Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 09:04 AM - [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:05 AM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Henador Titzoff)
2. 05:44 AM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:44 AM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 06:39 AM - RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT (Chris)
5. 08:05 AM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Dick Wildman)
6. 08:26 AM - Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT (Tim Andres)
7. 08:35 AM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Tim Andres)
8. 10:48 AM - State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 10:53 AM - Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT (Chris)
10. 11:44 AM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 12:01 PM - Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 12:02 PM - Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 12:23 PM - Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel (Kelly McMullen)
14. 01:47 PM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (rayj)
15. 02:00 PM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (rayj)
16. 02:39 PM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 03:04 PM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (rayj)
18. 07:54 PM - Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 0
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Subject: | [Please Read] - Last Official Day of List Fund Raiser! |
Dear Listers,
Its November 30th and that always means a couple of things. Its my birthday again;
number 49 actually! But it also means that its that last official day of
the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser! If you been thinking about picking up
one of those really nice incentive gifts now is the time to jump on it!!
If you've been meaning to make a Contribution this month but have been putting
it off for some reason, NOW is the time!
I will be posting the List of Contributors in a few days, so you'll probably want
to be known as a person that supported the Lists!
I want to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution this year in
support of our Lists. It is your generosity that keeps this operation running
and I don't ever forget it.
The List Contribution Web Site is fast and easy. Please support our habit by making
your Contribution right now:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you to all in advance!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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Subject: | Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
Mr. Bill,
-
If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting off," I w
ill suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has everything to do with
your power system. If the transponder sometimes shuts off for no apparent
reason, it adds credence to the power system being the culprit.- You eith
er have an intermittent connection or a significant impedance somewhere in
your power system such that it deprives the three units of sufficient volta
ge to stay on.
-
If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I suggest that yo
u grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage measurements throug
hout the affected areas in order to find the high impedance.- If it canno
t be duplicated on the ground, then a thorough analysis of what you have is
in order, along with looking at each node to verify it is airworthy.
-
Good luck to you and your airplane.
Henador Titzoff
--- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF le
aks behind the panel
outh.net>
I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and
sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W
mike is keyed.- I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garm
in
coax that is causing this shutdown.- I could be wrong because I have had
occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason.- I just
wanted to check for a leak.
I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna
bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that
helps.
The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L
.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF
leaks behind the panel
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
><bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
>Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this
>task and how the testing is done.
>
>BillB
- - What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
- - does it appear and on which radio? Have you
- - stepped through the diagnostics described in
- - the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
- - the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
- - is the victim?
---Bob . . .
le, List Admin.
Message 2
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Subject: | Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
At 04:49 PM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
<bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and
sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W
mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmin
coax that is causing this shutdown.
Reasonable hypothesis. What kind of airplane and where
is your comm antenna located?
Have you checked SWR on the comm antenna?
I could be wrong because I have had
occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just
wanted to check for a leak.
I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna
bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that
helps.
Interesting experiment. Coax cables with LOW SWR don't
'leak' If a substitute coax DOES help, it's more likely
that you've got a poorly fabricated coax.
The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
It CAN be interesting . . . been there, done that . . .
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
At 06:04 AM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>Mr. Bill,
>
>If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting
>off," I will suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has
>everything to do with your power system. If the transponder
>sometimes shuts off for no apparent reason, it adds credence to the
>power system being the culprit. You either have an intermittent
>connection or a significant impedance somewhere in your power system
>such that it deprives the three units of sufficient voltage to stay on.
>
>If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I suggest
>that you grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage
>measurements throughout the affected areas in order to find the high
>impedance. If it cannot be duplicated on the ground, then a
>thorough analysis of what you have is in order, along with looking
>at each node to verify it is airworthy.
>
>Good luck to you and your airplane.
>
>Henador Titzoff
>
>--- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff"
>for RF leaks behind the panel
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM
>
><<http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsouth.net>bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
>I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and
>sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W
>mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmin
>coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because I have had
>occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just
>wanted to check for a leak.
>
>I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna
>bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if that
>helps.
>
>The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
>
>Bill B
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:
><http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
>Nuckolls, III
>Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
>To:
><http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF
>leaks behind the panel
>
><<http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
> ><<http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsout
> h.net>bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this
> >task and how the testing is done.
> >
> >BillB
>
> What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
> does it appear and on which radio? Have you
> stepped through the diagnostics described in
> the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
> the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
> is the victim?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
><http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.buildersbooks.com
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - <http://www.avg.com>www.avg.com
Bob . . .
Message 4
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Subject: | RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT |
As you may have seen I posted a problem related to RF interference on my fuel pressure
reading provided by GRT EIS 6000 in an RV-10. The pressure would rise
to about 45 psi from zero when PTT on the SL30 radio.
Below is what I did thus far.
First thing I did was play with the coax routing from the SL30 to its antenna which
is a Bob Archer in the left wingtip. I moved the routing around inside the
cabin only. I wonder if this means something about my coax connections or antenna,
anyway I was initially getting about 45 psi rise max from zero with the
PTT held in. After moving the coax wire around I get about 23 psi rise.
The coax originally ran from the SL-30 pigtail at panel center along the back of
the RV-10 sub panel but kind of out in space then turned to go down the side
of the fuselage and then out into the wing. It passed behind the EIS box by
about a 10 inches along that sub panel route. As it turned to go down the left
fuselage wall it passed by fuel pressure wires coming through the firewall.
The re-route just has it going along the firewall (interior) instead of the subpanel
which moves it further from the EIS. It shares some ground wire bundles
and is not out in space.
The next thing I did was put the larger (coax size) radio shack ferrite choke around
the wires coming out of the sender with a loop around the choke so the wires
go through twice. I had bought two smaller chokes (they come 2 to a pack)
and I put them just outside the d-sub going into the back of the EIS. I looped
the 12 volt regulated supply through one and the signal wire was looped through
the second choke. With all that I am down to about 5 psi rise from zero.
The funny thing is I had also noticed a movement of -1 or -2 amps with PTT also
but didnt really care about that. But with the 2 smaller chokes around the
12V power and the signal now my amps and fuel pressure move -5 amps and fuel pressure
to +5 and they track together. So probably have some trials to do with
those chokes such as one or the other or whatever, maybe a third loop. And also
check the coax run to the antenna and SWR when I can.
Since I need to get the plane up in the next several days I am calling it good
for now. Of course all this could change when I crank up and go fly, but I think
I made some headway. At least the high fuel pressure warning probably will
not light up now.
-Chris Lucas
N919AR
RV-10 in first conditional inspection
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
Hello;
I had a very similar problem on an RV-6. After a lot of trouble
shooting I was under the panel when a wire I was touching moved. It was
the main feed to the buss that supplied the radios. It was snug tight
but not really tight and could be moved. My transponder and Comm would
shut down in flight. I tightened the connection and never had the
radios power off again in flight again.
Dick Wildman
----- Original Message -----
From: Henador Titzoff
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:04 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for
RF leaks behind the panel
Mr. Bill,
If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items
"shutting off," I will suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has
everything to do with your power system. If the transponder sometimes
shuts off for no apparent reason, it adds credence to the power system
being the culprit. You either have an intermittent connection or a
significant impedance somewhere in your power system such that it
deprives the three units of sufficient voltage to stay on.
If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I
suggest that you grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage
measurements throughout the affected areas in order to find the high
impedance. If it cannot be duplicated on the ground, then a thorough
analysis of what you have is in order, along with looking at each node
to verify it is airworthy.
Good luck to you and your airplane.
Henador Titzoff
--- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to
"Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM
<bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150
moving map, and
sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the
Garmin DNS 430W
mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak
from the Garmin
coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because
I have had
occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent
reason. I just
wanted to check for a leak.
I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to
the antenna
bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order
to see if that
helps.
The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to
"Sniff" for RF
leaks behind the panel
III"
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
><bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
>
>Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to
accomplish this
>task and how the testing is done.
>
>BillB
What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
does it appear and on which radio? Have you
stepped through the diagnostics described in
the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
is the victim?
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT |
If it makes you feel better I have the same problem. On mine it only occurs when
on the upper end of the band, like center frequencies above 130 MHz, and happens
when I key either the 430W or Icom A210 on those upper frequencies.
I spoke to Carlos at GRT about this and he suggested the split ferrite that you
have tried. I have not attempted to fix it yet and was about to ask the group
what specs I need when I buy it.
I wonder if a small capacitor could be used to drain off the RF since the torrid
didn't work. It could be installed inside the D-sub between the fuel sensor
pin and ground. Can anyone here tell if this might work and if so what cap to
use?
Thanks,
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 30, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Chris <toaster73@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> As you may have seen I posted a problem related to RF interference on my fuel
pressure reading provided by GRT EIS 6000 in an RV-10. The pressure would rise
to about 45 psi from zero when PTT on the SL30 radio.
>
> Below is what I did thus far.
>
> First thing I did was play with the coax routing from the SL30 to its antenna
which is a Bob Archer in the left wingtip. I moved the routing around inside
the cabin only. I wonder if this means something about my coax connections or
antenna, anyway I was initially getting about 45 psi rise max from zero with
the PTT held in. After moving the coax wire around I get about 23 psi rise.
>
> The coax originally ran from the SL-30 pigtail at panel center along the back
of the RV-10 sub panel but kind of out in space then turned to go down the side
of the fuselage and then out into the wing. It passed behind the EIS box
by about a 10 inches along that sub panel route. As it turned to go down the
left fuselage wall it passed by fuel pressure wires coming through the firewall.
>
> The re-route just has it going along the firewall (interior) instead of the subpanel
which moves it further from the EIS. It shares some ground wire bundles
and is not out in space.
>
> The next thing I did was put the larger (coax size) radio shack ferrite choke
around the wires coming out of the sender with a loop around the choke so the
wires go through twice. I had bought two smaller chokes (they come 2 to a pack)
and I put them just outside the d-sub going into the back of the EIS. I looped
the 12 volt regulated supply through one and the signal wire was looped through
the second choke. With all that I am down to about 5 psi rise from zero.
The funny thing is I had also noticed a movement of -1 or -2 amps with PTT
also but didnt really care about that. But with the 2 smaller chokes around the
12V power and the signal now my amps and fuel pressure move -5 amps and fuel
pressure to +5 and they track together. So probably have some trials to do with
those chokes such as one or the other or whatever, maybe a third loop. And
also check the coax run to the antenna and SWR when I can.
> Since I need to get the plane up in the next several days I am calling it good
for now. Of course all this could change when I crank up and go fly, but I
think I made some headway. At least the high fuel pressure warning probably will
not light up now.
>
> -Chris Lucas
> N919AR
> RV-10 in first conditional inspection
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
I think Hernador hit the nail on the head, but dont forget the ground side o
f the circuit. You are probably looking for a bad crimp somewhere. Get in th
ere and start tugging on wires near crimped connectors while monitoring the a
vionics.
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 30, 2012, at 8:03 AM, "Dick Wildman" <dick@minetfiber.com> wrote:
> Hello;
>
> I had a very similar problem on an RV-6. After a lot of trouble shooti
ng I was under the panel when a wire I was touching moved. It was the main f
eed to the buss that supplied the radios. It was snug tight but not really t
ight and could be moved. My transponder and Comm would shut down in flight.
I tightened the connection and never had the radios power off again in flig
ht again.
>
> Dick Wildman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Henador Titzoff
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:04 AM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF l
eaks behind the panel
>
> Mr. Bill,
>
> If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting off," I w
ill suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has everything to do with y
our power system. If the transponder sometimes shuts off for no apparent rea
son, it adds credence to the power system being the culprit. You either hav
e an intermittent connection or a significant impedance somewhere in your po
wer system such that it deprives the three units of sufficient voltage to st
ay on.
>
> If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I suggest that y
ou grab a competent airport bum to help you make voltage measurements throug
hout the affected areas in order to find the high impedance. If it cannot b
e duplicated on the ground, then a thorough analysis of what you have is in o
rder, along with looking at each node to verify it is airworthy.
>
> Good luck to you and your airplane.
>
> Henador Titzoff
>
> --- On Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF l
eaks behind the panel
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM
>
south.net>
>
> I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150 moving map, and
> sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the Garmin DNS 430W
> mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak from the Garmi
n
> coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because I have had
> occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent reason. I just
> wanted to check for a leak.
>
> I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight to the antenna
> bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order to see if tha
t
> helps.
>
> The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
>
> Bill B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L
.
> Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF
> leaks behind the panel
>
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
> At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
> ><bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to accomplish this
> >task and how the testing is done.
> >
> >BillB
>
> What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
> does it appear and on which radio? Have you
> stepped through the diagnostics described in
> the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
> the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
> is the victim?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 8
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|
Subject: | State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
Just finished some testing of an almost-ready-for-
prime-time board assembly. Thermal performance for
the power transistors that control lamps says we
can use this board for 100w tungsten landing/taxi
lamps too.
The thing fits into our standard 15-pin enclosure
Emacs!
I've got it running on the bench right now flashing
55w halogen lamps. They look pretty good in the triple-
flash mode too. So it will be up to the user. LED or
Tungsten, single or triple flash wig-wag.
I'm working on the installation documents and hope to
publish to the catalog yet today. I'll also be publishing
the software, ecb layout and bills of materials under
the open source philosophy.
The software allows control of landing/taxi lights from
a single, two-pole, progressive transfer switch.
Down = OFF
Mid = Taxi
Up (after 1 second) = Taxi + Landing
Moving directly from OFF to full up
will get you Wig Wag operations.
A jumper in the plug will choose either single
or triple-flash operation.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT |
Another post on similar subject suggested a .1 micro F cap. I might try that too
at some later date. I just bought what radio shack had for ferrite and saw them
in the archives on RF interference. I guess some calcualtions could be made
to figure out the optimum inductance(?) but...I just tried it, as is, to see
what happen and got some results.
-Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Andres <tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 11:25:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT
If it makes you feel better I have the same problem. On mine it only occurs when
on the upper end of the band, like center frequencies above 130 MHz, and happens
when I key either the 430W or Icom A210 on those upper frequencies.
I spoke to Carlos at GRT about this and he suggested the split ferrite that you
have tried. I have not attempted to fix it yet and was about to ask the group
what specs I need when I buy it.
I wonder if a small capacitor could be used to drain off the RF since the torrid
didn't work. It could be installed inside the D-sub between the fuel sensor
pin and ground. Can anyone here tell if this might work and if so what cap to
use?
Thanks,
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 30, 2012, at 6:39 AM, Chris <toaster73@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> As you may have seen I posted a problem related to RF interference on my fuel
pressure reading provided by GRT EIS 6000 in an RV-10. The pressure would rise
to about 45 psi from zero when PTT on the SL30 radio.
>
> Below is what I did thus far.
>
> First thing I did was play with the coax routing from the SL30 to its antenna
which is a Bob Archer in the left wingtip. I moved the routing around inside
the cabin only. I wonder if this means something about my coax connections or
antenna, anyway I was initially getting about 45 psi rise max from zero with
the PTT held in. After moving the coax wire around I get about 23 psi rise.
>
> The coax originally ran from the SL-30 pigtail at panel center along the back
of the RV-10 sub panel but kind of out in space then turned to go down the side
of the fuselage and then out into the wing. It passed behind the EIS box
by about a 10 inches along that sub panel route. As it turned to go down the
left fuselage wall it passed by fuel pressure wires coming through the firewall.
>
> The re-route just has it going along the firewall (interior) instead of the subpanel
which moves it further from the EIS. It shares some ground wire bundles
and is not out in space.
>
> The next thing I did was put the larger (coax size) radio shack ferrite choke
around the wires coming out of the sender with a loop around the choke so the
wires go through twice. I had bought two smaller chokes (they come 2 to a pack)
and I put them just outside the d-sub going into the back of the EIS. I looped
the 12 volt regulated supply through one and the signal wire was looped through
the second choke. With all that I am down to about 5 psi rise from zero.
The funny thing is I had also noticed a movement of -1 or -2 amps with PTT
also but didnt really care about that. But with the 2 smaller chokes around the
12V power and the signal now my amps and fuel pressure move -5 amps and fuel
pressure to +5 and they track together. So probably have some trials to do with
those chokes such as one or the other or whatever, maybe a third loop. And
also check the coax run to the antenna and SWR when I can.
> Since I need to get the plane up in the next several days I am calling it good
for now. Of course all this could change when I crank up and go fly, but I
think I made some headway. At least the high fuel pressure warning probably will
not light up now.
>
> -Chris Lucas
> N919AR
> RV-10 in first conditional inspection
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
At 12:47 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>Just finished some testing of an almost-ready-for-
>prime-time board assembly. Thermal performance for
>the power transistors that control lamps says we
>can use this board for 100w tungsten landing/taxi
>lamps too.
Here's a video of the POC board driving 55w
halogen lamps in a triple-flash mode.
http://tinyurl.com/co3zxaq
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT |
At 10:25 AM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>
>If it makes you feel better I have the same problem. On mine it only
>occurs when on the upper end of the band, like center frequencies
>above 130 MHz, and happens when I key either the 430W or Icom A210
>on those upper frequencies.
> I spoke to Carlos at GRT about this and he suggested the split
> ferrite that you have tried. I have not attempted to fix it yet and
> was about to ask the group what specs I need when I buy it.
>I wonder if a small capacitor could be used to drain off the RF
>since the torrid didn't work. It could be installed inside the D-sub
>between the fuel sensor pin and ground. Can anyone here tell if this
>might work and if so what cap to use?
The value of such capacitors is not so critical
as their construction. A few days ago I published
a capacitors-in-the-connector fix that I crafted
on a Hawker 800 a few years back. See http://tinyurl.com/dxeuj6b
and scroll down to bottom for pictures.
Those capacitor were monolythic ceramics, 0.1 uF
at 50 volts. But probably any value between 0.01
and 0.47 would have worked. What we're interested
in is tiny size so that they can make short lead
connection to the pin and low inductance characteristics
for which the monolythic construction is noted.
Radio Shack used to stock a 0.1 uf cerami (about
1.5 times size of a paper match head). Here's an
exemplar part
http://tinyurl.com/bsk27pw
Ferrites are a whole other ball game. They tend
to improve on an RFI problem with a combination
of two characteristics. (1) they add a lumped
inductance into the wire or wires that are coupling
the energy into the victim (or out of the antagonist).
(2) Ferrites designed for RFI mitigation are TERRIBLE
transformer cores. I.e. they're designed to be
very lossy at the frequencies of interest. By lossy,
we mean that energy coupled into the core is converted
to heat.
BOTH effects are enhanced by the capacitor that
lowers the parallel impedance against which the
series impedance of the ferrite can work. The BEST
ferrite in the world does nothing if the downstream
path to the victim is a high impedance at the
frequency of interest.
This is why the odds are so long that ferrites
alone will fix a problem. The problem would not
have existed had the victim's i/o leads been
designed for that environment in the first place.
So the best moves call for capacitors first with
ferrites stacked on top.
Bob . . .
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: RF interference on GRT fuel pressure with PTT |
At 12:53 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>
>Another post on similar subject suggested a .1 micro F cap. I might
>try that too at some later date. I just bought what radio shack had
>for ferrite and saw them in the archives on RF interference. I guess
>some calcualtions could be made to figure out the optimum
>inductance(?) but...I just tried it, as is, to see what happen and
>got some results.
This is not a calculable scenario since you
don't have hard data as to the degree of attenuation
necessary for acceptable results. This is very
much a cut-n-try endeavor.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Using a Handheld radio to "Sniff" for RF leaks |
behind the panel
Very possibly a poor shield connection on the antenna coax. Long time
ago I had similar problems, found my radio worked fine in another
aircraft, so looked hard and found a cold solder joint where shield had
been soldered on antenna coax at connection to radio.
On 11/30/2012 9:34 AM, Tim Andres wrote:
> I think Hernador hit the nail on the head, but dont forget the ground
> side of the circuit. You are probably looking for a bad crimp
> somewhere. Get in there and start tugging on wires near crimped
> connectors while monitoring the avionics.
> Tim
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 30, 2012, at 8:03 AM, "Dick Wildman" <dick@minetfiber.com
> <mailto:dick@minetfiber.com>> wrote:
>
>> Hello;
>> I had a very similar problem on an RV-6. After a lot of trouble
>> shooting I was under the panel when a wire I was touching moved. It
>> was the main feed to the buss that supplied the radios. It was snug
>> tight but not really tight and could be moved. My transponder and
>> Comm would shut down in flight. I tightened the connection and never
>> had the radios power off again in flight again.
>> Dick Wildman
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Henador Titzoff <mailto:henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 30, 2012 4:04 AM
>> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to
>> "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel
>>
>> Mr. Bill,
>> If you key the Garmin 430 and it results in three items "shutting
>> off," I will suggest that it has nothing to do with RF and has
>> everything to do with your power system. If the transponder
>> sometimes shuts off for no apparent reason, it adds credence to
>> the power system being the culprit. You either have an
>> intermittent connection or a significant impedance somewhere in
>> your power system such that it deprives the three units of
>> sufficient voltage to stay on.
>> If this problem can be duplicated on the ground, then may I
>> suggest that you grab a competent airport bum to help you make
>> voltage measurements throughout the affected areas in order to
>> find the high impedance. If it cannot be duplicated on the
>> ground, then a thorough analysis of what you have is in order,
>> along with looking at each node to verify it is airworthy.
>> Good luck to you and your airplane.
>>
>> Henador Titzoff
>>
>> --- On *Thu, 11/29/12, Bill Bradburry /<bbradburry@bellsouth.net
>> <mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net>>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net
>> <mailto:bbradburry@bellsouth.net>>
>> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to
>> "Sniff" for RF leaks behind the panel
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: Thursday, November 29, 2012, 2:49 PM
>>
>> <bbradburry@bellsouth.net
>> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsouth.net>>
>>
>> I have a situation where the transponder, sometimes KMD150
>> moving map, and
>> sometimes TruTrak DigiflightII autopilot shut off when the
>> Garmin DNS 430W
>> mike is keyed. I am assuming that I have a massive RF leak
>> from the Garmin
>> coax that is causing this shutdown. I could be wrong because
>> I have had
>> occasion where the transponder shut off for no apparent
>> reason. I just
>> wanted to check for a leak.
>>
>> I also plan to fab a coax that goes from the radio straight
>> to the antenna
>> bypassing everything that it may be in proximity to in order
>> to see if that
>> helps.
>>
>> The more I think about this problem the more my head hurts!
>>
>> Bill B
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>]
>> On Behalf Of Robert L.
>> Nuckolls, III
>> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:28 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Using a Handheld radio to
>> "Sniff" for RF
>> leaks behind the panel
>>
>> III"
>> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com
>> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>>
>>
>> At 07:13 AM 11/29/2012, you wrote:
>> ><bbradburry@bellsouth.net
>> <http://us.mc1226.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=bbradburry@bellsouth.net>>
>> >
>> >Please tell me again how you set the handheld radio up to
>> accomplish this
>> >task and how the testing is done.
>> >
>> >BillB
>>
>> What kind of 'noise', under what circumstances
>> does it appear and on which radio? Have you
>> stepped through the diagnostics described in
>> the chapter on audio systems to deduce whether
>> the noise is conducted, radiated, and which device
>> is the victim?
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com>
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com <http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
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Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
Greetings all,
I was wondering if there is a standard way of placarding the switch for
an item like this. Obviously just indicating positions doesn't do it.
I'm wondering if there is a standard format for displaying the time
dependent nature of the switch's function. If none exists, perhaps it
is something that could be developed by this list.
I personally don't like this sort of time dependent function control.
I'd rather have 2 switches or a rotary switch. I recognise this is the
way things are done with a minimum of hardware, but I just thought I'd
take this opportunity to grumble and complain about it. :-)
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/30/2012 12:47 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Just finished some testing of an almost-ready-for-
> prime-time board assembly. Thermal performance for
> the power transistors that control lamps says we
> can use this board for 100w tungsten landing/taxi
> lamps too.
>
> The thing fits into our standard 15-pin enclosure
=================Deleted image to allow reply.==============
>
> I've got it running on the bench right now flashing
> 55w halogen lamps. They look pretty good in the triple-
> flash mode too. So it will be up to the user. LED or
> Tungsten, single or triple flash wig-wag.
>
> I'm working on the installation documents and hope to
> publish to the catalog yet today. I'll also be publishing
> the software, ecb layout and bills of materials under
> the open source philosophy.
>
> The software allows control of landing/taxi lights from
> a single, two-pole, progressive transfer switch.
>
> Down = OFF
>
> Mid = Taxi
>
> Up (after 1 second) = Taxi + Landing
>
> Moving directly from OFF to full up
> will get you Wig Wag operations.
>
> A jumper in the plug will choose either single
> or triple-flash operation.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
At 03:59 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>I was wondering if there is a standard way of placarding the switch
>for an item like this. Obviously just indicating positions doesn't do it.
Sure.
----- WIG/WAG -----
LANDING TAXI
O O
OFF OFF
Would be pretty graphic for a pair
of switches.
> I'm wondering if there is a standard format for displaying the
> time dependent nature of the switch's function. If none exists,
> perhaps it is something that could be developed by this list.
>
>I personally don't like this sort of time dependent function
>control. I'd rather have 2 switches or a rotary switch. I recognise
>this is the way things are done with a minimum of hardware, but I
>just thought I'd take this opportunity to grumble and complain about it. :-)
It's not a 'complex' time function. If you had
separate landing and taxi light switches, you turn
on either one, pause 1 second and turn on the
second and you get both lights on steady. If they're
side by side, you flip them both up at the same time
and you've got wig-wag.
You CAN treat this as a raw flasher and let it run
all the time in the desired wig-wag mode and use
switches OUTSIDE the controller's logic features
to produce what ever switch functionality you wish.
The installation options will describe these features
in detail. It was originally intended to be an alterative
to the integration snafu that we encountered with the
automotive, 3-terminal relay flashers with LED landing
lights. But as we pondered the features available in
software and how much hardware would fit into the
stock enclosure, it ended up being pretty much a one-
size-fits-all for both LED/Tungsten and a host of
control options.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
My question was how do you placard the single switch operation:
The software allows control of landing/taxi lights from
a single, two-pole, progressive transfer switch.
Down = OFF
Mid = Taxi
Up (after 1 second) = Taxi + Landing
**************** OR **********************
Moving directly from OFF to full up
will get you Wig Wag operations.
Agreed, it's not a "complex" timing control. How does a pilot looking
at that switch, or switches, for the 1st time know that the same switch
position represents a different function depending on the time between
changing of switch positions?
It's not a 'complex' time function. If you had
separate landing and taxi light switches, you turn
on either one, pause 1 second and turn on the
second and you get both lights on steady. If they're
side by side, you flip them both up at the same time
and you've got wig-wag.
I suppose you could placard it "RTFM" but that seems less than optimal.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 11/30/2012 04:39 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 03:59 PM 11/30/2012, you wrote:
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> I was wondering if there is a standard way of placarding the switch
>> for an item like this. Obviously just indicating positions doesn't
>> do it.
>
> Sure.
>
> ----- WIG/WAG -----
> LANDING TAXI
>
> O O
>
> OFF OFF
>
> Would be pretty graphic for a pair
> of switches.
>
>> I'm wondering if there is a standard format for displaying the time
>> dependent nature of the switch's function. If none exists, perhaps
>> it is something that could be developed by this list.
>>
>> I personally don't like this sort of time dependent function control.
>> I'd rather have 2 switches or a rotary switch. I recognise this is
>> the way things are done with a minimum of hardware, but I just
>> thought I'd take this opportunity to grumble and complain about it. :-)
>
> It's not a 'complex' time function. If you had
> separate landing and taxi light switches, you turn
> on either one, pause 1 second and turn on the
> second and you get both lights on steady. If they're
> side by side, you flip them both up at the same time
> and you've got wig-wag.
>
> You CAN treat this as a raw flasher and let it run
> all the time in the desired wig-wag mode and use
> switches OUTSIDE the controller's logic features
> to produce what ever switch functionality you wish.
>
> The installation options will describe these features
> in detail. It was originally intended to be an alterative
> to the integration snafu that we encountered with the
> automotive, 3-terminal relay flashers with LED landing
> lights. But as we pondered the features available in
> software and how much hardware would fit into the
> stock enclosure, it ended up being pretty much a one-
> size-fits-all for both LED/Tungsten and a host of
> control options.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: State of the O.S. Wig-Wag Project |
>
>Agreed, it's not a "complex" timing control. How does a pilot
>looking at that switch, or switches, for the 1st time know that the
>same switch position represents a different function depending on
>the time between changing of switch positions?
There are things about some airplanes that
one finds out by reading a POH . . . or getting
checked out by a pilot with experience with
the airplane. The J-3 I owned was hard
to get started in cold weather unless you
knew the 'trick'. I would never have known
about it if the guy who checked me out in it
hadn't told me how to do it. Some owners
have 'hidden' battery master or starter
switches to discourage theft.
The time dependent control has some appeal
for the single switch control option which
is indeed a new thing. Until this new feature
became a reality, it was pretty common to
have one switch per lamp and some combination
of positions for individual operation +
wig-wag mode.
Emacs!
But there's probably no clear
placarding to describe this operation. I'll
bet owner of the airplane won't have any problem
with it should he choose to use a single switch
option.
If both lights are aimed the same, then perhaps
a separate taxi position isn't needed. You
could have a single three position switch that
would control both lights on at the same time
or wig-wag. Probably the only time you'd have
a separate taxi light is with a tail dragger
where taxi lights are usually aimed lower for
good illumination on the ground.
Bob . . .
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