AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Wed 08/15/12


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:55 AM - Cooling Low Current Alternators (Jack Haviland)
     2. 06:13 AM - Re: Which 55-60 amp alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 06:58 AM - Re: Which 55-60 amp alternator (Roger & Jean Curtis)
     4. 07:01 AM - Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C (Valovich, Paul)
     5. 07:18 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/14/12 (Steve Stearns)
     6. 07:25 AM - Re: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C ()
     7. 08:05 AM - Re: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C (Jared Yates)
     8. 08:25 AM - Re: Which 55-60 amp alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 09:51 AM - Re: Which 55-60 amp alternator (B Tomm)
    10. 01:38 PM - Re: Which 55-60 amp alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 03:27 PM - Which Crimp Tool (Bill Settle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:55:34 AM PST US
    From: Jack Haviland <jghrv6a@gmail.com>
    Subject: Cooling Low Current Alternators
    Sometime ago, Van's Aircraft sold 30 - 35 amp rebuilt Honda Civic alternators (14184) with the normal fan deleted since it would rotate the wrong way on a Lycoming. They no longer sell them but "remanufactured" 14184 alternators with a fan (and a "lifetime warranty") are readily available from Auto Zone. Is it preferable to remove the fan or leave it on? Same question for the capacitor that is on the Auto Zone unit. When installed on an O-320 D1A, the aft end of the alternator is very close to the No. 1 cylinder exhaust pipe. I'll be installing a shield to try to keep the rectifier diodes cool (along with the blast tube I originally installed). Comments from those who have experience with these low current alternators would be appreciated. JGH RV6A w/ 100 hours


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:13:15 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Which 55-60 amp alternator
    You can run it internally regulated . . . you could do a mod similar to that offered by Plane Power for crowbar ov protection and external control of field power. I'm confused by the above statement. Does that not make it externally controlled or is there a variation on a theme here? Is there a document that describes the PP mod? Let's make a distinction between internally and externally REGULATED . . . which speaks to the location of the electronics that exercises dynamic control of field current for the purpose of maintaining desired bus voltage. Then there's a legacy design goal for any-time, any-conditions control of alternator function by the pilot. Referring you to an exemplar schematic for an internally regulated alternator . . . http://tinyurl.com/8a9uuns the pathway in green shows how energy from the battery makes it through a controlling device (in this case, an N-channel FET) to the alternator field. Note that both CONTROL and WARNING functions (red) attach to electronics within the regulator's circuitry. If something in that circuitry fails or the FET shorts, then full battery voltage is applied to the field, regulation control is lost and you have an over-voltage condition. There's been a great deal of discussion in the past as to the suitability of internally regulated alternators on airplanes. I have always maintained that I could not recommend the use of IR alternators because they could not offer the legacy any-time, any-condition control by the pilot -OR- an ov protection system in their off-the-shelf configuration. B&C's solution to the problem was to remove the built in regulator and offer an external alternator control system that included the functional trinity for alternator management: Regulation, OV management, LV warning. Plane power went a different route and simply broke the field supply path inside the alternator and brought it out so that absolute, any-time any conditions control was available to the pilot -AND- ov protection could be easily implemented. In this case, Plane Power elected to go with the crowbar ov protection technique pioneered in aircraft by yours truly. The concept was slated to go onto the Beech 38P http://tinyurl.com/7smb4k5 Unfortunately, that program never made it to the production line. The last time I saw N336BA, the fuselage was sitting outside Burt Rutan's hangar at Mojave. http://tinyurl.com/cj3n24a Since that time, crowbar ov protection has be successfully applied to thousands of installations in dozens of aircraft. If you want to convert an off-the-shelf alternator to your use while embracing the legacy design goals for engine driven power sources, you have the option of doing the B&C thingy or the Plane-Power thingy . . . either one works good and lasts a long time. I'm aware of no article which describes the PP modification. It's difficult even to find local alternator repair shops that could assist in making the modifications . . . although it's usually pretty simple to figure out once the alternator is cracked open. There have been some articles that described total bypassing of the internal regulator for going the B&C approach . . . but I don't enjoy ready recall for those documents. Perhaps somebody on the List has a broader insight to your quest. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:58:00 AM PST US
    From: "Roger & Jean Curtis" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: Which 55-60 amp alternator
    There have been some articles that described total bypassing of the internal regulator for going the B&C approach . . . but I don't enjoy ready recall for those documents. Perhaps somebody on the List has a broader insight to your quest. Bob . . . Here is an article published by EAA for conversion of an internal regulated to external regulated alternator. http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp Roger


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:01:07 AM PST US
    From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
    Subject: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C
    I went through the same debate in choosing an alternator. Finally decided t hat you really do get what you pay for and went with B&C. No regrets - outstanding performance and customer service. I have a continually updated mental list of things that might go wrong in f light based on how my plane is currently performing. Alternator worries are n't very high on the list (I used Bob's Z13/8 architecture with a B&C SD8 b ackup). Paul ValovicRV-8A N192NM 235 hours


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:18:31 AM PST US
    From: Steve Stearns <steve@tomasara.com>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/14/12
    Bevan, Here's an option that might be a fit for you. See if you have a an old-timer auto electric guy with a good reputation in your area. If so, you can go to a local junk yard and buy a used older externally-regulated alternator (40A to 60A) for not much money and confirm how well it fits. If it fits well, take it to the local auto-electric guy and have him test and, if necessary, rebuild it for you. My LongEZ has an old 40A Toyota alternator that, when I got the airplane, was fried (not to mention the previous owner had apparently crudely tried to fix it). I took it in the local auto electric old-timer and, upon looking at it, gave me a sly grin and said "What kind of race car this come out of?". To which I replied somewhat guiltily (knowing not to mention anything to do with aircraft if you want the services of reasonable priced people), "it's off of a custom off-road trike...". "What engine you got in it?" "It's a four cylinder horizontally opposed, kind a like a Volkswagen...". He did a beautiful job rebuilding it and it's worked great ever since. Steve Stearns Boulder/Longmont, Colorado CSA,EAA,IAC,AOPA,PE,ARRL,BARC (but ignorant none-the-less) Restoring (since 1/07) and flying again (8/11!): N45FC O235 Longeze Cothern/Friling CF1 (~1000 Hrs) Flying (since 9/86): N43732 A65 Taylorcraft BC12D On 8/15/2012 12:56 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: > RE: AeroElectric-List: Which 55-60 amp alternator


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:25:22 AM PST US
    From: <longg@pjm.com>
    Subject: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C
    I agree, quality almost always pays for itself. I also use the Z13/8 and it's been great. I've never had to go to backup but it's always nice knowing it's there. Glenn Long -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 10:01 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C I went through the same debate in choosing an alternator. Finally decided that you really do get what you pay for and went with B&C. No regrets - outstanding performance and customer service. I have a continually updated mental list of things that might go wrong in flight based on how my plane is currently performing. Alternator worries aren't very high on the list (I used Bob's Z13/8 architecture with a B&C SD8 backup). Paul ValovicRV-8A N192NM 235 hours


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:05:16 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C
    From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
    One time I politely asked the gentleman from B&C why his oil filter adapter was so much more expensive than the others, and he pointed out that while he doesn't strive to have the lowest price, he does believe that he provides the best value. The theory is that you can buy one of his products instead of two or three of the cheap ones, and save money in the end. It sounded like a good argument to me, though I didn't buy his alternator. I got one from Plane Power instead, and from ACS it was around $350 for the whole package. That seemed like good economy compared to trying to sort out the crowbar protection and brackets for the Autozone version. I'm not flying yet, so it may take a few hundred hours to see if the Plane Power decision ends up saving money over the B&C. Compared to the auto parts store option, I know I've already saved money over spending a few days trying to cut and bend 1/4" steel brackets and opening up the back of the alternator to get the wires fixed. On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 10:24 AM, <longg@pjm.com> wrote: > > I agree, quality almost always pays for itself. I also use the Z13/8 and it's been great. I've never had to go to backup but it's always nice knowing it's there. > > Glenn Long > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 10:01 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Don't Want to Pay BigBucks for B&C > > I went through the same debate in choosing an alternator. Finally decided that you really do get what you pay for and went with B&C. > > No regrets - outstanding performance and customer service. > > I have a continually updated mental list of things that might go wrong in flight based on how my plane is currently performing. Alternator worries aren't very high on the list (I used Bob's Z13/8 architecture with a B&C SD8 backup). > Paul ValovicRV-8A N192NM > 235 hours > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:25:30 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Which 55-60 amp alternator
    At 08:56 AM 8/15/2012, you wrote: >There have been some articles that described > total bypassing of the internal regulator for going > the B&C approach . . . but I don't enjoy ready > recall for those documents. Perhaps somebody on > the List has a broader insight to your quest. > > > Bob . . . > >Here is an article published by EAA > >for conversion of an internal regulated > >to external regulated alternator. > > ><http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp>http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp Cool! I'd not seen that particular article. Thanks for heads-up. A very good article that needed only a few minor corrections. I've captured the article and mirrored it with comments at: http://tinyurl.com/crte9xe Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:51:48 AM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: Which 55-60 amp alternator
    Thanks everyone, we're getting very close here. It is still unclear to me which 60 amp ND alternator to start with that will fit the Van's mounting bracket (Boss mount?). What have other done? Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger & Jean Curtis Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 6:57 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Which 55-60 amp alternator There have been some articles that described total bypassing of the internal regulator for going the B&C approach . . . but I don't enjoy ready recall for those documents. Perhaps somebody on the List has a broader insight to your quest. Bob . . . Here is an article published by EAA for conversion of an internal regulated to external regulated alternator. http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-09_howto_alternator.asp Roger


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:38:47 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Which 55-60 amp alternator
    At 11:50 AM 8/15/2012, you wrote: >Thanks everyone, we're getting very close here. > >It is still unclear to me which 60 amp ND alternator to start with >that will fit the Van's mounting bracket (Boss mount?). What have other done? > >Bevan > Here's a wild @#S guess. Here's a Lester #14935 that fits 85-88 Tercels. Emacs! Oriley's offers this one for about $100. It's frame geometry appears the same as the B&C L-60 and others popular with the OBAM aviation market. http://tinyurl.com/8vfkj66 If you've got the mount, you could go down to the local parts store and fit check the alternator with the mount and measure the offset from boss-mount bolt holes to the pulley centerline. Of course, you need to find a new pulley too. Bob . . .


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:27:33 PM PST US
    From: Bill Settle <billsettle@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Which Crimp Tool
    I just purchased a nav light which came with metal pins for 22 awg wire as part of an AMP-3SK connector kit. Can someone please direct me to the proper crimper I need for this task? Thanks, Bill Settle RV-8 Winston-Salem, NC




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