Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:38 AM - Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Stuart Hutchison)
2. 07:13 AM - Re: amp meter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:19 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:59 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
5. 08:11 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Henador Titzoff)
6. 11:01 AM - Hour meter ground (Richard Girard)
7. 11:17 AM - Re: Hour meter ground (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 12:48 PM - Re: Hour meter ground (Richard Girard)
9. 01:59 PM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Bill Bradburry)
10. 03:32 PM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
11. 05:23 PM - Re: Hour meter ground (Bob McCallum)
12. 08:14 PM - Re: Hour meter ground (Richard Girard)
13. 09:15 PM - Re: Hour meter ground (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
G'day Bob,
Do you reckon aluminum bronze is suitable to be used in place of brass for
the main firewall ground ? It has plenty of copper in it, but are there any
known nasties when it's used adjoining stainless steel - I'd like to turn a
custom large-flanged firewall passthrough for the engine ground.
Kind regards, Stu
F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY>
http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY <about:www.teamrocketaircraft.com>
www.teamrocketaircraft.com
Message 2
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At 06:58 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>I am trying to put together a test rig to make sure my starting
>vibrator is properly set up after I replace the points and capacitor
>in both units (twin).
>
>My problem is finding something to indicate amps down in the 1 to 3
>amp range. I'm supposed to set the point preload tension such that
>the unit draws 2 amps at some set voltage.
>
>Everything I've looked at has way to big of a range to be useful..
>any ideas would be appreciated.
I feel your pain . . . and there's a hidden 'rat'
in this woodpile. The current you're attempting to
measure is not a steady, DC current level. It's
'chopped' up in little pieces by the antics of
the vibrator.
Digital ammeters are sampling devices that can
be very confused by a series of measurements that
do not agree closely with each other. What you're
looking for is an 'integrating' or 'averaging'
instrument that gives you some smoothed out value
over time.
Back in the days when shower-of-sparks was the
best we knew how to do, meters fully capable of
setting the system up were also the best we knew
how to do. Typical instruments were the Simpson
260, Tripplet 630 and similar ANALOG multimeters.
The mechanical inertia of the meter needle prevents
it from responding to the intermittent nature of
the current under study and readings were nicely
averaged.
So what you're looking for is an analog multimeter
with a current full scale reading as close as
practical to the currents you expect to measure.
A 5A scale would be nice but 10A or 12A is probably
going to be the best you can do in a multimeter.
The ideal instrument would be something like this
which you can get off eBay . . . if you have time
to wait.
1
You can get it here for under $10 delivered to your door
but it will take a couple weeks.
http://tinyurl.com/7d3rd25
If you can't find something locally that suited to your
task, I could provide you with one of these little fellers
shunted for say 3A full scale. No calibrated scale plate
but well suited to the task at hand.
[]
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
At 05:33 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>G'day Bob,
>
>Do you reckon aluminum bronze is suitable to be used in place of
>brass for the main firewall ground ? It has plenty of copper in it,
>but are there any known nasties when it's used adjoining stainless
>steel - I'd like to turn a custom large-flanged firewall
>passthrough for the engine ground.
>
Hmmmm . . . I have no reason to believe it's
any worse. Brass isn't the greatest of conductors
but the way we use it (large cross-sections and/or
short lengths) the electrical resistance doesn't
raise concerns. I don't know any specifics about its
reactivity with other metals but I think anything
against stainless is pretty low risk . . .
Perhaps others on the List have experience foundations
from which to advise you further . . .
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
Hi Stu
I compiled a number of links to galvanic and conductivity tables.:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=87240
Click on "Download document", it's a word document with a
number of links.
It kinda amazed me how poor a conductor brass and bronze is, but
aluminium is very good and for all practical purposes as good as
gold.
Stainless is a terrible conductor. Steel only slightly better. Guess
what, lead and tin are very poor conductors! Did you ever see high
amperage solder joints fail after time? It's because of the heating
and cooling of the joint and fatigue failure of the solder BTW you
can often rectify this from happening again by leaving a tail on the
component, taking a solid strand of copper wire and wrapping the tail
(and solder) and then soldering the both ends of this wire onto the board
on the lands or pad to give triple the path for electrons to flow.
When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and
stainless or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium and
stainless it is not a good choice. I forget if when I first made my
30,000,000 BTU Balloon Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the
pilot light inside stainless, or brass inside stainless. I think it was
aluminium? Anyway it plugged up with white corrosion a few times and I
lost the pilot light. After the second time I switched over to brass (of
vise versa, you will be able to tell from the chart) I never had a
problem again.
Good Luck.
Ron Parigoris
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
With copper and aluminum, it's bound to be extremely low resistance, but th
e aluminum will corrode on the surface to form alumina, which may interfere
with good connections. -Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelio
n Design to get it copper plated? -Or better yet, why not go with copper
bar? -It's relatively cheap and known good material. -Beats ripping out
something that didn't work that well.=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A____
____________________________=0A From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.b
ob@aeroelectric.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesd
ay, May 2, 2012 10:18 AM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze
- conductivity=0A =0A=0AAt 05:33 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:=0A=0AG'day Bob,=0A
>-=0A>Do you reckon aluminum bronze is=0Asuitable to be used in place of
brass for the main firewall ground=0A?- It has plenty of copper in it, bu
t are there any known nasties=0Awhen it's used adjoining stainless steel -
- I'd like to turn a=0Acustom large-flanged firewall passthrough for the
engine ground.=0A>-=0A-- Hmmmm . . . I have no reason to believe it's
=0A-- any worse. Brass isn't the greatest of conductors=0A-- but th
e way we use it (large cross-sections and/or=0A-- short lengths) the el
ectrical resistance doesn't=0A-- raise concerns. I don't know any speci
fics about its=0A-- reactivity with other metals but I think anything
=0A-- against stainless is pretty low risk . . . =0A=0A-- Perhaps o
thers on the List have experience foundations=0A-- from which to advise
========
Message 6
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Subject: | Hour meter ground |
I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA.
The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach
2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I
use the instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground.
Should I put a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a
shielded wire for the power connection?
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Hour meter ground |
At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered
>LSA. The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a
>Westach 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage
>regulator. Can I use the instrument panel ground bus or should I
>give it its own ground. Should I put a diode on the instrument panel
>ground? Should I use a shielded wire for the power connection?
If you run it directly off the two AC wires from
the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding
necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe
an AC connection?
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Hour meter ground |
Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground.
Rick
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**>
>
>
> At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>
>> I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA.
>> The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach
>> 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I
>> use the instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground.
>> Should I put a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a
>> shielded wire for the power connection?
>>
>
> If you run it directly off the two AC wires from
> the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding
> necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe
> an AC connection?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 9
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Subject: | Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
"When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and
stainless or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium and stainless
it is not a good choice. I forget if when I first made my 30,000,000 BTU
Balloon Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the pilot light inside
stainless, or brass inside stainless. I think it was aluminium? Anyway it
plugged up with white corrosion a few times and I lost the pilot light.
After the second time I switched over to brass (of vise versa, you will be
able to tell from the chart) I never had a problem again."
That's pretty funny, Ron! :>) Clear, but funny!
B2
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
Hi Stu
I compiled a number of links to galvanic and conductivity tables.:
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=87240
Click on "Download document", it's a word document with a number of links.
It kinda amazed me how poor a conductor brass and bronze is, but aluminium
is very good and for all practical purposes as good as gold.
Stainless is a terrible conductor. Steel only slightly better. Guess what,
lead and tin are very poor conductors! Did you ever see high amperage solder
joints fail after time? It's because of the heating and cooling of the joint
and fatigue failure of the solder BTW you can often rectify this from
happening again by leaving a tail on the component, taking a solid strand of
copper wire and wrapping the tail (and solder) and then soldering the both
ends of this wire onto the board on the lands or pad to give triple the path
for electrons to flow.
When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and stainless
or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium and stainless it is not
a good choice. I forget if when I first made my 30,000,000 BTU Balloon
Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the pilot light inside stainless,
or brass inside stainless. I think it was aluminium? Anyway it plugged up
with white corrosion a few times and I lost the pilot light. After the
second time I switched over to brass (of vise versa, you will be able to
tell from the chart) I never had a problem again.
Good Luck.
Ron Parigoris
Message 10
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Subject: | Aluminum bronze - conductivity |
Hi B2
So you think having a power failure on your home built Hot Air balloon is
funny? If you are not prepared they just like aeroplanes can in fact make
a perfect 1 point landing! In other words balloons can and do in fact
induce "P" factor", biological in nature (especially if
you are over 50). No problem, I have that aspect pretty well
"covered" if you know what I mean after you look at a few
pictures ;-) :
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=28355
Ron Parigoris
Serious, I have a fully redundant pilot light that you can easily fly off
of and deployable in seconds, and at least 3 other ignition sources that
are a little more time consuming to use, but you can fly off of them as
well. My two failures were pretty much non events.
When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and
> stainless or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium
and
> stainless
> it is not a good choice. I forget if when I first made my 30,000,000
BTU
> Balloon Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the pilot light
inside
> stainless, or brass inside stainless. I think it was aluminium?
Anyway it
> plugged up with white corrosion a few times and I lost the pilot
light.
> After the second time I switched over to brass (of vise versa, you
will be
> able to tell from the chart) I never had a problem again."
>
> That's pretty funny, Ron! :>) Clear, but funny!
>
> B2
Message 11
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Subject: | Hour meter ground |
Not exactly. Read the Note on the drawing you provided. They say IF one leg
of the AC is grounded then pin 5 should go to the grounded leg. It doesn't
say that it should be grounded, only that if it is then pin 5 is the
grounded pin.
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Girard
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hour meter ground
Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground.
Rick
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA.
The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach 2C10-2
that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I use the
instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground. Should I put
a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a shielded wire for the
power connection?
If you run it directly off the two AC wires from
the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding
necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe
an AC connection?
Bob . . .
===================================
-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===================================
http://forums.matronics.com
===================================
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Hour meter ground |
Thanks, Bob, I didn't catch the note.
Rick
On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Bob McCallum
<robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>wrote:
> ** ** **
>
> *Not exactly. Read the Note on the drawing you provided. They say IF one
> leg of the AC is grounded then pin 5 should go to the grounded leg. It
> doesn=92t say that it should be grounded, only that if it is then pin 5 i
s
> the grounded pin.*
>
> * *
>
> *Bob McC*
>
> * *
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard
> Girard
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:46 PM
> *To:* **aeroelectric-list@matronics.com**
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Hour meter ground****
>
> ** **
>
> Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground
.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Rick****
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:****
>
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>****
>
>
> At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:****
>
> I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA.
> The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach
> 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I
> use the instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground.
> Should I put a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a
> shielded wire for the power connection?****
>
> ** **
>
> If you run it directly off the two AC wires from
> the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding
> necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe
> an AC connection?
>
>
> Bob . . . ****
>
>
> ==========
> -List" target="_blank">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> ****
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> -- ****
>
> Zulu Delta****
>
> Mk IIIC****
>
> Thanks, Homer GBYM****
>
> ** **
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in ****Kansas City**** in order to
> be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Hour meter ground |
At 02:46 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:
>Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground.
>
>Rick
Hmmm . . . separate winding for the tachometer. Your
AC power to the rectifier/regulator cannot be grounded
on one side so that you can have full-wave rectification.
This tach coil is a very low power source. Do you have
an electronic tach reading this output too? In any case,
exactly where it grounds (if at all) is of little
consequence. These two systems are neither potential
antagonists nor victims. Does your tach wiring call out
grounding of one side of the signal wire?
Bob . . .
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