Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:17 AM - Who is Matt Dralle & What Are The Lists? (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:55 AM - relay schematic? (Dan Billingsley)
2. 05:03 AM - Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! LOL (hooverra)
3. 06:17 AM - Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! LOL (Neal George)
4. 09:14 AM - Bench 24 volt battery / power supply (Andy Hawes)
5. 10:16 AM - Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 10:28 AM - Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply (FatBoy)
7. 01:04 PM - Battery Tender (Bill Hibbing)
8. 01:43 PM - Headphone power requirements (Peter Pengilly)
9. 04:12 PM - Re: Battery Tender (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 04:45 PM - Re: Headphone power requirements (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply (Andy Hawes)
13. 07:58 PM - Re: Battery Tender (Bill Hibbing)
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| Subject: | Who is Matt Dralle & What Are The Lists? |
Dear Listers,
Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists anyway? I've been working
in the Information Technology industry for over 28 years, primarily in computer
networking design and implementation and more recently as an embedded software
engineer. I have also done a fair amount of work in web design and development.
I started the Matronics Email Lists way back in 1990 shortly after I started building
my RV-4 with about 30 fellow RV builders from around the world. Since
that time, I have added many other types of aircraft related Lists to the line
up and numerous other List related services such as the Forums, Wiki, Archives
and Search Engine just to name a few.
For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers locally.
Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network
infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter,
a local T1 Internet router, and a bonded dual T1 commercial-grade business Internet
connection with full static addressing.
The computer servers include a dual quad-core Linux server for List web services
with 24GB of memory, a quad -core Linux system dedicated to the email processing
List functions, and another standalone Linux system serving as a remote storage
disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based
backup system with multi-terra byts of online storage. This entire system
is protected by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply systems
(UPS) that assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage!
Speaking of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these
systems. On the average, the elctric bill is in the neighborhood of $7000-$8000/yr
and the newly upgraded dual-T1 Internet connection runs roughly $6000/yr.
A while back, I upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new
power feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the
Computer Center for the Matronics Email Lists and followed that upgrade up with
a second rack upgrade to house the MONSTER web system that didn't quite fit
into the first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center prior
to the addition of the second rack:
http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg
As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to
providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister.
But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've mentioned many times
before, I don't use commercial advertisments to support any of these systems.
It is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you...
and you... and YOU!
To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make
a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding
system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running!
Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | relay schematic? |
I put this Q out a week ago but no reply...=0AStill looking for a schematic
to show how to wire an IVO PROP (in-flight) to stick controls. I'm fairly
sure I don't want to wire direct -to the small wires used in my Ray Allen
stick as current would or could cook them.-=0ABob, any magic links?=0ATh
anks,=0ADan-
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens! |
LOL
Altronix makes a number of Power Supply chargers of various capacities. Look for
AL400ULXB for a board only solution. They also have the same supply housed in
a steel cabinet. These are designed for the security and fire alarm business
and they have a great variety of options, capacity, packaging input voltage,
output voltage etc.
www.altronics.com
Ralph
--------
Ralph & Laura Hoover
RV7A N527LR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388102#388102
Message 3
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| Subject: | OT but electron related, I hate it when that |
happens! LOL
Chris - any chance you're looking for Bob's legacy home-brew battery capacity checker?
neal
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT but electron related, I hate it when that happens!
LOL
--> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>110 AC from a house circuit then to a control box (having a senior
>moment and cant for the life of me think of what this box is called)
>that routes a charging/maintaining current to a
>battery(s) and also provided 12V DC to an external device, then if the
>AC was removed the box would automatically provide power from the
>battery to the 12V circuit. I remember that it was a hardwired device
>and not just a simple plug this into that type of set up.
>Thanks for putting up with me wasting your time this morning.
No problem Chris . . . sorry that you felt
a duty to be so diligent in the self directed
search. One of the major assets embodied in the
List is a broad spectrum of random access to
data.
I don't recall the exchanges you're citing
but it sounds like you've got a 12v device
that needs un-interruptible power? How much
power does the device need, how long do you
need to support the device in case of power
failure? How big is your battery?
There are a number of power supplies that
could be combined with a relay or perhaps
a diode to effect the changeover. If we
had more details on your mission, perhaps
an elegant solution is readily at hand.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
Can anyone make a recommendation for a cost effective bench 24 volt power supply
or battery?
Thank you,
Andy Hawes
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
At 11:13 AM 11/16/2012, you wrote:
>
>Can anyone make a recommendation for a cost effective bench 24 volt
>power supply or battery?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Andy Hawes
How much current? What voltage range (adjustable?).
Current limited (short circuit proof?).
Other requirements not withstanding, these devices
are an exceptional value right now . . .
http://tinyurl.com/d63bggc
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
Thanks Bob -- Basically, I want to have something on the bench I can test anything
from the 10 amp pitot tube we talked about to avionics, to radios, etc.
I will be running a 24 volt system, so looking for a supply that can provide
24 volts and maybe up to 15 amps.
Thanks for the recommendation! If you have any other recommendations based on
what I've listed here, I'm game. Thanks again -- Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=388126#388126
Message 7
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I need some opinions on a non-aviation issue. I use a B&C RG battery in
my airplane and when I chenge them out I keep them for other uses. One
use a 12v Superwinch winch in my house to run a dumbwaiter up and down
and I keep the battery charged with a Battery Tender. OK, here's the
question...will the Battery Tender be damaged if I leave it connected
when I'm using the winch? This has me scratching my head. Bob, care to
chime in on this one? I'm just now setting up my circuitry so if it
needs to be disconnected I can set up a relay that will disconnect it
when the winch is active.
Bill
Glasair SIIS-FT
Message 8
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| Subject: | Headphone power requirements |
Hi,
I'm looking for some advice about headphone power requirements as for
some time I have been trying to find an in-ear type of headphone to use
under my helmet. I have a Halo headset, but if I ever have to jump out
something will hurt (but that's better than being dead). I want some
in-ear head phones with a straight connector that will dis-connect if I
ever jump - the mic side is already sorted using a motorcycle helmet
microphone.
I have found an in-ear phone company not too far away who claim between
25 and 40db of attenuation and who also say they provide equipment for
aviation use (http://www.ultimateear.com/pdf/SoundEar_data_sheet.pdf).
However when I asked if they could provide a set compatible with an
output suitable for a nominally 600 ohm headset they were a confused and
asked for the radio specs.
I emailed a Becker AR4201 spec sheet that lists the headphone output as,
"at 13.75V nominal operating voltage >= 100mW at 600 ohm ... dropping to
30mW at 10.0V"
Their comment is that their component supplier says,
"14V nominal drive is much higher than any of our receivers are supposed
to be driven at. Typical drive voltage is 0.1V which is 12dB below 10%
THD. 14 V is 140 times this or about 30dB above 10% THD."
I interpret the Becker spec to mean that when the bus voltage is 13.75V,
the output power is at least 100mW into 600 ohm. And that means the
headphones can expect to see 7.7v? Is that correct?
I was expecting the company to offer some kind of matching/attenuating
box - but I guess this is beyond their capability ...
Are we talking the same language here?
If Vern Little is reading this and has any of his small amplifiers in a
D-sub left on the shelf then I would really like one!
I really do not know much about audio systems, if anyone can provide
some advice I would be very grateful. There must be a simple way forward
(surely ...).
Regards, Peter
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Tender |
At 03:03 PM 11/16/2012, you wrote:
I need some opinions on a non-aviation issue. I use a B&C RG battery
in my airplane and when I chenge them out I keep them for other
uses. One use a 12v Superwinch winch in my house to run a dumbwaiter
up and down and I keep the battery charged with a Battery
Tender. OK, here's the question...will the Battery Tender be damaged
if I leave it connected when I'm using the winch?
No, you won't hurt it. I'm not aware of the Battery-Tender
response to a discharge event.
I'd not explored this characteristic with the Battery
Tender. I went out to the mess-shop and stuck a load tester
on a car battery that was being "Tended". 100A for 10
15 seconds. The 'charge' light came on and it appears
to be going through a normal charge/top-off cycle.
That's what I would have expected but had never done
that experiment.
This has me scratching my head. Bob, care to chime in on this
one? I'm just now setting up my circuitry so if it needs to be
disconnected I can set up a relay that will disconnect it when the
winch is active.
Not necessary. If you've not yet bought a B-T,
consider a Schumacher 1562 for $20 delivered to
a local WalMart store. Twice the output current
and about 2/3 the price of a B-T.
Whoops . . . I see some B-T's offered for $26 with
free shipping. They're feeling the pressure. B-T
performs as advertised; the 1562 is twice the snort
for less money.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Headphone power requirements |
I emailed a Becker AR4201 spec sheet that lists the headphone output as,
"at 13.75V nominal operating voltage >= 100mW at 600 ohm ... dropping
to 30mW at 10.0V"
Their comment is that their component supplier says,
"14V nominal drive is much higher than any of our receivers are
supposed to be driven at. Typical drive voltage is 0.1V which is 12dB
below 10% THD. 14 V is 140 times this or about 30dB above 10% THD."
These folks didn't understand what they read.
Their .1 v (presumed RMS) for 12 db (1/4 voltage)
below that which produces 10% total harmonic distortion
(diaphragm rattle). All this says nothing about what
you hear. I suspect that the 100 mv into one of those
devices would be painful for a normal hearing person.
Earbuds I have on hand measure about 20 ohms. Making
them to some higher resistance presents some interesting
trade offs. Higher resistance takes more turns of finer
wire (hard). Lower resistance is fewer turns but lower
sensitivity . . . but increased ability to deliver power
from a device operating on a single AA cell.
So if I were to take a WAG, the device you're considering
is about 20 ohms resistance. 100 mv rms into 20 ohms
is 1/2 milliwatt! That much power coupled right to the
ear canal is probably really loud.
I interpret the Becker spec to mean that when the bus voltage is
13.75V, the output power is at least 100mW into 600 ohm. And that
means the headphones can expect to see 7.7v? Is that correct?
Yes. The 'problem' is that we don't know what the real
output impedance is for the headset audio port. It's
PROBABLY pretty low . . . a hard connection to some
form of audio amplifier chip. A chip powered at
14v cannot deliver more that 14v pk-pk, or 5 volts
rms. So that 100 mw figure MIGHT be a peak value.
One never knows for sure without measuring.
In any case, your problem is no so much one of
impedance matching for maximum transfer of power
but one of attenuation that (1) avoids over load
of Becker audio output chips and (2) keeps the
vast majority of that 100 mW from being coupled
to your grey matter.
I was expecting the company to offer some kind of
matching/attenuating box - but I guess this is beyond their capability ...
Are we talking the same language here?
No . . . in fact, we're not sure what language Becker
is using either.
If Vern Little is reading this and has any of his small amplifiers in
a D-sub left on the shelf then I would really like one!
I really do not know much about audio systems, if anyone can provide
some advice I would be very grateful. There must be a simple way
forward (surely ...).
I'm 99% sure that you can experiment with a simple
series resistor between the Becker output and the
ear piece coil.
Starting with a 620 ohm resistor loads the Becker at
640 ohms. No risk. 7.7 VRMS into 620 gives you 12
mA RMS into the network. 12 ma across your 20
ohm ear piece coil produces 250 millivolts . . .
about 2.5 x that which the company claims some
'optimum' level of performance.
So backing your volume control off probably gets
things into the right church. Further fiddling
with the resistor might be necessary to get into
the right pew.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
At 12:27 PM 11/16/2012, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob -- Basically, I want to have something on the bench I
>can test anything from the 10 amp pitot tube we talked about to
>avionics, to radios, etc. I will be running a 24 volt system, so
>looking for a supply that can provide 24 volts and maybe up to 15 amps.
>
>Thanks for the recommendation! If you have any other
>recommendations based on what I've listed here, I'm game. Thanks
>again -- Andy
Okay. Test the pitot heater with a battery. The
cold resistance of that pitot tube is likely to
be on the order of 1/2 ohm. I.e. 56 amps inrush
to get it started.
I'm not sure there's any value in firing up the
pitot tube on the ground. If it has continuity at
something NOT a dead short . . . then the heater
is fine. Those take so much energy that they can
develop surface temps that discolors the chrome
unless they're cooled by in-flight airflow.
For all other testing, that power supply I suggested
would probably get you going.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Bench 24 volt battery / power supply |
ok -- had no idea it needed that kind of amperage to get going. I wonder how
long it needs to draw 56 amps? Thanks again for the referral -- on order now.
On Nov 16, 2012, at 6:52 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> At 12:27 PM 11/16/2012, you wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Bob -- Basically, I want to have something on the bench I can test
anything from the 10 amp pitot tube we talked about to avionics, to radios, etc.
I will be running a 24 volt system, so looking for a supply that can provide
24 volts and maybe up to 15 amps.
>>
>> Thanks for the recommendation! If you have any other recommendations based
on what I've listed here, I'm game. Thanks again -- Andy
>
> Okay. Test the pitot heater with a battery. The
> cold resistance of that pitot tube is likely to
> be on the order of 1/2 ohm. I.e. 56 amps inrush
> to get it started.
>
> I'm not sure there's any value in firing up the
> pitot tube on the ground. If it has continuity at
> something NOT a dead short . . . then the heater
> is fine. Those take so much energy that they can
> develop surface temps that discolors the chrome
> unless they're cooled by in-flight airflow.
>
> For all other testing, that power supply I suggested
> would probably get you going.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Tender |
Thanks Bob,
Actually, I have a 1562 that I keep on my airplane battery which replaced
the B-T that I'm using for my winch battery. I tried the B-T on the winch
battery with the winch operating and everything came back up to a good
charge. Whew, now I don't have to screw around with a disconnecting relay.
Bill
> Not necessary. If you've not yet bought a B-T,
> consider a Schumacher 1562 for $20 delivered to
> a local WalMart store. Twice the output current
> and about 2/3 the price of a B-T.
>
> Whoops . . . I see some B-T's offered for $26 with
> free shipping. They're feeling the pressure. B-T
> performs as advertised; the 1562 is twice the snort
> for less money.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
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