AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Fri 11/30/12


Total Messages Posted: 19



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 09:04 AM - [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
     1. 04:05 AM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Henador Titzoff)
     2. 05:44 AM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 05:44 AM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 06:39 AM - RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT (Chris)
     5. 08:05 AM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Dick Wildman)
     6. 08:26 AM - Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT (Tim Andres)
     7. 08:35 AM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Tim Andres)
     8. 10:48 AM - State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 10:53 AM - Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT (Chris)
    10. 11:44 AM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 12:01 PM - Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    12. 12:02 PM - Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    13. 12:23 PM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Kelly McMullen)
    14. 01:47 PM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (rayj)
    15. 02:00 PM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (rayj)
    16. 02:39 PM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    17. 03:04 PM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (rayj)
    18. 07:54 PM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 09:04:35 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser!
    Dear Listers, Its November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again; number 49 actually! But it also means that its that last official day of the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!! If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting it off for some reason, NOW is the time! I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want to be known as a person that supported the Lists! I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running and I don't ever forget it. The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making your Contribution right now: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you to all in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator


    Message 1


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    Time: 04:05:57 AM PST US
    From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks
    behind the panel Mr. Bill, - If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting off," I w ill suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has everything to do with your power system. If the transponder sometimes shuts off for no apparent reason, it adds credence to the power system being the culprit.- You eith er have an intermittent connection or a significant impedance somewhere in your power system such that it deprives the three units of sufficient volta ge to stay on. - If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I suggest that yo u grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage measurements throug hout the affected areas in order to find the high impedance.- If it canno t be duplicated on the ground, then a thorough analysis of what you have is in order, along with looking at each node to verify it is airworthy. - Good luck to you and your airplane. Henador Titzoff --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote: From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF le aks behind the panel outh.net> I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W mike is keyed.- I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garm in coax that is causing this shutdown.- I could be wrong because I have had occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason.- I just wanted to check for a leak. I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that helps. The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts! Bill B -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L . Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote: ><bbradburry@bellsouth.net> > >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this >task and how the testing is done. > >BillB - - What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances - - does it appear and on which radio? Have you - - stepped through the diagnostics described in - - the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether - - the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device - - is the victim? ---Bob . . . le, List Admin.


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:44:02 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks
    behind the panel At 04:49 PM 11/29/2012, you wrote: <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmin coax that is causing this shutdown. Reasonable hypothesis. What kind of airplane and where is your comm antenna located? Have you checked SWR on the comm antenna? I could be wrong because I have had occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just wanted to check for a leak. I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that helps. Interesting experiment. Coax cables with LOW SWR don't 'leak' If a substitute coax DOES help, it's more likely that you've got a poorly fabricated coax. The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts! It CAN be interesting . . . been there, done that . . . Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:44:43 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks
    behind the panel At 06:04 AM 11/30/2012, you wrote: >Mr. Bill, > >If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting >off," I will suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has >everything to do with your power system. If the transponder >sometimes shuts off for no apparent reason, it adds credence to the >power system being the culprit. You either have an intermittent >connection or a significant impedance somewhere in your power system >such that it deprives the three units of sufficient voltage to stay on. > >If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I suggest >that you grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage >measurements throughout the affected areas in order to find the high >impedance. If it cannot be duplicated on the ground, then a >thorough analysis of what you have is in order, along with looking >at each node to verify it is airworthy. > >Good luck to you and your airplane. > >Henador Titzoff > >--- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote: > >From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" >for RF leaks behind the panel >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM > ><<http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsouth.net>bbradburry@bellsouth.net> > >I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and >sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W >mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmin >coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because I have had >occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just >wanted to check for a leak. > >I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna >bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that >helps. > >The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts! > >Bill B > >-----Original Message----- >From: ><http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. >Nuckolls, III >Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM >To: ><http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF >leaks behind the panel > ><<http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > >At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote: > ><<http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsout > h.net>bbradburry@bellsouth.net> > > > >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this > >task and how the testing is done. > > > >BillB > > What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances > does it appear and on which radio? Have you > stepped through the diagnostics described in > the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether > the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device > is the victim? > > > Bob . . . > > ><http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.buildersbooks.com ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:39:58 AM PST US
    From: Chris <toaster73@embarqmail.com>
    Subject: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT
    As you may have seen I posted a problem related to RF interference on my fuel pressure reading provided by GRT EIS 6000 in an RV-10. The pressure would rise to about 45 psi from zero when PTT on the SL30 radio. Below is what I did thus far. First thing I did was play with the coax routing from the SL30 to its antenna which is a Bob Archer in the left wingtip. I moved the routing around inside the cabin only. I wonder if this means something about my coax connections or antenna, anyway I was initially getting about 45 psi rise max from zero with the PTT held in. After moving the coax wire around I get about 23 psi rise. The coax originally ran from the SL-30 pigtail at panel center along the back of the RV-10 sub panel but kind of out in space then turned to go down the side of the fuselage and then out into the wing. It passed behind the EIS box by about a 10 inches along that sub panel route. As it turned to go down the left fuselage wall it passed by fuel pressure wires coming through the firewall. The re-route just has it going along the firewall (interior) instead of the subpanel which moves it further from the EIS. It shares some ground wire bundles and is not out in space. The next thing I did was put the larger (coax size) radio shack ferrite choke around the wires coming out of the sender with a loop around the choke so the wires go through twice. I had bought two smaller chokes (they come 2 to a pack) and I put them just outside the d-sub going into the back of the EIS. I looped the 12 volt regulated supply through one and the signal wire was looped through the second choke. With all that I am down to about 5 psi rise from zero. The funny thing is I had also noticed a movement of -1 or -2 amps with PTT also but didnt really care about that. But with the 2 smaller chokes around the 12V power and the signal now my amps and fuel pressure move -5 amps and fuel pressure to +5 and they track together. So probably have some trials to do with those chokes such as one or the other or whatever, maybe a third loop. And also check the coax run to the antenna and SWR when I can. Since I need to get the plane up in the next several days I am calling it good for now. Of course all this could change when I crank up and go fly, but I think I made some headway. At least the high fuel pressure warning probably will not light up now. -Chris Lucas N919AR RV-10 in first conditional inspection


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:05:09 AM PST US
    From: "Dick Wildman" <dick@minetfiber.com>
    Subject: Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks
    behind the panel Hello; I had a very similar problem on an RV-6. After a lot of trouble shooting I was under the panel when a wire I was touching moved. It was the main feed to the buss that supplied the radios. It was snug tight but not really tight and could be moved. My transponder and Comm would shut down in flight. I tightened the connection and never had the radios power off again in flight again. Dick Wildman ----- Original Message ----- From: Henador Titzoff To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:04 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel Mr. Bill, If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting off," I will suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has everything to do with your power system. If the transponder sometimes shuts off for no apparent reason, it adds credence to the power system being the culprit. You either have an intermittent connection or a significant impedance somewhere in your power system such that it deprives the three units of sufficient voltage to stay on. If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I suggest that you grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage measurements throughout the affected areas in order to find the high impedance. If it cannot be duplicated on the ground, then a thorough analysis of what you have is in order, along with looking at each node to verify it is airworthy. Good luck to you and your airplane. Henador Titzoff --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote: From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmin coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because I have had occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just wanted to check for a leak. I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that helps. The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts! Bill B -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote: ><bbradburry@bellsouth.net> > >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this >task and how the testing is done. > >BillB What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances does it appear and on which radio? Have you stepped through the diagnostics described in the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device is the victim? Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:26:15 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    If it makes you feel better I have the same problem. On mine it only occurs when on the upper end of the band, like center frequencies above 130 MHz, and happens when I key either the 430W or Icom A210 on those upper frequencies. I spoke to Carlos at GRT about this and he suggested the split ferrite that you have tried. I have not attempted to fix it yet and was about to ask the group what specs I need when I buy it. I wonder if a small capacitor could be used to drain off the RF since the torrid didn't work. It could be installed inside the D-sub between the fuel sensor pin and ground. Can anyone here tell if this might work and if so what cap to use? Thanks, Tim Sent from my iPad On Nov 30, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Chris <toaster73@embarqmail.com> wrote: > > > As you may have seen I posted a problem related to RF interference on my fuel pressure reading provided by GRT EIS 6000 in an RV-10. The pressure would rise to about 45 psi from zero when PTT on the SL30 radio. > > Below is what I did thus far. > > First thing I did was play with the coax routing from the SL30 to its antenna which is a Bob Archer in the left wingtip. I moved the routing around inside the cabin only. I wonder if this means something about my coax connections or antenna, anyway I was initially getting about 45 psi rise max from zero with the PTT held in. After moving the coax wire around I get about 23 psi rise. > > The coax originally ran from the SL-30 pigtail at panel center along the back of the RV-10 sub panel but kind of out in space then turned to go down the side of the fuselage and then out into the wing. It passed behind the EIS box by about a 10 inches along that sub panel route. As it turned to go down the left fuselage wall it passed by fuel pressure wires coming through the firewall. > > The re-route just has it going along the firewall (interior) instead of the subpanel which moves it further from the EIS. It shares some ground wire bundles and is not out in space. > > The next thing I did was put the larger (coax size) radio shack ferrite choke around the wires coming out of the sender with a loop around the choke so the wires go through twice. I had bought two smaller chokes (they come 2 to a pack) and I put them just outside the d-sub going into the back of the EIS. I looped the 12 volt regulated supply through one and the signal wire was looped through the second choke. With all that I am down to about 5 psi rise from zero. The funny thing is I had also noticed a movement of -1 or -2 amps with PTT also but didnt really care about that. But with the 2 smaller chokes around the 12V power and the signal now my amps and fuel pressure move -5 amps and fuel pressure to +5 and they track together. So probably have some trials to do with those chokes such as one or the other or whatever, maybe a third loop. And also check the coax run to the antenna and SWR when I can. > Since I need to get the plane up in the next several days I am calling it good for now. Of course all this could change when I crank up and go fly, but I think I made some headway. At least the high fuel pressure warning probably will not light up now. > > -Chris Lucas > N919AR > RV-10 in first conditional inspection > > > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:35:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks
    behind the panel
    From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
    I think Hernador hit the nail on the head, but dont forget the ground side o f the circuit. You are probably looking for a bad crimp somewhere. Get in th ere and start tugging on wires near crimped connectors while monitoring the a vionics. Tim Sent from my iPad On Nov 30, 2012, at 8:03 AM, "Dick Wildman" <dick@minetfiber.com> wrote: > Hello; > > I had a very similar problem on an RV-6. After a lot of trouble shooti ng I was under the panel when a wire I was touching moved. It was the main f eed to the buss that supplied the radios. It was snug tight but not really t ight and could be moved. My transponder and Comm would shut down in flight. I tightened the connection and never had the radios power off again in flig ht again. > > Dick Wildman > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Henador Titzoff > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:04 AM > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF l eaks behind the panel > > Mr. Bill, > > If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting off," I w ill suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has everything to do with y our power system. If the transponder sometimes shuts off for no apparent rea son, it adds credence to the power system being the culprit. You either hav e an intermittent connection or a significant impedance somewhere in your po wer system such that it deprives the three units of sufficient voltage to st ay on. > > If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I suggest that y ou grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage measurements throug hout the affected areas in order to find the high impedance. If it cannot b e duplicated on the ground, then a thorough analysis of what you have is in o rder, along with looking at each node to verify it is airworthy. > > Good luck to you and your airplane. > > Henador Titzoff > > --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF l eaks behind the panel > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM > south.net> > > I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and > sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W > mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmi n > coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because I have had > occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just > wanted to check for a leak. > > I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna > bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if tha t > helps. > > The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts! > > Bill B > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L . > Nuckolls, III > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF > leaks behind the panel > > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote: > ><bbradburry@bellsouth.net> > > > >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this > >task and how the testing is done. > > > >BillB > > What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances > does it appear and on which radio? Have you > stepped through the diagnostics described in > the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether > the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device > is the victim? > > > Bob . . . > > > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= >


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:48:39 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project
    Just finished some testing of an almost-ready-for- prime-time board assembly. Thermal performance for the power transistors that control lamps says we can use this board for 100w tungsten landing/taxi lamps too. The thing fits into our standard 15-pin enclosure Emacs! I've got it running on the bench right now flashing 55w halogen lamps. They look pretty good in the triple- flash mode too. So it will be up to the user. LED or Tungsten, single or triple flash wig-wag. I'm working on the installation documents and hope to publish to the catalog yet today. I'll also be publishing the software, ecb layout and bills of materials under the open source philosophy. The software allows control of landing/taxi lights from a single, two-pole, progressive transfer switch. Down = OFF Mid = Taxi Up (after 1 second) = Taxi + Landing Moving directly from OFF to full up will get you Wig Wag operations. A jumper in the plug will choose either single or triple-flash operation. Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:53:26 AM PST US
    From: Chris <toaster73@embarqmail.com>
    Subject: Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT
    Another post on similar subject suggested a .1 micro F cap. I might try that too at some later date. I just bought what radio shack had for ferrite and saw them in the archives on RF interference. I guess some calcualtions could be made to figure out the optimum inductance(?) but...I just tried it, as is, to see what happen and got some results. -Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 11:25:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT If it makes you feel better I have the same problem. On mine it only occurs when on the upper end of the band, like center frequencies above 130 MHz, and happens when I key either the 430W or Icom A210 on those upper frequencies. I spoke to Carlos at GRT about this and he suggested the split ferrite that you have tried. I have not attempted to fix it yet and was about to ask the group what specs I need when I buy it. I wonder if a small capacitor could be used to drain off the RF since the torrid didn't work. It could be installed inside the D-sub between the fuel sensor pin and ground. Can anyone here tell if this might work and if so what cap to use? Thanks, Tim Sent from my iPad On Nov 30, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Chris <toaster73@embarqmail.com> wrote: > > > As you may have seen I posted a problem related to RF interference on my fuel pressure reading provided by GRT EIS 6000 in an RV-10. The pressure would rise to about 45 psi from zero when PTT on the SL30 radio. > > Below is what I did thus far. > > First thing I did was play with the coax routing from the SL30 to its antenna which is a Bob Archer in the left wingtip. I moved the routing around inside the cabin only. I wonder if this means something about my coax connections or antenna, anyway I was initially getting about 45 psi rise max from zero with the PTT held in. After moving the coax wire around I get about 23 psi rise. > > The coax originally ran from the SL-30 pigtail at panel center along the back of the RV-10 sub panel but kind of out in space then turned to go down the side of the fuselage and then out into the wing. It passed behind the EIS box by about a 10 inches along that sub panel route. As it turned to go down the left fuselage wall it passed by fuel pressure wires coming through the firewall. > > The re-route just has it going along the firewall (interior) instead of the subpanel which moves it further from the EIS. It shares some ground wire bundles and is not out in space. > > The next thing I did was put the larger (coax size) radio shack ferrite choke around the wires coming out of the sender with a loop around the choke so the wires go through twice. I had bought two smaller chokes (they come 2 to a pack) and I put them just outside the d-sub going into the back of the EIS. I looped the 12 volt regulated supply through one and the signal wire was looped through the second choke. With all that I am down to about 5 psi rise from zero. The funny thing is I had also noticed a movement of -1 or -2 amps with PTT also but didnt really care about that. But with the 2 smaller chokes around the 12V power and the signal now my amps and fuel pressure move -5 amps and fuel pressure to +5 and they track together. So probably have some trials to do with those chokes such as one or the other or whatever, maybe a third loop. And also check the coax run to the antenna and SWR when I can. > Since I need to get the plane up in the next several days I am calling it good for now. Of course all this could change when I crank up and go fly, but I think I made some headway. At least the high fuel pressure warning probably will not light up now. > > -Chris Lucas > N919AR > RV-10 in first conditional inspection > > > > > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:44:55 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project
    At 12:47 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote: >Just finished some testing of an almost-ready-for- >prime-time board assembly. Thermal performance for >the power transistors that control lamps says we >can use this board for 100w tungsten landing/taxi >lamps too. Here's a video of the POC board driving 55w halogen lamps in a triple-flash mode. http://tinyurl.com/co3zxaq Bob . . .


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:01:07 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT
    At 10:25 AM 11/30/2012, you wrote: > >If it makes you feel better I have the same problem. On mine it only >occurs when on the upper end of the band, like center frequencies >above 130 MHz, and happens when I key either the 430W or Icom A210 >on those upper frequencies. > I spoke to Carlos at GRT about this and he suggested the split > ferrite that you have tried. I have not attempted to fix it yet and > was about to ask the group what specs I need when I buy it. >I wonder if a small capacitor could be used to drain off the RF >since the torrid didn't work. It could be installed inside the D-sub >between the fuel sensor pin and ground. Can anyone here tell if this >might work and if so what cap to use? The value of such capacitors is not so critical as their construction. A few days ago I published a capacitors-in-the-connector fix that I crafted on a Hawker 800 a few years back. See http://tinyurl.com/dxeuj6b and scroll down to bottom for pictures. Those capacitor were monolythic ceramics, 0.1 uF at 50 volts. But probably any value between 0.01 and 0.47 would have worked. What we're interested in is tiny size so that they can make short lead connection to the pin and low inductance characteristics for which the monolythic construction is noted. Radio Shack used to stock a 0.1 uf cerami (about 1.5 times size of a paper match head). Here's an exemplar part http://tinyurl.com/bsk27pw Ferrites are a whole other ball game. They tend to improve on an RFI problem with a combination of two characteristics. (1) they add a lumped inductance into the wire or wires that are coupling the energy into the victim (or out of the antagonist). (2) Ferrites designed for RFI mitigation are TERRIBLE transformer cores. I.e. they're designed to be very lossy at the frequencies of interest. By lossy, we mean that energy coupled into the core is converted to heat. BOTH effects are enhanced by the capacitor that lowers the parallel impedance against which the series impedance of the ferrite can work. The BEST ferrite in the world does nothing if the downstream path to the victim is a high impedance at the frequency of interest. This is why the odds are so long that ferrites alone will fix a problem. The problem would not have existed had the victim's i/o leads been designed for that environment in the first place. So the best moves call for capacitors first with ferrites stacked on top. Bob . . .


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:02:52 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT
    At 12:53 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote: > >Another post on similar subject suggested a .1 micro F cap. I might >try that too at some later date. I just bought what radio shack had >for ferrite and saw them in the archives on RF interference. I guess >some calcualtions could be made to figure out the optimum >inductance(?) but...I just tried it, as is, to see what happen and >got some results. This is not a calculable scenario since you don't have hard data as to the degree of attenuation necessary for acceptable results. This is very much a cut-n-try endeavor. Bob . . .


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:23:29 PM PST US
    From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
    Subject: Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks
    behind the panel Very possibly a poor shield connection on the antenna coax. Long time ago I had similar problems, found my radio worked fine in another aircraft, so looked hard and found a cold solder joint where shield had been soldered on antenna coax at connection to radio. On 11/30/2012 9:34 AM, Tim Andres wrote: > I think Hernador hit the nail on the head, but dont forget the ground > side of the circuit. You are probably looking for a bad crimp > somewhere. Get in there and start tugging on wires near crimped > connectors while monitoring the avionics. > Tim > Sent from my iPad > > On Nov 30, 2012, at 8:03 AM, "Dick Wildman" <dick@minetfiber.com > <mailto:dick@minetfiber.com>> wrote: > >> Hello; >> I had a very similar problem on an RV-6. After a lot of trouble >> shooting I was under the panel when a wire I was touching moved. It >> was the main feed to the buss that supplied the radios. It was snug >> tight but not really tight and could be moved. My transponder and >> Comm would shut down in flight. I tightened the connection and never >> had the radios power off again in flight again. >> Dick Wildman >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Henador Titzoff <mailto:henador_titzoff@yahoo.com> >> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >> *Sent:* Friday, November 30, 2012 4:04 AM >> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to >> "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel >> >> Mr. Bill, >> If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting >> off," I will suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has >> everything to do with your power system. If the transponder >> sometimes shuts off for no apparent reason, it adds credence to >> the power system being the culprit. You either have an >> intermittent connection or a significant impedance somewhere in >> your power system such that it deprives the three units of >> sufficient voltage to stay on. >> If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I >> suggest that you grab a competent airport bum to help you make >> voltage measurements throughout the affected areas in order to >> find the high impedance. If it cannot be duplicated on the >> ground, then a thorough analysis of what you have is in order, >> along with looking at each node to verify it is airworthy. >> Good luck to you and your airplane. >> >> Henador Titzoff >> >> --- On *Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry /<bbradburry@bellsouth.net >> <mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net>>/* wrote: >> >> >> From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net >> <mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net>> >> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to >> "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >> Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM >> >> <bbradburry@bellsouth.net >> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsouth.net>> >> >> I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 >> moving map, and >> sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the >> Garmin DNS 430W >> mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak >> from the Garmin >> coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because >> I have had >> occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent >> reason. I just >> wanted to check for a leak. >> >> I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight >> to the antenna >> bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order >> to see if that >> helps. >> >> The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts! >> >> Bill B >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] >> On Behalf Of Robert L. >> Nuckolls, III >> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=aeroelectric-list@matronics.com> >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to >> "Sniff" for RF >> leaks behind the panel >> >> III" >> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com >> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>> >> >> At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote: >> ><bbradburry@bellsouth.net >> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsouth.net>> >> > >> >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to >> accomplish this >> >task and how the testing is done. >> > >> >BillB >> >> What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances >> does it appear and on which radio? Have you >> stepped through the diagnostics described in >> the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether >> the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device >> is the victim? >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com> >> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com> >> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> >> * >> >> * >> >> >> * > * > > > * ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com


    Message 14


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    Time: 01:47:36 PM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project


    Message 15


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    Time: 02:00:49 PM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project
    Greetings all, I was wondering if there is a standard way of placarding the switch for an item like this. Obviously just indicating positions doesn't do it. I'm wondering if there is a standard format for displaying the time dependent nature of the switch's function. If none exists, perhaps it is something that could be developed by this list. I personally don't like this sort of time dependent function control. I'd rather have 2 switches or a rotary switch. I recognise this is the way things are done with a minimum of hardware, but I just thought I'd take this opportunity to grumble and complain about it. :-) Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/30/2012 12:47 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > Just finished some testing of an almost-ready-for- > prime-time board assembly. Thermal performance for > the power transistors that control lamps says we > can use this board for 100w tungsten landing/taxi > lamps too. > > The thing fits into our standard 15-pin enclosure =================Deleted image to allow reply.============== > > I've got it running on the bench right now flashing > 55w halogen lamps. They look pretty good in the triple- > flash mode too. So it will be up to the user. LED or > Tungsten, single or triple flash wig-wag. > > I'm working on the installation documents and hope to > publish to the catalog yet today. I'll also be publishing > the software, ecb layout and bills of materials under > the open source philosophy. > > The software allows control of landing/taxi lights from > a single, two-pole, progressive transfer switch. > > Down = OFF > > Mid = Taxi > > Up (after 1 second) = Taxi + Landing > > Moving directly from OFF to full up > will get you Wig Wag operations. > > A jumper in the plug will choose either single > or triple-flash operation. > > Bob . . . >


    Message 16


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    Time: 02:39:49 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project
    At 03:59 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote: >Greetings all, > >I was wondering if there is a standard way of placarding the switch >for an item like this. Obviously just indicating positions doesn't do it. Sure. ----- WIG/WAG ----- LANDING TAXI O O OFF OFF Would be pretty graphic for a pair of switches. > I'm wondering if there is a standard format for displaying the > time dependent nature of the switch's function. If none exists, > perhaps it is something that could be developed by this list. > >I personally don't like this sort of time dependent function >control. I'd rather have 2 switches or a rotary switch. I recognise >this is the way things are done with a minimum of hardware, but I >just thought I'd take this opportunity to grumble and complain about it. :-) It's not a 'complex' time function. If you had separate landing and taxi light switches, you turn on either one, pause 1 second and turn on the second and you get both lights on steady. If they're side by side, you flip them both up at the same time and you've got wig-wag. You CAN treat this as a raw flasher and let it run all the time in the desired wig-wag mode and use switches OUTSIDE the controller's logic features to produce what ever switch functionality you wish. The installation options will describe these features in detail. It was originally intended to be an alterative to the integration snafu that we encountered with the automotive, 3-terminal relay flashers with LED landing lights. But as we pondered the features available in software and how much hardware would fit into the stock enclosure, it ended up being pretty much a one- size-fits-all for both LED/Tungsten and a host of control options. Bob . . .


    Message 17


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    Time: 03:04:01 PM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project
    My question was how do you placard the single switch operation: The software allows control of landing/taxi lights from a single, two-pole, progressive transfer switch. Down = OFF Mid = Taxi Up (after 1 second) = Taxi + Landing **************** OR ********************** Moving directly from OFF to full up will get you Wig Wag operations. Agreed, it's not a "complex" timing control. How does a pilot looking at that switch, or switches, for the 1st time know that the same switch position represents a different function depending on the time between changing of switch positions? It's not a 'complex' time function. If you had separate landing and taxi light switches, you turn on either one, pause 1 second and turn on the second and you get both lights on steady. If they're side by side, you flip them both up at the same time and you've got wig-wag. I suppose you could placard it "RTFM" but that seems less than optimal. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 11/30/2012 04:39 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > At 03:59 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote: >> Greetings all, >> >> I was wondering if there is a standard way of placarding the switch >> for an item like this. Obviously just indicating positions doesn't >> do it. > > Sure. > > ----- WIG/WAG ----- > LANDING TAXI > > O O > > OFF OFF > > Would be pretty graphic for a pair > of switches. > >> I'm wondering if there is a standard format for displaying the time >> dependent nature of the switch's function. If none exists, perhaps >> it is something that could be developed by this list. >> >> I personally don't like this sort of time dependent function control. >> I'd rather have 2 switches or a rotary switch. I recognise this is >> the way things are done with a minimum of hardware, but I just >> thought I'd take this opportunity to grumble and complain about it. :-) > > It's not a 'complex' time function. If you had > separate landing and taxi light switches, you turn > on either one, pause 1 second and turn on the > second and you get both lights on steady. If they're > side by side, you flip them both up at the same time > and you've got wig-wag. > > You CAN treat this as a raw flasher and let it run > all the time in the desired wig-wag mode and use > switches OUTSIDE the controller's logic features > to produce what ever switch functionality you wish. > > The installation options will describe these features > in detail. It was originally intended to be an alterative > to the integration snafu that we encountered with the > automotive, 3-terminal relay flashers with LED landing > lights. But as we pondered the features available in > software and how much hardware would fit into the > stock enclosure, it ended up being pretty much a one- > size-fits-all for both LED/Tungsten and a host of > control options. > > Bob . . . > > * > > > *


    Message 18


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    Time: 07:54:38 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project
    > >Agreed, it's not a "complex" timing control. How does a pilot >looking at that switch, or switches, for the 1st time know that the >same switch position represents a different function depending on >the time between changing of switch positions? There are things about some airplanes that one finds out by reading a POH . . . or getting checked out by a pilot with experience with the airplane. The J-3 I owned was hard to get started in cold weather unless you knew the 'trick'. I would never have known about it if the guy who checked me out in it hadn't told me how to do it. Some owners have 'hidden' battery master or starter switches to discourage theft. The time dependent control has some appeal for the single switch control option which is indeed a new thing. Until this new feature became a reality, it was pretty common to have one switch per lamp and some combination of positions for individual operation + wig-wag mode. Emacs! But there's probably no clear placarding to describe this operation. I'll bet owner of the airplane won't have any problem with it should he choose to use a single switch option. If both lights are aimed the same, then perhaps a separate taxi position isn't needed. You could have a single three position switch that would control both lights on at the same time or wig-wag. Probably the only time you'd have a separate taxi light is with a tail dragger where taxi lights are usually aimed lower for good illumination on the ground. Bob . . .




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