---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/12/12: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:08 AM - What's Your Contribution Used For? (Matt Dralle) 1. 01:42 AM - Re: New LOMU member . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 06:38 AM - A200 and Flightcom squeal (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 07:25 AM - Re: EBUS Circuit Protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 08:45 AM - Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal (SIDESLIP) 5. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane grounded!! (David Lloyd) 6. 10:48 AM - Re: New LOMU member . . . (Christopher Cee Stone) 7. 12:05 PM - Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane grounded!! (SIDESLIP) 8. 01:52 PM - Re: New LOMU member . . . (Sacha) 9. 04:55 PM - Re: New LOMU member . . . (Eric M. Jones) 10. 06:09 PM - Re: New LOMU member . . . (Jared Yates) 11. 07:54 PM - Re: New LOMU member . . . (Christopher Cee Stone) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:04 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: What's Your Contribution Used For? Dear Listers, You might have wondered at some pointd, "What's my Contribution used for?" Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables... It provides for the expensive, commercial-grade Internet connection used on the List. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for List services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and the Web Forums. It pays for the over 22 years of on-line archive data always available for instant search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power these List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, and Wiki. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables all these aspects of Matronics List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport! List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:09 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New LOMU member . . . At 05:11 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: >The Metcal is the SP200. Okay, those are a different series of tips so you'll have to flush those quail out of another bush http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a control function when the handpiece is holstered. Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the manual http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p >Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my >trusty Weller. Works fine most of the time. 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of any form of additional flux on electronics soldering. Many of the legacy products are VERY effective for structural soldering where the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but are exceedingly conductive and corrosive. Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one example of many. http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the surface and one of these pens will last you for years as long as you don't leave the cap off. You will find that the smallest surface mount joints can be made with no solder added to a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23 like devices. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:49 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: A200 and Flightcom squeal > > >It's would be great to hear some feedback from the pro Bob Nuckolls. When you can "make a difference" with the waving of hands, two possibilities pop up (there may be more but I'm on my first cup of coffee). The first suggests an acoustic coupling wherein the microphone is hearing audio leakage from under your headset seals . . . seems unlikely due to the noise cancelling designs for most aviation mic-headsets and the effectiveness of the seals. But I wouldn't throw that one out yet. The other is an RF interference condition. Hi levels of RF in the cockpit and in PARTICULAR from an AM transmitter (easily de-modulated by non-linearities in over-stressed circuitry) can 'paint' electronics with a stress they were never designed to withstand. Try putting a dummy load on the A200 antenna connector and see if noise goes away. Here's a DIY load you can build if you can't put your hands on one by some other means. http://tinyurl.com/cchp3pf If the noise goes away, then inspection of the antenna system is indicated. Do an SWR check on the A200 antenna, alternatively you can move the dummy load to the far end of the coax and see if the noise is still gone. The most common sources of hi level cockpit radiation are the byproduct of either antenna proximity combined with low coupling losses (plastic airplane) -OR- bad feedline where the #1 culprit in my experience was a shield termination pulling out of the clamp on a old nut-style UG-88 connector. A a-placing-of-hands-healing by grabbing the mic boom suggests that demodulation of the AM transmitter signal is taking place in the electronics that conditions the signal from modern electret microphone cartridges to emulate the legacy aviation carbon microphone. (A@$%!#@$%!! why is it that the rest of the world talks to each other on digital spread spectrum, or FM supported by electronics having no vestige of WWII technologies . . . while aviation still struggles with these system integration alligators? A topic for another time). Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EBUS Circuit Protection At 07:55 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: I didn't include circuit protection for my EBUS, that is powered through a B&C Essential bus diode. The best explanation for not doing so is that it seemed unnecessary at the time I was designing the electrical system, and protection was not called for in the Z-12 drawing after which my electrical system in based. I am second guessing myself now, especially given the documentation that comes with the EBUS diode shows a breaker (not to exceed 25A). As far as I can reason, the only purpose for circuit protection would be to protect the diode itself. If the diode was not present and the bus bar that is the EBUS was simply an extension of the Main bus, circuit protection between the bus bars would not be called for. Would you recommend adding circuit protection between EBUS and main bus? Will the Essential Bus Diode open if its current rating is sufficiently exceeded, or will it allow current to pass (albeit in both directions)? It seems that circuit protection would be a good thing since you would have no good way to tell if the diode had been compromised (unless of course it opened after being sufficiently abused). Thanks in advance for your help. The legacy philosophy for circuit protection in airplanes says fuses and breakers are to prevent fire/smoke from wires. That doesn't mean that some system designer/integrator might deduce an alternate or supplemental requirement for a particular style and placement of protection. An example would be the use of a circuit breaker upstream of a crowbar ov module where the breaker not only protects wires, it's a component of a rapid response disconnect for alternator field power. In light of these assertions, the need for wire protection in the e-bus normal feed path is predicated on lengths of wires. The legacy philosophy for leaving protection out is predicated on a length of the at-risk path. The rule of thumb which guided such decisions at my places of employment was that path length of 6" or less does not require protection. It has always been my assumption that an e-bus and main bus structure would be located very close to each other and the diode wires were short. Perhaps I should have put the "6 inches or less" flag (*) on those wires. Power diodes almost always fail shorted. An easy test during pre-flight is to close the alternate feed path switch to power up for getting your ATIS or clearance delivery . . . or just to test the alternate path switch. If the diode is shorted, the whole panel will light up . . . not just e-bus appliances. I've seen diodes fail open, but never in the passive sense that would tend to hide their condition from external inspection. These diodes literally exploded leaving two wire stubs waving in the breeze. The fat diode used for the normal feed path isolation is not likely to fail with such fanfare . . . which leaves shorting as the only, easily tested risk. The short answer to your question is "no" assuming the wires are short. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:46 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200 and Flightcom squeal From: "SIDESLIP" Bob.... Thanks for the input. The audio leakage from the headsets is, in my opinion almost impossible, stricktly due to the fact they fit so well, and are nicely broken in. The other part that super confuses me is that the handheld is wired into the system exactly the same as the A200, with the only variable being a different antenna. So, you can see how it points me to the A200's settings of mic gain/sidetone and or antenna issues. I've been told to try and simply swap the antenna connections and try this first. Make sense? I "think" I have an SWR meter still from my CB radio days around somewhere.... I believe. I'll look later tonight. Bob, what does your gut tell you about this? Antenna? Simple adjustments? I know that when we turned the sidetone down to factory settings, the squeal was nowhere near as bad, but still no clear transmission. Just less invasive. When I pulled the mic jack mid transmit, the squeal disappeared immediately. Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387692#387692 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:24 AM PST US From: "David Lloyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane grounded!! Here is a wild shot at the problem and it has to do with bone conduction, etc.....!! You mentioned that the side tone was very high and that moving the mike away from your mouth stopped the problem. Audio energy has a conductive path via the jaw bones and is the method of use by some specialty mikes and audio systems. Yours is not one of these techniques but, it only proves that audio bone conduction certainly works. I would turn the side tone down to the lowest level and see it that halts the problem. My guess is that the sidetone is very high, conducts via your skull, then down your jaw bone and mouth and maybe still strong enough to broadcast into the mike which is usually very close if not contacting your mouth. Just a wild guess as to the problem..... Dave ___________________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "SIDESLIP" Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:17 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane grounded!! > > So, fellas, > > I figured I'd start a new thread about this, since I have narrowed the > issue down. > > So, the A200 was bench tested, and tested out fine. The only item that > seemed out of whack, was the side tone, which was set VERY high. I cleaned > the terminals on the back of the radio prior to install. I tightened the > radio into its tray firmly, and proceeded to test. The squeal seemed to be > gone on 129.10, both with engine running, and without. This problem I > BELIEVE is definitely a squelch problem. I transmitted the squeal, and > while mid transmit, unplugged the mic cord. The squeal stopped > immediately. Then I tried messing with different volume/squelch settings > on the flightcom. To no avail, squeal still present.... > > Here is where it gets weird.... I pulled the mic away from my face, NO > MORE SQUEAL! Well, very very little, and when I tapped the mic, it tried > to come back, but then faded. So, I figured, let's try the tower. I turned > my head looking over my right shoulder, and ZERO squeal. When I am facing > straight ahead, and get it to squeal, while it is mid squeal, I cover the > mic with my hand, and it deadens it considerably! > > IF this was wiring, here is how I disprove that theory.... > > The handheld transmits and receives PERFECTLY and gives 5/5 no matter > what! Worked seamless. Flip back to the A200, and squeal! Keep in mind, > the handheld is wired into the flightcom as well, and shares all of the > same wiring as the A200! So, the final question........ Could this be as > simple as the mic gain on the 200? With the engine running, there is zero > interference from the engine. On BOTH radios. I think that this proves > that the grounds are good, wiring is good and the flightcom is good. I > still get the strobe POP when they fire, but I get that SAME pop in the > Cessna 172M I fly! So, that is an acceptable noise for me. And since a > certified very high dollar factory built airplane has strobe noise, I'm > not too concerned about this one. It really is quiet. So...... MIC GAIN, > OR NOT TO MIC GAIN ADJUST? Or try changing antennas? Thoughts? After > changing the side tone, it is MUCH better. Still not acceptable, but it > DID get better. I've read a lot of people suggesting to a! > djust the mic gains, with great results for them, yet others say it won't > do a thing. It is DEFINITELY feedback like you'd hear from an amplifier > too close to an electric guitar. > > I feel that I'm right on the edge of solving this problem.....I'm > thinking, that if I can change antennas and that resolves it, it may be as > simple as a faulty antenna, or maybe even not the right one? > > It's would be great to hear some feedback from the pro Bob Nuckolls. > > > Thanks in advance!!! > > Chad Scriver > > -------- > C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387582#387582 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New LOMU member . . . From: Christopher Cee Stone Bob... The solder paste is in the .5 cc syringes etc. http://tinyurl.com/dyjlsrw I'll try the flux pen as well... I haven't been able to consistently get re-flow and good wetting as my trust Weller EC100 tip sometimes won't release the solder. Acts as if the surface tension on the solder melt wont't break. I'm hoping this new Metcal will improve this characteristic. I borrowed a tip from one of the older Metcal stations at work and will try it out. Thanks for your insights. chris * * * * > > The Metcal is the SP200. >> > > Okay, those are a different series of tips so > you'll have to flush those quail out of another > bush > > http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s > > > Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a > control function when the handpiece is holstered. > > Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the > manual > > http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p > > > Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my trusty >> Weller. Works fine most of the time. >> > > 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the > blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of > any form of additional flux on electronics > soldering. Many of the legacy products are > VERY effective for structural soldering where > the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but > are exceedingly conductive and corrosive. > > Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one > example of many. > > http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh > > It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the > surface and one of these pens will last you for > years as long as you don't leave the cap off. > > You will find that the smallest surface mount > joints can be made with no solder added to > a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23 > like devices. > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:43 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200/Flightcom 403 radio not transmitting- plane grounded!! From: "SIDESLIP" Dave..... This actually crossed my mind right away. Just wasn't sure, and thought it might be a reach. Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387705#387705 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New LOMU member . . . From: Sacha I think I'm also a new LOMU member... Just bought a second hand SP200 on ebay, had to pay up ($70) to get a 230VAC version and then some more for shipping to Italy (and will have to pay import duties, levy and 21% sales tax because the Italian customs are basically thieves), but I'm looking forward to it! Also ordered the other accessories (holder, a few tips) and will add a flux pen too. Sacha On 12/nov/2012, at 10:40, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > > At 05:11 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: >> The Metcal is the SP200. > > Okay, those are a different series of tips so > you'll have to flush those quail out of another > bush > > http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s > > Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a control function when the handpiece is holstered. > > Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the > manual > > http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p > > >> Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my trusty Weller. Works fine most of the time. > > 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the > blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of > any form of additional flux on electronics > soldering. Many of the legacy products are > VERY effective for structural soldering where > the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but > are exceedingly conductive and corrosive. > > Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one > example of many. > > http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh > > It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the > surface and one of these pens will last you for > years as long as you don't leave the cap off. > > You will find that the smallest surface mount > joints can be made with no solder added to > a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23 > like devices. > > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:37 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: New LOMU member . . . From: "Eric M. Jones" > Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a > control function when the handpiece is holstered. > > Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the > manual The stand has a big magnet in it that puts the station into "Sleep Mode", which lowers the temperature but does not turn the power off. This reduces heat-up time to a few seconds. See: www.okinternational.com/binary/articles/AutosleepWorkstands.pdf -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=387718#387718 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New LOMU member . . . From: Jared Yates It looks like I'll have to wait a few weeks to get one for myself, after the rest of the aeroelectric list members quit running up the ebay prices:) On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Sacha wrote: > > I think I'm also a new LOMU member... Just bought a second hand SP200 on ebay, had to pay up ($70) to get a 230VAC version and then some more for shipping to Italy (and will have to pay import duties, levy and 21% sales tax because the Italian customs are basically thieves), but I'm looking forward to it! Also ordered the other accessories (holder, a few tips) and will add a flux pen too. > > Sacha > > > On 12/nov/2012, at 10:40, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote: > >> >> At 05:11 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: >>> The Metcal is the SP200. >> >> Okay, those are a different series of tips so >> you'll have to flush those quail out of another >> bush >> >> http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s >> >> Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a control function when the handpiece is holstered. >> >> Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the >> manual >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p >> >> >>> Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my trusty Weller. Works fine most of the time. >> >> 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the >> blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of >> any form of additional flux on electronics >> soldering. Many of the legacy products are >> VERY effective for structural soldering where >> the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but >> are exceedingly conductive and corrosive. >> >> Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one >> example of many. >> >> http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh >> >> It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the >> surface and one of these pens will last you for >> years as long as you don't leave the cap off. >> >> You will find that the smallest surface mount >> joints can be made with no solder added to >> a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23 >> like devices. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:22 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New LOMU member . . . From: Christopher Cee Stone *http://tinyurl.com/adkgqow* * * *check it out...* * * *...chris * * * * * On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Jared Yates wrote: > > > > It looks like I'll have to wait a few weeks to get one for myself, > after the rest of the aeroelectric list members quit running up the > ebay prices:) > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Sacha wrote: > > > > I think I'm also a new LOMU member... Just bought a second hand SP200 on > ebay, had to pay up ($70) to get a 230VAC version and then some more for > shipping to Italy (and will have to pay import duties, levy and 21% sales > tax because the Italian customs are basically thieves), but I'm looking > forward to it! Also ordered the other accessories (holder, a few tips) and > will add a flux pen too. > > > > Sacha > > > > > > On 12/nov/2012, at 10:40, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" < > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > >> > >> At 05:11 PM 11/11/2012, you wrote: > >>> The Metcal is the SP200. > >> > >> Okay, those are a different series of tips so > >> you'll have to flush those quail out of another > >> bush > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/2vpw7s > >> > >> Also Eric chimed in that the holder is integral as it may provide a > control function when the handpiece is holstered. > >> > >> Hmmm . . . don't think so. It's not mentioned in the > >> manual > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/ab6sm7p > >> > >> > >>> Re SMT; I have been using paste on the pads and re-flowing with my > trusty Weller. Works fine most of the time. > >> > >> 'Paste'??? Like the black greasy stuff in the > >> blue snuff can? Be careful of the use of > >> any form of additional flux on electronics > >> soldering. Many of the legacy products are > >> VERY effective for structural soldering where > >> the surfaces are easily cleaned after . . . but > >> are exceedingly conductive and corrosive. > >> > >> Look for a "no-clean" flux pen. Here is one > >> example of many. > >> > >> http://tinyurl.com/ashqcvh > >> > >> It takes only the tiniest 'wetting' of the > >> surface and one of these pens will last you for > >> years as long as you don't leave the cap off. > >> > >> You will find that the smallest surface mount > >> joints can be made with no solder added to > >> a tin-lead plated board. This includes the SOT-23 > >> like devices. > >> > >> > >> Bob . . . > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.