---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/08/12: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:44 AM - Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS) 2. 06:57 AM - Bad Contactor Diode? (stearman456) 3. 10:09 AM - Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. (Jim Berry) 4. 10:35 AM - Re: Bad Contactor Diode? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 10:54 AM - Re: Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. (Jared Yates) 6. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 01:57 PM - Re: OS Wig-Wag Project (Fisher Paul A.) 8. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. (Henador Titzoff) 9. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. (rayj) 10. 04:01 PM - Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. (Bill Settle) 11. 05:12 PM - Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. (Charlie England) 12. 07:37 PM - Re: Bad Contactor Diode? (Daniel Jones) 13. 10:11 PM - Re: Bad Contactor Diode? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:44:24 AM PST US From: "ROGER & JEAN CURTIS" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. But some things to me are just mind boggling. http://www.wthr.com/video?clipId=7054149&topVideoCatNo=103348&autoSta rt=true Bill B Inappropriate, perhaps, but in another 4 years, if we keep on our present track of government corruption, electron herding will be the least of our problems. But this is not the place to discuss politics. Roger Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:53 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bad Contactor Diode? From: "stearman456" Recently a friend of mine purchased an RV-6A, and shortly after buying it he turned the master switch on one morning, there was a "poof", and the wire supplying the ground to the battery contactor burnt up. The airplane needed some major electrical work (even prior to this). It was wired basically according to Z-11 (I recognized the architecture straight away) but CRUDE! Cripes... Anyway, we changed out the contactor as it was pretty rough looking and I had a new one on the shelf from Spruce. But it didn't have a spark catching diode so we used the old diode that the previous owner had made up. This time when he powered it up (hanging onto the ground wire) he felt the wire getting hot immediately and killed the power before anything flamed. Changed the contactor completely and put a new one from B&C (with the supplied diode) in and the problem went away. So my question is, if the diode goes on the contactor, do you normally end up with a shorted out contactor? And if you do, is there a fix or a safety, like putting a fuseable link in the contactor ground wire? Thanks for all the help. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372625#372625 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:53 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. From: "Jim Berry" Did you really need to ask whether this is inappropriate here? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372637#372637 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:09 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bad Contactor Diode? At 08:56 AM 5/8/2012, you wrote: Recently a friend of mine purchased an RV-6A, and shortly after buying it he turned the master switch on one morning, there was a "poof", and the wire supplying the ground to the battery contactor burnt up. This is an exceedingly rare event. So rare that legacy design goals in TC aircraft do not incorporate any form of protection for this particular wire . . . The airplane needed some major electrical work (even prior to this). It was wired basically according to Z-11 (I recognized the architecture straight away) but CRUDE! Cripes... Anyway, we changed out the contactor as it was pretty rough looking and I had a new one on the shelf from Spruce. But it didn't have a spark catching diode so we used the old diode that the previous owner had made up. This time when he powered it up (hanging onto the ground wire) he felt the wire getting hot immediately and killed the power before anything flamed. Changed the contactor completely and put a new one from B&C (with the supplied diode) in and the problem went away. Helpful observations. These contactors don't generally short. Their most common failure mode is errosion of contacts followed in frequency by open coil. About 15 months ago we did a tear-down inspection on a new-contactor failure. The thread of this discussion can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/6mu7gba with pictures at: http://tinyurl.com/7petyz8 In this case, the contactor suffered from assembly error where the coil wires were not properly soldered. So my question is, if the diode goes on the contactor, do you normally end up with a shorted out contactor? Do you still have the old parts? Measure the resistance of the contactor coils. Odds are high that they're okay and will measure something on the order of 15 ohms. Also check the diode with an ohmmeter. I'm betting that you see equally LOW (short) resistance both ways through the diode. And if you do, is there a fix or a safety, like putting a fuseable link in the contactor ground wire? You can do this. A 5A in-line fuse right at the contactor would prevent a repeat . . . but I'd be interested in knowing what the part number and source was for the diode. It may be little comfort to say that this is a rare event . . . when an airplane right in front of you has suffered the failure. I can only offer that it's not even a low-order concern in TC or OBAM aircraft. At the same time, adding the protection is similarly low risk. Thanks for all the help. If an when you identify the shorted part, I'd like to know which part and perhaps have it for inspection. Thanks! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. From: Jared Yates I don't see where he did ask- he said in the subject line that he knew it was inappropriate, but he posted it anyway. That says a lot to me about his level of respect for we list members (or the lack thereof), and for the list itself. Sometimes you can just hand someone a paint brush and they'll gladly paint for you with their true colors. On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Jim Berry wrote: > > Did you really need to ask whether this is inappropriate here? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372637#372637 > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:52 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. At 12:50 PM 5/8/2012, you wrote: > >I don't see where he did ask- he said in the subject line that he knew >it was inappropriate, but he posted it anyway. That says a lot to me >about his level of respect for we list members (or the lack thereof), >and for the list itself. Sometimes you can just hand someone a paint >brush and they'll gladly paint for you with their true colors. Let's not project words or thoughts into this list member's head. It isn't like he was promoting a work-from-home scam or amazing cancer cure. I think the point has been made. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:33 PM PST US From: "Fisher Paul A." Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: OS Wig-Wag Project Bob, I'd like one of the boards. I'm not sure if I'll be herding bytes, or they will be herding me, but I'd like to try! Please let me know what I owe you for it. Greg - as long as I've got your code, I'll try to flash my own chip... but I'll contact you if I can't get it to work!! ;-) Thank you!! Paul A. Fisher 8428 114th Avenue West Taylor Ridge, Illinois 61284 -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, May 04, 2012 12:18 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OS Wig-Wag Project The boards are here and I've stuffed some of the parts. Thought I'd ordered the IRF6201 hex-fets but that slipped under the rug. Those are on order and should be here Monday. May have the development articles ready to mail then. How many folks are herding bytes for this board configuration and need hardware? I need mailing addresses. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:14:00 PM PST US From: Henador Titzoff Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. The strange thing about these off subject emails is that we can choose to l eave them alone, yet there is always someone who will not; thus, we get a r ash of responses that further eat up our precious time. I wouldn't be surpr ised if we get 20 more responses by the time this is all over with, all pre tty much saying the same thing.=0A=0AMr. Bradburro, if all you meant to do was alert us to the state of our declining country, mission accomplished. -If you meant to get attention and start mass hysteria, mission accomplis hed.=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Jared Yates =0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics .com =0ASent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 1:50 PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List : Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate..=0A =0A--> AeroElectr ic-List message posted by: Jared Yates =0A=0AI don't see where he did ask- he said in the subject line that he knew=0Ait was ina ppropriate, but he posted it anyway.- That says a lot to me=0Aabout his l evel of respect for we list members (or the lack thereof),=0Aand for the li st itself.- Sometimes you can just hand someone a paint=0Abrush and they' ll gladly paint for you with their true colors.=0A=0AOn Tue, May 8, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Jim Berry wrote:=0A> --> AeroElectric-List m essage posted by: "Jim Berry" =0A>=0A> Did you really n eed to ask whether this is inappropriate here?=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Read thi s topic online here:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p= ============== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:29 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. Perhaps this 20 will save us from 200, if we do what we can to discourage this activity. Insert camel's nose parable here. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 05/08/2012 04:12 PM, Henador Titzoff wrote: > The strange thing about these off subject emails is that we can choose > to leave them alone, yet there is always someone who will not; thus, we > get a rash of responses that further eat up our precious time. I > wouldn't be surprised if we get 20 more responses by the time this is > all over with, all pretty much saying the same thing. > > Mr. Bradburro, if all you meant to do was alert us to the state of our > declining country, mission accomplished. If you meant to get attention > and start mass hysteria, mission accomplished. > Henador Titzoff > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Jared Yates > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 8, 2012 1:50 PM > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: My apologies if you feel this is > inappropriate.. > > > > > I don't see where he did ask- he said in the subject line that he knew > it was inappropriate, but he posted it anyway. That says a lot to me > about his level of respect for we list members (or the lack thereof), > and for the list itself. Sometimes you can just hand someone a paint > brush and they'll gladly paint for you with their true colors. > > On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Jim Berry > wrote: > > > > > > Did you really need to ask whether this is inappropriate here? > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372637#372637 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectrice great content also > available via -Mat============== > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:37 PM PST US From: Bill Settle Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. I'm not offended at all. Thanks for sharing. do not archive ________________________________ From: Bill Bradburry Sent: Mon, May 7, 2012 11:44:14 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. But some things to me are just mind boggling. http://www.wthr.com/video?clipId=7054149&topVideoCatNo=103348&autoStart=true Bill B ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:43 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: My apologies if you feel this is inappropriate.. On 05/08/2012 07:42 AM, ROGER & JEAN CURTIS wrote: > But some things to me are just mind boggling. > > > http://www.wthr.com/video?clipId=7054149&topVideoCatNo=103348&autoStart=true > > Bill B > > Inappropriate, perhaps, but in another 4 > years, if we keep on our present track of government corruption, electron > herding will be the least of our problems. But this is not the place to > discuss politics. > > Roger > > > Do not archive Then why did you take your political shot & then expect others to not respond? I might not disagree with your sentiment, but I'd also ask, where were your complaints while we were being painted into this corner? Charlie ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:19 PM PST US From: Daniel Jones Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bad Contactor Diode? Hi Bob, I know I have the diode and the first replacement contactor, and I'm pretty sure the original contactor is still in the bottom of the garbage can in the shop. I'll box it all up and get it headed your way this week. I'd appreciate reading the autopsy report once you've had a look at it. Dan Jones warbirds@shaw.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 11:31:45 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bad Contactor Diode? At 08:56 AM 5/8/2012, you wrote: Recently a friend of mine purchased an RV-6A, and shortly after buying it he turned the master switch on one morning, there was a "poof", and the wire supplying the ground to the battery contactor burnt up. This is an exceedingly rare event. So rare that legacy design goals in TC aircraft do not incorporate any form of protection for this particular wire . . . The airplane needed some major electrical work (even prior to this). It was wired basically according to Z-11 (I recognized the architecture straight away) but CRUDE! Cripes... Anyway, we changed out the contactor as it was pretty rough looking and I had a new one on the shelf from Spruce. But it didn't have a spark catching diode so we used the old diode that the previous owner had made up. This time when he powered it up (hanging onto the ground wire) he felt the wire getting hot immediately and killed the power before anything flamed. Changed the contactor completely and put a new one from B&C (with the supplied diode) in and the problem went away. Helpful observations. These contactors don't generally short. Their most common failure mode is errosion of contacts followed in frequency by open coil. About 15 months ago we did a tear-down inspection on a new-contactor failure. The thread of this discussion can be found at: http://tinyurl.com/6mu7gba with pictures at: http://tinyurl.com/7petyz8 In this case, the contactor suffered from assembly error where the coil wires were not properly soldered. So my question is, if the diode goes on the contactor, do you normally end up with a shorted out contactor? Do you still have the old parts? Measure the resistance of the contactor coils. Odds are high that they're okay and will measure something on the order of 15 ohms. Also check the diode with an ohmmeter. I'm betting that you see equally LOW (short) resistance both ways through the diode. And if you do, is there a fix or a safety, like putting a fuseable link in the contactor ground wire? You can do this. A 5A in-line fuse right at the contactor would prevent a repeat . . . but I'd be interested in knowing what the part number and source was for the diode. It may be little comfort to say that this is a rare event . . . when an airplane right in front of you has suffered the failure. I can only offer that it's not even a low-order concern in TC or OBAM aircraft. At the same time, adding the protection is similarly low risk. Thanks for all the help. If an when you identify the shorted part, I'd like to know which part and perhaps have it for inspection. Thanks! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:58 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bad Contactor Diode? At 09:23 PM 5/8/2012, you wrote: > >Hi Bob, > >I know I have the diode and the first replacement contactor, and I'm >pretty sure the original contactor is still in the bottom of the >garbage can in the shop. I'll box it all up and get it headed your >way this week. I'd appreciate reading the autopsy report once >you've had a look at it. Very good. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.