---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/14/12: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:07 AM - Re: Looking for suggestions (user9253) 2. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Looking for suggestions (Dan Billingsley) 3. 11:52 AM - Re: Looking for suggestions (user9253) 4. 02:20 PM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (Richard E. Tasker) 5. 08:09 PM - Re: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft (David) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:36 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Looking for suggestions From: "user9253" > Don't short out the Diode because if it's a Alternator you will induce a dead short to ground. John MacCallum, Maybe we are talking about different diodes. I was referring to the E-Bus diode. Shorting across it (not to ground) will not hurt anything because current is limited by the E-Bus loads. If I read Dan's posts correctly, his plane (wired per Z-16) only has one dynamo, no alternator. Although an alternator is available as an option for the Rotax 912. But it would add expense, weight, and a bulge in the cowling. John, I like your suggestion of trying a filter. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370767#370767 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:41 AM PST US From: Dan Billingsley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Looking for suggestions John and Joe,-=0AAgain thank you for your assistance...Joe is correct in I am only operating off of the internal Rotax Alt/ Dynamo. Understanding th at the dynamo is only a single phase makes sense that the peak interference would be a bit higher. As previously indicated, I have been questioning th e diode between the main and e-bus as well. The thought to jumper (bypass) the diode is a good idea before I go buy either one of the schottkey diodes from Bob or try another Radio Shack bridge rectifier (which is currently i n place). Sticking a filter / choke is certainly an inexpensive effort also . I might even test my 22,000uf cap to see if it is bad or not as it should be giving some help coming off of the external regulator. Always a good ti me running down the gremlins.=0ADan=0A=0A>________________________________ =0A> From: user9253 =0A>To: aeroelectric-list@matron ics.com =0A>Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 3:05 AM=0A>Subject: AeroElectric -List: Re: Looking for suggestions=0A> =0A>--> AeroElectric-List message po sted by: "user9253" =0A>=0A>=0A>> Don't short out th e Diode because if it's a Alternator you will induce a dead short to ground .=0A>=0A>John MacCallum,=0A>Maybe we are talking about different diodes.- I was referring to the E-Bus diode.- Shorting across it (not to ground) will not hurt anything because current is limited by the E-Bus loads.=0A> - If I read Dan's posts correctly, his plane (wired per Z-16) only has on e dynamo, no alternator.- Although an alternator is available as an optio n for the Rotax 912.- But it would add expense, weight, and a bulge in th e cowling.=0A>- John, I like your suggestion of trying a filter.=0A>Joe =0A>=0A>--------=0A>Joe Gores=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online her e:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370767#370767=0A> =- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle ===========0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:53 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Looking for suggestions From: "user9253" Here is a simple and foolproof method of testing the Rotax 22,000F capacitor. Buy a miniature 12V lamp, Radio Shack 272-1141, or equivalent. Remove the capacitor from the circuit and charge it with 12vdc (observe polarity). Disconnect the charging power source. Connect the miniature lamp to the capacitor. The lamp should glow brightly at first, then slowly dim as the capacitor is discharged. The total time from when the lamp first illuminates until it stops glowing red should be about 15 seconds. At least my lamp did. Your parts may vary. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=370786#370786 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:20:25 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft Uh, no... REAL programmers program in machine code or at worst assembly... :-P do not archive Jeff Luckey wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Luckey" > > Bob, > > Your assessment of the Picaxe is right on. They are great for > beginners/simple/low performance devices but their interpreter is at least a > couple of orders of magnitude slower than devices programmed w/ a compiler. > > There is a myriad of experimental aviation applications where that level of > performance would be adequate. > > Several years ago when I first started programming uControllers, I examined > PICAXE& Parallax Stamps. I settled on the Stamps (They also have built-in > interpreters). They are great for getting up and running simply& quickly, > which is key for the initial learning curve, but I quickly outgrew them. > > As I'm sure you are aware the standard in BASIC programming w/ PICs is > microEngineering Labs PICBASIC PRO Compiler. It is a great product and > reasonably priced at $120-$270. I know several people who use& really like > it. > > And, of course, Real Programmers program uCons in C ;) > > -Jeff > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. > Nuckolls, III > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 19:37 > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Open source product development for OBAM > aircraft > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 10:37 AM 4/10/2012, you wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "gregmchugh" >> >> Bob, >> >> Looks good. Let's try to keep the option open to drop in the PICAXE 8 pin >> chip in place of the standard PIC chip. > I've been poking around the 'net trying to get a better > picture of what the PICAXE is all about. If I am reading > the postings right, PICAXE chips have an on-board interpreter > for tokenized BASIC commands . . . these tend to be very > slow with respect to what the chip can do with optimized > object code. > > I saw some links for a basic compiler that targets > PIC devices. > > http://www.sfcompiler.co.uk/swordfish/ > > I think this does a righteous compilation of > the BASIC source code for much more efficient > use of memory and greater speeds. I'm going > out of town tomorrow with Dr. Dee. She has > a conference to attend in Oklahoma City and > I'll be driving her and three of her students > to the conference. I'll have quite a bit of > free time while they take care of business. > I'll look a bit deeper into the Swordfish > product and . . . there are undoubtedly > others. > > I can see the allure of the PICAXE product > for neophytes to get their juices flowing > for herding bytes around in silicon. It would > no doubt suffice for the wig-wag project > too. But a serious compiler would let you > run less expensive chips at their best > speeds. I think there'a a place for both > sets of tools. > > Since both tools target PIC products, the > board layouts for things like the do-much > architecture will work across both tools. > > > Bob . . . > > -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Open source product development for OBAM aircraft From: David Arghhhh..... REAL programmers cannot program complex notions in machine (toggle switches!) or assembler. It is simply too hard. It is hard enough to do in third generation languages like 'C' or 'Fortran' or Basic or Pascal or ... Even as long ago as the 1980's, real world tests showed that compilers had gotten so good that executables were better by all metrics when written in a higher level language than in assembler. I have written in assembler and even (once) did the toggle thing on a PDP-11. Once the translators are written (compilers), let the computer do the donkey work that they're good at and let the people work at the conceptual levels, which they are good at. In some environments, the slow speed of interpreter execution is still good enough, as you've said. What the world still needs is a good fourth or fifth generation language but that is REALLY hard to build and build well. In the database world, we had a product that used relational calculus (high level programming) instead of relational algebra (clunky SQL). The product was called ZIM by Zanthe Information Systems out of Canada at the time. Extremely powerful language that even CEO's could use to query their information. Sadly, it never caught on in the marketplace. There are some current attempts at 4th and 5th G languages but they are still in their infancy after 40 years of trying. David M. On Sat 04/14/12 4:16 PM , "Richard E. Tasker" retasker@optonline.net sent: > er@optonline.net> > Uh, no... REAL programmers program in machine code or at worst assembly... > :-P > do not archive > > Jeff Luckey wrote: > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff > Luckey"JLuckey@p > acbell.net>> > > Bob, > > > > Your assessment of the Picaxe is right on. They > are great for> beginners/simple/low performance devices but their > interpreter is at least a> couple of orders of magnitude slower than devices > programmed w/ a compiler.> > > There is a myriad of experimental aviation > applications where that level of> performance would be adequate. > > > > Several years ago when I first started programming > uControllers, I examined> PICAXE& Parallax Stamps. I settled on the Stamps > (They also have built-in> interpreters). They are great for getting up and > running simply& quickly,> which is key for the initial learning curve, but I > quickly outgrew them.> > > As I'm sure you are aware the standard in BASIC > programming w/ PICs is> microEngineering Labs PICBASIC PRO Compiler. It is > a great product and> reasonably priced at $120-$270. I know several > people who use& really like> it. > > > > And, of course, Real Programmers program uCons in C > ;)> > > -Jeff > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> [owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf > Of Robert L.> Nuckolls, III > > Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 19:37 > > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Open source > product development for OBAM> aircraft > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert > L. Nuckolls, III"> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>> > > At 10:37 AM 4/10/2012, you wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > "gregmchugh"gregmchugh > @aol.com>>> > >> Bob, > >> > >> Looks good. Let's try to keep the option open to > drop in the PICAXE 8 pin>> chip in place of the standard PIC chip. > > I've been poking around the 'net trying to get > a better> picture of what the PICAXE is all about. If I > am reading> the postings right, PICAXE chips have an > on-board interpreter> for tokenized BASIC commands . . . these tend > to be very> slow with respect to what the chip can do with > optimized> object code. > > > > I saw some links for a basic compiler that > targets> PIC devices. > > > > > http://www.sfcompiler.co.uk/swordfish/> > > I think this does a righteous compilation > of> the BASIC source code for much more > efficient> use of memory and greater speeds. I'm > going> out of town tomorrow with Dr. Dee. She > has> a conference to attend in Oklahoma City > and> I'll be driving her and three of her > students> to the conference. I'll have quite a bit > of> free time while they take care of > business.> I'll look a bit deeper into the > Swordfish> product and . . . there are > undoubtedly> others. > > > > I can see the allure of the PICAXE > product> for neophytes to get their juices > flowing> for herding bytes around in silicon. It > would> no doubt suffice for the wig-wag > project> too. But a serious compiler would let > you> run less expensive chips at their > best> speeds. I think there'a a place for > both> sets of tools. > > > > Since both tools target PIC products, > the> board layouts for things like the > do-much> architecture will work across both > tools.> > > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Please Note: > No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, > however,that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily > inconvenienced.-- > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.