Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:07 AM - Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? (Roger)
2. 06:16 AM - Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? (Eric M. Jones)
3. 08:22 AM - Producing pdf or xps files with ExpressSCH (Vern Little)
4. 11:36 AM - Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? (Henador Titzoff)
5. 01:34 PM - Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? (Jeff Luckey)
6. 01:39 PM - Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? (Jeff Luckey)
7. 04:11 PM - Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? (Henador Titzoff)
8. 04:42 PM - Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? (Jeff Luckey)
9. 05:49 PM - Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 06:25 PM - Re: What's wrong with this circuit? (Jeff Luckey)
11. 06:30 PM - Re: What's wrong with this circuit? (Jeff Luckey)
12. 06:57 PM - Re: What's wrong with this circuit? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:32 PM - Re: What's wrong with this circuit? (Jeff Luckey)
14. 10:03 PM - Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. (mmayfield)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? |
Schematic is simplified - omitting things like contactors. Looking
for discussion on the general theory of feeding main bus thru isolation
diodes for max protection from failure in batt -> contactor -> feed
cable chain
Mission:
To provide reliable power to the Bus
Assume:
The diodes are big & well heat-sunk (sinked?)
Analysis:
1. What are the top 3 reasons not to use a circuit like this
2. Other ways to accomplish the same thing
Thanks,
Jeff Luckey
Your system will work, but there are many unanswered questions that
must be addressed before the final design can be reached. Among other
things you need to decide the utility of the craft ie., day VFR, IFR,
etc. Instrumentation, lights etc. that will need to be powered. Is the
engine ignition battery dependent? This along with system integrity and
reliability, much of which has been discussed on this forum.
My suggestion is to go through the schematics offered on the
Aeroelectric site and pick the one that is the simplest and will suit
your needs. No reason to reinvent the wheel,"Bob already did it"
If you do not feel comfortable selecting a schematic, or need some
help with special mods, then this is a great place to ask. You will
only be able to get help if you detail your aircraft and how it will be
used. As you can see, from looking at Bob's library of schmatics there
are a variety of options to craft a good reliable electrical system.
Roger
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? |
Basically it's fine. I have been selling a Power-Schottky part that will do this
function for some time. I think others do to. See attached.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376632#376632
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/power_deuce_schottky_manual_142.pdf
Message 3
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| Subject: | Producing pdf or xps files with ExpressSCH |
For those of you using ExpressSCH/ExpressPCB, I have been corresponding
with technical support at expresspcb.com about a =98printing
problem=99.
I would like to product .pdf files for multi-sheet ExpressSCH files.
When I do this, I get multiple dialogs (one per sheet), and multiple
single-page files as the output rather than one file with all sheets. I
have confirmed this bug on XP, Vista and Win7 on two different
computers.
Further investigation gives me the same problem with .xps output (not
that anyone cares about this format). I=99ve also found that when
I print to a physical printer, multiple print jobs are created in the
queue. The physical print issue is not really a problem.
I have some schematics that are 20 pages long that I wish to publish and
share in pdf format. For example are my electrical system designs for
my RV-9A and Harmon Rocket and several designs for electronic gadgets
that may be of interest.
I=99m curious if anyone else has this problem. An easy way to
test it is to try to print as an .xps file, which is supported on all
versions of Windows.
Thanks, Vern.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: What'w wrong with this circuit? |
Roger,
The only thing that concerns me is how you're going to connect the alternat
or to BOTH batteries.=C2- That will essentially short their positives tog
ether, thus paralleling them.=C2- Do you have two alternators?
Henador Titzoff
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0A =C2- =0A =0A
=C2- =0A Schematic is simplified =93 omitting things like =0A con
tactors.=C2- Looking for discussion on the general theory of feeding main
=0A bus thru isolation diodes for max protection from failure in batt ->
=0A contactor -> feed cable chain=0A =C2-=0AMission: =0A =C2-To pr
ovide reliable power to the =0A Bus =0A =C2-Assume: =0A =C2-The di
odes are big & well heat-sunk =0A (sinked?) =0A =C2-Analysis: =0A
=C2- =0A 1. What are the top 3 reasons not to use a circuit like =0A th
is =0A 2. Other ways to accomplish the same =0A thing =0A =C2- =0A T
hanks, =0A =C2- =0A Jeff =0A Luckey =0A =C2- =0A =C2-=0A =0A
Your system will work, but there are many =0A unanswered questions
that must be addressed before the final design can be =0A reached.=C2-
Among other things you need to decide the utility of the =0A craft ie.,
day VFR, IFR, etc.=C2- Instrumentation, lights etc. that will =0A nee
d to be powered.=C2- Is the engine ignition battery dependent?=C2- =0A
This along with system integrity and reliability, much of which has been
=0A discussed on this forum. =0A =C2-=0A My suggestion is to
go through the schematics =0A offered on the Aeroelectric site and pick
the one that is the =0A simplest=C2-and will suit your needs.=C2- No
reason to reinvent the =0A wheel,"Bob already did it" =0A =C2-=0A
If you do not feel comfortable selecting a =0A schematic, or need s
ome help with special mods, then this is a great place =0A to ask.=C2-
You will only be able to get help if you detail your aircraft =0A and h
ow it will be used.=C2- As you can see, from looking at Bob's library =0A
of schmatics there are a variety of options to craft a good reliable
===================0A=0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | What'w wrong with this circuit? |
Henador,
The diodes shown isolate the batts from each other.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:35
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
Roger,
The only thing that concerns me is how you're going to connect the
alternator to BOTH batteries. That will essentially short their positives
together, thus paralleling them. Do you have two alternators?
Henador Titzoff
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
Schematic is simplified - omitting things like contactors. Looking for
discussion on the general theory of feeding main bus thru isolation diodes
for max protection from failure in batt -> contactor -> feed cable chain
Mission:
To provide reliable power to the Bus
Assume:
The diodes are big & well heat-sunk (sinked?)
Analysis:
1. What are the top 3 reasons not to use a circuit like this
2. Other ways to accomplish the same thing
Thanks,
Jeff Luckey
Your system will work, but there are many unanswered questions that must be
addressed before the final design can be reached. Among other things you
need to decide the utility of the craft ie., day VFR, IFR, etc.
Instrumentation, lights etc. that will need to be powered. Is the engine
ignition battery dependent? This along with system integrity and
reliability, much of which has been discussed on this forum.
My suggestion is to go through the schematics offered on the Aeroelectric
site and pick the one that is the simplest and will suit your needs. No
reason to reinvent the wheel,"Bob already did it"
If you do not feel comfortable selecting a schematic, or need some help with
special mods, then this is a great place to ask. You will only be able to
get help if you detail your aircraft and how it will be used. As you can
see, from looking at Bob's library of schmatics there are a variety of
options to craft a good reliable electrical system.
Roger
http://www.matron="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://www.matronics.com/contribution">ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | What'w wrong with this circuit? |
That was an incomplete answer.
If on a single-alternator system, the alternator will have to charge thru a
charge divider circuit.
_____
From: Jeff Luckey [mailto:JLuckey@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 13:33
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
Henador,
The diodes shown isolate the batts from each other.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:35
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
Roger,
The only thing that concerns me is how you're going to connect the
alternator to BOTH batteries. That will essentially short their positives
together, thus paralleling them. Do you have two alternators?
Henador Titzoff
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
Schematic is simplified - omitting things like contactors. Looking for
discussion on the general theory of feeding main bus thru isolation diodes
for max protection from failure in batt -> contactor -> feed cable chain
Mission:
To provide reliable power to the Bus
Assume:
The diodes are big & well heat-sunk (sinked?)
Analysis:
1. What are the top 3 reasons not to use a circuit like this
2. Other ways to accomplish the same thing
Thanks,
Jeff Luckey
Your system will work, but there are many unanswered questions that must be
addressed before the final design can be reached. Among other things you
need to decide the utility of the craft ie., day VFR, IFR, etc.
Instrumentation, lights etc. that will need to be powered. Is the engine
ignition battery dependent? This along with system integrity and
reliability, much of which has been discussed on this forum.
My suggestion is to go through the schematics offered on the Aeroelectric
site and pick the one that is the simplest and will suit your needs. No
reason to reinvent the wheel,"Bob already did it"
If you do not feel comfortable selecting a schematic, or need some help with
special mods, then this is a great place to ask. You will only be able to
get help if you detail your aircraft and how it will be used. As you can
see, from looking at Bob's library of schmatics there are a variety of
options to craft a good reliable electrical system.
Roger
http://www.matron="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://www.matronics.com/contribution">ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | What'w wrong with this circuit? |
What's a charge divider circuit, Jeff? =C2-Is it an electronic hatchet co
mprised of one, two or a PLC controlled by a laptop? =C2-Can you send us
a screamatic?
Henador Titzoff
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Jeff Luckey <JLuckey@pacbell.net> wrote:
From: Jeff Luckey <JLuckey@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThat
was an incomplete answer =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AIf on a single-alter
nator system, the=0Aalternator will have to charge thru a charge divider ci
rcuit. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Jeff Luckey=0A[mai
lto:JLuckey@pacbell.net]
=0ASent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 13:33
=0ATo: ' aeroelectric-list@matronics.com '
=0ASubject: RE: AeroElectric-List:=0AWhat'w wrong with this circuit? =0A=0A
=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0AHenador, =0A=0AThe diodes shown isolate the batts from
=0Aeach other. =0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-aero
electric-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server
@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador Titzoff
=0ASent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:35
=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List:=0AWhat'w wrong with this circuit? =0A=0A
=0A=0A =C2- =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A Roger,
=0A
=0A The only thing that concerns me is how you're going to connect the alt
ernator=0A to BOTH batteries.=C2- That will essentially short their posi
tives=0A together, thus paralleling them.=C2- Do you have two alternator
s?
=0A
=0A Henador Titzoff
=0A
=0A
=0A --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>=0A wrote:
=0A
=0A From: Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
=0A Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
=0A To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
=0A Date: Tuesday, June 26, 2012, 6:04 AM =0A =0A =0A =0A =C2- =0A
=0A =0A =0A =C2- =0A =0A =C2- =0A Schematic is simplified
=93 omitting=0A things like contactors.=C2- Looking for discussion on th
e general theory of=0A feeding main bus thru isolation diodes for max prot
ection from failure in=0A batt -> contactor -> feed cable chain =0A =C2
-=0A Mission: =0A =C2-To provide reliable power to=0A the Bus =0A
=C2-Assume: =0A =C2-The diodes are big &=0A well heat-sunk (sinked?)
=0A =C2-Analysis: =0A =C2- =0A 1. What are the top 3 reasons not=0A
to use a circuit like this =0A 2. Other ways to accomplish the=0A same t
hing =0A =C2- =0A Thanks, =0A =C2- =0A Jeff Luckey =0A =C2- =0A
=C2- =0A =0A Your system will work, but there=0A are many unanswered
questions that must be addressed before the final design=0A can be reached
.=C2- Among other things you need to decide the utility of=0A the craft
ie., day VFR, IFR, etc.=C2- Instrumentation, lights etc. that=0A will ne
ed to be powered.=C2- Is the engine ignition battery=0A dependent?=C2-
This along with system integrity and reliability, much of=0A which has be
en discussed on this forum. =0A =C2- =0A My suggestion is to go through
the=0A schematics offered on the Aeroelectric site and pick the one that
is the=0A simplest=C2-and will suit your needs.=C2- No reason to reinv
ent the=0A wheel,"Bob already did it" =0A =C2- =0A If you do not feel
comfortable=0A selecting a schematic, or need some help with special mods,
then this is a=0A great place to ask.=C2- You will only be able to get
help if you detail=0A your aircraft and how it will be used.=C2- As you
can see, from looking at=0A Bob's library of schmatics there are a variety
of options to craft a good=0A reliable electrical system. =0A =C2- =0A
Roger =0A =0A =0A http://www.matron="nofollow" target="_blank" hre
f="http://forums.matronics.com">http://www.matronics.com/contribution">ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution============ =C2
- =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A =C2- =C2-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator
?AeroElectric-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contr
ibution =C2- =0A=0A=0A=0ANo virus found in this message.
=0AChecked by AVG - www.avg.com
=====0A=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | What'w wrong with this circuit? |
There are certainly "intelligent" charge dividers available but in this case
I'm thinking about something much more "old-fashioned" - like a couple of
diodes in the output of the alternator which isolate the 2 batteries from
each other. I will scribble a schematic when time permits.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 16:08
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
What's a charge divider circuit, Jeff? Is it an electronic hatchet
comprised of one, two or a PLC controlled by a laptop? Can you send us a
screamatic?
Henador Titzoff
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Jeff Luckey <JLuckey@pacbell.net> wrote:
From: Jeff Luckey <JLuckey@pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
That was an incomplete answer.
If on a single-alternator system, the alternator will have to charge thru a
charge divider circuit.
_____
From: Jeff Luckey [mailto:JLuckey@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 13:33
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
Henador,
The diodes shown isolate the batts from each other.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henador
Titzoff
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:35
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
Roger,
The only thing that concerns me is how you're going to connect the
alternator to BOTH batteries. That will essentially short their positives
together, thus paralleling them. Do you have two alternators?
Henador Titzoff
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Roger <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
Schematic is simplified - omitting things like contactors. Looking for
discussion on the general theory of feeding main bus thru isolation diodes
for max protection from failure in batt -> contactor -> feed cable chain
Mission:
To provide reliable power to the Bus
Assume:
The diodes are big & well heat-sunk (sinked?)
Analysis:
1. What are the top 3 reasons not to use a circuit like this
2. Other ways to accomplish the same thing
Thanks,
Jeff Luckey
Your system will work, but there are many unanswered questions that must be
addressed before the final design can be reached. Among other things you
need to decide the utility of the craft ie., day VFR, IFR, etc.
Instrumentation, lights etc. that will need to be powered. Is the engine
ignition battery dependent? This along with system integrity and
reliability, much of which has been discussed on this forum.
My suggestion is to go through the schematics offered on the Aeroelectric
site and pick the one that is the simplest and will suit your needs. No
reason to reinvent the wheel,"Bob already did it"
If you do not feel comfortable selecting a schematic, or need some help with
special mods, then this is a great place to ask. You will only be able to
get help if you detail your aircraft and how it will be used. As you can
see, from looking at Bob's library of schmatics there are a variety of
options to craft a good reliable electrical system.
Roger
http://www.matron="nofollow" target="_blank"
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://www.matronics.com/contribution">ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution===========
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
06/26/12
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-Listhttp://================
=====
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | What'w wrong with this circuit? |
At 06:41 PM 6/26/2012, you wrote:
>There are certainly =93intelligent=94 charge dividers available
Can you cite such a product we can see on the 'net?
I'm not sure I know what these devices are . . .
> but in this case I=92m thinking about something
> much more =93old-fashioned=94 ' like a couple of
> diodes in the output of the alternator which
> isolate the 2 batteries from each other. I
> will scribble a schematic when time permits.
You might wish to fold ideas in this article
into your deliberations.
http://tinyurl.com/77sf9sx
http://tinyurl.com/78lg7kf
http://tinyurl.com/7lhbbah
What value do you see for solid-state isolation of
batteries? What's the failure you're trying to
make tolerable? What are the cost, weight, energy
benefits ratios for diode isolation versus hard-contacts
isolation?
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | What's wrong with this circuit? |
Bob,
What's the failure you're trying to
make tolerable?
Mechanical failure of feed lines from a batt contactor to distribution panel
(in instrument panel). One possibility: a lug cracking and breaking loose
and going to ground. (I've seen this one) I'm sure I could dream-up a few
other scenarios.(likelihood is really the question)
What are the cost, weight, energy
benefits ratios for diode isolation versus hard-contacts
isolation?
I see the $ cost as acceptable; the additional weight as minimal; the wasted
energy as insignificant;
I see the "automatic" nature of this protection as a big plus.
-Jeff
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 17:49
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
At 06:41 PM 6/26/2012, you wrote:
There are certainly "intelligent" charge dividers available
Can you cite such a product we can see on the 'net?
I'm not sure I know what these devices are . . .
but in this case I'm thinking about something much more "old-fashioned" -
like a couple of diodes in the output of the alternator which isolate the 2
batteries from each other. I will scribble a schematic when time permits.
You might wish to fold ideas in this article
into your deliberations.
http://tinyurl.com/77sf9sx
http://tinyurl.com/78lg7kf
http://tinyurl.com/7lhbbah
What value do you see for solid-state isolation of
batteries? What's the failure you're trying to
make tolerable? What are the cost, weight, energy
benefits ratios for diode isolation versus hard-contacts
isolation?
Bob . . .
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | What's wrong with this circuit? |
Can you cite such a product we can see on the 'net?
I'm not sure I know what these devices are . . .
Charge Dividers:
http://www.philippi-online.de/index.php5?url=produkte.php5
<http://www.philippi-online.de/index.php5?url=produkte.php5&m1id=2&sprache=e
n&kat1_nr=2&kat2_nr=2> &m1id=2&sprache=en&kat1_nr=2&kat2_nr=2
http://www.ludomcgurk.com/charge-divider-1-product-32.html
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 17:49
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What'w wrong with this circuit?
At 06:41 PM 6/26/2012, you wrote:
There are certainly "intelligent" charge dividers available
Can you cite such a product we can see on the 'net?
I'm not sure I know what these devices are . . .
but in this case I'm thinking about something much more "old-fashioned" -
like a couple of diodes in the output of the alternator which isolate the 2
batteries from each other. I will scribble a schematic when time permits.
You might wish to fold ideas in this article
into your deliberations.
http://tinyurl.com/77sf9sx
http://tinyurl.com/78lg7kf
http://tinyurl.com/7lhbbah
What value do you see for solid-state isolation of
batteries? What's the failure you're trying to
make tolerable? What are the cost, weight, energy
benefits ratios for diode isolation versus hard-contacts
isolation?
Bob . . .
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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| Subject: | What's wrong with this circuit? |
At 08:24 PM 6/26/2012, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>What's the failure you're trying to
> make tolerable?
>
>Mechanical failure of feed lines from a batt
>contactor to distribution panel (in instrument
>panel). One possibility: a lug cracking and
>breaking loose and going to ground. (I=92ve seen
>this one) I=92m sure I could dream-up a few other
>scenarios=85(likelihood is really the question)
But doesn't the dual feed e-bus take care of
this exceedingly unlikely scenario? A cracked
lug and/or bus going to ground speaks of poor
materials and craftsmanship. I've never seen this
become a worry to be addressed by design changes.
Dual batteries with and dual-feed e-bus pretty
much covers it . . . and doesn't hide anything
from the pilot by making failure mitigation
'automatic'. So just suppose the bus does go
dark? How long does it take to get on line with
an adequate suite of gear for continued flight
by flipping a couple of switches?
Just run electrically dependent engines from dual
sources, at least one of which is a battery bus.
Low volts light ON. Turn alternator off and
then exercise your plan-B designed to deal with
this event. The last high current feeder going
to ground I heard of at HBC was a King Air on
short final who was suddenly deprived of elevator
control.
Go-around was followed by un-eventful landing using
elevator trim. Found re-routed wire under co-pilot's
floorboard that rubbed against elevator cable. This
soft-fault eroded away the steel cable over many hours
of operation while doing little damage to the copper
wire. No smoke, no flashing lights, no smells . . .
It was one for the books. Bottom line is that
good craftsmanship with suitable materials makes
your fat-wires about as reliable as prop-bolts.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | What's wrong with this circuit? |
My comments are mixed in below.
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 18:56
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: What's wrong with this circuit?
At 08:24 PM 6/26/2012, you wrote:
Bob,
What's the failure you're trying to
make tolerable?
Mechanical failure of feed lines from a batt contactor to distribution panel
(in instrument panel). One possibility: a lug cracking and breaking loose
and going to ground. (I've seen this one) I'm sure I could dream-up a few
other scenarios.(likelihood is really the question)
But doesn't the dual feed e-bus take care of
this exceedingly unlikely scenario? A cracked
lug and/or bus going to ground speaks of poor
materials and craftsmanship. I've never seen this
become a worry to be addressed by design changes.
Dual batteries with and dual-feed e-bus pretty
much covers it
I don't think I'm totally convinced of the benefit of multiple busses, main
& essential. In my airplane almost everything is essential (except perhaps
lighting & a few accessories). My list of essential stuff: Electronic
Ignition, fuel pump, regulator, EFIS, at least one nav/com, transponder.
Everything else is either not used frequently (like pitot heat) or has very
minimal draw where a minute or two delay in turning-off the item is not
significant.
With the single main bus that is essentially wired like a UPS
(uninterruptible power supply) it seems simpler from an operational
standpoint.
. . . and doesn't hide anything
from the pilot by making failure mitigation 'automatic'.
Not to confuse automatic w/ unknown - In this scenario, the system would
produce a "Low Batt B Volts" alarm. (and a quick look at the Batt B
voltmeter would indicate not only low but zero).
So just suppose the bus does go
dark? How long does it take to get on line with
an adequate suite of gear for continued flight
by flipping a couple of switches?
Just run electrically dependent engines from dual
sources, at least one of which is a battery bus.
Low volts light ON. Turn alternator off and
then exercise your plan-B designed to deal with
this event. The last high current feeder going
to ground I heard of at HBC was a King Air on
short final who was suddenly deprived of elevator
control.
Go-around was followed by un-eventful landing using
elevator trim. Found re-routed wire under co-pilot's
floorboard that rubbed against elevator cable. This
soft-fault eroded away the steel cable over many hours
of operation while doing little damage to the copper
wire. No smoke, no flashing lights, no smells . . .
Un-authorized arc welding (while airborne), very scary!
It was one for the books. Bottom line is that
good craftsmanship with suitable materials makes
your fat-wires about as reliable as prop-bolts.
agree, there is no substitute for quality components properly installed.
Bob . . .
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin believes in Old Wive's Tales. |
I just find this whole "don't dare turn it on before the engine is started" argument
a little crazy.
Those who have flown the B767 and similar vintage big metal things will be familiar
with the significant CLUNK as engine generators come online and transfer
power, causing various lights and screens to blank, flicker and carry on spectacularly.
Or other effects when the APU generator comes online and takes over
from battery power.
Yet the 20+ year old comm radios and nav systems made by Collins, Honeywell, Garmin,
etc still survive these power transients, spikes, and surges. Excactly the
same goes for other large aircraft I've flown. Radios and nav gear were regularly
switched on, as a matter of necessity, before engine start. In almost 30
years of flying these things, I've never experience an avionics failure due
to power transients when engine-driven power sources have come online and assumed
the load!
This morbid fear, bordering on complete paranoia, of avionics being on before engine
start in the small-plane world is quite new to me!
--------
Mike
Your political opinions are noted. And ignored.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=376697#376697
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