Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:14 AM - Course deviation electrical specification (Peter Mather)
2. 06:20 AM - Re: CAD drawings (Eric M. Jones)
3. 06:46 AM - Re: Re: CAD drawings (Jan)
4. 07:42 AM - Re: lighting Hi/Lo and Dimmer - what are they? (Jeff Page)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: CAD drawings (user9253)
6. 07:59 AM - Re: CAD drawings (Eric M. Jones)
7. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: CAD drawings (Eric Page)
8. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: CAD drawings (Roger & Jean Curtis)
9. 11:06 AM - Re: Re: CAD drawings (Bill Watson)
10. 11:07 AM - Re: CAD drawings (Eric M. Jones)
11. 11:39 AM - Re: CAD drawings (Roberto Waltman)
12. 11:53 AM - Re: CAD drawings (Eric M. Jones)
13. 12:03 PM - Re: Re: CAD drawings (Jared Yates)
14. 12:40 PM - Re: CAD drawings (Harley)
15. 12:55 PM - Making a LED landing light flash (jerrytex)
16. 02:00 PM - Re: Course deviation electrical specification (Henry Hallam)
17. 02:00 PM - Re: Course deviation electrical specification (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 02:00 PM - Re: Course deviation electrical specification (Henry Hallam)
19. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: CAD drawings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: CAD drawings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 02:27 PM - Re: Making a LED landing light flash (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 02:29 PM - Re: Re: lighting Hi/Lo and Dimmer - what are they? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 02:44 PM - What alternator size (B Tomm)
24. 03:52 PM - Re: Course deviation electrical specification (Peter Mather)
25. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: CAD drawings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 04:02 PM - Re: What alternator size (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
27. 04:07 PM - Re: Re: lighting Hi/Lo and Dimmer - what are they? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
28. 05:03 PM - Re: Making a LED landing light flash (Eric M. Jones)
29. 06:12 PM - Re: Course deviation electrical specification (Henry Hallam)
30. 06:28 PM - Re: Re: CAD drawings (Eric Page)
31. 07:44 PM - Re: Course deviation electrical specification (Daniel Hooper)
32. 08:06 PM - Re: Re: Making a LED landing light flash (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
33. 10:38 PM - Re: Re: lighting Hi/Lo and Dimmer - what are they? (U)
34. 10:46 PM - Re: Re: lighting Hi/Lo and Dimmer - what are they? (Sacha)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Course deviation electrical specification |
Hi
Can anyone let me know where to find the electrical specification for
the deviation signal pair to a CDI indicator as the KI206.
I know the deviation is:
Input impedance: 1K ohms
Deflection sensitivity: 150mV for full scale deflection.
What I can't find is any specification for the limits on the common mode
voltage of the CDI pair.
Obviously the the deviation can go negative or positive driven by the
+/-150mV pair of wires. I assume that these sit somewhere above aircraft
ground and are not isolated but I can't find any details
Any help appreciated
Thanks
Peter
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
"It's the stingy guy who pays the most" --Click and Clack
Trying to get the cheapest (or free) software is unlikely to save anything. The
last time I downloaded a free cad program, it came with free viruses, crapware
and spam that took me days to eliminate. I decided I could do without it.
Ebay has full boxes of recent versions of TurboCAD or DesignCAD with manuals and
disks and support and users forums AND FREE SHIPPING for $10. Grab one.
I used to claim DesignCAD was close to the best due simply to the customer service.
They were like the Maytag repairman...waiting for someone to call.
I used to work at a company with a BIG cad program (Cadra) that wouldn't convert
Autocad or do much of anything else. I was always converting ACad files and
doing special jobs using DesignCAD. Furthermore tiny little DesignCAD had a button
marked 3D...and that big CAD program could only dream about having 3D capability.
TurboCAD is similar and better in some areas. Some users do some things in DesignCAD
and other things in TurboCAD on the same drawing. You can (easily!) build
models in Ms-Excel and import them into a CAD program, and them send them to
your paint program (like PaintShop Pro).
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385355#385355
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
Hi Eric
You have me intrigued now ... How do you design models in MsExcel unless you mean
entering XYZ co-ordinates ... simple geometries for turning parts etc....
I think if you try Dassault and its free 2D offering you will be pleasantly surprised
... and it is really free ... not like the normal free stuff .. ;-) ...
All the best
Jan
On Oct 15, 2012, at 9:19 PM, "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net> wrote:
>
> "It's the stingy guy who pays the most" --Click and Clack
>
> Trying to get the cheapest (or free) software is unlikely to save anything. The
last time I downloaded a free cad program, it came with free viruses, crapware
and spam that took me days to eliminate. I decided I could do without it.
>
> Ebay has full boxes of recent versions of TurboCAD or DesignCAD with manuals
and disks and support and users forums AND FREE SHIPPING for $10. Grab one.
>
> I used to claim DesignCAD was close to the best due simply to the customer service.
They were like the Maytag repairman...waiting for someone to call.
>
> I used to work at a company with a BIG cad program (Cadra) that wouldn't convert
Autocad or do much of anything else. I was always converting ACad files and
doing special jobs using DesignCAD. Furthermore tiny little DesignCAD had a
button marked 3D...and that big CAD program could only dream about having 3D
capability.
>
> TurboCAD is similar and better in some areas. Some users do some things in DesignCAD
and other things in TurboCAD on the same drawing. You can (easily!) build
models in Ms-Excel and import them into a CAD program, and them send them
to your paint program (like PaintShop Pro).
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385355#385355
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: lighting Hi/Lo and Dimmer - what are they? |
> From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
> Does anyone have an example of the type of dimmer that would be up
> to this task?
One of these will likely meet your requirement. There are many other
similar products available from other sources.
http://www.bandc.biz/lighting-equipment.aspx
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
Although not compatible with AutoCad, ExpressSCH (http://www.expresspcb.com) is much easier to learn than full featured CAD programs. And it is completely free with no annual registration renewal.
Someone might have an aviation component library for use with ExpressSCH.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385360#385360
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
Jan,
Although it is probably not a useful subject for the AeroElectric, here is a short
tale of making Lame' curves for CAD programs, plus a link to my free Excel
SuperEllipse Curve Generator for use by artists, engineers and designers.
http://www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/Superellipses.pdf
The basic technique is to program Excel to generate XY or XYZ numbers, then exporting
them into a CAD program. Sometimes it is necessary to edit the numbers
via MS Notepad (often just rename the extension). Most cad programs can accept
coordinates as one of their inputs. You can also use a BASIC program or such
to use the geometric equations to generate a list of numbers. It sound harder
than it is, but it is a wonderfully useful technique.
One great aeronautical use is to copy the NACA airfoil coordinates at:
http://tinyurl.com/cwnqnan
The XY numbers paste right into CAD programs and draw airfoils. Cool!
Do Not Archive
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385361#385361
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
I would advise caution with the ExpressPCB software. It works OK and it's r
elatively simple to learn, but it's very much a one-trick pony. It's intend
ed for electronics schematic design and circuit board layout; it has zero CA
D functionality in the mechanical engineering sense.
ExpressPCB is a circuit board manufacturer. Their free software is intended
to generate orders for that business. It uses a proprietary file format on
ly and will not export to or import from any other formats; there's no way t
o get your design out of the software except as a printed drawing, a bitmap i
mage or an overpriced circuit board order. Component libraries are limited a
nd the software has no provision for user-created parts/libraries.
I used ExpressPCB briefly before I realized all of this and had to recreate s
everal projects from scratch. I now use DipTrace and love it. For non-prof
it use with 2-layer boards and <=500 pins, it's free. For-profit licenses
start at $75. The part libraries are massive, you can request that new par
ts be added, and component/pattern design software is included in the packag
e to make your own parts/libraries. They have an active online forum and te
ch support is very responsive. DipTrace exports industry-standard Gerber 27
4X and Excellon NC Drill files for manufacturing.
Eagle is another very popular schematic and PCB layout package with essentia
lly identical capabilities and similar licensing schemes to DipTrace. Eagle
is in very wide use, but I found its learning curve to be a bit steep for m
y feeble brain.
DipTrace: http://diptrace.com/
Eagle: http://bit.ly/R153fZ
Eric
On Oct 15, 2012, at 7:53 AM, "user9253" <fran4sew@banyanol.com> wrote:
> Although not compatible with AutoCad, ExpressSCH (http://www.expresspcb.co
m) is much easier to learn than full featured CAD programs. And it is compl
etely free with no annual registration renewal.
> Someone might have an aviation component library for use with ExpressSCH.
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
I would advise caution with the ExpressPCB software.
ExpressPCB is a circuit board manufacturer. Their free software is
intended
to generate orders for that business. It uses a proprietary file format
only and will not export to or import from any other formats; there's no
way
to get your design out of the software except as a printed drawing, a
bitmap
image or an overpriced circuit board order.
Eric,
I designed a couple of small PCBs in the past and found Express PCB to
be
quite economical for a couple of boards. Do you know of a manufacturer
who
will do a very small quantity of boards at a lesser price?
Roger
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
I'd second that idea. I gave up trying to learn a CAD package for this
task. Still using ExpressSCH 4 years later. A good little tool.
Bill Watson
>
> Although not compatible with AutoCad, ExpressSCH (http://www.expresspcb.com) is much easier to learn than full featured CAD programs. And it is completely free with no annual registration renewal.
> Someone might have an aviation component library for use with ExpressSCH.
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
Eric and Joe??
I used Eagle for many years and loved it. But for what I do now ExpressPCB is great.
The simplest layout art software. The schematic capture is great too. I
don't agree that ExpressPCB is expensive. For what you get--stone-simple Miniboard
service--3 PCBs in 3 days for $51 (plus shipping) is great. Their bigger
boards are very competitive, too. They WILL provide Gerber plots after the first
order for a nominal fee.
My PCBs are the size of postage stamps, so I get great of value for the $$$.
Don't confuse ExpressPCB and PCBExpress.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385378#385378
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
Jan wrote:
> DraftSight is backed by a world class company - and its free - and its
> totally AutoCAD compatible
But it requires to register and "activate" it. (Yearly, I believe.)
If the company changes its policy in the future, you may be left with a
collection of designs you have no access to (*), in addition to wasting
the time and effort spend making them as well as learning to use the tool.
Roberto.
(*) Make sure to save everything in DXF/DWF format.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
>From ExpressPCB customer service:
You can order gerber files by email for PCBs that we have previously
manufactured. The cost of a gerber file order is $60. The $60 fee will be
billed to the credit card number used with the original order of boards.
To order gerber files, send email to support@expresspcb.com with the exact
information listed below. The email MUST come from the person that placed
the original PCB order.
1) Write a note indicating that you would like to purchase gerber files.
2) Acknowledge in your email that you understand there is a $60 fee for
each set of gerber files that you order, and that the fee will be billed to
your credit card.
3) Specify the order number of the previously manufactured design by noting
our original 9 character order number. Our order numbers have the form
ABCD-1234-E.
We will generate the gerber files using the original PCB design file
associated with your order number. We will then email the gerber files
back to you as an attachment. The email will also include a receipt for
the $60 fee marked "Paid in full".
You will receive these files:
+ Top silkscreen layer
+ Top soldermask layer
+ Top copper layer
+ Bottom copper layer
+ Bottom soldermask layer
+ Drill file
+ 4 layer designs also include the 2 inner layers
Do Not Archive
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385385#385385
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
I used a pencil and ruler, and while that doesn't answer the original question,
it was done in less time than it has taken to read these posts
On Oct 15, 2012, at 14:06, Bill Watson <Mauledriver@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> I'd second that idea. I gave up trying to learn a CAD package for this task.
Still using ExpressSCH 4 years later. A good little tool.
> Bill Watson
>>
>> Although not compatible with AutoCad, ExpressSCH (http://www.expresspcb.com) is much easier to learn than full featured CAD programs. And it is completely free with no annual registration renewal.
>> Someone might have an aviation component library for use with ExpressSCH.
>> Joe
>>
>> --------
>> Joe Gores
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
Draftsight does have to be "reactivated" regularly...but it is
just a matter of clicking on a button...I believe it asks for
your email address at the same time...but that's it. No long
activation process.
It uses .dwg as it's native format...so it won't get incompatible
as long as ACAD and all the programs (like Visual Cadd) can still
access that format. I regularly transfer files between Visual
CADD and Draftsight with no problems or any work other than
loading it into the program.
Harley
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> Jan wrote:
>> DraftSight is backed by a world class company - and its free -
>> and its
>> totally AutoCAD compatible
>
> But it requires to register and "activate" it. (Yearly, I
> believe.)
> If the company changes its policy in the future, you may be
> left with a collection of designs you have no access to (*), in
> addition to wasting the time and effort spend making them as
> well as learning to use the tool.
>
> Roberto.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Making a LED landing light flash |
I recently fitted an LED driving light into my wingtip. I am now interested in
making it flash so I am more visible in the pattern. What is the best/cheapest
way of doing this? I have seen the Wig Wag schematic but I only have one light
and from what I read, it requires two lights to work.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385391#385391
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Course deviation electrical specification |
This is strictly speculation, but maybe internally it's just a moving-coil
voltmeter, which would be isolated from the aircraft supply and okay with
any reasonable common-mode voltage.
Henry
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:12 AM, Peter Mather <peter@mather.com> wrote:
> Hi****
>
> ** **
>
> Can anyone let me know where to find the electrical specification for the
> deviation signal pair to a CDI indicator as the KI206.****
>
> ** **
>
> I know the deviation is: ****
>
> ** **
>
> Input impedance: 1K ohms ****
>
> Deflection sensitivity: 150mV for full scale deflection.****
>
> ** **
>
> What I can't find is any specification for the limits on the common mode
> voltage of the CDI pair.****
>
> ** **
>
> Obviously the the deviation can go negative or positive driven by the
> +/-150mV pair of wires. I assume that these sit somewhere above aircraft
> ground and are not isolated but I can't find any details****
>
> ** **
>
> Any help appreciated****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> ** **
>
> Peter ****
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Course deviation electrical specification |
At 04:12 AM 10/15/2012, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>Can anyone let me know where to find the electrical specification
>for the deviation signal pair to a CDI indicator as the KI206.
>
>I know the deviation is:
>
>Input impedance: 1K ohms
>Deflection sensitivity: 150mV for full scale deflection.
>
>What I can't find is any specification for the limits on the common
>mode voltage of the CDI pair.
>
>Obviously the the deviation can go negative or positive driven by
>the +/-150mV pair of wires. I assume that these sit somewhere above
>aircraft ground and are not isolated but I can't find any details
>
>Any help appreciated
>
>Thanks
>
>Peter
The CDI needle is a meter movement and does
not operate 'against ground' . . . it floats.
So common mode is limited by the insulation
resistance of the internal conductors. It's
probably much higher than your proposed application
could produce.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Course deviation electrical specification |
You could test by measuring resistance to the gnd or power pins on the
10Mohm range of a multimeter.
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 1:58 PM, Henry Hallam <henry@pericynthion.org>wrote:
> This is strictly speculation, but maybe internally it's just a moving-coil
> voltmeter, which would be isolated from the aircraft supply and okay with
> any reasonable common-mode voltage.
>
> Henry
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 2:12 AM, Peter Mather <peter@mather.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Can anyone let me know where to find the electrical specification for the
>> deviation signal pair to a CDI indicator as the KI206.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I know the deviation is: ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Input impedance: 1K ohms ****
>>
>> Deflection sensitivity: 150mV for full scale deflection.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> What I can't find is any specification for the limits on the common mode
>> voltage of the CDI pair.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Obviously the the deviation can go negative or positive driven by the
>> +/-150mV pair of wires. I assume that these sit somewhere above aircraft
>> ground and are not isolated but I can't find any details****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Any help appreciated****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Thanks****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Peter ****
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
> Their free software is intended to generate orders for that business.
As is their ECB layout program. Express schematic isn't much
of a 'cad' system. It's intended as a front end to ExpressPCB's
layout which will do a fair job of auto-routing the layout AFTER
the schematic is entered into the drafting program. The symbols
are limited and they're only intended to be place-holders for the
end product which is copper pathways between input-output pins
of a 'device'.
I tried it years ago and wasn't particularly impressed with
it . . . I've laid out my boards 'by hand' since day-one
and consider it part of the continuity for a design-goals-to-
end-product process. When I look at one of my layouts I 'see' the
schematic too. When I look at somebody else's layout . . . including
ExpressSCHM, there's a disconnect.
If all you need to do is run wires between inputs/outputs
of devices and don't have a any existing notions of what
the drawings should look like, the Express program is
a real bargain at zero cost.
Bob . . .
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
At 02:03 PM 10/15/2012, you wrote:
>
>I used a pencil and ruler, and while that doesn't answer the
>original question, it was done in less time than it has taken to
>read these posts
In my seminars I recommend that builders do their shop drawings
as page-per-system sketches on a really good quality bond paper
3-hole punched for a notebook. Do the drawings in #2 pencil by
hand. When you're all done, draw over the pencil drawing with
non-smearing ink and guides. When the ink is dry, use a Pink
Pearl to clean off all the pencil marks.
Quit often, when I want to publish a sketch to the List,
I'll draft it in pencil to sorta size up the task and
organization . . . then draw it again in ink. Sometimes
the ink lines don't lay on top of or even near the pencil
lines. Again, the PP eraser cleans it all up for scanning
and publication.
http://tinyurl.com/9slaa43
You need to use a pretty good quality paper with enough
clay in it to keep the graphite near the surface. Big
Chief tablets are problematic. Really cool thing about
the PPAD system (pencil-pen aided design) is that it
will never give you the blue-screen-of-death nor will
the batteries run down.
Bob . . .
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Making a LED landing light flash |
At 02:53 PM 10/15/2012, you wrote:
>
>I recently fitted an LED driving light into my wingtip. I am now
>interested in making it flash so I am more visible in the pattern.
>What is the best/cheapest way of doing this? I have seen the Wig Wag
>schematic but I only have one light and from what I read, it
>requires two lights to work.
Put a 50 ohm resistor in place of the second light.
http://tinyurl.com/9xbhdt6
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | Re: lighting Hi/Lo and Dimmer - what are they? |
At 10:33 PM 10/14/2012, you wrote:
>
>Does anyone have an example of the type of dimmer that would be up
>to this task?
>
What is the load current for the dimmer input? Is
this input really supplying power to some kind of
lamp or is it simply a voltage input that monitors
other dimmed lights with some notion of tracking
their appearance?
The specs for your device should state the "dimmer
load" requiremnts.
Bob . . .
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| Subject: | What alternator size |
How to choose the correct alt size?
If my theoretical max sustained current draw on the airplane is 35-40 amps,
will a 40 amp B and C alternator be sufficient? In other words, is there
room to spare or is 40 amps the maximum? And is this at max engine RPM or
cruise or does it matter?
The majoring of the electrical requirements are for things rarely used such
as pitot heat, strobes, lights etc. Is it acceptable to use the SD-8 backup
alternator to provide the remaining amps when all those loads are required?
I assume that there needs to be head room so that the battery can re-charge
after a high load event, but I don't know how much this will add to the
total load.
I really don't want a 60 amp alternator if a 40 will suffice without any
significant downsides as the weight savings is significant.
Bevan
Message 24
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| Subject: | Course deviation electrical specification |
Bob
That is true of a conventional CDI, but not of something like the Sandel.
This has to process the input pair electronically. I've managed to establish
that the GNS430 uses a fixed 2.5V above ground for the CDI - and the KNS80
uses 4.5V. I'm building an experimental autopilot so I need to know if 4.5V
is as high as it goes or if there is some definition of the actual standard
that needs adhering to.
Any further info appreciated
rgds
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: 15 October 2012 22:00
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Course deviation electrical specification
--> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 04:12 AM 10/15/2012, you wrote:
>Hi
>
>Can anyone let me know where to find the electrical specification for
>the deviation signal pair to a CDI indicator as the KI206.
>
>I know the deviation is:
>
>Input impedance: 1K ohms
>Deflection sensitivity: 150mV for full scale deflection.
>
>What I can't find is any specification for the limits on the common
>mode voltage of the CDI pair.
>
>Obviously the the deviation can go negative or positive driven by the
>+/-150mV pair of wires. I assume that these sit somewhere above
>aircraft ground and are not isolated but I can't find any details
>
>Any help appreciated
>
>Thanks
>
>Peter
The CDI needle is a meter movement and does
not operate 'against ground' . . . it floats.
So common mode is limited by the insulation
resistance of the internal conductors. It's
probably much higher than your proposed application
could produce.
Bob . . .
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
At 01:07 PM 10/15/2012, you wrote:
>
>Eric and Joe??
>
>I used Eagle for many years and loved it. But for what I do now
>ExpressPCB is great. The simplest layout art software. The schematic
>capture is great too. I don't agree that ExpressPCB is expensive.
>For what you get--stone-simple Miniboard service--3 PCBs in 3 days
>for $51 (plus shipping) is great.
Absolutely. ExpressPCB has been my prototype and
production supplier for years. For the kinds of
volumes I produce, I can often rubber stamp several
copies of a small board onto a miniboard. For example,
my crowbar OVM boards fit 19 times onto a miniboard.
I get three boards for about $61 delivered to my
door in as little as three days . . . that works out
to about $1/board.
For production lots of, say 200 . . . they come already
trimmed apart for about $1.70 each. Boards to fit my
d-sub enclosures are about $4.00 in lots of 50. If I
were going to purchase more than 50 boards at a time,
I might be able to save some production costs elsewhere
but when you live in the hinterland, being able to get
boards on order with a keystroke on Monday and have
them on the back porch Wednesday is a pretty valuable
service.
I can also state that in 10-15 years of working with
these folks, they've never muffed an order.
Bob . . .
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: What alternator size |
At 04:43 PM 10/15/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>How to choose the correct alt size?
>
>If my theoretical max sustained current draw on the airplane is 35-40 amps,
>will a 40 amp B and C alternator be sufficient? In other words, is there
>room to spare or is 40 amps the maximum? And is this at max engine RPM or
>cruise or does it matter?
>
>The majoring of the electrical requirements are for things rarely used such
>as pitot heat, strobes, lights etc. Is it acceptable to use the SD-8 backup
>alternator to provide the remaining amps when all those loads are required?
>
>I assume that there needs to be head room so that the battery can re-charge
>after a high load event, but I don't know how much this will add to the
>total load.
>
>I really don't want a 60 amp alternator if a 40 will suffice without any
>significant downsides as the weight savings is significant.
Have you done a load analysis? 15 years ago I did one for
an RV that came up 27 amps worst case (pitot heater on).
For most of us, the current draw for the various electro-whizzies
is going down . . . not up.
Check out the files at
http://tinyurl.com/9rt6ymn
where you'll find some spread-sheet examples of load analysis
conducted by members of the list. You can go the pure
manual route using a pencil and this form
http://tinyurl.com/7jqypwj
Fill this out for EACH bus (main, e-bus, battery bus)
and fill in CONTINUOUS draw currents for each
electro-whizzy used during a particular phase of
flight. You don't every run everything all the time.
The rule of thumb is to have 25% of an alternator
capacity in reserve for battery charging. So see
if you can fly your airplane on 30A or less . . . I'm
betting you can . . . much less.
Bob . . .
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: lighting Hi/Lo and Dimmer - what are they? |
At 01:29 PM 10/14/2012, you wrote:
>
>Tim and Jeff, thanks a lot for your replies.
>
>For the moment (as i dont have a variable voltage supply) I'll just
>hook up the lighting bus to +14 volts and use the auto dimming
>function on the GNS430.
>
>What about the King KI-209 "Dimmer" pin? Is your understanding that
>is also meant to be connected to a variable voltage supply? They
>don't mention anything about it in the manual so its a "standard" thing.
>
>Since the current consumption is low, I suppose I could build a
>variable voltage supply by simply putting a variable resistor in
>series with the Dimmer circuit. Does this sound like it would work?
The KI209 probably has incandescent bulbs for illumination.
Hook up a bench supply and measure the current. These legacy
instruments had two 12v strings in series. For 24v you
hook up to one end of hte total string. For 12v you
ground the 24v pin and drive the center-tap.
Is this the ONLY thing you need to dim . . . or will there
be other devices hooked to it? Do a load analysis (or just
wait until they're all hooked up and then measure the total
dimming load). A dimmer like this
http://tinyurl.com/9xv9dl2
is available from B&C but they come in a range of sizes
from 0.5 to 5A . . . no point in buying or building
one that's too big.
Bob . . .
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Making a LED landing light flash |
> I recently fitted an LED driving light into my wingtip. I am now interested in
making it flash so I am more visible in the pattern. What is the best/cheapest
way of doing this? I have seen the Wig Wag schematic but I only have one light
and from what I read, it requires two lights to work.
I have experimented with this and it look like doubling the rate is the best way
to go if you have only one lamp. Just leaving out the other lamp leaves a whole
lot of empty time to not-be-seen. Try it. You'll like it.
I've made one-lamp flashers for some customers using this method.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=385419#385419
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Course deviation electrical specification |
Unfortunately I doubt there is an official generic standard anywhere. If
you're really worried you could use something like this:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ina149.pdf but personally (especially if
this is a one-off autopilot rather than for mass production) I would just
survey some common avionics and get a range of possible common-mode
voltages.
Henry
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Peter Mather <peter@mather.com> wrote:
>
> Bob
>
> That is true of a conventional CDI, but not of something like the Sandel.
> This has to process the input pair electronically. I've managed to
> establish
> that the GNS430 uses a fixed 2.5V above ground for the CDI - and the KNS80
> uses 4.5V. I'm building an experimental autopilot so I need to know if 4.5V
> is as high as it goes or if there is some definition of the actual standard
> that needs adhering to.
>
> Any further info appreciated
>
> rgds
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
> L.
> Nuckolls, III
> Sent: 15 October 2012 22:00
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Course deviation electrical specification
>
> --> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 04:12 AM 10/15/2012, you wrote:
> >Hi
> >
> >Can anyone let me know where to find the electrical specification for
> >the deviation signal pair to a CDI indicator as the KI206.
> >
> >I know the deviation is:
> >
> >Input impedance: 1K ohms
> >Deflection sensitivity: 150mV for full scale deflection.
> >
> >What I can't find is any specification for the limits on the common
> >mode voltage of the CDI pair.
> >
> >Obviously the the deviation can go negative or positive driven by the
> >+/-150mV pair of wires. I assume that these sit somewhere above
> >aircraft ground and are not isolated but I can't find any details
> >
> >Any help appreciated
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Peter
>
> The CDI needle is a meter movement and does
> not operate 'against ground' . . . it floats.
> So common mode is limited by the insulation
> resistance of the internal conductors. It's
> probably much higher than your proposed application
> could produce.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: CAD drawings |
I have two favorites for cheap, low-count PCB runs:
OSH Park: http://www.oshpark.com/
BatchPCB: http://www.batchpcb.com/
Both use the concept of combining many customers' small boards into one larg
e panel before sending it to a fab house. OSH Park uses a fab house in the U
SA, they're absurdly cheap, shipping is free, board quality is outstanding, a
nd boards typically arrive in 7-10 days. My most recent order was for a boa
rd that measures 0.8" x 1.7". 3 boards delivered was $10.90. BatchPCB is a
subsidiary of Sparkfun Electronics. They use a fab house in China, cost a b
it more, charge a modest shipping fee, and take 2-3 times as long. They're r
eally just my backup plan at this point.
Note that to use either of these, your board must meet their design rules (n
othing onerous, just limits on minimum trace width and hole sizes - see thei
r websites) and you'll have to provide Gerber and NC Drill files.
Eric
On Oct 15, 2012, at 10:47 AM, "Roger & Jean Curtis" <mrspudandcompany@verizo
n.net> wrote:
>
> Eric,
>
> I designed a couple of small PCBs in the past and found Express PCB to be q
uite economical for a couple of boards. Do you know of a manufacturer who w
ill do a very small quantity of boards at a lesser price?
>
> Roger
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Course deviation electrical specification |
A common practice for CAN bus systems is to use a part that is tolerant of the
system bus voltage on the signal lines.
That's just a datapoint for you though, not a real answer.
Daniel Hooper
On Oct 15, 2012, at 5:51 PM, "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com> wrote:
>
> Bob
>
> That is true of a conventional CDI, but not of something like the Sandel.
> This has to process the input pair electronically. I've managed to establish
> that the GNS430 uses a fixed 2.5V above ground for the CDI - and the KNS80
> uses 4.5V. I'm building an experimental autopilot so I need to know if 4.5V
> is as high as it goes or if there is some definition of the actual standard
> that needs adhering to.
>
> Any further info appreciated
>
> rgds
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III
> Sent: 15 October 2012 22:00
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Course deviation electrical specification
>
> --> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 04:12 AM 10/15/2012, you wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Can anyone let me know where to find the electrical specification for
>> the deviation signal pair to a CDI indicator as the KI206.
>>
>> I know the deviation is:
>>
>> Input impedance: 1K ohms
>> Deflection sensitivity: 150mV for full scale deflection.
>>
>> What I can't find is any specification for the limits on the common
>> mode voltage of the CDI pair.
>>
>> Obviously the the deviation can go negative or positive driven by the
>> +/-150mV pair of wires. I assume that these sit somewhere above
>> aircraft ground and are not isolated but I can't find any details
>>
>> Any help appreciated
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Peter
>
> The CDI needle is a meter movement and does
> not operate 'against ground' . . . it floats.
> So common mode is limited by the insulation
> resistance of the internal conductors. It's
> probably much higher than your proposed application
> could produce.
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Making a LED landing light flash |
At 07:02 PM 10/15/2012, you wrote:
>
>
> > I recently fitted an LED driving light into my wingtip. I am now
> interested in making it flash so I am more visible in the pattern.
> What is the best/cheapest way of doing this? I have seen the Wig
> Wag schematic but I only have one light and from what I read, it
> requires two lights to work.
>
>
>I have experimented with this and it look like doubling the rate is
>the best way to go if you have only one lamp. Just leaving out the
>other lamp leaves a whole lot of empty time to not-be-seen. Try it.
>You'll like it.
Agreed. I don't recall the authoritative source but
waaaayyyy back when, we were advised that cockpit
warning lights should be flashed at about 3 to
3.5 flashes per second with 50% duty cycle for
maximum attention getting effects.
I was told that's the number that works best for
intensity modulation (on-off) as opposed to 1 to
1.5 per second for position modulation (wig-wag).
Back when I worked with attorneys wrestling with
grade crossing accidents and various visibility
issues, we learned that visual acuity for 20/20
observer was about 1 arc-minute or 1/60th degree.
To perceive that a wig-wag grade crossing signal
(8 or 12" roundels on 30" centers) was not a steady
red light, the 20/20 observer who was paying attention
under good visibility conditions had to be less
than 8000' away. For the wig-wag to get some attention,
required about 3 arc seconds or a sight distance
of about 2800 feet. Of course, there are a dozen
other variables that drive the situation down-hill
from there.
If your wig-wags are on wing tips of an RV or
25 feet apart (10x the center distance on a
grade crossing wig-wag) then you can expect
pretty good attention grabbing presentation
in clear visibility to other pilots at about
28000 feet or 5+ miles and the 1 to 1.5
transitions/second values apply.
For intensity modulated warning systems (strobes,
rotating beacons, etc) the numbers are better
especially at the faster rate more likely to
grab attention. Unlike the wig-wag that simply
morphs into a steady light beyond a certain
distance, the strobe's on-off behaviors can
be detected from much greater distances.
Bob . . .
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: lighting Hi/Lo and Dimmer - what are they? |
On 15/ott/2012, at 23:29, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
> At 10:33 PM 10/14/2012, you wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone have an example of the type of dimmer that would be up to this task?
>>
>
> What is the load current for the dimmer input? Is
> this input really supplying power to some kind of
> lamp or is it simply a voltage input that monitors
> other dimmed lights with some notion of tracking
> their appearance?
>
> The specs for your device should state the "dimmer
> load" requiremnts.
>
I'm unable to find this information in the various installation manuals.
The GNS430 installation manual (has the information in sections 4.2 and 5.2.5 and
basically states that the unit can be configured to track 28vdc, 14vdc, 5vdc,
and 5vac lighting buses or an internal light sensor). [The manual (Rev M) is
available if you google GNS430 installation manual. ]
Other units (the KI-209, the Pro Pilot autopilot, the KT76A transponder) manuals
don't have load requirements either, they speak of the "airplane lighting bus"
and "dimmer control" as if they were some kind of standard thing.
Sacha
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: lighting Hi/Lo and Dimmer - what are they? |
> The KI209 probably has incandescent bulbs for illumination.
Yup, the lighting requirements for the KI209 are 90mA. I have a couple of other
instruments which need dimming (current unknown but I will measure it next time).
> A dimmer like this
>
> http://tinyurl.com/9xv9dl2
>
> is available from B&C but they come in a range of sizes
> from 0.5 to 5A . . . no point in buying or building
> one that's too big.
This kind of dimmer would do the trick for the instrument lighting.
I was thinking of using LEDs to light the cabin. Is it possible to dim these using
the above circuit or do I need something else?
Sacha
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