AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Thu 08/16/12


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:24 AM - Re: Which Crimp Tool (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 06:27 AM - Mooney Alternator woes (Ralph E. Capen)
     3. 06:45 AM - Re: Mooney Alternator woes (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 06:55 AM - Re: Mooney Alternator woes (Kelly McMullen)
     5. 07:04 AM - Re: Mooney Alternator woes (Ralph E. Capen)
     6. 07:04 AM - Re: Mooney Alternator woes (Ralph E. Capen)
     7. 07:43 AM - Shorai Battery Review (Christopher Cee Stone)
     8. 01:45 PM - Should battery be charged with a higher voltage? (user9253)
     9. 02:45 PM - Re: Shorai Battery Review (John MacCallum)
    10. 05:56 PM - Schumacher 1562a (John & Sue Dehnert)
    11. 07:19 PM - Re: Schumacher 1562a (Robert Borger)
    12. 07:57 PM - Re: Schumacher 1562a (Bob McCallum)
    13. 08:52 PM - Re: Shorai Battery Review (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    14. 09:05 PM - Re: Should battery be charged with a higher voltage? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    15. 09:11 PM - Re: Should battery be charged with a higher voltage? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:24:16 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Which Crimp Tool
    At 05:24 PM 8/15/2012, you wrote: >I just purchased a nav light which came with metal pins for 22 awg >wire as part of an AMP-3SK connector kit. Can someone please direct >me to the proper crimper I need for this task? http://tinyurl.com/9m5mvfy http://tinyurl.com/9c444zm Bob . . .


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:27:55 AM PST US
    From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Mooney Alternator woes
    My hangar neighbor is trying to figure out why his alternator occasionally drops off line - requiring a weird reset sequence. He has to shut off the battery and field, then go to a low power setting and bring it back up again. Something about resetting an overvoltage protection device. It is an M20S with Cont 550 and gear driven alternator. The first regulator lasted only a couple of years before giving up the ghost and the replacement was a special from Mooney. My first line of thinking is to locate the regulator and test it. Nobody knows where it is hiding. (I'm in DC - the plane is in DE...I'll be home next weekend to help more.) Meanwhile, does anyone have an electronic copy of the Light Plane Maintenance article on troubleshooting alternators...and the Mooney M20S maintenance manual? If we can find it, I'm hoping that we can determine if the regulator is the culprit. Thanks in advance, Ralph RV6A N822AR in N06 - waiting for my engine/prop to come back from overhaul after being hit by a flying hangar door!


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:45:06 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Mooney Alternator woes
    At 08:27 AM 8/16/2012, you wrote: <recapen@earthlink.net> My hangar neighbor is trying to figure out why his alternator occasionally drops off line - requiring a weird reset sequence. He has to shut off the battery and field, then go to a low power setting and bring it back up again. Something about resetting an overvoltage protection device. It is an M20S with Cont 550 and gear driven alternator. The first regulator lasted only a couple of years before giving up the ghost and the replacement was a special from Mooney. My first line of thinking is to locate the regulator and test it. Nobody knows where it is hiding. (I'm in DC - the plane is in DE...I'll be home next weekend to help more.) Meanwhile, does anyone have an electronic copy of the Light Plane Maintenance article on troubleshooting alternators...and the Mooney M20S maintenance manual? If we can find it, I'm hoping that we can determine if the regulator is the culprit. If it takes a southern Slobovian switch-dance to bring it back on line, it's almost certain to be something electronic. Is the successful reset sequence something different than what is called for in the POH as a response to an OV trip? I've not had any contact with Mooney in 25+ years. I bid an alternator controller for them while at Electro-Mech . . . we didn't get the job. I think Electrodelta out of White Oak, TX got it. It would have been a Mooney-unique product. ED has changed hands and/or moved several times over the years. The guy who ran ED is still hanging around the Wichita area. He MIGHT be a resource for help wrestling with your problem. The LPM article is not likely to be much help. It will be VERY generic. If it were my airplane, I'd jeep another regulator in place of the original to see if the problem goes away. Given the rarity of that regulator, I'd probably go for a one-time STC to install something more contemporary and available. There's nothing magic about alternator controllers . . . only the institutionalized and market driven B.S. in which they reside. B&C regulators are used elsewhere on current production airplanes . . . the FAA might look kindly upon substitution of B&C product for what's already installed. Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:55:14 AM PST US
    From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
    Subject: Re: Mooney Alternator woes
    There are a couple Mooney email lists that have experts that likely can help, including factory tech support. The S model isn't all that old, so there should be good info available. Mapalist mailing list..which requires membership in MAPA. Mapalist@lists.mooneypilots.com <mailto:Mapalist@lists.mooneypilots.com> http://lists.mooneypilots.com/listinfo.cgi/mapalist-mooneypilots.com <http://lists.mooneypilots.com/listinfo.cgi/mapalist-mooneypilots.com> Mooney Tech list which is open to all: http://lists.aviating.com/mailman/listinfo/mooney-tech, mailto:mooney-tech-request@aviating.com?subject=subscribe On 8/16/2012 6:44 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 08:27 AM 8/16/2012, you wrote: > <recapen@earthlink.net> > > My hangar neighbor is trying to figure out why his alternator > occasionally drops off line - requiring a weird reset sequence. He has > to shut off the battery and field, then go to a low power setting and > bring it back up again. Something about resetting an overvoltage > protection device. > > It is an M20S with Cont 550 and gear driven alternator. The first > regulator lasted only a couple of years before giving up the ghost and > the replacement was a special from Mooney. > > My first line of thinking is to locate the regulator and test it. > Nobody knows where it is hiding. > (I'm in DC - the plane is in DE...I'll be home next weekend to help > more.) > > Meanwhile, does anyone have an electronic copy of the Light Plane > Maintenance article on troubleshooting alternators...and the Mooney > M20S maintenance manual? > > If we can find it, I'm hoping that we can determine if the regulator > is the culprit. > > If it takes a southern Slobovian switch-dance to > bring it back on line, it's almost certain to be > something electronic. Is the successful reset sequence > something different than what is called for in the > POH as a response to an OV trip? > > I've not had any contact with Mooney in 25+ years. I > bid an alternator controller for them while at > Electro-Mech . . . we didn't get the job. I think > Electrodelta out of White Oak, TX got it. It would > have been a Mooney-unique product. ED has changed > hands and/or moved several times over the years. > The guy who ran ED is still hanging around the > Wichita area. He MIGHT be a resource for help > wrestling with your problem. > > The LPM article is not likely to be much help. It > will be VERY generic. If it were my airplane, I'd > jeep another regulator in place of the original to > see if the problem goes away. Given the rarity of > that regulator, I'd probably go for a one-time > STC to install something more contemporary and > available. There's nothing magic about alternator > controllers . . . only the institutionalized and > market driven B.S. in which they reside. > > B&C regulators are used elsewhere on current production > airplanes . . . the FAA might look kindly upon > substitution of B&C product for what's already > installed. > > > Bob . . . > > ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:04:04 AM PST US
    From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Mooney Alternator woes
    Thanks - first step is find the installed regulator. I could probably sub-in the B&C one from my 6A on a temp basis to see if it works - that'll be a good starting place...good idea. I'll ask about the reset sequence to see if it is in the POH. -----Original Message----- >From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >Sent: Aug 16, 2012 9:44 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mooney Alternator woes > > >At 08:27 AM 8/16/2012, you wrote: ><recapen@earthlink.net> > >My hangar neighbor is trying to figure out why his alternator >occasionally drops off line - requiring a weird reset sequence. He >has to shut off the battery and field, then go to a low power setting >and bring it back up again. Something about resetting an overvoltage >protection device. > >It is an M20S with Cont 550 and gear driven alternator. The first >regulator lasted only a couple of years before giving up the ghost >and the replacement was a special from Mooney. > >My first line of thinking is to locate the regulator and test >it. Nobody knows where it is hiding. >(I'm in DC - the plane is in DE...I'll be home next weekend to help more.) > >Meanwhile, does anyone have an electronic copy of the Light Plane >Maintenance article on troubleshooting alternators...and the Mooney >M20S maintenance manual? > >If we can find it, I'm hoping that we can determine if the regulator >is the culprit. > > If it takes a southern Slobovian switch-dance to > bring it back on line, it's almost certain to be > something electronic. Is the successful reset sequence > something different than what is called for in the > POH as a response to an OV trip? > > I've not had any contact with Mooney in 25+ years. I > bid an alternator controller for them while at > Electro-Mech . . . we didn't get the job. I think > Electrodelta out of White Oak, TX got it. It would > have been a Mooney-unique product. ED has changed > hands and/or moved several times over the years. > The guy who ran ED is still hanging around the > Wichita area. He MIGHT be a resource for help > wrestling with your problem. > > The LPM article is not likely to be much help. It > will be VERY generic. If it were my airplane, I'd > jeep another regulator in place of the original to > see if the problem goes away. Given the rarity of > that regulator, I'd probably go for a one-time > STC to install something more contemporary and > available. There's nothing magic about alternator > controllers . . . only the institutionalized and > market driven B.S. in which they reside. > > B&C regulators are used elsewhere on current production > airplanes . . . the FAA might look kindly upon > substitution of B&C product for what's already > installed. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:04:59 AM PST US
    From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Mooney Alternator woes
    Thanks - we'll sign up for them as a resource. -----Original Message----- >From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> >Sent: Aug 16, 2012 9:54 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mooney Alternator woes > > >There are a couple Mooney email lists that have experts that likely can >help, including factory tech support. The S model isn't all that old, so >there should be good info available. >Mapalist mailing list..which requires membership in MAPA. >Mapalist@lists.mooneypilots.com <mailto:Mapalist@lists.mooneypilots.com> >http://lists.mooneypilots.com/listinfo.cgi/mapalist-mooneypilots.com ><http://lists.mooneypilots.com/listinfo.cgi/mapalist-mooneypilots.com> > >Mooney Tech list which is open to all: >http://lists.aviating.com/mailman/listinfo/mooney-tech, >mailto:mooney-tech-request@aviating.com?subject=subscribe > >On 8/16/2012 6:44 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >> >> At 08:27 AM 8/16/2012, you wrote: >> <recapen@earthlink.net> >> >> My hangar neighbor is trying to figure out why his alternator >> occasionally drops off line - requiring a weird reset sequence. He has >> to shut off the battery and field, then go to a low power setting and >> bring it back up again. Something about resetting an overvoltage >> protection device. >> >> It is an M20S with Cont 550 and gear driven alternator. The first >> regulator lasted only a couple of years before giving up the ghost and >> the replacement was a special from Mooney. >> >> My first line of thinking is to locate the regulator and test it. >> Nobody knows where it is hiding. >> (I'm in DC - the plane is in DE...I'll be home next weekend to help >> more.) >> >> Meanwhile, does anyone have an electronic copy of the Light Plane >> Maintenance article on troubleshooting alternators...and the Mooney >> M20S maintenance manual? >> >> If we can find it, I'm hoping that we can determine if the regulator >> is the culprit. >> >> If it takes a southern Slobovian switch-dance to >> bring it back on line, it's almost certain to be >> something electronic. Is the successful reset sequence >> something different than what is called for in the >> POH as a response to an OV trip? >> >> I've not had any contact with Mooney in 25+ years. I >> bid an alternator controller for them while at >> Electro-Mech . . . we didn't get the job. I think >> Electrodelta out of White Oak, TX got it. It would >> have been a Mooney-unique product. ED has changed >> hands and/or moved several times over the years. >> The guy who ran ED is still hanging around the >> Wichita area. He MIGHT be a resource for help >> wrestling with your problem. >> >> The LPM article is not likely to be much help. It >> will be VERY generic. If it were my airplane, I'd >> jeep another regulator in place of the original to >> see if the problem goes away. Given the rarity of >> that regulator, I'd probably go for a one-time >> STC to install something more contemporary and >> available. There's nothing magic about alternator >> controllers . . . only the institutionalized and >> market driven B.S. in which they reside. >> >> B&C regulators are used elsewhere on current production >> airplanes . . . the FAA might look kindly upon >> substitution of B&C product for what's already >> installed. >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> > > >----- >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:43:08 AM PST US
    Subject: Shorai Battery Review
    From: Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator@gmail.com>
    Bob et al, These Shorai batteries are gaining market share in the motorcycle sphere. Still only anecdotal info as to their safety, longevity and failure modes. That being said, at 25% of the weight of AGM lead batteries for the same capacity they offer real advancement in energy storage. As the numbers in service increase in the ground transport market more experiential data should become available. Chris Stone RV-8 Newberg, OR ** ** ** ** ** **


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:45:34 PM PST US
    Subject: Should battery be charged with a higher voltage?
    From: "user9253" <fran4sew@banyanol.com>
    An RV-12 owner recently asked a question on VansAirforce about the charging voltage for the Odyssey PC680 battery. It seems that all of the voltage regulators that come with the Rotax 912 are factory set at 13.6 - 13.8 volts. The regulators are sealed; thus no adjustment is possible. This RV-12 owner wanted to know if the battery should be charged with a higher voltage. So I did some testing. I charged up my PC680, and then disconnected the battery charger on Tuesday. On Wednesday I measured the battery voltage with no load. My cheap meter read 13.01 volts and my Fluke read 13.09 volts. Then I went flying, did some touch & goes and gave a couple of rides. A total of 1.75 hours accumulated on the Hobbs and the engine was started a total of 6 times during the day. The starter uses very little power because the engine starts with only one revolution of the prop. The longest flight was about 30 minutes. At cruise, the Dynon D-180 indicated the normal 13.6 volts (which is 0.2 less than what my handheld voltmeter reads.) The next day, Thursday, I measured the no-load PC680 voltage: my cheap meter read 12.98 and the Fluke read 13.06 volts. The Odyssey Owner's Manual http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-OM-010_0412.pdf says that the battery is 100 percent fully charged when the open circuit voltage is 12.84 or higher. Since my battery voltage is above 12.84, I have come to the conclusion that the Rotax voltage regulator setting of 13.6 - 13.8 is adequate for normal operations. If the battery is ever discharged for some reason, I intend to fully charge it before flying. Have I come to the correct conclusion about the regulator setting? Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381033#381033


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:45:27 PM PST US
    From: "John MacCallum" <john.maccallum@bigpond.com>
    Subject: Shorai Battery Review
    They certainly look and sound the part but Lithium Batteries are prone to catching fire that is why there is a prohibition on transporting Them in the holds of Aircraft. The other thing to mention is that such a light battery will alter your C of G position so you would need to re-do your weight and balance Chart. So maybe more info and a bit more testing or time may be required to establish their safety.. Cheers John MacCallum VH-DUU RV 10 # 41016 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Cee Stone Sent: Friday, 17 August 2012 12:42 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shorai Battery Review Bob et al, These Shorai batteries are gaining market share in the motorcycle sphere. Still only anecdotal info as to their safety, longevity and failure modes. That being said, at 25% of the weight of AGM lead batteries for the same capacity they offer real advancement in energy storage. As the numbers in service increase in the ground transport market more experiential data should become available. Chris Stone RV-8 Newberg, OR


    Message 10


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    Time: 05:56:45 PM PST US
    From: "John & Sue Dehnert" <bankshire@harboursat.com.au>
    Subject: Schumacher 1562a
    Hi all have an off subject question, will the Schumacher 1562a charger maintainer available on Amazon work on the Australian voltage of 240v ac, Schumacher specifications state input voltage 110-140v ac. Thanks for any input on the subject . John


    Message 11


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    Time: 07:19:55 PM PST US
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    Subject: Re: Schumacher 1562a
    John, Probably not without a step-down transformer/voltage converter. If you can't find a charger-maintainer for your 240v world, you can find voltage converters on Amazon or E-Bay. Best regards, Robert Borger, President Geowhiziks & Doodlebugging, Inc. Certified Petroleum Geophysicist AAPG#101 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 (H) 940-497-2123 (C) 817-992-1117 Sent from my iPad On Aug 16, 2012, at 18:55, John & Sue Dehnert <bankshire@harboursat.com.au> wrote: Hi all have an off subject question, will the Schumacher 1562a charger maintainer available on Amazon work on the Australian voltage of 240v ac, Schumacher specifications state input voltage 110-140v ac. Thanks for any input on the subject . John


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:57:11 PM PST US
    From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: Schumacher 1562a
    John; The international version is model SC1200A, spec sheet attached. (I hope) Couldn't find a quick source or price, but this is a similar charger other than the input is 120-240VAC 50/60Hz The 1562a is 120VAC 60Hz only. Bob McC _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John & Sue Dehnert Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 8:55 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Schumacher 1562a Hi all have an off subject question, will the Schumacher 1562a charger maintainer available on Amazon work on the Australian voltage of 240v ac, Schumacher specifications state input voltage 110-140v ac. Thanks for any input on the subject . John


    Message 13


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    Time: 08:52:44 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Shorai Battery Review
    At 09:41 AM 8/16/2012, you wrote: >Bob et al, > >These Shorai batteries are gaining market share in the motorcycle >sphere. Still only anecdotal info as to their safety, longevity and >failure modes. > >That being said, at 25% of the weight of AGM lead batteries for the >same capacity they offer real advancement in energy storage. > >As the numbers in service increase in the ground transport market >more experiential data should become available. They are certainly impressive in terms of performance but not yet ready for prime time in the TC aircraft world. Check the List archives for 5/10 to 5/15 of last year and the term "lithium battery". Cessna spent a bucket of money on a Li-FePOH battery STC and had 50+ airplanes in the field when they experienced a ramp fire on one of the lithium installations. I'd like to run one in a car . . . or motorcycle but I don't think I'd put one in an airplane yet. Bob . . .


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:05:53 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Should battery be charged with a higher voltage?
    > > Have I come to the correct conclusion about the regulator setting? >Joe Yes. A SVLA battery will always charge to 100% of capacity with a 13.6 to 13.8 volt bus. The reason bus voltages are set higher is to shorten a cycle time for recharge after a deep discharge. But if you always take off with a very lightly taxed battery then the lower set point is fine. Bob . . .


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:11:17 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Should battery be charged with a higher voltage?
    From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
    Hi Joe I have a Rotax 914 not yet flying. I am going to raise the effective set-point on my Ducati regulator to make my Odyssey PC545 battery a little happier. Add a diode: http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId545 Read the manual on Odyssey: http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files.htm Click documentation, you will see that a little higher is desirable. Ron P.




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