AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 06/24/12


Total Messages Posted: 3



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Viking Schematic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 10:12 AM - Re: Viking Schematic (user9253)
     3. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: Viking Schematic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 08:03:16 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Viking Schematic
    > From my point of view, it is hard to design a fool proof system > without knowing the requirements or answers to above > questions. All I can do is ensure that power is always available > to the lone ECU power wire, regardless of the failure of any one > component. And ensure that there is either a high or low signal on > the SELECT wire, but never both at once. >I think that we agree that the electrical system for the Viking >engine has not been designed with a backup plan in the event of >failure of key components. Joe, I don't know your friend . . . and I hope that my worst concerns for how his project is going together are unfounded. You're in the best position to add to his knowledge pool for making sure that his airplane goes together with a minimum of built-in risks. I recall having tried to converse with Eggenfellner some years back. Very uncooperative to the extent that I was concerned about his knowledge and attitudes for offering critical systems to aircraft. If your friend has not already read and studied the hindsight available on line surrounding the Dan Lloyd, RV-10, Eggenfellner accident, please encourage him to do so. The postings in part are available here: http://tinyurl.com/7292l3z http://tinyurl.com/6lqzab2 http://tinyurl.com/7ho2w57 Maybe he's already 'plugged in' . . . without having engaged him in conversation and observed his work, we cannot know. I am particularly miffed with the Eggenfellner design in that supposedly dual, independent engine critical systems are not fitted with independent power and control paths. I don't recall the engine being considered when Z-19 was being crafted, it might have been the Eggenfellner product. It suggests steering diodes mounted close to the single-power input connection to one-of power plant accessories. If I had no other choices but to install a Viking engine I would take a similar approach. Normal and Alternate engine control switches. One taking power from the Main Battery Bus, one taking power from an Aux Battery Bus. If the numbers of switches is to be kept low, then use #1 switch to activate both power and command to the ECU for Normal Ops, the #2 switch to activate both power and command for Survivable Failure Ops. They have a moral, ethical, professional and even perhaps legal duty to make such data available to customers. Alternatively, they should offer their own iteration of Z-19 to provide failure tolerant functionality. One or the other. If Dan Lloyd's engine quit due to the disconnect of one wire and could not be restarted by selection of Plan-B . . . then somewhere along the line, too many balls were fumbled . . . and not for subtle, esoteric reasons. My perceptions of risk for the Viking engine versus Eggenfellner are disturbingly similar. A discussion that really needs to be conducted for mounting a concentrated effort to acquire system integration data from Viking Engines as to current demands and consequences of having both ECU active at the same time. This is simple data, easy to acquire and absolutely necessary for competent system integration. Get me a name of a person that your friend is working with at Viking and I'll make the call. Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 10:12:59 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Viking Schematic
    From: "user9253" <fran4sew@banyanol.com>
    Bob, My friend sent me a CC email today that he also sent to others who are installing a Viking engine. Here is a copy of that message: > Joe introduced me to the Matronics forum, sponsored by Bob Nuckolls. There is an RV 12 section, and Joe submitted our concerns for public comments. Suggest you read the exchange and join the list. And so, my friend and others are aware of the inadequate electrical system illustrated on the Viking website. > Get me a name of a person that your friend > is working with at Viking and I'll make the call. I am not aware of anyone at Viking giving electrical advice beside Jan E. I think that it would benefit Jan Eggenfellner to make available all information about the electrical system, especially the ECU. Helping to prevent crashes of Viking powered aircraft will help his business. Even if Jan E is electrically challenged, others can use information that he provides to come up with an electrical system that will keep the engine running despite the failure of any one component. Bob, I appreciate your concern. There may be some builders blindly following the Viking electrical drawings. But the builders that I am in contact with know the dangers and risks. Unfortunately the risks can not be mitigated without more knowledge of the ECU requirements and capabilities. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376495#376495


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:05:45 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Viking Schematic
    I am not aware of anyone at Viking giving electrical advice beside Jan E. I think that it would benefit Jan Eggenfellner to make available all information about the electrical system, especially the ECU. My face is red . . . I didn't realize that Viking was direct descendant from the original Eggenfellner Subaru operations. Okay, I'll drop a note to Jan and see what, if any, information he can share toward the goal of crafting a more failure tolerant design Bob . . .




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