Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: Viking Schematic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:24 AM - Re: RPM Sensor (Michael Welch)
3. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: RPM Sensor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:44 AM - Re: RPM Sensor (Michael Welch)
5. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: RPM Sensor (Michael Welch)
6. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: RPM Sensor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: RPM Sensor (Michael Welch)
8. 08:42 AM - Anybody remember when . . .? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 08:54 AM - Re: Anybody remember when . . .? (James Kilford)
10. 12:13 PM - Connecting type K thermocouple (Bill Bradburry)
11. 12:49 PM - Re: Connecting type K thermocouple (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 12:49 PM - Re: Anybody remember when . . .? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 02:00 PM - Re: Connecting type K thermocouple (Bill Bradburry)
14. 03:43 PM - Re: Viking Schematic (user9253)
15. 04:27 PM - Re: Connecting type K thermocouple (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 06:16 PM - Re: Re: Viking Schematic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Viking Schematic |
At 08:27 PM 6/21/2012, you wrote:
Bob,
Thanks for your words of wisdom so eloquently stated.
I think that the Viking powered aircraft can be wired, for the most
part, using one of your drawings.
The exact architecture is not so important as
the overall philosophy for the design and materials
being considered. The Viking instructions did not
speak eloquently to wire insulation but did caution
about leaving your cowl open with the engine exposed
to the sun! They also suggested the use of screw-terminal
barrier strips . . . never used in TC aircraft to my
knowledge and certainly not on my watch. On those
two points alone, I would be inclined to comb the document
for fundamental points of fact for performance (which
there are precious few) and then pitch the document.
This builder needs to FIND OUT how much current each
of the ECU power inputs need. Then size wires, breakers
and ENERGY SOURCES accordingly. This is not much different
than a Lightspeed dual ignition system. If he is
truly interested in simplicity, then wire per C-150;
no e-bus or avionics bus. Run all normal ops equipment
from a single bus including #1 ECU. Then add an aux
battery sized to meet THE BUILDER's alternator out
endurance requirements and drive the #2 ECU from that
battery through it's own switch . . . not unlike the Lightspeed
recommendations. Separate switch for each ECU.
There is one item unique to the Viking that is not addressed: ECU
SELECT. The Viking website recommends using one DPDT switch wired in
parallel to act as a SPDT switch. This switch will select either a
high or low voltage and send it to the dual ECUs to enable either
ECU1 or ECU2. My concern is that if this switch fails, the pilot
will not be able to switch to the backup ECU if needed. Or if the
switch fails open, who knows which ECU will be enabled, if any. It
is unknown what bad things might happen if both ECUs are enabled at
the same time, even for a second.
Then find this out. Anyone willing to launch into the blue
without answers to such questions is an accident waiting
to happen . . . either from ignorance of this specific
question or others like it. There is a reason that flight
test pilots are required to have engineering degrees. It
is insufficient to simply be able to fly the airplane.
The pilot needs to (1) have an intimate understanding
of the airplane and (2) a well founded confidence in those
who say, "trust me, this will work." If this guy is in
the "trust me" mode of receiving data, then you and everyone
contributing that data are assuming risk that goes beyond
simple advise. An RV built per Van's instructions is a very
low risk flight system even for the "trust-me-it-will-work"
customer. A warm fuzzy to the FAA's utopian quest for spending
how ever much money it takes to drive the accident rate to zero.
Failure mode effects analysis takes an intimate understanding
of how the device or system is built right down to the last
resistor. Baring that kind of knowledge, you 'partition off'
blocks of a system and treat them as unknowns to be accommodated
with failure tolerant design. This is reminiscent of the philosophy
I was applying some years back during the "great IR/ER alternator
debates". Conversations which were in fact not debates but
affirmations of faith buy individuals who had no intimate
knowledge of the systems and devices which they were
promoting as "trust me, this will work."
This airplane and it's prospective pilot would benefit
from a top-down review not only of the engine and it's
requirements/idiosyncrasies but the materials, power
sources, distribution, and in particular developing
the Plan-B, C and D that can be called upon with
CONFIDENCE to deal with specific failures. This data
needs to be combined with mission profiles . . . day
VFR only?
Is it safe to use one switch to choose between ECUs?
No airplane is safe . . . every airplane ever built will
terminate your existence in a heartbeat. Some more
easily than others. The BD-5 comes to mind. Each comes
with varying levels of risk that are dependent as much
upon pilot knowledge and skill as system reliability.
If not, is there a better way than to use 2 mechanically interlocked
switches? Perhaps a solid state circuit powered by the aircraft
supply so that it would not load down the ECU.
FIND OUT if the operating the two ECUs in tandem
presents a risk. FIND OUT also how much current these
systems demand in cruising flight. If dual ECU ops presents
risk and assuming that the builder is driven by the
ultimate in simplicity, then use two separate switches
with the #2 being annunciated with a really annoying
light and taking power from a separate battery. Might
even space the #2 switch off in it's own corner of the
panel.
The point being that if all this modern equipment
operates true to history in its automotive applications,
then it's unlikely that #2 ECU will ever be needed
in flight. The only time #2 is ever turned on is in
pre-flight, on the ground and in accordance with
check-list procedure. As you've already perceived,
this "keep me from throwing the wrong switch" interlock
philosophy may add more risk than simply having each
system stand alone.
The answers to the questions you've posed are stone
simple. They require no more information than any other
system integrator would DEMAND in the design of any
other machine that poses risks to people and property.
It matters not whether it's an airplane or a 10-story
tall construction crane.
The biggest question in my mind is to determine if
your friend is a cognizant beneficiary of your efforts
or whether you're simply putting band-aids onto a system
with more risk-issues (yet unidentified) than the choice
of an ECU select switches.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Mornin' Jim,
I think you've found the sensor we're looking for! By any chance,
do you or Bob know if the little
neodymium magnets I have on hand will work with this one? (they are
1/8" x 1/8" x 1/2" long). If
they're too small, I get can bigger ones.
When you say "5mm or less from a mild steel target", are you talking
about the magnets, or will
literally 'any' steel work? I envision whatever 'target' we end up with
will be 100% encapsulated
into the fiberglass disc. Making a bracket to have the sensor maintain
a <5mm distance is no
problem at all. I'd shoot for 2mm, and can't see why that would be an
easy task.
I still haven't understood what it is that we are calling targets.
Can these be Neodymium magnets?
Some guidance would be appreciated, please.
Aside from "the targets, the sensor, and the gauge itself.....we would
still need some sort of circuitry
to interrogate the pulses, right?
I'm looking forward to seeing your display(s), and your 'other
suggestion. Thanks,
Mike Welch
On Jun 22, 2012, at 7:11 AM, Jim Hausch wrote:
> I've found some proximity sensors:
>
> BI 5-P18-AP6/S139-S90
> http://www.turck-usa.com/illustrations/M1660350%20(sheet_1).pdf
>
> This example only has a 2 meter cable, but longer are available
> Special housing with PUR cable.
> oil and seawater resistant
> to 500 meters (1641 ft)and 725 PSI.
>
> I have displays similar to what you posted. I have another
suggestion, too.
>
> I will put some stuff together for you this weekend. That sensor
needs to be 5mm or less from a mild-steel target. Less to SS. Think
about how you can give that sensor 4 targets per rev and I think you
will be happy with the system performance.
>
> Regards,
> Jim Hausch
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 5:48 PM, Jim Hausch
<jim.hausch@powermation.com> wrote:
> OK, thanks. I can refer to this in my files now as the Dsog
project... perfect.
>
> I understand the response re hyd flow monitoring. Thanks for the
info. I will continue to look for the 12 or 24Vdc submersible solution.
>
> Regards,
> Jim Hausch
> Power/mation
> Cell - 414-254-1857
> Office - 262-408-6146
>
> Interesting Information and Random Updates
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Michael Welch
<mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> A) I don't think the hydraulic flow, or even the pressure will be
very useful, especially due to the varying loads in use. I think what
it is infinitely more useful is the implement's rotational
> speed, which can be tapped off of a drive axle or motor shaft.
> 2) Yes, I have a name for my invention. It's called the Dsog. See
my attached company logo;
>
> Mike Welch
>
> <Test3.gif>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jun 20, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Jim Hausch wrote:
>
>> Great. Thanks. I am no hydraulics expert, but would monitoring flow
rate on the hyd lines feeding the motors be an accurate way to monitor
speed, or do these motors have built-in bypasses to protect from
overload? I only mention this because it would keep the speed sensors
above the surface....
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jim Hausch
>> Power/mation
>> Cell - 414-254-1857
>> Office - 262-408-6146
>>
>> Interesting Information and Random Updates
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Michael Welch
<mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Jim,
>>
>> The 1 1/2" shaft is for the 'real' model. The scale model is not
intended to be that detailed such
>> that it would would require monitors.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 20, 2012, at 3:32 PM, Jim Hausch wrote:
>>
>>> The 1.5" shaft diameter spec from a previous email - is that for
both the 1/4 scale model and the actual unit? If not, what is the shaft
diameter you need today?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jim Hausch
>>> Power/mation
>>> Cell - 414-254-1857
>>> Office - 262-408-6146
>>>
>>> Interesting Information and Random Updates
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Michael Welch
<mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Jim, Bob, list members,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your responses. My initial request was brief, in an
attempt to pay respect to the Matronics rules, since obviously my needs
are not aviation related. They are, however, electronic in nature, and
I, for one, always enjoy every electronic post, aviation or not, because
I always enjoy learning from the best!! Since Bob suggests bringing the
subject onto the this list, I hope those that read this topic are able
to glean some electronic knowledge and, or share their skills.
>>>
>>> So, with an understanding this topic is not aero-electric, but yet
it certainly is electronic, so it may help educate some of us electronic
novices, here goes;
>>>
>>> My recently submitted, patent-pending invention (UNDERWATER GOLD
PROCESSOR) is essentially an underwater, remotely powered Bobcat style,
ocean floor, skidloader/material sifter. ALL functions are
hydraulically powered, and the means (pump, controls, etc) remain
onboard the (floating) dredge, and at the control of the operator.
Hydraulic lines, air lines, electric cords, etc, etc, combine in
conjunction with the suction hose, that goes down to the machine, at an
approx. depth between 10 to 30 feet. (although 100' depth may be a
consideration)
>>>
>>> My invention is essentially a "tractor" (sort of), that clears big
boulders out of the way, scoops up tremendous amounts of sea floor dirt,
classifies the dirt to discard the rocks and unwanted gravel, and sends
the remaining gold ore concentrate up to the dredge in phenomenal
amounts. The dredge then processes this gold ore in traditional
sluicebox methods. The present method, known as 'state of the art', in
use today is a diver walking along the seafloor with a suction hose.
This diver and the dredge operator frequently pull in 1/2 oz/day. My
machine replaces this diver, and is anticipated to produce at least 20
to 50 times (or MUCH more) his daily gold tally.
>>>
>>> Initial calculations, with my machine progressing forward at an
easy, and likely "1/2 mph", suggest processing 4 cubic yards of sea
floor dirt PER MINUTE. Since much of the coast off
>>> of Nome has gold assayed at .01 oz AU per cu/yd, that equates close
to 4/100 oz./minute ($72/min), or, on a productive day, 10 hrs X 60
minutes/hr X .04 oz/min = 24 oz AU per day. These calculations
are for the "personal" size machine. The commercial model is off the
charts! (30 cu/yds per minute {that's an ounce every three minutes).
As with many things, the bigger the machine, the better it operates.
>>>
>>> My invention does not require a human operator controlling it
"hands-on" underwater, but rather, the dredge operator still need to be
able to monitor the various implement functions (rotating shaft's
speed)from the boat. Of all the various rotating parts, two are of
primary importance. The first one is sort of a rototiller style rock
remover, and the second function is the revolving scoops conveyor.
Although underwater video cameras are expected to assist the operator in
monitoring the machine's efficiency, through practice and experience, he
would be greatly augmented by knowing how fast the two primary
implements are turning. "Extremely precise" readings are not likely
needed. For instance, once the operator gets used to working the
machine, he may find that 215 rpm seems to work well with most seafloor
regions. So, when he sets himself up for the beginning of his daily
run, he can set the speed of that at a "proven-to-be-successful" 215
rpms, or something close to that. Obviously, rpms in the range of
200-230 are probably 'close enough' to watch the action, and he can make
adjustments as needed.
>>>
>>> I am convinced my invention can, and will, make some people very
wealthy. There are unique features about it that I have not discussed
so far.
>>>
>>> My intention is to either license it to a fabrication plant, or
maybe even begin making them myself, (if I could find an investor). I
just put together a website this past weekend, and is a "work-in
progress". (I don't have anything on it yet) However, I am building a
1/4 scale, fully functioning model, too, and am about 60% finished with
the model. I will video the model in action, and post it on my website
as soon as I can. My wife just conceded she "may" actually agree to me
building the very first one, and go use it! If I were to build one, I'd
need those rpm circuits figured out, for sure.
>>> If I were ever to fabricate them on a commercial level, the
monitoring circuits would need to be in a "plug & play" package.
>>>
>>> Shaft rpm's would be needed for 5 separate functions. Underwater
salt environment. 20' average depth. rpm ranges around 0-
>>> 300. I'd prefer digital accuracy.
>>>
>>> Thank to all for their tolerance to this non-aviation subject.
Please feel free to contribute any suggestions regarding the rpm
circuitry. However, if anyone is interested in further discussions
regarding my invention itself, please contact me OFF-LIST, as
appropriate.
>>>
>>> Mike Welch
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 20, 2012, at 8:52 AM, Jim Hausch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sounds like a neat project. My last "out of the ordinary" project
was DARPA funded. It was to test the idea for an automated winch to
deploy a soldier on a parachute from an autonomous jetski. The idea is
that the jetski would pull him to altitude and then he would disconnect
and glide to shore or "wherever". I worked on the winch controls. It
is certainly more fun than the usual factory applications I work on.
>>>>
>>>> Your application just might beat that one out for "cool factor with
the ability to actually make some money!" :)
>>>>
>>>> At what depth do the sensors need to survive?
>>>>
>>>> It sounds like the displays are to help the operator of the tractor
know what his manipulation of the proportional valves are doing. If you
think he might ever actuate the motors to turn very slowly, we might
want to display RPM with at least one digit to the right of the decimal
point and want more "data" than one pulse per rev.
>>>>
>>>> Are there any other system readouts that would be of value to the
operator (pressures, levels, depths, etc)? I ask because if you get up
to more than 4 individual meters, looking at a single larger
programmable display starts to make more sense.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know the answer to at least the depth question and I will
work first on the simple RPM display.
>>>>
>>>> Jim Hausch
>>>> Power/mation
>>>> Cell - 414-254-1857
>>>> Office - 262-408-6146
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 20, 2012 8:25 AM, "Michael Welch" <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>>>> Hi Jim,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your response and interest in my post regarding an
rpm meter.
>>>> This reply is also off Matronics, mostly because my need is
non-aero, but it certainly is
>>>> electric.
>>>> So, unless we get sort of an invite from Bob, I think it is
courtesy to stay off-list. So, I thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Now, to answer your questions, but first, some background info on
why I need the rpm circuits;
>>>> For the last 3+ months, I have been working on an invention. It
is in the field of gold prospecting,
>>>> and very specifically, underwater offshore gold prospecting. About
a month ago, I submitted my
>>>> completed application for a "non-provisional patent" to the US
Patent & Trademark Office (USPTO).
>>>>
>>>> My invention replaces the typical underwater diver (lugging an 8"
suction hose). It is essentially an
>>>> underwater remotely operated tractor. My calculations predict
between 20 to 50 times
>>>> his productivity. (picture the comparison between a guy digging a
ditch with a shovel, and an excavator)
>>>> At any rate, my invention relies on hydraulic motors to perform
its sundry motions. I don't have any
>>>> detailed designs of the particular shafts, but if I knew what the
rpm circuit(s) would look like, I would
>>>> make accommodations as necessary. In all likeliness, the shafts(s)
will be simple rotating axles,
>>>> where an attachment (magnet?) can be mounted to give a rotational
pulse. The environment is
>>>> underwater, (sea water).
>>>>
>>>> See below for additional answers adjacent to the question.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your help,
>>>> Mike Welch
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 20, 2012, at 5:52 AM, Jim Hausch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a lurker on Aero-Electric. I noticed your post (and Bob's
reply) looking for some RPM meters. I work in factory automation, so
this is right up our alley. I am sending this from my work email so if
we start a conversation I have the record "where i need it".
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob (CC'd on this message),
>>>>>
>>>>> If you would prefer I recap this on the Matronics list, please let
me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>
>>>>> What is on the shaft that the sensor will sense? Is there a key,
flat, or other feature we can sense with a simple inductive prox? If
you have a drawing or picture of the shaft, please send it along.
(assume a simple 1 1/2" dia., full-length woodruff keyed, rotating steel
shaft, in an underwater environment)
>>>>> How many shafts need to be measured simultaneously? (two
separate,independent circuits, at least, with two displays. However,
depending on the design, I could use as many as 6)
>>>>> How large would you like the display to be? (if gauges are
individual, 2" or so, each. If multiple displays per single screen,
maybe 1/4" to 3/8" high numbers)
>>>>> What sort of environment does the system need to live in?
(sensors live in salt water, displays live in dry, above water, console)
>>>>> What is the available power (115 from a wall outlet, or is there
an existing panel with lower voltage AC or even a 24Vdc supply in it)?
(the dredge (support boat) will have any form of necessary power. 115
ac will be available, BUT, due to the water hazards, I would greatly
prefer to stay with something no more dangerous than 24Vdc. 12Vdc would
be my most preferred, but 24Vdc would be fine if a circuit operated
better with it)
>>>>> Let me know and I can give you a proposal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Jim Hausch
>>>>> Power/mation
>>>>> Cell - 414-254-1857
>>>>> Office - 262-408-6146
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting Information and Random Updates
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Regarding the pressure needed to work well, good (50 psi). The
digital display with 1 rpm and .5rpm accuracy sounds perfect. I
anticipate a splined shaft of approx. 1.75" diameter (for
sprockets). If I need to add an extra couple of inches to allow for
a rotating wheel, that would be no problem at all!! Are we talking
about roughly 10 strong magnets, say...on a 6" diameter wheel? If
so, that would be VERY easy to fabricate a fiberglass disc,
encapsulating said magnets near the rim.
Doesn't need to be that "hoggy" except for general
mechanical robustness. If the magnet disk is subject
to being struck during normal ops, handling or maintenance
then it needs to be shielded or perhaps enclosed. Diameter
could be just large enough to fit over the shaft and leave
room for mounting magnets. Sensor would be potted into
a non-magnetic housing not unlike a pipe-threaded thermowell
temperature sensor. This is one of thousands of Hall switches
that could be considered to the task.
http://tinyurl.com/77pmvke
Other than the sensor to read those rotating magnets, what else would
need to be underwater? The sensor? That should be a sealed unit, no?
Other than the 10-magnet disc and sensor, all other item are topside.
The gauge/display unit would be in a water-tite console.
Just the magnet disk and sensor.
Is there any way we can make these display units work with our
design? I REALLY like their products, I have two of them in my
plane. One for turbo boost (from a MAP sensor), and one of their EGT
gauges and senders. Nice stuff!
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&products_id=212
The displays units are easy to mount, and are bright in sunlight.
Sure, the counter seems to offer a customer programmed
multiply by N divide by K feature for calibrating odd
pulse-per-rev values into other units like rpm, fps, etc.
But then, your 'operator' probably doesn't give a toot
about RPM . . . you could simply display the speed counts
raw and write an operator manual that suggests unitless
values as opposed to RPM.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Hi Jim,
Four targets is fine with me. Can we count on say, a 6" diameter
fiberglass disc, with four
steel target, equally spaced near the outer edge, and a fixture that
securely hold the
sensor 2mm away from the rotating disc?
Mike
On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:30 AM, Jim Hausch wrote:
> This inductive proximity sensor does not use a magnet as a target. SS
or mild steel would work. You could use an of the shelf gear or
sprocket ant sense the teeth. You just dont want the teeth too close
together so the sensor can have an OFF condition between the ON
conditions. In the case of this sort of sensor, a "barrel diameter"
between teeth is more than enough.
>
> The datasheet shows the max switching freq. Speed should not be a
problem, but we can confirm once you tell me how many targets we have on
the disk we will be sensing (such as how many teeth if you use a
sprocket)
>
> Jim
>
Message 5
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Bob,
> "But then, your 'operator' probably doesn't give a toot
> about RPM . . . you could simply display the speed counts
> raw and write an operator manual that suggests unitless
> values as opposed to RPM."
Exactly!! (to the above quote) All our operator needs is a
consistent and
reasonably accurate reading, so that he/she can 'learn' what numbers do
what.
Yes, I can picture the sensor/wheel enclosed in a protective
cover. Too many
rough scenarios to not expect to protect it all under some sort of
guard.
Thanks for your expertise and help. Jim said he has some more
stuff he'll work
on this weekend. I'll wait on him and see what he comes up with before
I order any parts.
Best regard,
Mike
On Jun 22, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Regarding the pressure needed to work well, good (50 psi). The
digital display with 1 rpm and .5rpm accuracy sounds perfect. I
anticipate a splined shaft of approx. 1.75" diameter (for sprockets).
If I need to add an extra couple of inches to allow for a rotating
wheel, that would be no problem at all!! Are we talking about roughly
10 strong magnets, say...on a 6" diameter wheel? If so, that would be
VERY easy to fabricate a fiberglass disc, encapsulating said magnets
near the rim.
>
> Doesn't need to be that "hoggy" except for general
> mechanical robustness. If the magnet disk is subject
> to being struck during normal ops, handling or maintenance
> then it needs to be shielded or perhaps enclosed. Diameter
> could be just large enough to fit over the shaft and leave
> room for mounting magnets. Sensor would be potted into
> a non-magnetic housing not unlike a pipe-threaded thermowell
> temperature sensor. This is one of thousands of Hall switches
> that could be considered to the task.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/77pmvke
>
>
> Other than the sensor to read those rotating magnets, what else would
> need to be underwater? The sensor? That should be a sealed unit, no?
> Other than the 10-magnet disc and sensor, all other item are topside.
> The gauge/display unit would be in a water-tite console.
>
> Just the magnet disk and sensor.
>
>
> Is there any way we can make these display units work with our design?
I REALLY like their products, I have two of them in my plane. One for
turbo boost (from a MAP sensor), and one of their EGT gauges and
senders. Nice stuff!
>
>
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16&prod
ucts_id=212
>
> The displays units are easy to mount, and are bright in sunlight.
>
> Sure, the counter seems to offer a customer programmed
> multiply by N divide by K feature for calibrating odd
> pulse-per-rev values into other units like rpm, fps, etc.
> But then, your 'operator' probably doesn't give a toot
> about RPM . . . you could simply display the speed counts
> raw and write an operator manual that suggests unitless
> values as opposed to RPM.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 6
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> Thanks for your expertise and help. Jim said he has some
> more stuff he'll work
>on this weekend. I'll wait on him and see what he comes up with
>before I order any parts.
Sounds a like a plan. Thanks for the heads-up
on those counters. That user programmable
scale factor feature is slick.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Bob,
Regarding Auber Instruments, I especially like the programmable relays
that are included in them, too.
On my EGT gauge, for instance, I have it set at 1200 deg F to switch
on an adjustable fuel enrichment feature,
in conjunction with a activated LED flashing alarm, to let me know the
circuit is active.
Similar story with my boost gauge. Since I ONLY want 6 psi max boost,
and no more, I have the boost gauge's relay
activate a 19 LED alarm strobing flashing system. It sort of looks
like those mobile highway light signs that strobe
an arrow to change lanes. Can't miss it.
Mike
On Jun 22, 2012, at 9:44 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> Thanks for your expertise and help. Jim said he has some more
stuff he'll work
>> on this weekend. I'll wait on him and see what he comes up with
before I order any parts.
>
> Sounds a like a plan. Thanks for the heads-up
> on those counters. That user programmable
> scale factor feature is slick.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Anybody remember when . . .? |
I seem to recall a conversation some years ago about
an accident involving an RV wherein the crash remains
contained instances where wires were literally pulled
from their terminals.
Does anyone recall the thread and can give me a date
and/or search phrase?
Bob . . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody remember when . . .? |
19/01/2011, subject "Crimping Big Lugs".
James
On 22 June 2012 16:39, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**>
>
> I seem to recall a conversation some years ago about
> an accident involving an RV wherein the crash remains
> contained instances where wires were literally pulled
> from their terminals.
>
> Does anyone recall the thread and can give me a date
> and/or search phrase?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Connecting type K thermocouple |
I have a thermocouple of the type shown from AC Spruce. I was getting
erratic high temp readings and my hangar mate found that the ring terminals
on the thermocouple were cutting into the insulation of the adjacent wire
and causing a short.
I need to reconnect the wires and would like some suggestions as to a good
method. I don't want to go back with ring terminals for obvious reasons, If
I use inline crimp connectors, will this affect the reading since these
connections would only be about a foot from the exhaust manifold and still
inside the engine compartment.\?
Any better suggestions available??
Bill B
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Connecting type K thermocouple |
At 02:11 PM 6/22/2012, you wrote:
>I have a thermocouple of the type shown from AC Spruce. I was
>getting erratic high temp readings and my hangar mate found that the
>ring terminals on the thermocouple were cutting into the insulation
>of the adjacent wire and causing a short.
>
>I need to reconnect the wires and would like some suggestions as to
>a good method. I don't want to go back with ring terminals for
>obvious reasons, If I use inline crimp connectors, will this affect
>the reading since these connections would only be about a foot from
>the exhaust manifold and still inside the engine compartment.\?
>
>Any better suggestions available??
PIDG butt-splices are fine . . . but permanent.
Is there enough slack in the wires to allow clipping
out a butt-splice and replacing it perhaps a half dozen
times?
You can also silver-solder a j-hook joint and then
put heat shrink over it.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody remember when . . .? |
At 10:39 AM 6/22/2012, you wrote:
><nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>I seem to recall a conversation some years ago about
>an accident involving an RV wherein the crash remains
>contained instances where wires were literally pulled
>from their terminals.
>
>Does anyone recall the thread and can give me a date
>and/or search phrase?
thanks guys.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Connecting type K thermocouple |
The red wire insulation seems to be cracking. Will I burn it with the torch
when I try to silver solder it?
Bill B
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Connecting type K thermocouple
At 02:11 PM 6/22/2012, you wrote:
I have a thermocouple of the type shown from AC Spruce. I was getting
erratic high temp readings and my hangar mate found that the ring terminals
on the thermocouple were cutting into the insulation of the adjacent wire
and causing a short.
I need to reconnect the wires and would like some suggestions as to a good
method. I don't want to go back with ring terminals for obvious reasons, If
I use inline crimp connectors, will this affect the reading since these
connections would only be about a foot from the exhaust manifold and still
inside the engine compartment.\?
Any better suggestions available??
PIDG butt-splices are fine . . . but permanent.
Is there enough slack in the wires to allow clipping
out a butt-splice and replacing it perhaps a half dozen
times?
You can also silver-solder a j-hook joint and then
put heat shrink over it.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Viking Schematic |
> This builder needs to FIND OUT how much current each
> of the ECU power inputs need.
Unfortunately there is only ONE power input to the Dual ECU. I find it hard to
believe that the ECU manufacturer would provide only one power input to their
dual ECUs. I suspect that the Viking Engine developer, Jan Eggenfellner , has
elected NOT to use a second available power input. I do not know this to be
a fact. It is just speculation on my part.
> Then find this out. Anyone willing to launch into the blue
> without answers to such questions is an accident waiting
> to happen . . . either from ignorance of this specific
> question or others like it.
Unfortunately, Mr Eggenfellner has not answered such questions, probably because
he does not know the answers. He is a good mechanic but might lack electrical
knowledge.
> FIND OUT if the operating the two ECUs in tandem
> presents a risk. FIND OUT also how much current these
> systems demand in cruising flight.
This question has been asked on the Viking website with no response from Mr Eggenfellner.
If my assumption is correct that a high signal enables ECU1 and a
low signal enables ECU2, then it would be impossible to operate both at once.
No one knows the consequences of the simultaneous application of both high and
low signals to the SELECT wire or the consequences of an open floating input.
My friend is making the final decisions on wiring his airplane. He has accepted
some of my recommendations and rejected some.
From my point of view, it is hard to design a fool proof system without knowing
the requirements or answers to above questions. All I can do is ensure that
power is always available to the lone ECU power wire, regardless of the failure
of any one component. And ensure that there is either a high or low signal
on the SELECT wire, but never both at once.
I think that we agree that the electrical system for the Viking engine has not
been designed with a backup plan in the event of failure of key components.
I am happy with my Rotax 912 engine.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376382#376382
Message 15
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| Subject: | Connecting type K thermocouple |
At 03:58 PM 6/22/2012, you wrote:
>The red wire insulation seems to be cracking. Will I burn it with
>the torch when I try to silver solder it?
You need to use a very small butane torch
http://tinyurl.com/7mm63u4
my personal favorite is a Bernzomatic product
http://tinyurl.com/7mucxz5
which you can often find at Lowe's, Home Depot,
et. als.
But you will still damage a small amount of insulation
which you'll cover with the shrink.
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Viking Schematic |
<snip>
From my point of view, it is hard to design a fool proof system
without knowing the requirements or answers to above questions. All
I can do is ensure that power is always available to the lone ECU
power wire, regardless of the failure of any one component. And
ensure that there is either a high or low signal on the SELECT wire,
but never both at once.
I think you're right . . .
I think that we agree that the electrical system for the Viking
engine has not been designed with a backup plan in the event of
failure of key components.
Hmmmm . . . I think this is a system I'd like to
steer clear of . . .
Bob . . .
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