Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:57 AM - Re: Compatable Shunt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 07:08 AM - Re: Re: SD-8 S704-1 relay with or without Diode when using OVM-14? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:21 AM - Grounding blocks (Eric Marenyi)
4. 07:38 AM - Re: Grounding blocks (James Kilford)
5. 08:20 AM - Renewing old data . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 08:28 AM - Re: Compatable Shunt (user9253)
7. 08:34 AM - Re: Grounding blocks (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 09:00 AM - Re: Grounding blocks (Jared Yates)
9. 12:54 PM - Thermocouple testing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 02:50 PM - Re: Thermocouple testing (Roger & Jean Curtis)
11. 07:45 PM - Re: Re: Compatable Shunt (fedico94@mchsi.com)
12. 07:45 PM - Re: Compatable Shunt (fedico94@mchsi.com)
13. 08:53 PM - Re: Re: Compatable Shunt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 11:01 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
15. 11:04 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Compatable Shunt |
> The shunt sent to me by the Avionics shop for use with the Garmin
> is 100 amp/50mv and the one B & C supplied and installed in the
> plane is 60 amp at 50mv. My confusion and question concerns the
> schematic from Garmin that says the shunt is rated at 0.0005
> Ohm. The B & C supplied system with its shunt is 50mv/60 amp gives
> me 0.00083 Ohm.
>
>First are my calculations correct and second does this have any
>bearing on the inability to display the ammeter reading ? If the
>above is not contributing to the problem should I look elsewhere in
>the system for the problem ? (Prior to turning on the field of the
>60 amp alternator I get the main volts waring light flashing and
>goes off after the field is activated. Remainder of G3X works fine)
The size of the shunt is relative only to calibration
of the display. If you have no display, then the problem
is not with the shunt. If the display is present but
inaccurate, THEN you probably have a shunt problem.
A shut is just a high power resistor . . . abeit a special
resistor manufactured from amazium alloy with a near
zero temperature coefficient of resistance. The material
is actually Manganin.
http://tinyurl.com/3f79fgy
When your current display is a LOADMETER calibrated
in 0-100%, then the shunt is sized to what ever that
100% value is . . . in case of the 60A alternator,
you would use a 60A shunt. If it were a 100A alternator,
then a 100A shunt. Interestingly enough, using a 100A
shunt in ALL installations converts the 0-100% display
to a 0-100A display.
I suspect that the 100A shunt recommended by the
avionics shop is based on some knowledge that the
EFIS calls 50mv drop 100Amps and that size shunt
will read ANY practical current up to 100A accurately.
Substitution of a 60A shunt would simply mean that
your 100A display was really a 100% display.
Looking past calibration issues, if your display is
non-reading, the difficulty lies elsewhere.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: SD-8 S704-1 relay with or without Diode when |
using OVM-14?
At 10:17 AM 9/30/2012, you wrote:
Bob,
Thank-you very much for the replies. I was able to calibrate my OVMs
and get them both (SD-8 Alternator, and Ground Power) installed yesterday.
Did they require re-adjustment?
I greatly appreciate all you do for our OBAM community. Without AEC
I'd be lost. My electrical system installation is coming right along.
My pleasure sir. It's what we do here. It's very much
a two-way street. The AeroElectric-List is a vehicle for
me to practice many of the critical thought and creativity
skills I was unable to fully explore as an employee with
direction supplied down from on-high. Not that the tasks
were devoid of growth in my chosen discipline . . . I
WAS able to participate in a lot of rewarding endeavors.
At the same time, few original ideas offered were given
any elbow room for exploration as to potential benefit
to my employer. I can point to $millions$ in demonstrable
lost opportunities over the 40 years.
If Walter, Duane, and Willy had still been in charge,
who knows? Their legends may not be accurate portrayals
of their true sense of adventure either. I'm still sitting
on a product idea that would replace a 1970's, $20K black
box on a fleet of Hawkers with a 2012 design that can
be manufactured for under $100 . . . but the differences
are so profound that I don't think they believe it can
be true.
In the mean time, let us all continue to grow in the
things we do best.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Grounding blocks |
I am curious as to what a home made grounding block should be made of.
I realize that B and C makes theirs out of brass but I wonder why when
it seems there are other more easily obtained metals with better
conductivity, according to the charts on this site:
http://metaldetectingworld.com/conductive_order_metals.shtml
I have seen grounding blocks made of aluminum, copper, brass, etc.
What is the benefit of one over the other?
--
Eric M.
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Grounding blocks |
I suppose that brass is a good all-rounder -- easy to solder, mechanically
robust, reasonable conductor, fairly inexpensive -- whereas the others have
their trade-offs, e.g. gold & silver being expensive, aluminium being
difficult to join, copper being soft and work-hardening etc.
Just a guess, but brass seems like a great compromise.
On 1 October 2012 15:21, Eric Marenyi <marenyi@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am curious as to what a home made grounding block should be made of.
> I realize that B and C makes theirs out of brass but I wonder why when
> it seems there are other more easily obtained metals with better
> conductivity, according to the charts on this site:
>
> http://metaldetectingworld.com/conductive_order_metals.shtml
>
> I have seen grounding blocks made of aluminum, copper, brass, etc.
> What is the benefit of one over the other?
>
> --
> Eric M.
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Renewing old data . . . |
A few days ago there was some discussion about heated
pitot tubes and some ideas about directly heated tubes
as opposed to assemblies with embedded heating elements.
I was trying to recall some things I explored in
years past . . . a bit fuzzy so I went to the bench and
did the following exploration.
Emacs!
Dug out my Weller 8400, a descendant of the very first soldering
tool I ever purchased (from Burnstein-Applebee in KC for about
$5). The snap-on ammeter showed just over 300 amps in the 'tip wire'
while the trusty John Fluke multimeter gave me 250 millivolts as
the potential delivered to the tip.
The snap-on confirmed a 120VAC current draw of 1.2A or right
at 140 watts power consumed.
Measurement of the tip material confirmed that the cross-section
was on a par with 10AWG wire . . . I used to make replacement
tips from 10AWG scrap provided by a journeyman electrician up
the street from my house.
The experiment confirmed my recollection that soldering guns
are horribly inefficient tools. The actual heating power
delivered to the working tip is tiny compared to the total
power consumed. My Metcal irons deliver a much greater proportion
of their power to the tip . . . a 30W Metcal will install terminals
on 2AWG wire! The Weller 8400 puts about .250 x 310 or 75 watts
of total consumption into the tip wire . . . and that's spread
all along the tip's length. Local heating at the tip plus conduction
from behind the tip might put half the total heat to good use?
In the case of a directly heated pitot tube, the feature that
gives a soldering gun such poor marks turns out to be exactly
what the DHPT needs . . . hot on every surface prone to collection
of ice that would render IAS inoperable.
Food for thought . . .
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Compatable Shunt |
Your calculations look correct to me.
What is the aircraft electrical load? It might be too small to show up on the
ammeter. Turn on the landing light or other heavy load.
The engine needs to be running for the following test.
Measure the voltage drop across the shunt with a milli-voltmeter. With a 60amp
shunt and a 10amp load, the voltage drop will be about 8mv.
Then measure the voltage drop across the ammeter input. It should be the same
as at the shunt.
If there is a millivolt input signal to the ammeter but it still does not display,
perhaps the ammeter needs to be calibrated. See Page 12-20 G3X Installation
Manual - Engine Sensor Configuration
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384385#384385
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Grounding blocks |
At 09:38 AM 10/1/2012, you wrote:
>I suppose that brass is a good all-rounder --
>easy to solder, mechanically robust, reasonable
>conductor, fairly inexpensive -- whereas the
>others have their trade-offs, e.g. gold & silver
>being expensive, aluminium being difficult to
>join, copper being soft and work-hardening etc.
>
>Just a guess, but brass seems like a great compromise.
. . . correct . . . and further re-enforced by
availability of parts/materials for fabrication.
Don't know where one might get fast-on tabs fabricated
from a "better" material.
Yes, materials in the grounding tab ADDS to total
loop resistance. But so to do the terminals, crimp joints,
bolted joints, wire, plating on the wire, pin-to-pin
interface, etc. etc.
Research the "galloping ammeter" phenomenon common to
older airplanes and discussed here on the list at
length. Some owners of nice old 172's complained that
a costly new master switch fixed the problem for only
a short time.
This is because the SUM TOTAL of all resistances in the
regulator sense wiring between bus and regulator has increased
over time. Replacing the switch dropped total loop resistance
below the stability threshold . . . but steadily increasing resistance
in the new switch or (more likely) other components drove
the resistance up past the stability threshold. I've
advised owner/operators to replace/renew ALL joints and components
in that pathway to achieve the same resistance as delivered
from the factory. Only then can one expect the repair to last
as long as the as-new condition.
The design goal is two-fold (1) keep total loop resistance
so low as to be insignificant to system performance and
(2) make sure is STAYS low by the fabrication of gas-tight
or other fabrication techniques that keep moisture laden with
corrosives out of the joints. Meeting these two goals with
skill goes toward a more pleasurable, low cost-of-ownership
experience with your airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Grounding blocks |
Does it help that brass is relatively soft and allows for some
deformation at the point of contact with a fast-on? It seems like I
remember reading that this was part of the gas-tight equation. I used
the $1 terminal strips from Stein combined with a small piece of brass
stock from the local hobby shop to make mine, so brass was very
available. Are those sources available to you Eric, or are you
somewhere far away?
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 09:38 AM 10/1/2012, you wrote:
>>
>> I suppose that brass is a good all-rounder -- easy to solder, mechanically
>> robust, reasonable conductor, fairly inexpensive -- whereas the others have
>> their trade-offs, e.g. gold & silver being expensive, aluminium being
>> difficult to join, copper being soft and work-hardening etc.
>>
>> Just a guess, but brass seems like a great compromise.
>
>
> . . . correct . . . and further re-enforced by
> availability of parts/materials for fabrication.
> Don't know where one might get fast-on tabs fabricated
> from a "better" material.
>
> Yes, materials in the grounding tab ADDS to total
> loop resistance. But so to do the terminals, crimp joints,
> bolted joints, wire, plating on the wire, pin-to-pin
> interface, etc. etc.
>
> Research the "galloping ammeter" phenomenon common to
> older airplanes and discussed here on the list at
> length. Some owners of nice old 172's complained that
> a costly new master switch fixed the problem for only
> a short time.
>
> This is because the SUM TOTAL of all resistances in the
> regulator sense wiring between bus and regulator has increased
> over time. Replacing the switch dropped total loop resistance
> below the stability threshold . . . but steadily increasing resistance
> in the new switch or (more likely) other components drove
> the resistance up past the stability threshold. I've
> advised owner/operators to replace/renew ALL joints and components
> in that pathway to achieve the same resistance as delivered
> from the factory. Only then can one expect the repair to last
> as long as the as-new condition.
>
> The design goal is two-fold (1) keep total loop resistance
> so low as to be insignificant to system performance and
> (2) make sure is STAYS low by the fabrication of gas-tight
> or other fabrication techniques that keep moisture laden with
> corrosives out of the joints. Meeting these two goals with
> skill goes toward a more pleasurable, low cost-of-ownership
> experience with your airplane.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Thermocouple testing |
A few weeks ago we had some discussion about troubleshooting
a thermocouple temperature indicator system. I was curious
about current offerings on eBay and elsewhere for K-type
thermocouple readout devices useful as test tools. I ordered
these two items for further study.
A TM902C hand-held readout instrument powered by
internal battery
http://tinyurl.com/9v8w6d2
and a panel mounted 12vdc externally powered
device
http://tinyurl.com/8c3ngdq
The second one was a disappointment. I was initially
encouraged when I saw a diode mounted between two
terminals on the back of the instrument adjacent to
locations for the thermocouple wire . . . this was
no doubt part of the cold-junction compensation.
The critter was pretty close at 0C but off by 5-6 degrees
at 100C. I opened it up and didn't find any calibration
provisions.
The TM902 was a pleasant surprise. Not only was it within
one degree at 0C (stirred ice bath) it was equally close
at 100C (boiling distilled water). Even better yet, a peek
inside revealed not only an active cold-junction correction
device but two calibration pots.
Emacs!
Bottom line is that this particular instrument is a great value as
a test tool for in-flight temperature surveys, it's easily re-calibrated
should this be necessary in the future.
It comes with a K-type thermocouple about 3' long. Uses standard T/C
connectors. The K-type wire is readily available from sources like eBay
and Omega. The low cost and re-calibration convenience of this critter
puts good temperature measurement and test capability in everybody's
hands.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Thermocouple testing |
A TM902C hand-held readout instrument powered by
internal battery
http://tinyurl.com/9v8w6d2
Bob,
Thanks for the tip. I have one on order.
Roger
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Compatable Shunt |
The G3X manual you refer to lists the calibration procedure for Hall effect sensor
on page 12020. Cn this be used with the Shunt ? I suspect there is no calibration
for the shunt.
Thanks for the reference, I have to keep up on the manual revisions as they add
new devices all the time. After initial test flights I will have to update the
software as well.
----- Original Message -----
From: user9253 <fran4sew@banyanol.com>
Sent: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:27:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Compatable Shunt
Your calculations look correct to me.
What is the aircraft electrical load? It might be too small to show up on the
ammeter. Turn on the landing light or other heavy load.
The engine needs to be running for the following test.
Measure the voltage drop across the shunt with a milli-voltmeter. With a 60amp
shunt and a 10amp load, the voltage drop will be about 8mv.
Then measure the voltage drop across the ammeter input. It should be the same
as at the shunt.
If there is a millivolt input signal to the ammeter but it still does not display,
perhaps the ammeter needs to be calibrated. See Page 12-20 G3X Installation
Manual - Engine Sensor Configuration
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=384385#384385
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Compatable Shunt |
again thanks for the pointers so I can proceed with some confidence.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 08:55:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Compatable Shunt
> The shunt sent to me by the Avionics shop for use with the Garmin
> is 100 amp/50mv and the one B & C supplied and installed in the
> plane is 60 amp at 50mv. My confusion and question concerns the
> schematic from Garmin that says the shunt is rated at 0.0005
> Ohm. The B & C supplied system with its shunt is 50mv/60 amp gives
> me 0.00083 Ohm.
>
>First are my calculations correct and second does this have any
>bearing on the inability to display the ammeter reading ? If the
>above is not contributing to the problem should I look elsewhere in
>the system for the problem ? (Prior to turning on the field of the
>60 amp alternator I get the main volts waring light flashing and
>goes off after the field is activated. Remainder of G3X works fine)
The size of the shunt is relative only to calibration
of the display. If you have no display, then the problem
is not with the shunt. If the display is present but
inaccurate, THEN you probably have a shunt problem.
A shut is just a high power resistor . . . abeit a special
resistor manufactured from amazium alloy with a near
zero temperature coefficient of resistance. The material
is actually Manganin.
http://tinyurl.com/3f79fgy
When your current display is a LOADMETER calibrated
in 0-100%, then the shunt is sized to what ever that
100% value is . . . in case of the 60A alternator,
you would use a 60A shunt. If it were a 100A alternator,
then a 100A shunt. Interestingly enough, using a 100A
shunt in ALL installations converts the 0-100% display
to a 0-100A display.
I suspect that the 100A shunt recommended by the
avionics shop is based on some knowledge that the
EFIS calls 50mv drop 100Amps and that size shunt
will read ANY practical current up to 100A accurately.
Substitution of a 60A shunt would simply mean that
your 100A display was really a 100% display.
Looking past calibration issues, if your display is
non-reading, the difficulty lies elsewhere.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Compatable Shunt |
At 09:43 PM 10/1/2012, you wrote:
>
>The G3X manual you refer to lists the calibration procedure for Hall
>effect sensor on page 12020. Cn this be used with the Shunt ? I
>suspect there is no calibration for the shunt.
>Thanks for the reference, I have to keep up on the manual revisions
>as they add new devices all the time. After initial test flights I
>will have to update the software as well.
I downloaded the g3x manual. A search of the book
cites 82 instances of the word "shunt" where the
expected device is a 50mv/100A device. There
are also 8 instances of Hall Effect where it appears
you can use AmpLoc KEY100 style sensors.
Paragraph 8.3 speaks to the use of either. I was
unable to find any schematic references to hall
devices. They have 3 wire connections and need a
source of clean power. Also, hall effect sensors
are noted for their variability in both offset
and scale factor . . . they require individual
calibration for accuracy. Shunts are precision,
two wire devices that are very predictable. Suggest
you stay with the 100A shunt.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "aeroelectric-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the AeroElectric-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* AeroElectric-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 15
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|
Subject: | Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
AeroElectric-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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