Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:31 AM - 1562 (Janet Amtmann)
2. 08:58 AM - Re: 1562 (ROGER & JEAN CURTIS)
3. 09:14 AM - Re: 1562 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 09:14 AM - Re: 1562 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: OS Wig-Wag Project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 10:55 AM - 1562 Maintainer (Janet Amtmann)
7. 11:33 AM - Re: 1562 Maintainer (Michael Welch)
8. 12:00 PM - Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. (user9253)
9. 12:39 PM - Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 01:01 PM - Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. (user9253)
11. 01:06 PM - Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. (user9253)
12. 03:35 PM - Re: OS Wig-Wag Project (gregmchugh)
13. 04:22 PM - Service Record Number 87343 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 06:33 PM - What'w wrong with this circuit? (Jeff Luckey)
Message 1
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Thanks to David and the List, the problem with my 1562 Maintainer has been
solved. Schumacher, on the other hand was either unwilling or unable to
help me.
Regards, J=FCrgen Amtmann
Do not archive
Message 2
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Thanks to David and the List, the problem with my 1562 Maintainer has
been
solved. Schumacher, on the other hand was either unwilling or unable to
help me.
Regards, J=FCrgen Amtmann
Please let us know what you did to fix it.
Thanks,
Roger
Do not archive
Message 3
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At 10:25 AM 6/25/2012, you wrote:
>Thanks to David and the List, the problem with my 1562 Maintainer
>has been solved. Schumacher, on the other hand was either unwilling
>or unable to help me.
Good to hear . . . probably 'unable' . . . in large,
ISO9000 organizations folks are hired to fill silos
of duty and supplied with "organizationally correct"
knowledge to fulfill those duties. On top of that,
they're seldom mentored to hone their skills at
performing those duties.
Hence, the individuals who talk to you on the
phone are multiple levels and silos away from
the folks who designed the product. Unlike airplanes,
there's no maintenance services for customers.
Devices like a 1562 that retails for $20 and costs
less than $5 to build is simply a disposable
commodity. The very best response one can expect
from 'factory support' is an offer to replace
on warranty.
You may recall my narrative of a visit to MPA's
alternator re-manufacturing facilities a few years
ago. Return rates for good, better, best alternators
was something like 18, 12, and 6 percent. All three
'grades' were the exact same alternator sold perhaps
in a different box and supported by a service-
contract that the customer buys built into the price
for the better and best.
MPA didn't keep tight records as to reasons for returns.
Periodic studies showed that the vast majority of
all returns were 'no fault found' . . . the rates of
return seemed to have more to do with the grade of
installing/troubleshooting mechanic. Returned units
didn't get any heavy screening at the retail counter.
Perfectly good returns were simply dumped into the
re-cycle stream and processed just like a unit covered
in 100,000 miles of grease and mud.
This is because labor is the largest single cost for
end-to-end service on most commodity products. It simply
doesn't make sense to even wonder about why a device
is returned. Only when statistical process controls
show a marked jump in overall returns will engineering
or QA even get into the loop. The cost of processing
no-fault-found returns is simply factored into the
cost of doing business and added to the retail price.
So I'm not surprised that your experience with
Schumacher was less than satisfying. I suspect it would
be equally unsatisfying if you were dealing with MPA.
There's simply no return on investment for giving the
occasional customer an intellectually satisfying
experience for having found, understood and fixed
root cause in spite of the fact that both companies
produce a stellar product,
It's the new world of consumer products where
everybody strives for a $100,000/year job. It's cheaper
to pitch/replace their work product than to fix it.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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At 10:55 AM 6/25/2012, you wrote:
Thanks to David and the List, the problem with my
1562 Maintainer has been solved. Schumacher, on
the other hand was either unwilling or unable to help me.
Regards, J=FCrgen Amtmann
Please let us know what you did to fix it.
Thanks,
Roger
Do not archive
Yes! Pictures would be great too . . . if
you had to do something inside.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: OS Wig-Wag Project |
Greg,
Been up to my fanny in loft beds and plumbing but
while plying the asphalt between here and Wichita
I came up with this idea for getting "more" from
the OS wig-wag module.
How about two switches labeled LANDING and TAXI.
Have each switch provide an active LO to produce
an action on the two lights as follows:
Emacs!
This would give the builder/installer the option of
both on steady or wig-wag depending on a difference
in paired or separate selection of the two switch
positions. If in single lamp operation, the switches
would both have to be placed at off and the simultaneously
placed to ON to switch to Wig-Wag. Otherwise, the two
switches independently control their respective lamps
in steady-on operation.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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David suggested that I publish the steps I took to get my 1562 Maintainer
to revert to its normal mode of operation after it stopped maintaining and
stayed in the charge mode (yellow LED). He suggested that some processors
(like the one in the 1562) can get confused and need to go thru a reset
sequence to get back to normal operation. So, for anyone that has the same
problem: disconnect the maintainer from power and battery, after a decent
interval connect the charge clips to the battery, then connect the power
cord. Disconnect the power cord first, then disconnect the charge clips.
I did it twice. The maintainer is now acting normally and maintaining my
battery (green LED). Thanks David.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 1562 Maintainer |
Thanks for the tips. Mine is doing the exact same thing. I'll give it
a try.
Mike Welch
On Jun 25, 2012, at 12:54 PM, Janet Amtmann wrote:
> David suggested that I publish the steps I took to get my 1562
Maintainer to revert to its normal mode of operation after it stopped
maintaining and stayed in the charge mode (yellow LED). He suggested
that some processors (like the one in the 1562) can get confused and
need to go thru a reset sequence to get back to normal operation. So,
for anyone that has the same problem: disconnect the maintainer from
power and battery, after a decent interval connect the charge clips to
the battery, then connect the power cord. Disconnect the power cord
first, then disconnect the charge clips. I did it twice. The
maintainer is now acting normally and maintaining my battery (green
LED). Thanks David.
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. |
From: Aviation Product Support
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 9:52 AM
Subject: Start engine with SL40 turned on ISSUE=87343 PROJ=1
Email Notification from Garmin Aviation Product Support
Thank you for contacting Garmin Aviation Product Support. Your service record has
been created with the information below.
For immediate assistance please call 866-739-5687 during normal business hours
(7AM 7PM US Central time, Monday through Friday) and refer to the Service Record
Number below.
Service Record Number: 87343
Subject: Start engine with SL40 turned on
Last update: 06/25/2012 07:52:39
Brief description of the problem:
It is not recommended - damage could result if a spike from the electrical system
made it to the unit and was to fast for the protection circuitry to catch it.
If any of the above information is incorrect, please reply to this email with corrected contact information. You may also contact Garmin Aviation Product Support at 866-739-5687 and provide the information to the agent who assists you. For the latest news about Garmin products and services, please visit our Web site at www.garmin.com.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376582#376582
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. |
At 02:00 PM 6/25/2012, you wrote:
>
>From: Aviation Product Support
>Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 9:52 AM
>Subject: Start engine with SL40 turned on ISSUE=87343 PROJ=1
>
>Email Notification from Garmin Aviation Product Support
>Thank you for contacting Garmin Aviation Product
>Support. Your service record has been created with the information below.
>
>For immediate assistance please call
>866-739-5687 during normal business hours (7AM
> 7PM US Central time, Monday through Friday)
>and refer to the Service Record Number below.
>
>Service Record Number: 87343
>Subject: Start engine with SL40 turned on
>Last update: 06/25/2012 07:52:39
>
>Brief description of the problem:
>It is not recommended - damage could result if a
>spike from the electrical system made it to the
>unit and was to fast for the protection circuitry to catch it.
>
>
>If any of the above information is incorrect,
>please reply to this email with corrected contact information.
Can you give me the reverse e-mail link? It would be
interesting to see if anyone at Garmin has identified
a new spike risk. It would also be interesting to know
how one crafts "slow protection circuitry" . . .
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. |
Aviation.Support (at) garmin dot com
Here you go Bob. Replace the (at) with @ and replace the dot with a period and
remove the spaces.
Mention Service Record Number: 87343
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376586#376586
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. |
Below is the question that my friend asked Garmin:
> I would like to know if it is acceptable to start the engine when my SL40 is
turned on.
[/code]
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376589#376589
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: OS Wig-Wag Project |
Bob,
That seems to be a good solution. I will spin a version of the
software for this and send another PIC chip along to you.
Probably sent off to you by the end of the week.
Greg McHugh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376597#376597
Message 13
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| Subject: | Service Record Number 87343 |
Good morning,
By way of introduction, I'm an electrical engineer retired
from a 45 year career in aviation related electrics and
electronics. My last 13-year stint was with Hawker-Beechcraft
where most of my job focused on environmental robustness and
DO-160 certification issues. The last 5 years at HBC included
the duties of Lead Subject Matter Expert for Electrical Systems.
A client of mine forwarded an email from your address wherein
it was suggested that certain 'spikes' present on the electrical
system during engine cranking might be damaging to your SL-40
product.
I was surprised by this assertion for two reasons:
(1) DO-160 Qualification Protocols have evolved over the last 50+
years to assist designers and manufacturers in the production
of products immune to the worst case stresses that one might
expect on the DC power system of an airplane (or any other vehicle).
(2) In years of watching instrumented DC power conditions under
all operating conditions on everything from Cessna 150s through
the Hawker 800, I've never had occasion to capture a transient event
(other than gross over-voltage) that would offer a threat
to an artfully crafted and qualified piece of avionics. During
engine cranking, the bus is remarkably free of transients that
exceed energy levels to which every qualified device is subjected
during DO-160 testing.
The assertion made in your email to my client gives one pause
to wonder if Garmin is (1) aware of some design deficiency that would
make the product vulnerable to normal and expected DC bus transients
or (2) some new and heretofore undiscovered threat has been identified
that exceeds DO-160 qualification requirements.
I've been teaching my students that we no longer need be
concerned about such matters for devices qualified to DO-160.
Indeed, I've either designed or been cognizant of dozens of
'fragile', micro-processor based devices which are connected
to the ship's main bus under all conditions including
engine cranking. None of these devices requires extra-ordinary
protection for start-up transients. I'm curious about differences
in the SL-40 that prompts Garmin to assert some value in
disconnecting the radio during engine cranking.
The idea is contrary to my own understanding of the physics
involved and argues with what I have been teaching in my
classes for the last 25 years. If I'm in error, I'd really
need to be aware of any enlightenment one of your engineers
might offer. Thanks!
Kindest regards,
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
AeroElectric Connection
P.O. Box 130
Medicine Lodge, Kansas 67104
(316)209-7528
Message 14
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| Subject: | What'w wrong with this circuit? |
Please see attached jpg (and forgive my scribbling).
Schematic is simplified - omitting things like contactors. Looking for
discussion on the general theory of feeding main bus thru isolation diodes
for max protection from failure in batt -> contactor -> feed cable chain
Mission:
To provide reliable power to the Bus
Assume:
The diodes are big & well heat-sunk (sinked?)
Analysis:
1. What are the top 3 reasons not to use a circuit like this
2. Other ways to accomplish the same thing
Thanks,
Jeff Luckey
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