takes a lot of the difficulty out of getting set up, but it is near the same capability level as Parallax. The next step up is the ARM7 or higher, but the programmer and tools become much more of a setup hassle. Just remember that if you're having trouble, if your device refuses to program, or your programmer refuses to talk to your computer.... that kind of thing happens to everyone. You just have to keep prodding it. heh Check out some of the development kits at Sparkfun.com. They have great support, and the comments, forums, and IRC channel are much better informational quality than your average electronics site. This board (out of stock, currently) is probably going to be a big step-up performance wise from a Parallax processor: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10664 I haven't personally tried it, but it looks like a decent dev board to check out if you're looking for more juice. *Unless you're dealing with interrupts, which tend to be compiler-dependent. Hope that helps, Daniel On Apr 12, 2012, at 6:22 PM, rayj wrote: > > Greetings, > > Now that all the software folks are listening, I'll ask a question that I'm sure others are wondering. After a person finishes learning a particular kit, Parallax in my case, what's the next step up in capability and versatility. Is there something that is generic or does each chip manufacturer have a separate track for using their product. > > Not trying to start a conflict, just wondering what the world looks like out there. > > do not archive > > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:08:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Dan, Did you put the electrolytic capacitor on the DC line coming from the voltage regulator per Rotax Installation manual page 111 and Z-16? that should take care of alternator whine. If you did put it in, make sure it's the correct value and it's hooked up correctly. Be careful if you disconnect it, they hold a charge for a long time (months!). Rick Girard On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com>wrote: > Got to the plane after work and first checked the other fuses on the > E-Bus...they were all ok. They include the SL-40, transponder, Garmin 396, > HZ stab elect. trim, intercom and nav lights. As previously mentioned, the > 5 A fuse for the radio was the only one that went when I keyed the mic. > I replaced the fuse, pulled the plane out and taxied around getting radio > checks from ground here and there and it worked fine. > So...for the whine in the radio, yes, it is an alternator whine. While > the engine was running I turned off the ALT and the noise went away. (I > still find it strange that the whine goes away when I turn on the > E-Switch). Again, the noise becomes too high of a frequency to hear once > the plane hits 3300 RPM. I took the plane back to the hanger and started > following my "fat" wire that goes to the main bus. I found that it did > parallel several small wires and came very close to the radio. Thought for > sure I had it, so I re-routed the fat wire away from most other wires. > Started it up...no joy. Still had the whine. I didn't have time today but I > was thinking about isolating the com antenna to see if I might be getting a > ground loop. I have EVERYTHING in the plane going to a ground bus with the > exception of the com antenna (located in the vertical stab). There I tied > into the chrome alloy frame instead of running a ground wire all the way > back to the front. Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it...any > guestimates? > Thanks, > Dan > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:50 PM > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for suggestions > > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 08:37 PM 4/10/2012, you wrote: > Well, the good news is I flew my Kitfox IV for the first time last > Saturday. > > Great! Send me pictures. > > <snip> > > Saturday I put 1 hour of air time on the plane doing a racetrack pattern, > conversing with the class D tower many times without a hitch. Today I went > up b-4 work talking to ground, the tower and then took the active. I > commenced another racetrack pattern and when I went to contact tower to > come down my radio went south (my 5 Amp fuse blew which is on the essential > buss). > > What kind of radio? > > What a way to find out if your transponder is working or not as I squawked > 7600 and came in via light gun. > > It's always nice to have a plan-B, > or plan-C, or . . . > > I have been running the system with both the main buss as well as the > essential buss turned on...why?...because I have an alternator whine in the > headset when only the main switch is on. I found if I turned on the > essential buss, the whine goes away. So to the questions: > > 1.Should I not use the essential circuit unless it is, uh,well, essential > to do so? > > Actually, it's an ENDURANCE bus intended > to supply power to devices most useful for > en route operations to MAXIMIZE utilization > of a limited resource . . . battery energy. > > Of course this feature is operative only with > the battery contactor OFF and the alternate feed > switch closed. There is no harm in conducing > normal operations with both switches closed > but the noise symptoms you cited are puzzling. > > 2. I have previously done a static (no engine running) Amp test across the > essential switch with all loads going and even keyed the mic. The most I > got out of the buss was 7A. > > Very good . . . it won't go up much, if any, > with the engine running. > > I ask because Bob has a note not to go over 4A but I relayed this info > here and some said it should not be an issue. > > I'm pretty sure that the 4A reference was not > a limit. I think I've writted than an e-bus > load of 4A would probably be supported by an > 18 a.h. battery for duration of fuel aboard. > But if your design goals call for less endurance > and you need more current, so be it. The point > is that you should PLAN for and then MAINTAIN > a known level of e-bus performance with the > alternator inoperative. > > 3. My thoughts today have drifted to the bridge rectifier and I wonder if > I might be better off using a good Schottky Diode (ie...AEC9001-1) as I > have noticed my voltage go up when I turn on the E-buss (I know this is > common from some previous posts) just covering all bases. > > There is an EXPECTED and NORMAL shift in > e-bus voltage when the alternate feed switch > is closed. This doesn't present a performance > problem. The shift can be minimized by use > of a low voltage drop device like the Schottky > diode but you won't be able to tell the difference > from the pilot's seat. > > 4. So, I would welcome any thoughts of what to look at or ideas. > > We need to figure out where this noise is > coming from and how it's getting into your > electronics. You're sure it's coming from > the alternator? In other words, if you went > flying battery only, alternator off, would > the radio be quiet. > > Also, have you figured out why the fuse > ics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List" target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics; - p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:07:06 PM PST US
    From: Dan Billingsley <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
    Subject: Re: Looking for suggestions
    Bob, did you have any other thoughts on this? Could the antenna grounding b e connected to hearing the Alt and or single out the 5A fuse to the radio. I have been reading the Connection again and I feel my next step might be t o add a cap & or an inductor.=0A=0AGot to the plane after work and first ch ecked the other fuses on the E-Bus...they were all ok. They include the SL- 40, transponder, Garmin 396, HZ stab elect. trim, intercom and nav lights. As previously mentioned, the 5 A fuse for the radio was the only one that w ent when I keyed the mic.-=0AI replaced the fuse, pulled the plane out an d taxied around getting radio checks from ground here and there and it work ed fine.-=0ASo...for the whine in the radio, yes, -it is an alternator whine. While the engine was running I turned off the ALT and the noise went away. (I still find it strange that the whine goes away when I turn on the E-Switch). Again, the noise becomes too high of a frequency to hear once t he plane hits 3300 RPM. I took the plane back to the hanger and started fol lowing -my "fat" wire that goes to the main bus. I found that it did para llel several small wires and came very close to the radio. Thought for sure I had it, so I re-routed the fat wire away from most other wires. Started it up...no joy. Still had the whine. I didn't have time today but I was thi nking about isolating the com antenna to see if I might be getting a ground loop. I have EVERYTHING in the plane going to a ground bus with the except ion of the com antenna (located in the vertical stab). There I tied into th e chrome alloy frame instead of running a ground wire all the way back to t he front. Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it...any guestimates?=0AThanks, =0ADan=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A> From: "Robert L. Nu ckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0A>To: aeroelectric-list@matro nics.com =0A>Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 8:50 PM=0A>Subject: Re: AeroElec tric-List: Looking for suggestions=0A> =0A>--> AeroElectric-List message po sted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0A>=0A>A t 08:37 PM 4/10/2012, you wrote:=0A>Well, the good news is I flew my Kitfox IV for the first time last Saturday.=0A>=0A>- Great! Send me pictures. =0A>=0A><snip>=0A>=0A>Saturday I put 1 hour of air time on the plane doing a racetrack pattern, conversing with the class D tower many times without a hitch. Today I went up b-4 work talking to ground, the tower and then took the active. I commenced another racetrack pattern and when I went to conta ct tower to come down my radio went south (my 5 Amp fuse blew which is on t he essential buss).=0A>=0A>- What kind of radio?=0A>=0A>What a way to fi nd out if your transponder is working or not as I squawked 7600 and came in via light gun.=0A>=0A>- It's always nice to have a plan-B,=0A>- or p lan-C, or . . .=0A>=0A>I have been running the system with both the main bu ss as well as the essential buss turned on...why?...because I have an alter nator whine in the headset when only the main switch is on. I found if I tu rned on the essential buss, the whine goes away. So to the questions:=0A> =0A>1.Should I not use the essential circuit unless it is, uh,well, essenti al to do so?=0A>=0A>- Actually, it's an ENDURANCE bus intended=0A>- t o supply power to devices most useful for=0A>- en route operations to MA XIMIZE utilization=0A>- of a limited resource . . . battery energy.=0A> =0A>- Of course this feature is operative only with=0A>- the battery contactor OFF and the alternate feed=0A>- switch closed. There is no har m in conducing=0A>- normal operations with both switches closed=0A>- but the noise symptoms you cited are puzzling.=0A>=0A>2. I have previously done a static (no engine running) Amp test across the essential switch with all loads going and even keyed the mic. The most I got out of the buss was 7A.=0A>=0A>- Very good . . . it won't go up much, if any,=0A>- with the engine running.=0A>=0A>I ask because Bob has a note not to go over 4A b ut I relayed this info here and some said it should not be an issue.=0A>=0A >- I'm pretty sure that the 4A reference was not=0A>- a limit. I think I've writted than an e-bus=0A>- load of 4A would probably be supported by an=0A>- 18 a.h. battery for duration of fuel aboard.=0A>- But if your design goals call for less endurance=0A>- and you need more current, so b e it. The point=0A>- is that you should PLAN for and then MAINTAIN=0A>- a known level of e-bus performance with the=0A>- alternator inoperative. =0A>=0A>3. My thoughts today have drifted to the bridge rectifier and I won der if I might be better off using a good Schottky Diode (ie...AEC9001-1) a s I have noticed my voltage go up when I turn on the E-buss (I know this is common from some previous posts) just covering all bases.=0A>=0A>- There is an EXPECTED and NORMAL shift in=0A>- e-bus voltage when the alternate feed switch=0A>- is closed. This doesn't present a performance=0A>- pr oblem. The shift can be minimized by use=0A>- of a low voltage drop devic e like the Schottky=0A>- diode but you won't be able to tell the differen ce=0A>- from the pilot's seat.=0A>=0A>4. So, I would welcome any thoughts of what to look at or ideas.=0A>=0A>- We need to figure out where this n oise is=0A>- coming from and how it's getting into your=0A>- electronic s. You're sure it's coming from=0A>- the alternator? In other words, if y ou went=0A>- flying battery only, alternator off, would=0A>- the radio be quiet.=0A>=0A>- Also, have you figured out why the fuse=0A>- opened? =============0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>




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