Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Shunt insulation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 09:14 AM - Vertical Power VP-X Pro for RV-8 Architecture Question (Karl Gashler)
3. 09:42 AM - Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro for RV-8 Architecture Question (MLWynn@aol.com)
4. 10:44 AM - Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro for RV-8 Architecture Question (John Grosse)
5. 01:53 PM - Re: Ignition Interference (messydeer)
6. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: Ignition Interference (Charlie England)
7. 07:48 PM - Re: Ignition Interference (messydeer)
8. 10:30 PM - Re: Ignition Interference (messydeer)
9. 11:09 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
10. 11:25 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt insulation |
At 11:33 AM 4/30/2012, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>They sure look like Weather Pack fuse holders maybe from
>
>http://www.whiteproducts.com/
>
>and the Blue Sea version is on Amazon for $9
>
>http://tinyurl.com/7tzcmc2
Yes. I've located a bulk distributor and
will set up and purchasing account with
them as soon as I can get to it. Thanks!
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Vertical Power VP-X Pro for RV-8 Architecture Question |
Hello everyone, long time listener, first time call :)
I am getting ready to design the electrical system for my RV-8. I will have a full-up
IFR Dynon EFIS system using the Vertical Power VP-X Pro with all other
typical full-electric airplane items such as autopilot, trim, LED nav/strobe/landing/taxi
lights, backup alternator (SD-8), etc. I bought the AeroElectric CD-ROM
and have been unable to find any electrical system architecture ideas, especially
anything that would apply to a VP-X Pro system. If you know where to
find a "boilerplate" system template that I could use as a starting point, or
any other advice, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much!
Karl
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro for RV-8 Architecture Question |
Hi Karl,
I have an RV 8, VPX-Pro. Start with the literature on the VP website.
Since you are all electrical, you definitely need back up power. You can use
the Z-13 architecture and substitute the VP-X for main bus. You can also
use Z-14, substituting the VP-X for the main bus and setting up a completely
separate secondary bus as back up or alternate power. Marc has pretty
clear instructions about how to set up the secondary alternator through the
VP-X. The only concern there is single point of failure (the VP-X).
The key concept from the Aeroelectric CD is understanding failure modes and
having a system that is failure tolerant. Failures always happen. You
just want to make sure that they don't interfere with the safe termination
of your flight. I have read the Aeroelectric manual, front to back, several
times. There is a huge amount of really useful information there about
how things work and how to think about how to set up your electrical system.
Once you have a clear understanding of the mission, the failure modes and
how your equipment functions, then you can select an architecture that
suits you.
Hope this helps.
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Finishing
San Ramon, CA
In a message dated 5/1/2012 9:23:46 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
gashf16@yahoo.com writes:
Hello everyone, long time listener, first time call :)
I am getting ready to design the electrical system for my RV-8. I will
have a full-up IFR Dynon EFIS system using the Vertical Power VP-X Pro with
all other typical full-electric airplane items such as autopilot, trim, LED
nav/strobe/landing/taxi lights, backup alternator (SD-8), etc. I bought the
AeroElectric CD-ROM and have been unable to find any electrical system
architecture ideas, especially anything that would apply to a VP-X Pro system.
If you know where to find a "boilerplate" system template that I could use
as a starting point, or any other advice, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks very much!
Karl
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vertical Power VP-X Pro for RV-8 Architecture |
Question
Go to the VP website and click on the button that says "Products - VP-X
Planner" http://planner.verticalpower.com/
That will take you to an interactive planner that will develop your
schematic and load analysis. It provides options for backup systems and
has a "Review" function that allows you to have Marc look over your plan
for problems. You can save your plan on line and modify it and print out
new wiring diagrams and schematics any time you want. It really is all
you need, and the manual explains everything you need. I have finished
my installation and have no hesitation to recommend it. It provides all
the flexibility I needed and backups that make me confident I could
easily deal with a failure of the "box" at any point in a flight.
Definitely not a "single point of failure."
John Grosse
Glasair IIS-RG 69BZ
Karl Gashler wrote:
> Hello everyone, long time listener, first time call :)
>
> I am getting ready to design the electrical system for my RV-8. I will
> have a full-up IFR Dynon EFIS system using the Vertical Power VP-X Pro
> with all other typical full-electric airplane items such as autopilot,
> trim, LED nav/strobe/landing/taxi lights, backup alternator (SD-8),
> etc. I bought the AeroElectric CD-ROM and have been unable to find any
> electrical system architecture ideas, especially anything that would
> apply to a VP-X Pro system. If you know where to find a "boilerplate"
> system template that I could use as a starting point, or any other
> advice, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much!
>
> Karl
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
Ignition noise problem updated
Problem
I hear that distinctive spark plug interference noise when I listen to the radio.
As expected, it varies with RPM. When I turn off the left magneto, 95% of the
noise goes away, leaving a tolerable feint interference noise from the right
magneto system. I disconnected the P-lead from it's fast on tab of the left
(noisy) magneto giving me a hot mag. This had no effect on the noise. After reconnecting
the left P lead, I disconnected the right P lead the same way, which
also had no effect. This tells me the P leads aren't causing the noise.
Distrubutor, Spark Plugs, and Spark Plug Wires
I considered connecting the high intensity wire from the left mag to the right
distributor, but it's an inch or so short. I run into the same problems with reach
when thinking about switching the 6 plug wires from the left distributor
with the 6 wires from the right. But this may yet be possible. It's that I sorta
cringe at having to pull all the wires from behind the tight space in back
of the engine. I'll take another look when I get back to the plane. I'm at the
airport at a wifi hot spot a half mile away from my hangar.
I could also check the resistance of the spark plug wires. These came with the
engine when I bought it at 50 hours. They are Champion 8.0mm(?) that I believe
are shielded. It looks like there are vast differences in resistance depending
on what type of wires I have. I'm not aware of the normal range for my wires,
but will check them anyway. The longer wires should at least have more resistance
than the shorter ones.
If I can get to the shields of my spark plug wires, I'll test them for continuity
with the inner conductor. I didn't think the shield is supposed to be connected
to the condutor. A normal shielded wire doesn't have the shield carrying
any current. It is grounded at one end and open at the other. But I don't see
how that can be arranged with a spark plug wire. Where is the ground connection
for this? In the spark plug? In the distributor cap?
I also talked with an A&P next door about my problem. He said my NGK automotive
spark plugs aren't high resistive, which means they're noisy. Suggested checking
the resistance and/or replacing with aviation spark plugs. Might this possibly
be a solution to my problem?
Antenna System
I've read the antenna system could be at fault if the noise increases when the
volume control is increased. I'm not sure if I understand that. Isn't the volume
control just effecting the gain of all signals, ignition noise or otherwise?
The radio has a shielded antenna cable from the belly mount to the back of the
radio. If it fits, I might be able to put a ferrite bead over the end of the antenna
cable. Or over the wires going from the radio to the headset jack on the
panel.
Any help would be appreciated!
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372231#372231
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
On 05/01/2012 03:50 PM, messydeer wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "messydeer"<messydeer@yahoo.com>
>
> Ignition noise problem updated
>
> Problem
>
> I hear that distinctive spark plug interference noise when I listen to the radio.
As expected, it varies with RPM. When I turn off the left magneto, 95% of
the noise goes away, leaving a tolerable feint interference noise from the right
magneto system. I disconnected the P-lead from it's fast on tab of the left
(noisy) magneto giving me a hot mag. This had no effect on the noise. After
reconnecting the left P lead, I disconnected the right P lead the same way, which
also had no effect. This tells me the P leads aren't causing the noise.
>
> Distrubutor, Spark Plugs, and Spark Plug Wires
>
> I considered connecting the high intensity wire from the left mag to the right
distributor, but it's an inch or so short. I run into the same problems with
reach when thinking about switching the 6 plug wires from the left distributor
with the 6 wires from the right. But this may yet be possible. It's that I sorta
cringe at having to pull all the wires from behind the tight space in back
of the engine. I'll take another look when I get back to the plane. I'm at the
airport at a wifi hot spot a half mile away from my hangar.
>
> I could also check the resistance of the spark plug wires. These came with the
engine when I bought it at 50 hours. They are Champion 8.0mm(?) that I believe
are shielded. It looks like there are vast differences in resistance depending
on what type of wires I have. I'm not aware of the normal range for my wires,
but will check them anyway. The longer wires should at least have more resistance
than the shorter ones.
>
> If I can get to the shields of my spark plug wires, I'll test them for continuity
with the inner conductor. I didn't think the shield is supposed to be connected
to the condutor. A normal shielded wire doesn't have the shield carrying
any current. It is grounded at one end and open at the other. But I don't see
how that can be arranged with a spark plug wire. Where is the ground connection
for this? In the spark plug? In the distributor cap?
>
> I also talked with an A&P next door about my problem. He said my NGK automotive
spark plugs aren't high resistive, which means they're noisy. Suggested checking
the resistance and/or replacing with aviation spark plugs. Might this possibly
be a solution to my problem?
>
> Antenna System
>
> I've read the antenna system could be at fault if the noise increases when the
volume control is increased. I'm not sure if I understand that. Isn't the volume
control just effecting the gain of all signals, ignition noise or otherwise?
>
> The radio has a shielded antenna cable from the belly mount to the back of the
radio. If it fits, I might be able to put a ferrite bead over the end of the
antenna cable. Or over the wires going from the radio to the headset jack on
the panel.
>
> Any help would be appreciated!
>
> --------
> Dan
>
Which motor are you using (I forgot, & it didn't make it into this post)?
You say 'magnetos', but you also say 'automotive spark plugs'. Are these
aircraft mags (just about all a/c mags except very old ones are made to
use shielded wires and shielded plugs)? If so, & you're running auto
plugs without some type of elaborate secondary shield around them, then
shielding on the wires, if it exists, probably isn't doing much.
Regular automotive wires don't normally have shields. You can buy
resistor auto plugs. You can also buy resistor wires for auto plugs
(normally, you'd use one or the other, but not both on the same system).
If you have non-resistor plugs, I'd check on whether you have resistor
type wires to go with them.
If you're running a/c mags (or an old style automotive distributor),
there's a capacitor (most call it a condenser) inside the mag next to
the points to suppress arcing of the contacts in the points. If the
condenser is bad, the points usually follow pretty quickly.
I think that the volume control issue is that if the noise is getting
into the input of the radio/audio system, then varying the volume will
vary the noise level along with the rest of your audio. If it's coming
in on the power supply, it might remain at the same level regardless of
volume control settings.
If you're getting minimal noise from one ignition system and lots of
noise from another, identical system, then that's a strong indicator
that the problem is related to the noise producer (ignition system), and
not to a shield/filter problem on the radio/audio system.
Charlie
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
Thanks, Charlie.
The mags are from Jabiru, but I'm not sure where they get them. I'l find out more
about the plug wires and exact type of NGK plugs these are.
Does the higher resistance of the resistive plugs make them produce less RFI? They
don't have shields, do they? And as for the plug wires, are they shielded,
resistive, or both?
I also have found some more info on Jabiru ignition noise suppression. I'll post
my understanding of it when I'm done later.
Thanks for sharing your insight.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372246#372246
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ignition Interference |
Sounds like most of the Jabiru ignition noise comes from the HT lead between the
coil and distrubutor. Folks have replaced that with a shielded one and also
put a couple ferrite bead clamps on each of them. I'll try just the beads for
now, I think.
I still don't know the specific type of plug wires, but found that my plugs are
non-resistive. I could upgrade to resistive, but will try just the beads first,
since we want to go up tomorrow. I have some spare 'bushing' type beads that
might slip over the cap. Otherwise I might get some from Radio Shack, I suppose
for now.
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372251#372251
Message 9
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| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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- Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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| Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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