Today's Message Index:
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1. 05:55 AM - Cooling Low Current Alternators (Jack Haviland)
2. 06:13 AM - Re: Which 55-60 amp alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:58 AM - Re: Which 55-60 amp alternator (Roger & Jean Curtis)
4. 07:01 AM - Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C (Valovich, Paul)
5. 07:18 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/14/12 (Steve Stearns)
6. 07:25 AM - Re: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C ()
7. 08:05 AM - Re: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C (Jared Yates)
8. 08:25 AM - Re: Which 55-60 amp alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 09:51 AM - Re: Which 55-60 amp alternator (B Tomm)
10. 01:38 PM - Re: Which 55-60 amp alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 03:27 PM - Which Crimp Tool (Bill Settle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Cooling Low Current Alternators |
Sometime ago, Van's Aircraft sold 30 - 35 amp rebuilt Honda Civic alternators (14184)
with the normal fan deleted since it would rotate the wrong way on a Lycoming.
They no longer sell them but "remanufactured" 14184 alternators with a
fan (and a "lifetime warranty") are readily available from Auto Zone. Is it preferable
to remove the fan or leave it on? Same question for the capacitor that
is on the Auto Zone unit.
When installed on an O-320 D1A, the aft end of the alternator is very close to
the No. 1 cylinder exhaust pipe. I'll be installing a shield to try to keep the
rectifier diodes cool (along with the blast tube I originally installed). Comments
from those who have experience with these low current alternators would
be appreciated.
JGH
RV6A w/ 100 hours
Message 2
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Subject: | Which 55-60 amp alternator |
You can run it internally regulated . . . you
could do a mod similar to that offered by Plane
Power for crowbar ov protection and external
control of field power.
I'm confused by the above statement. Does that not make it
externally controlled or is there a variation on a theme here? Is
there a document that describes the PP mod?
Let's make a distinction between internally and
externally REGULATED . . . which speaks to the
location of the electronics that exercises dynamic
control of field current for the purpose of
maintaining desired bus voltage. Then there's
a legacy design goal for any-time, any-conditions
control of alternator function by the pilot.
Referring you to an exemplar schematic for an
internally regulated alternator . . .
http://tinyurl.com/8a9uuns
the pathway in green shows how energy from the
battery makes it through a controlling device
(in this case, an N-channel FET) to the alternator
field. Note that both CONTROL and WARNING
functions (red) attach to electronics within
the regulator's circuitry. If something in that
circuitry fails or the FET shorts, then full
battery voltage is applied to the field, regulation
control is lost and you have an over-voltage
condition.
There's been a great deal of discussion in the past
as to the suitability of internally regulated alternators
on airplanes. I have always maintained that I could
not recommend the use of IR alternators because
they could not offer the legacy any-time, any-condition
control by the pilot -OR- an ov protection system
in their off-the-shelf configuration.
B&C's solution to the problem was to remove the
built in regulator and offer an external alternator
control system that included the functional trinity
for alternator management: Regulation, OV management,
LV warning.
Plane power went a different route and simply
broke the field supply path inside the alternator
and brought it out so that absolute, any-time
any conditions control was available to the pilot
-AND- ov protection could be easily implemented.
In this case, Plane Power elected to go with
the crowbar ov protection technique pioneered
in aircraft by yours truly. The concept was
slated to go onto the Beech 38P
http://tinyurl.com/7smb4k5
Unfortunately, that program never made it to
the production line. The last time I saw N336BA,
the fuselage was sitting outside Burt Rutan's
hangar at Mojave.
http://tinyurl.com/cj3n24a
Since that time, crowbar ov protection has
be successfully applied to thousands of installations
in dozens of aircraft.
If you want to convert an off-the-shelf
alternator to your use while embracing the legacy
design goals for engine driven power sources, you
have the option of doing the B&C thingy or the
Plane-Power thingy . . . either one works good
and lasts a long time.
I'm aware of no article which describes the PP
modification. It's difficult even to find local alternator
repair shops that could assist in making the
modifications . . . although it's usually pretty
simple to figure out once the alternator is cracked
open. There have been some articles that described
total bypassing of the internal regulator for going
the B&C approach . . . but I don't enjoy ready
recall for those documents. Perhaps somebody on
the List has a broader insight to your quest.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Which 55-60 amp alternator |
There have been some articles that described
total bypassing of the internal regulator for going
the B&C approach . . . but I don't enjoy ready
recall for those documents. Perhaps somebody on
the List has a broader insight to your quest.
Bob . . .
Here is an article published by EAA
for conversion of an internal regulated
to external regulated alternator.
http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp
Roger
Message 4
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Subject: | Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C |
I went through the same debate in choosing an alternator. Finally decided t
hat you really do get what you pay for and went with B&C.
No regrets - outstanding performance and customer service.
I have a continually updated mental list of things that might go wrong in f
light based on how my plane is currently performing. Alternator worries are
n't very high on the list (I used Bob's Z13/8 architecture with a B&C SD8 b
ackup).
Paul ValovicRV-8A N192NM
235 hours
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/14/12 |
Bevan,
Here's an option that might be a fit for you. See if you have a an
old-timer auto electric guy with a good reputation in your area. If so,
you can go to a local junk yard and buy a used older
externally-regulated alternator (40A to 60A) for not much money and
confirm how well it fits. If it fits well, take it to the local
auto-electric guy and have him test and, if necessary, rebuild it for you.
My LongEZ has an old 40A Toyota alternator that, when I got the
airplane, was fried (not to mention the previous owner had apparently
crudely tried to fix it). I took it in the local auto electric
old-timer and, upon looking at it, gave me a sly grin and said "What
kind of race car this come out of?". To which I replied somewhat
guiltily (knowing not to mention anything to do with aircraft if you
want the services of reasonable priced people), "it's off of a custom
off-road trike...". "What engine you got in it?" "It's a four cylinder
horizontally opposed, kind a like a Volkswagen...".
He did a beautiful job rebuilding it and it's worked great ever since.
Steve Stearns
Boulder/Longmont, Colorado
CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less)
Restoring (since 1/07) and flying again (8/11!): N45FC O235 Longeze
Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs)
Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D
On 8/15/2012 12:56 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
> RE: AeroElectric-List: Which 55-60 amp alternator
Message 6
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Subject: | Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C |
I agree, quality almost always pays for itself. I also use the Z13/8 and it's been
great. I've never had to go to backup but it's always nice knowing it's there.
Glenn Long
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 10:01 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C
I went through the same debate in choosing an alternator. Finally decided that
you really do get what you pay for and went with B&C.
No regrets - outstanding performance and customer service.
I have a continually updated mental list of things that might go wrong in flight
based on how my plane is currently performing. Alternator worries aren't very
high on the list (I used Bob's Z13/8 architecture with a B&C SD8 backup).
Paul ValovicRV-8A N192NM
235 hours
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C |
One time I politely asked the gentleman from B&C why his oil filter
adapter was so much more expensive than the others, and he pointed out
that while he doesn't strive to have the lowest price, he does believe
that he provides the best value. The theory is that you can buy one
of his products instead of two or three of the cheap ones, and save
money in the end. It sounded like a good argument to me, though I
didn't buy his alternator. I got one from Plane Power instead, and
from ACS it was around $350 for the whole package. That seemed like
good economy compared to trying to sort out the crowbar protection and
brackets for the Autozone version. I'm not flying yet, so it may take
a few hundred hours to see if the Plane Power decision ends up saving
money over the B&C. Compared to the auto parts store option, I know
I've already saved money over spending a few days trying to cut and
bend 1/4" steel brackets and opening up the back of the alternator to
get the wires fixed.
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:24 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote:
>
> I agree, quality almost always pays for itself. I also use the Z13/8 and it's
been great. I've never had to go to backup but it's always nice knowing it's
there.
>
> Glenn Long
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul
> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 10:01 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C
>
> I went through the same debate in choosing an alternator. Finally decided that
you really do get what you pay for and went with B&C.
>
> No regrets - outstanding performance and customer service.
>
> I have a continually updated mental list of things that might go wrong in flight
based on how my plane is currently performing. Alternator worries aren't very
high on the list (I used Bob's Z13/8 architecture with a B&C SD8 backup).
> Paul ValovicRV-8A N192NM
> 235 hours
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Which 55-60 amp alternator |
At 08:56 AM 8/15/2012, you wrote:
>There have been some articles that described
> total bypassing of the internal regulator for going
> the B&C approach . . . but I don't enjoy ready
> recall for those documents. Perhaps somebody on
> the List has a broader insight to your quest.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>Here is an article published by EAA
>
>for conversion of an internal regulated
>
>to external regulated alternator.
>
>
><http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp>http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp
Cool! I'd not seen that particular article. Thanks
for heads-up. A very good article that needed only a few minor
corrections. I've captured the article and mirrored
it with comments at:
http://tinyurl.com/crte9xe
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | Which 55-60 amp alternator |
Thanks everyone, we're getting very close here.
It is still unclear to me which 60 amp ND alternator to start with that will
fit the Van's mounting bracket (Boss mount?). What have other done?
Bevan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger &
Jean Curtis
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 6:57 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Which 55-60 amp alternator
There have been some articles that described
total bypassing of the internal regulator for going
the B&C approach . . . but I don't enjoy ready
recall for those documents. Perhaps somebody on
the List has a broader insight to your quest.
Bob . . .
Here is an article published by EAA
for conversion of an internal regulated
to external regulated alternator.
http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp
Roger
Message 10
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Subject: | Which 55-60 amp alternator |
At 11:50 AM 8/15/2012, you wrote:
>Thanks everyone, we're getting very close here.
>
>It is still unclear to me which 60 amp ND alternator to start with
>that will fit the Van's mounting bracket (Boss mount?). What have other done?
>
>Bevan
>
Here's a wild @#S guess. Here's a Lester #14935 that
fits 85-88 Tercels.
Emacs!
Oriley's offers this one for about $100. It's frame geometry
appears the same as the B&C L-60 and others popular with
the OBAM aviation market.
http://tinyurl.com/8vfkj66
If you've got the mount, you could go down to the local parts
store and fit check the alternator with the mount and measure
the offset from boss-mount bolt holes to the pulley centerline.
Of course, you need to find a new pulley too.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Which Crimp Tool |
I just purchased a nav light which came with metal pins for 22 awg wire as part
of an AMP-3SK connector kit. Can someone please direct me to the proper crimper
I need for this task?
Thanks,
Bill Settle
RV-8
Winston-Salem, NC
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