Today's Message Index:
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1. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: Viking Schematic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 10:12 AM - Re: Viking Schematic (user9253)
3. 07:05 PM - Re: Re: Viking Schematic (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Viking Schematic |
> From my point of view, it is hard to design a fool proof system
> without knowing the requirements or answers to above
> questions. All I can do is ensure that power is always available
> to the lone ECU power wire, regardless of the failure of any one
> component. And ensure that there is either a high or low signal on
> the SELECT wire, but never both at once.
>I think that we agree that the electrical system for the Viking
>engine has not been designed with a backup plan in the event of
>failure of key components.
Joe,
I don't know your friend . . . and I hope that my
worst concerns for how his project is going together
are unfounded. You're in the best position to add
to his knowledge pool for making sure that his
airplane goes together with a minimum of built-in
risks.
I recall having tried to converse with Eggenfellner
some years back. Very uncooperative to the extent that
I was concerned about his knowledge and attitudes for
offering critical systems to aircraft.
If your friend has not already read and studied the
hindsight available on line surrounding the Dan
Lloyd, RV-10, Eggenfellner accident, please encourage
him to do so. The postings in part are available
here:
http://tinyurl.com/7292l3z
http://tinyurl.com/6lqzab2
http://tinyurl.com/7ho2w57
Maybe he's already 'plugged in' . . . without
having engaged him in conversation and observed
his work, we cannot know. I am particularly
miffed with the Eggenfellner design in that
supposedly dual, independent engine critical
systems are not fitted with independent power
and control paths. I don't recall the engine
being considered when Z-19 was being crafted,
it might have been the Eggenfellner product.
It suggests steering diodes mounted close to
the single-power input connection to one-of
power plant accessories. If I had no other
choices but to install a Viking engine I
would take a similar approach.
Normal and Alternate engine control switches.
One taking power from the Main Battery Bus,
one taking power from an Aux Battery Bus.
If the numbers of switches is to be kept
low, then use #1 switch to activate both
power and command to the ECU for Normal
Ops, the #2 switch to activate both power
and command for Survivable Failure Ops.
They have a moral, ethical, professional and
even perhaps legal duty to make such data
available to customers. Alternatively,
they should offer their own iteration of Z-19
to provide failure tolerant functionality.
One or the other. If Dan Lloyd's engine
quit due to the disconnect of one wire and
could not be restarted by selection of
Plan-B . . . then somewhere along the line,
too many balls were fumbled . . . and not
for subtle, esoteric reasons. My perceptions
of risk for the Viking engine versus Eggenfellner
are disturbingly similar.
A discussion that really needs to be
conducted for mounting a concentrated
effort to acquire system integration data
from Viking Engines as to current demands and
consequences of having both ECU active at the
same time. This is simple data, easy to acquire
and absolutely necessary for competent
system integration.
Get me a name of a person that your friend
is working with at Viking and I'll make the
call.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Viking Schematic |
Bob,
My friend sent me a CC email today that he also sent to others who are installing
a Viking engine. Here is a copy of that message:
> Joe introduced me to the Matronics forum, sponsored by Bob Nuckolls. There is
an RV 12 section, and Joe submitted our concerns for public comments. Suggest
you read the exchange and join the list.
And so, my friend and others are aware of the inadequate electrical system illustrated
on the Viking website.
> Get me a name of a person that your friend
> is working with at Viking and I'll make the call.
I am not aware of anyone at Viking giving electrical advice beside Jan E.
I think that it would benefit Jan Eggenfellner to make available all information
about the electrical system, especially the ECU. Helping to prevent crashes
of Viking powered aircraft will help his business. Even if Jan E is electrically
challenged, others can use information that he provides to come up with an
electrical system that will keep the engine running despite the failure of any
one component.
Bob, I appreciate your concern. There may be some builders blindly following
the Viking electrical drawings. But the builders that I am in contact with know
the dangers and risks. Unfortunately the risks can not be mitigated without
more knowledge of the ECU requirements and capabilities.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376495#376495
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Viking Schematic |
I am not aware of anyone at Viking giving electrical advice
beside Jan E. I think that it would benefit Jan Eggenfellner
to make available all information about the electrical system,
especially the ECU.
My face is red . . . I didn't realize that Viking was
direct descendant from the original Eggenfellner Subaru
operations.
Okay, I'll drop a note to Jan and see what, if any, information
he can share toward the goal of crafting a more failure tolerant
design
Bob . . .
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