Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:27 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 06/13/12 (Franz Fux)
2. 08:00 AM - Re: Inexpensive CAD Software (cdnch701builder)
3. 11:49 AM - Re: Pitot Tube Help (Eric M. Jones)
4. 12:06 PM - Re: SL-40 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Tube Help (GERRY VAN%20DYK)
6. 01:04 PM - Re: SL-40 (Dan Billingsley)
7. 01:15 PM - Re: SL-40 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 02:19 PM - Re: SL-40 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 02:19 PM - Re: SL-40 (Dan Billingsley)
10. 03:48 PM - G3X Garmin EFIS (fedico94@mchsi.com)
11. 08:59 PM - Re: Inexpensive CAD Software (Vern Little)
12. 10:06 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Tube Help (Jay Hyde)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 06/13/12 |
only intermittent access to e-mail until June 19th, in an urgent matter contact
info@lastfrontierheli.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Inexpensive CAD Software |
Try DeltaCad... it is simple and very easy to use! I have been using it for
years!
http://www.deltacad.com/ I have a number of CAD programs... including
TurboCad, DesignCad, etc
and DeltaCad I find is very easy and not complicated to use... Try the 30
day free demo...
that will give you a good idea at how simple to use! Also keep in mind this
is 2D... not 3D.
Ron
:--)> Several
:--)> months ago, I think I saw some traffic on this list about inexpensive
CAD software.
:--)>
:--)>
:--)> All I
:--)> really need is some simple line-drawing & dimensioning capabilities to
layout a
:--)> panel.
:--)>
:--)>
:--)> I
:--)> used to use TurboCAD (~5-7 years ago). What=92s the hot ticket today?
:--)>
:--)>
:--)> -Jeff
:--)>
:--)>
- The
:--)> AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
List utilities
Browse, Chat,
-
:--)> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-->
-
support!
:--)> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<html><head><meta name="Generator" content="PSI HTML/CSS Generator"/>
<style type="text/css"><!--
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LI{display:list-item;margin:0.00in;}
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</head><BODY ><div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;">Try DeltaCad... it is
simple and very easy to use!  I have been using it for years!  <a
href="http://www.deltacad.com/">http://www.deltacad.com/</a>  I have a
number of CAD programs... including TurboCad, DesignCad, etc and DeltaCad I
find is very easy and not complicated to use...  Try the 30 day free
demo... that will give you a good idea at how simple to use!  Also
keep in mind this is 2D... not 3D.</SPAN></div>
<div> </div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;">Ron<br /><br /></span></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> Several</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> months ago, I think I
saw some traffic on this list about inexpensive CAD
software. </SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> All I</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> really need is some
simple line-drawing & dimensioning capabilities to layout
a</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)>
panel. </SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> I</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> used to use TurboCAD
(~5-7 years ago).  What=92s the hot ticket today?</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> -Jeff</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)>
       - The</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> AeroElectric-List
Email Forum -</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> such as List
Chat,</SPAN></div>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matr
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)>
            -</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
-</SPAN></div>
--></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> <a
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)>
          -</SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> List Contribution Web
                   
--></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)> <a
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contr
ibution</a></SPAN></div>
<div><SPAN style="font-size:11pt;color:navy;">:--)>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot Tube Help |
I was always of the opinion that a heated pitot tube would be very useful for home-built
aircraft even it it wasn't certified for known-icing-conditions at 30,000
feet and jet plane speeds. Furthermore the reason pitot tubes are heated
with such high power is because they are made of material that conducts heat
rapidly. A strange design to be sure.
For those interested in my old Thermostatic Pitot Tube see:
http://www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/thermopitot.pdf
I test it outside my workshop every time an ice-storm dumps on New England...and
it performs flawlessly. Everything else is iced over while it is not. No flight
tests yet.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375666#375666
Message 4
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At 07:08 PM 6/13/2012, you wrote:
The 'low voltage=high current' thing works for AC induction motors,
but I wouldn't bet too heavily on it being the problem in a DC
circuit. If you look at the volts/ohms/amps formulas, you can see why.
Many modern radios have switchmode power supplies that deliver
a constant voltage to the radios internal workings over a wide
range of input voltages. For example, many radios today are
rated to run on 10 to 32 volts DC and will work in any airplane.
It stands to reason then that since the radio expects to see
"constant power availability" over that range of inputs, then
the power supply electronics current draw goes up as input voltage
goes down. A radio with would be expected to draw 3.2 x more current
at 10 volts than it does at 32 volts. Hence, lower bus voltage
translates directly into higher current draw. The radio performs
as advertised over the full range of inputs.
Unless the device is fitted with a constant power energy
system, then the current can generally be expected to go
down as supply voltage goes down . . . with a commensurate
drop in device performance.
One thing that *can* happen is the fuse will get hot if there's a
poor connection anywhere in the neighborhood: wire to terminal,
terminal to fuse, and back again on the other side of the fuse. Think
resistance heater. If it gets hot, it's weaker & vibration will
increase the odds of mechanical failure of the fuse link itself. Is
it a glass fuse, or one of the newer automotive blade type fuses?
(Blade fuses should be somewhat less susceptible to the high resistance issue.)
Can you monitor voltage at the power terminal of the radio, & watch
the voltage when you key the mic & actually transmit? If it drops
noticeably, you've got high resistance somewhere in the circuit, &
the fuse would be my 1st stop, especially if it's the old glass variety.
It is a widely circulated myth that some devices
should be expected to draw more current at lower supply
voltages . . . especially motors. Output torque is
proportional to current in the armature. If the motor
is powering something that demands more torque as
the speed drops, then yes, current will go up. This is
NOT because of any special characteristic of the motor;
rather a characteristic of the system the motor drives.
Also, increased resistance in the loop of any closed
system will drop the voltage available elsewhere in the
loop while increasing energy dissipated in the localized
loss of conduction. But thermally operated fuses and
breakers are oblivious to such events. They only know
how many electrons per second they're asked to carry
(amps) and will perform accordingly.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot Tube Help |
Here in Canada the equipment regs for IFR flight require the pitot be heated.
Is this not the case in the US?
Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:46:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Tube Help
I was always of the opinion that a heated pitot tube would be very useful for home-built
aircraft even it it wasn't certified for known-icing-conditions at 30,000
feet and jet plane speeds. Furthermore the reason pitot tubes are heated
with such high power is because they are made of material that conducts heat
rapidly. A strange design to be sure.
For those interested in my old Thermostatic Pitot Tube see:
http://www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/thermopitot.pdf
I test it outside my workshop every time an ice-storm dumps on New England...and
it performs flawlessly. Everything else is iced over while it is not. No flight
tests yet.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375666#375666
Message 6
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=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "Robert L. Nuckolls,
III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 12:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List:
III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0A=0AAt 07:08 PM 6/13/2012, you wrote:
=0AThe 'low voltage=high current' thing works for AC induction motors, bu
t I wouldn't bet too heavily on it being the problem in a DC circuit. If yo
u look at the volts/ohms/amps formulas, you can see why.=0A=0A- Many mod
ern radios have switchmode power supplies that deliver=0A- a constant vo
ltage to the radios internal workings over a wide=0A- range of input vol
tages. For example, many radios today are=0A- rated to run on 10 to 32 v
olts DC and will work in any airplane.=0A=0A- It stands to reason then t
hat since the radio expects to see=0A- "constant power availability" ove
r that range of inputs, then=0A- the power supply electronics current dr
aw goes up as input voltage=0A- goes down. A radio with would be expecte
d to draw 3.2 x more current=0A- at 10 volts than it does at 32 volts. H
ence, lower bus voltage=0A- translates directly into higher current draw
. The radio performs=0A- as advertised over the full range of inputs.So
with the E-Bus operating at somewhere around 1.5V lower than the main bus,
then there may be a possibility of radio transmission kicking the current h
igh enough to burn the fuse? Or do you think there may be more going on her
e (like some unwanted resistance)? I wasn't able to get to the field today
(so no testing yet) but there were a couple suggestions / thoughts...=0A(a)
change out the 5A fuse to 7.5A and call it good (still on the E-bus).=0A(b
) move the SL-40 power to the main bus with a switch to send it over to the
E-bus should it go south again.=0Aand another thought...do I remember corr
ectly (Z-16) that changing over to your schottkey diode may increase the av
ailable voltage on the E-bus?=0A=0ASo the question....WWBD -(what would b
ob do?)=0A- Also, increased resistance in the loop of any closed=0A- sy
stem will drop the voltage available elsewhere in the=0A- loop while incr
easing energy dissipated in the localized=0A- loss of conduction. But the
rmally operated fuses and=0A- breakers are oblivious to such events. They
only know=0A- how many electrons per second they're asked to carry=0A-
===============
Message 7
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At 09:22 PM 6/13/2012, you wrote:
>Thanks guys, That gives me info to work with. Will let you know what
>I find tomorrow.
>Dan
>
Dan, have you ever published a diagram of your architecture?
It's not clear to me where the 'problem fuse' is located
in your system.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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So with the E-Bus operating at somewhere around 1.5V lower than the
main bus, then there may be a possibility of radio transmission
kicking the current high enough to burn the fuse?
If the fuse is already being pushed to the edge . . . yes.
What engine are we talking about . . . and alternator?
If a Rotax, then the alternator is essentially non-op
on the ground so you've got battery voltage less diode
drop (1.5 is too much . . . it should be more like .7
for silicon junction and .5 for Schottky device). So
on the ground your system supply is basically a battery
(12.5 volts) + diode drop might take you down to 12.0
volts or less. This would cause the radio to draw 14/12
or 16% more current than in cruising flight . . . still
more if the battery is soggy. You should not have any
fuse loaded to more than 75% of rated value anywhere in
the system under any operating condition.
Or do you think there may be more going on here (like some unwanted
resistance)? I wasn't able to get to the field today (so no testing
yet) but there were a couple suggestions / thoughts...
If you have 'unwanted resistance' it's in the normal
feed path wiring that might add to total drop in that
path . . . but that shouldn't add more than 0.1 volt or
so on top of diode drop.
(a) change out the 5A fuse to 7.5A and call it good (still on the E-bus).
Do some measurements. KNOW why the fuse is popping . . .
(b) move the SL-40 power to the main bus with a switch to send it
over to the E-bus should it go south again.
and another thought...do I remember correctly (Z-16) that changing
over to your schottkey diode may increase the available voltage on the E-bus?
By a few tenths of a volt, yes. But if you're slicing your
energy pie up in slices that thin, there's no robustness
in your design. Check every fuse and make sure it's rated
for at least 1.5x max service draw. Recall that fuses protect
wires from HARD faults, no wire ever burned from a soft fault
(2-4x overload).
The 22AWG wire in this photo has been loaded to 20Amps for
over 10 minutes
http://tinyurl.com/6qr72fr
. . . so don't get wrapped around the 'ratings' axle
for fuses versus wire size. Nuisance trips are to be
designed out before you go flying.
So the question....WWBD (what would bob do?)
Get some measurements. Resize fuses as needed.
From the SL40 Installation Manual:
Emacs!
The 3.2A max at 13.75 could be 3.6A at 12 volts. The radio
has a 7A fast blow fuse installed inside. So where is
the 7.5A fuse? If it's on your battery bus to protect the
alternate feed path, then this fuse would could be loaded
to 3.6 amps PLUS what ever else is on the E-bus . . .
need to know what all the numbers are.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "Robert L. Nuckolls,
III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 1:14 PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List:
SL-40=0A =0A=0AAt 09:22 PM 6/13/2012, you wrote:=0A=0AThanks guys, That giv
es me info=0Ato work with. Will let you know what I find tomorrow.=0A>Dan
=0A>=0A- Dan, have you ever published a diagram of your architecture?=0A
- It's not clear to me where the 'problem fuse' is located=0A- in your
system.=0ABob, the problem fuse -is on the E-bus (Z-16) going to the SL-4
0 radio. I have a 5A fuse there as called out in the installation manual.
-I used the bridge rectifier from Radio Shack between the main and the E.
I can sketch out what loads are sitting where between the two busses if th
at would help. When I installed everything I was wanting on the E-bus, I en
ded up getting a total load of about 7A (measuring across the E switch with
it off). That was checked and included keying the radio. I know your book
says the E bus should carry a Max of 4 A continuous load, but when I mentio
ned -it here, I was told it should be a non-issue as the transmitting onl
y occurs in short bursts. So perhaps I SHOULD be using your diode instead o
f the rectifier? I need to do these and more Voltage & Amp tests to know wh
================
Message 10
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need advice
I want to test the hall effect sensor wire input to the G3X (Slick Mag sensor from
UMA). I have never gotten the rpm sensor to test as one would a cam shaft
hall effect sensor on a car with an analogue voltmeter. According to Klaus
Savier's instructions the input signal from his device will record on the G3X
His signal from the Plasma II puts out a square wave (rather than sine wave) at
10V amplitude and
0.3me ? width. 2 pulses per revolution so about so for 2k rpm need 4K pulses per
min.
Is there a reasonably priced pulse generator that will send out a signal like this
or is there place to get it locally like radio shack ?
The flap indicator does not work. it is dependent upon a slde potentiometer from
Ray Allen
Is there a way to build a device to send a signal down the input wire to the G3X
that varies voltage ? The G3X displays 0.3 V on the flap panel but no chage
as I run the flaps up and down. I assume the max voltage going in is 0.3V. I
thought of using a 9 V battery with a potentiometer and this may be useful for
the fuel senders as well.
I have yet to test the fuel tank senders to see if they work. Very disappointed
that this professionally assembled suite of Garmin equipment has some major
problems in receiving a signal.
Hard to tell if it is the senders or the LSU computer brain. So far the senders
all check out as working properly. My main problem is getting access to data
to safely test the input signal wires for the RPM sensor, but Klaus Savier has
some information on his Plasma II device for electronic signal to the input
of the RPM of the G3X. Prior to installation I use OHM meter to make sure the
supplied harneses had continuity and correct pin readout. So much for plug-n-play.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Inexpensive CAD Software |
This is as close to a Calma editor that I=99ve found. I like the
precision and ability to enter coordinate information directly. A
definite trip in the way-back machine! Once I got my mind back in the
object select:action:execute model, it all came back to me.
For those who don=99t know what a Calma is, it was one of the
first CAD tools for designing integrated circuits. It ran on a Data
General Nova computer and had custom color high resolution displays,
keyboards and tablets. Because of the low contrast of the displays, it
was customary to have no lights on and tents around the workstations to
eliminate glare. After 8 to 12 hours a day x several months on one of
these, one got a little pasty in complexion... kind of like working in
the hangar all day.
Nice tip.
Thx,
Vern
From: cdnch701builder
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Inexpensive CAD Software
Try DeltaCad... it is simple and very easy to use! I have been using it
for years! http://www.deltacad.com/ I have a number of CAD programs...
including TurboCad, DesignCad, etc and DeltaCad I find is very easy and
not complicated to use... Try the 30 day free demo... that will give
you a good idea at how simple to use! Also keep in mind this is 2D...
not 3D.
Ron
:--)> Several
:--)> months ago, I think I saw some traffic on this list about
inexpensive CAD software.
:--)>
:--)>
:--)> All I
:--)> really need is some simple line-drawing & dimensioning
capabilities to layout a
:--)> panel.
:--)>
:--)>
:--)> I
:--)> used to use TurboCAD (~5-7 years ago). What=C2=92s the hot ticket
today?
:--)>
:--)>
:--)> -Jeff
:--)>
:--)>
:--)> - The
:--)> AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
:--)> such as List Chat,
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.
matr
:--)> -
:--)> MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-->
:--)> http://forums.matronics.com
:--)> -
:--)> List Contribution Web -->
:--)> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
:--)>
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
06/14/12
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot Tube Help |
Looks great Eric! Very interesting page...
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: 14 June 2012 08:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Tube Help
--> <emjones@charter.net>
I was always of the opinion that a heated pitot tube would be very useful
for home-built aircraft even it it wasn't certified for
known-icing-conditions at 30,000 feet and jet plane speeds. Furthermore the
reason pitot tubes are heated with such high power is because they are made
of material that conducts heat rapidly. A strange design to be sure.
For those interested in my old Thermostatic Pitot Tube see:
http://www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/thermopitot.pdf
I test it outside my workshop every time an ice-storm dumps on New
England...and it performs flawlessly. Everything else is iced over while it
is not. No flight tests yet.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=375666#375666
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