---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/25/12: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:11 AM - Good news . . . and bad news (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 10:20 AM - Re: Need Help Troubleshooting (Steve Thomas) 3. 11:30 AM - Fw: Terminal Tool (Ronald Cox) 4. 12:06 PM - Re: Fw: Terminal Tool (stearman456) 5. 12:53 PM - Re: Need Help Troubleshooting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 02:37 PM - Re: Need Help Troubleshooting (Steve Thomas) 7. 07:24 PM - Re: Looking to Buy a Stein Air Large Terminal Crimping Tool (Bill Schoen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:43 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Good news . . . and bad news I picked up the latest version of Schumacher's SEC1562 charger at Wallyworld last week. Got it on a site-to-store free of shipping charges for about $21. The first plot for a charge cycle demonstrated the highly recommended bulk charge ramp capped off with an absorption charge plateau. http://tinyurl.com/9s7kpww I did a series of charge discharge cycles alternating between the 1562 and my 10+ year old Battery Tender. Wasn't paying much attention to details of the data. Each test cycle took 14+ hours. When I merged the data on to a common plot, it became obvious that the test battery, while relatively young, was incapable of delivering closely matched pairs of charge/discharge cycle. Normally, one expects a new SVLA battery to be good for several dozen deep discharges before demonstrated capacity begins to fall. Not so with the test article I've been using. Test results: I'm unable to resolve the difference between recharge performance of the 1562 versus the BT. Both chargers seem to put about as much snort into the battery but any real differences are buried in the uncertainties generated by the degrading battery. I can confidently assert that the SEM51562 is still an exceptional value. It now features 6/12 auto-switching, it charges at a rate about 2x that of the Battery Tender. I see that the BT Jr sells on Ebay for about $25 with free shipping, so cost differential has dropped markedly over the past few years. Conclusion: I cannot claim that one device is superior to the other based on measurements. The recharge voltage profiles for the BT are markedly shy of the idealized profiles cited by industry. Just how much difference it makes remains unmeasured. Using a chemical conversation system as a 'transfer standard' for evaluation of charger performance is fraught with risk . . . which rose up and bit me. Anywho, I've got a shiny new 1562 that's going out to the wood shop to maintain some batteries I have stored out there. Next time I get my hands on a fresh, mid-sized SLVA battery, I'll try again. Don't throw out your Battery Tenders! I'm keeping all three of mine. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:18 AM PST US From: Steve Thomas Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need Help Troubleshooting I should have been more specific. What I have is a Mazda 2 rotor with two 70 amp alternators. The batteries, two each, are Panasonic LC-RD 1217P. I never start with the cross-feed closed. In fact, I don't ever recall ever using the cross-feed. The starter is connected to system 1, the system that is now failing. The last start, while running the test, was sharp and crisp. The alternators are Bosh with the internal regulators removed. The split of devices running on each system is well known, but I don't see the relevance. The cross-feed is a backup position that, until now, has not been needed. And, since I was in the pattern when it failed, there was no need to engage - even if I had remembered. I don't know the RPMs of the alternators at idle, but, it was working fine. Steve Thomas ________________________________________________________________________ On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:42 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > At 02:41 PM 9/24/2012, you wrote: > > I've got a situation that appeared rather suddenly and I'm not sure where to start. I was doing some tough-n-goes the other day when one of my low voltage lights started flashing on downwind. > > I've got a dual electrical system based on Z-14 with two LR3C-14s installed. For the last 60 hours, everything has been running perfect. I fire up the engine and I get 2 readings of 14.2 volts at idle. Suddenly, one of the systems will not deliver any alternator voltage at idle. If I bring the engine back to idle at any point, whether it be on the ground or in the air, the voltage drops to 12.2 and begins a slow fall from there. As I increase the RPMs, the voltage again rises to 14.2. The second system holds 14.2 volts the entire time. > > Do you not know which of the two systems is > powered by the SD-20 and which is powered by > the main alternator? > > Is there a way to figure out whether my problem is with the LR3C-14 or with the alternator itself? Or possibly with my field circuit breaker? Or with the alternator switch? I haven't a clue where to even begin. Suggestions welcome. > > I'm not sure anything is wrong. The SD-20 alternator > is DE-RATED to 20A due to limitations in RPM available > at the vacuum pump pad. The alternator begins life as > a 40A ND which is disassembled for salvage of useful > components and reassembled with new front end bell, > shaft mods, sheer coupling and removal of built in > regulator. > > Borrowing from the B&C website we see this data > table: > > > > Assuming 1:1.4 step up gearing for the vacuum > pump pad, a ramp taxi RPM of say 1000 yields > alternator RPM of 1400 where it can be > expected to deliver less than 15A. If bus > loads on the Aux alternator are significant, > bus voltage on that side can be expected to > drop below 13.0v warning value and the battery > will be expected to pick up some slack at voltages > similar to those you cited. > > I would recommend that ground ops be conducted > with the cross-feed contactor closed except to > check Aux Alternator output during pre-flight > run up. After take off, add "Cross-feed Contactor-OPEN" > to your post departure checklist. You would also > reclose the cross-feed contactor during pre-landing > checklist. > > The fact that you USED to get 14.2 at ground idle > before suggests that the cross-feed contactor > was closed. Now that you're seeing this disparity > of voltage between the two busses suggests that > the cross-feed contactor is open and the Aux > Alternator is performing pretty much as expected. > > I wonder if -either- you've changed your modus > operandi for cross-feed management -or- the contactor > has become unavailable for some reason. > > In any case, you should KNOW which of the two > alternators is used to power which suite of goodies > on the panel. This is an essential component of > plan-B development for operations with the Main > Alternator crapped. > > Bob . . . > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:30:22 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fwd: Terminal Tool From: Ronald Cox (Apologies for the first one which quoted the entire Digest... Inadvertently sent before I cleaned it up...) A friend of mine (one of my copilots) designed this, and it works absolutely perfectly. Needs a vise too, but I've made quite a few perfect crimps on my big cables with production serial number 1. Check it out. http://www.theterminaltool.com/ All US-Made components, too. I bought the hydraulic Harbor Freight tool, too, and it works OK for portability, but this thing makes much nicer crimps by far. They look factory-made. Ron Cox Glasair Super II F/T > Time: 03:11:55 PM PST US > From: Peter Pengilly > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking to Buy a Stein Air Large Terminal Crimping > Tool > > > Have you tried Bob Avery at Avery Tools? Try > > http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=461 > > http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=TT5000 > > Peter > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:03 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fwd: Terminal Tool From: "stearman456" Thanks, Ron - that's EXACTLY the tool I was looking for. Just ordered one from him! Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383988#383988 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:35 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need Help Troubleshooting At 12:18 PM 9/25/2012, you wrote: >I should have been more specific. What I have is a Mazda 2 rotor >with two 70 amp alternators. The batteries, two each, are Panasonic >LC-RD 1217P. I never start with the cross-feed closed. In fact, I >don't ever recall ever using the cross-feed. The starter is >connected to system 1, the system that is now failing. The last >start, while running the test, was sharp and crisp. The alternators >are Bosh with the internal regulators removed. > >The split of devices running on each system is well known, but I >don't see the relevance. The cross-feed is a backup position that, >until now, has not been needed. And, since I was in the pattern >when it failed, there was no need to engage - even if I had >remembered. I don't know the RPMs of the alternators at idle, but, >it was working fine. Sorry. The vast majority of two-alternator systems we work with are on aircraft engines where one alternator is driven from the now vacant vacuum pump pad. Okay, we're troubleshooting a single alternator/ battery combination. Have you run the traps on the LR3 regulator per B&C documents? http://tinyurl.com/bowymay Knowing how the FIELD output voltage from the LR-3 is behaving when you're experiencing a problem is critical to deciding whether the difficulty lies with the alternator or regulator. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need Help Troubleshooting From: Steve Thomas Not yet. Will do ASAP and reply. Steve Thomas ________________________________________________________________________ On Sep 25, 2012, at 12:50 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > Have you run the traps on > the LR3 regulator per B&C documents? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:06 PM PST US From: Bill Schoen Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Looking to Buy a Stein Air Large Terminal Crimping Tool Hi Allen Short report: I have almost completed the installation of the huge E-cowl cowl flap and it is turning out pretty well if I do say so. Had to beef up the trailing edge of the cowl flap so the center mounted actuater can move the huge area without distortion and it is setting up tonight as I type. Tomorrow I start the last cowl project. The NACA duct to the air fi lter to turbo inlet. Will do something similar to your installation. Tryi ng to figure out how to tie the duct to the filter box and get it set up so the cowl can be put on while alowing for the connection of the turbo inlet fixed to the engine and the cowl mounted duct and filter box fixed to the removable cowl. Tricky...but=2C I think I have figured out a way to do it. will take a lot of trial and error but I am still actually kind of enjoyin g the fiber glass work. Will try to send you some pics. I'm having a hard time finding a new memory stick for my ancient sony sure shot digital cam era and the current ones are full up. need to get busy and transfer them a ll to my computer then figure out how to delete all the shots on the little memory card to make room for more shots. The cowl flap looks pretty neat a nd will give me a huge exit area when needed and a pretty streamlined low d rag exit when cooling is not needed. It rained and hailed today. We nee ded the rain and we got lots of it. Turned really chilly this afternoon. A bout 48.... after what must have been cold front passage. Look forward to each days accomplishments as I can see the progress each day. It is getting to be fun again working on the RV-7. No real work on the horizon so don't know how I will pay for the Aero classic upholstery set-up yet which is abo ut the only un-funded project on the horizon. Attended a really good men' s prayer breakfast early this morning=2C then was at the hangar by 8:30 am. Chao for now. Bill > From: afulmer@charter.net > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Looking to Buy a Stein Air Large Terminal Crimping Tool > Date: Mon=2C 24 Sep 2012 17:56:32 -0500 > net> > > I've got the Terminal Tool and it does a great job if you can put it in a > vice. Used as a portable tool it is pretty awkward. I made it work and the > results were fine but=2C as I say=2C it was a little awkward. Maybe if y ou had > a vice on a roll around bench that you could set beside the plane . . . > > Allen Fulmer > RV7 still building > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter > Pengilly > Sent: Monday=2C September 24=2C 2012 5:12 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking to Buy a Stein Air Large Terminal > Crimping Tool > > > > Have you tried Bob Avery at Avery Tools? Try > > http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=461 > > http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=TT5000 > > Peter > > On 24/09/2012 15:52=2C stearman456 wrote: a> > > > > Stein Air used to sell a crimping/swaging tool for #2=2C 4=2C and 6 AWG > terminals=2C product ID was TERMTOOL. I guess they're no longer able to get > them. If someone is done with theirs and would like to sell it I can > promise it a good home. Dan Jones warbirds@shaw.ca > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383893#383893 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.