AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 07/08/12


Total Messages Posted: 5



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:42 AM - IO-240 Starter (Owen Baker)
     2. 07:37 AM - Re: IO-240 Starter (F. Tim Yoder)
     3. 08:04 AM - Re: Re: Z12 Alternator Amps (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 08:41 PM - Re: Z12 Alternator Amps (RV7ASask)
     5. 08:48 PM - Bending ring terminals on superflex-battery cables... (Michael Burbidge)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:42:43 AM PST US
    From: "Owen Baker " <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: IO-240 Starter
    7/8/2012 Hello Tim, I was a bit surprised to read of your recent experience with a TCM provided starter for the IO-240 engine. I thought that all of those crappy TCM designed starters had long since failed and been purged from the field. That was a very ugly chapter in TCM=99s history when they tried to screw Bill Bainbridge of B&C by reverse engineering one of his starters when their original design proved to be a miserable failure. TCM was eventually forced to buy and install B&C starters at the factory on new engines being shipped. TCM agreed to pay for a B&C starter for my engine for me to install when I refused to accept their designed starter that had been shipped with my engine, IO-240 B9B Serial number 806236. If anyone else is still operating a TCM designed starter on their IO-240 (it takes some detail part number sleuthing to determine that) I strongly recommend switching to a B&C starter because the TCM designed starter can fail in a manner that will foul up the interior of the engine =93 big expense and some danger. I have extensive postings on this subject in my files (and there are probably also some in the Matronics archives) if anyone is interested in reviewing that history. OC =========== Time: 09:31:00 PM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter FYI for those who have this engine or a light weight TCM starter. Circa 1997. My IO-240 came with a TCM starter, Part # 654046 E. It failed at 475 hours. I had been told by a TCM tech. that even though it had a Cont tag on it, it was really made by B&C. I called B&C and made arrangements to send it to them for repair. After they received it the called to advise me that it was not one of theirs but a knockoff that Cont. had made. B&C didn't think that Cont. would repair theirs anymore. I did not check with Cont. because I decided I wanted one of B&C's. They sent me a new one and my old one at no shipping charge. In a side by side comparison, the B&C starter is much better built. There was a dramatic improvement in prop rotation speed by the starter. Tim


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:37:33 AM PST US
    From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com>
    Subject: Re: IO-240 Starter
    Hi OC, Obviously TCM new they had put one of their junk starters on my engine and didn't bother to make good on it. As I said before, they even told me it was a B&C after I gave them the part# and serial#. I must have come to the lists after your postings of the starter reports. Maybe there are a few others that haven't herd of the problem and this might help. Thanks to you and others, I have learned allot on these lists. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Owen Baker To: ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com ; aeroelectric-list@matronics.com ; KIS-LIST MATRONICS Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2012 6:40 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: IO-240 Starter 7/8/2012 Hello Tim, I was a bit surprised to read of your recent experience with a TCM provided starter for the IO-240 engine. I thought that all of those crappy TCM designed starters had long since failed and been purged from the field. That was a very ugly chapter in TCM=99s history when they tried to screw Bill Bainbridge of B&C by reverse engineering one of his starters when their original design proved to be a miserable failure. TCM was eventually forced to buy and install B&C starters at the factory on new engines being shipped. TCM agreed to pay for a B&C starter for my engine for me to install when I refused to accept their designed starter that had been shipped with my engine, IO-240 B9B Serial number 806236. If anyone else is still operating a TCM designed starter on their IO-240 (it takes some detail part number sleuthing to determine that) I strongly recommend switching to a B&C starter because the TCM designed starter can fail in a manner that will foul up the interior of the engine =93 big expense and some danger. I have extensive postings on this subject in my files (and there are probably also some in the Matronics archives) if anyone is interested in reviewing that history. OC =========== Time: 09:31:00 PM PST US From: "F. Tim Yoder" <ftyoder@yoderbuilt.com> Subject: KIS-List: IO-240 Starter FYI for those who have this engine or a light weight TCM starter. Circa 1997. My IO-240 came with a TCM starter, Part # 654046 E. It failed at 475 hours. I had been told by a TCM tech. that even though it had a Cont tag on it, it was really made by B&C. I called B&C and made arrangements to send it to them for repair. After they received it the called to advise me that it was not one of theirs but a knockoff that Cont. had made. B&C didn't think that Cont. would repair theirs anymore. I did not check with Cont. because I decided I wanted one of B&C's. They sent me a new one and my old one at no shipping charge. In a side by side comparison, the B&C starter is much better built. There was a dramatic improvement in prop rotation speed by the starter. Tim


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:04:47 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Z12 Alternator Amps
    At 11:26 PM 7/7/2012, you wrote: I went flying today and did an Aux alternator check as you suggested Bob. After turning most of the electrical load off, once again I was left with 8 amps and 14.4 volts on the Main Alternator. Cruising at 2400 RPM I selected the Main Alternator Off. Voltage dropped to 12.9 and the Aux Alternator came on line with a steady 12.9 volts. The amps then slowly climbed up to and settled down at 20 amps, more than double the reading of the Main? To the best of my knowledge everything is wired correctly. There's no reason for the currents to be that different. I'd forgotten about the lower setpoint for the standby regulator. 12.9 is a bit low, it should be about 1 volt lower than your main alternator regulator. 14.5 for main, 13.5 for aux. You say that the aux alternator amps 'climbed slowly' where did it start from? I'd tweak the aux alternator regulator up to 13.5 volts and see how the behavior changes. Sounds like the battery is taking on part of the aux loads and reduces its share as the terminal voltage drops. The aux alternator should support all ships loads up to 20A at some voltage just above that which will cause the battery to share the load. This has to be above 13.0 volts. Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:41:16 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Z12 Alternator Amps
    From: "RV7ASask" <rv7alamb@sasktel.net>
    Thanks Bob, You asked about the amps climbing slowly. When I switch the main alternator off and switch the amps monitor switch to Aux Alternator the Aux will show zero amps. As the Aux comes on line the amps slowly build from zero to 20 amps and it takes about 20 to 30 seconds. I am not sure if this is the Skyview indicating system or is the battery slowly allowing the load to be taken up by the alternator? I do not have the ability to monitor the amps being drawn by the battery as the two indicator inputs come off the shunts as per Z12. I will not be flying until the end of the week but I will adjust the aux regulator and let you know how the next test goes. Regards David Lamb Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=377702#377702


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:48:32 PM PST US
    From: Michael Burbidge <mburbidg@gmail.com>
    Subject: Bending ring terminals on superflex-battery cables...
    Is it acceptable to put a 90 degree bend in the ring terminals on the superflex-battery cables from B&C so that the cable attaches to terminals without tension? Michael-




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