AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Wed 05/02/12


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:38 AM - Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Stuart Hutchison)
     2. 07:13 AM - Re: amp meter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 07:19 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 07:59 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
     5. 08:11 AM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Henador Titzoff)
     6. 11:01 AM - Hour meter ground (Richard Girard)
     7. 11:17 AM - Re: Hour meter ground (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 12:48 PM - Re: Hour meter ground (Richard Girard)
     9. 01:59 PM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (Bill Bradburry)
    10. 03:32 PM - Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
    11. 05:23 PM - Re: Hour meter ground (Bob McCallum)
    12. 08:14 PM - Re: Hour meter ground (Richard Girard)
    13. 09:15 PM - Re: Hour meter ground (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:38:31 AM PST US
    From: "Stuart Hutchison" <stuart@stuarthutchison.com.au>
    Subject: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
    G'day Bob, Do you reckon aluminum bronze is suitable to be used in place of brass for the main firewall ground ? It has plenty of copper in it, but are there any known nasties when it's used adjoining stainless steel - I'd like to turn a custom large-flanged firewall passthrough for the engine ground. Kind regards, Stu F1 Rocket VH-FLY <http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY> http://www.mykitlog.com/RockFLY <about:www.teamrocketaircraft.com> www.teamrocketaircraft.com


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:13:23 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: amp meter
    At 06:58 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote: >Bob, > >I am trying to put together a test rig to make sure my starting >vibrator is properly set up after I replace the points and capacitor >in both units (twin). > >My problem is finding something to indicate amps down in the 1 to 3 >amp range. I'm supposed to set the point preload tension such that >the unit draws 2 amps at some set voltage. > >Everything I've looked at has way to big of a range to be useful.. >any ideas would be appreciated. I feel your pain . . . and there's a hidden 'rat' in this woodpile. The current you're attempting to measure is not a steady, DC current level. It's 'chopped' up in little pieces by the antics of the vibrator. Digital ammeters are sampling devices that can be very confused by a series of measurements that do not agree closely with each other. What you're looking for is an 'integrating' or 'averaging' instrument that gives you some smoothed out value over time. Back in the days when shower-of-sparks was the best we knew how to do, meters fully capable of setting the system up were also the best we knew how to do. Typical instruments were the Simpson 260, Tripplet 630 and similar ANALOG multimeters. The mechanical inertia of the meter needle prevents it from responding to the intermittent nature of the current under study and readings were nicely averaged. So what you're looking for is an analog multimeter with a current full scale reading as close as practical to the currents you expect to measure. A 5A scale would be nice but 10A or 12A is probably going to be the best you can do in a multimeter. The ideal instrument would be something like this which you can get off eBay . . . if you have time to wait. 1 You can get it here for under $10 delivered to your door but it will take a couple weeks. http://tinyurl.com/7d3rd25 If you can't find something locally that suited to your task, I could provide you with one of these little fellers shunted for say 3A full scale. No calibrated scale plate but well suited to the task at hand. [] Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:19:47 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
    At 05:33 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote: >G'day Bob, > >Do you reckon aluminum bronze is suitable to be used in place of >brass for the main firewall ground ? It has plenty of copper in it, >but are there any known nasties when it's used adjoining stainless >steel - I'd like to turn a custom large-flanged firewall >passthrough for the engine ground. > Hmmmm . . . I have no reason to believe it's any worse. Brass isn't the greatest of conductors but the way we use it (large cross-sections and/or short lengths) the electrical resistance doesn't raise concerns. I don't know any specifics about its reactivity with other metals but I think anything against stainless is pretty low risk . . . Perhaps others on the List have experience foundations from which to advise you further . . . Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:59:31 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Hi Stu I compiled a number of links to galvanic and conductivity tables.: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=87240 Click on "Download document", it&#39;s a word document with a number of links. It kinda amazed me how poor a conductor brass and bronze is, but aluminium is very good and for all practical purposes as good as gold. Stainless is a terrible conductor. Steel only slightly better. Guess what, lead and tin are very poor conductors! Did you ever see high amperage solder joints fail after time? It&#39;s because of the heating and cooling of the joint and fatigue failure of the solder BTW you can often rectify this from happening again by leaving a tail on the component, taking a solid strand of copper wire and wrapping the tail (and solder) and then soldering the both ends of this wire onto the board on the lands or pad to give triple the path for electrons to flow. When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and stainless or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium and stainless it is not a good choice. I forget if when I first made my 30,000,000 BTU Balloon Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the pilot light inside stainless, or brass inside stainless. I think it was aluminium? Anyway it plugged up with white corrosion a few times and I lost the pilot light. After the second time I switched over to brass (of vise versa, you will be able to tell from the chart) I never had a problem again. Good Luck. Ron Parigoris


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:11:57 AM PST US
    From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
    With copper and aluminum, it's bound to be extremely low resistance, but th e aluminum will corrode on the surface to form alumina, which may interfere with good connections. -Why not send that puppy off to Eric at Perihelio n Design to get it copper plated? -Or better yet, why not go with copper bar? -It's relatively cheap and known good material. -Beats ripping out something that didn't work that well.=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A____ ____________________________=0A From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.b ob@aeroelectric.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Wednesd ay, May 2, 2012 10:18 AM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity=0A =0A=0AAt 05:33 AM 5/2/2012, you wrote:=0A=0AG'day Bob,=0A >-=0A>Do you reckon aluminum bronze is=0Asuitable to be used in place of brass for the main firewall ground=0A?- It has plenty of copper in it, bu t are there any known nasties=0Awhen it's used adjoining stainless steel - - I'd like to turn a=0Acustom large-flanged firewall passthrough for the engine ground.=0A>-=0A-- Hmmmm . . . I have no reason to believe it's =0A-- any worse. Brass isn't the greatest of conductors=0A-- but th e way we use it (large cross-sections and/or=0A-- short lengths) the el ectrical resistance doesn't=0A-- raise concerns. I don't know any speci fics about its=0A-- reactivity with other metals but I think anything =0A-- against stainless is pretty low risk . . . =0A=0A-- Perhaps o thers on the List have experience foundations=0A-- from which to advise ========


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:01:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Hour meter ground
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA. The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I use the instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground. Should I put a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a shielded wire for the power connection? Rick Girard -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 7


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    Time: 11:17:46 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Hour meter ground
    At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote: >I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered >LSA. The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a >Westach 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage >regulator. Can I use the instrument panel ground bus or should I >give it its own ground. Should I put a diode on the instrument panel >ground? Should I use a shielded wire for the power connection? If you run it directly off the two AC wires from the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe an AC connection? Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:48:05 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Hour meter ground
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground. Rick On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**> > > > At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote: > >> I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA. >> The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach >> 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I >> use the instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground. >> Should I put a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a >> shielded wire for the power connection? >> > > If you run it directly off the two AC wires from > the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding > necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe > an AC connection? > > > Bob . . . > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:59:36 PM PST US
    From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
    "When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and stainless or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium and stainless it is not a good choice. I forget if when I first made my 30,000,000 BTU Balloon Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the pilot light inside stainless, or brass inside stainless. I think it was aluminium? Anyway it plugged up with white corrosion a few times and I lost the pilot light. After the second time I switched over to brass (of vise versa, you will be able to tell from the chart) I never had a problem again." That's pretty funny, Ron! :>) Clear, but funny! B2 _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 10:58 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum bronze - conductivity Hi Stu I compiled a number of links to galvanic and conductivity tables.: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=87240 Click on "Download document", it's a word document with a number of links. It kinda amazed me how poor a conductor brass and bronze is, but aluminium is very good and for all practical purposes as good as gold. Stainless is a terrible conductor. Steel only slightly better. Guess what, lead and tin are very poor conductors! Did you ever see high amperage solder joints fail after time? It's because of the heating and cooling of the joint and fatigue failure of the solder BTW you can often rectify this from happening again by leaving a tail on the component, taking a solid strand of copper wire and wrapping the tail (and solder) and then soldering the both ends of this wire onto the board on the lands or pad to give triple the path for electrons to flow. When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and stainless or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium and stainless it is not a good choice. I forget if when I first made my 30,000,000 BTU Balloon Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the pilot light inside stainless, or brass inside stainless. I think it was aluminium? Anyway it plugged up with white corrosion a few times and I lost the pilot light. After the second time I switched over to brass (of vise versa, you will be able to tell from the chart) I never had a problem again. Good Luck. Ron Parigoris


    Message 10


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    Time: 03:32:21 PM PST US
    Subject: Aluminum bronze - conductivity
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Hi B2 So you think having a power failure on your home built Hot Air balloon is funny? If you are not prepared they just like aeroplanes can in fact make a perfect 1 point landing! In other words balloons can and do in fact induce "P" factor", biological in nature (especially if you are over 50). No problem, I have that aspect pretty well "covered" if you know what I mean after you look at a few pictures ;-) : http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=28355 Ron Parigoris Serious, I have a fully redundant pilot light that you can easily fly off of and deployable in seconds, and at least 3 other ignition sources that are a little more time consuming to use, but you can fly off of them as well. My two failures were pretty much non events. When you look at the galvanic tables, I forget if it was brass and > stainless or aluminium and stainless, I think it was aluminium and > stainless > it is not a good choice. I forget if when I first made my 30,000,000 BTU > Balloon Burner I used an aluminium restrictor for the pilot light inside > stainless, or brass inside stainless. I think it was aluminium? Anyway it > plugged up with white corrosion a few times and I lost the pilot light. > After the second time I switched over to brass (of vise versa, you will be > able to tell from the chart) I never had a problem again." > > That&#39;s pretty funny, Ron! :>) Clear, but funny! > > B2


    Message 11


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    Time: 05:23:47 PM PST US
    From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: Hour meter ground
    Not exactly. Read the Note on the drawing you provided. They say IF one leg of the AC is grounded then pin 5 should go to the grounded leg. It doesn't say that it should be grounded, only that if it is then pin 5 is the grounded pin. Bob McC _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:46 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hour meter ground Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground. Rick On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote: I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA. The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I use the instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground. Should I put a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a shielded wire for the power connection? If you run it directly off the two AC wires from the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe an AC connection? Bob . . . =================================== -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List =================================== http://forums.matronics.com =================================== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:14:57 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Hour meter ground
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Thanks, Bob, I didn't catch the note. Rick On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>wrote: > ** ** ** > > *Not exactly. Read the Note on the drawing you provided. They say IF one > leg of the AC is grounded then pin 5 should go to the grounded leg. It > doesn=92t say that it should be grounded, only that if it is then pin 5 i s > the grounded pin.* > > * * > > *Bob McC* > > * * > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard > Girard > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:46 PM > *To:* **aeroelectric-list@matronics.com** > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Hour meter ground**** > > ** ** > > Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground . > **** > > ** ** > > Rick**** > > On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:**** > > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>**** > > > At 12:56 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote:**** > > I have finished all the wiring of using Z-17 for a Rotax 582 powered LSA. > The last thing I have is to install is the hour meter. It's a Westach > 2C10-2 that I want to run off the AC side of the voltage regulator. Can I > use the instrument panel ground bus or should I give it its own ground. > Should I put a diode on the instrument panel ground? Should I use a > shielded wire for the power connection?**** > > ** ** > > If you run it directly off the two AC wires from > the PM alternator. No grounding necessary. No shielding > necessary. Don't the instructions for it describe > an AC connection? > > > Bob . . . **** > > > ========== > -List" target="_blank"> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > **** > > > **** > > ** ** > > -- **** > > Zulu Delta**** > > Mk IIIC**** > > Thanks, Homer GBYM**** > > ** ** > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in ****Kansas City**** in order to > be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:15:34 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Hour meter ground
    At 02:46 PM 5/2/2012, you wrote: >Bob, Yes, as you can see they show one side of the AC leg going to ground. > >Rick Hmmm . . . separate winding for the tachometer. Your AC power to the rectifier/regulator cannot be grounded on one side so that you can have full-wave rectification. This tach coil is a very low power source. Do you have an electronic tach reading this output too? In any case, exactly where it grounds (if at all) is of little consequence. These two systems are neither potential antagonists nor victims. Does your tach wiring call out grounding of one side of the signal wire? Bob . . .




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