---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/08/12: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:51 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will this work? (Ken) 2. 06:25 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will this work? (Tim Andres) 3. 06:26 AM - Re: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will this work? (Charlie England) 4. 08:50 AM - Re:TSO issues, was ELT Antenna (Glen Matejcek) 5. 12:39 PM - Re: Re:TSO issues, was ELT Antenna (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:03 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will this work? I'm told that in actual searches the 121.5 very low power homing signal from most 406 ELT's is next to useless anyway unless you are in visual range. So a ground plane sized for 406 mhz would satisfy my personal requirements. Still won't make you legal but perhaps a reasonable compromise?? More important to me is wiring a gps signal into the E-04. Ken On 07/12/2012 9:07 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: > > > It will be dependent on DAR you use. On the face of it, the ELT is ONLY > TSO approved with supplied antenna(or optional approved antennas). > Any other antenna will have a different VSWR that may or may not affect > the ELT performance and cause it to not meet TSO requirements. > Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it > must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there > or not you won't know without asking up front. > > On 12/7/2012 5:43 PM, plevyakh wrote: >> >> Folks, >> I'm building a GlaStar (composite glass fuselage with metal wings and >> control surfaces). >> >> I'm going with INTERNAL mount for the antenna, and will be placing it >> just AFT of my bulkhead "A" as one of the most survivable locations in >> a crash for my aircraft. >> >> I have the ACK E-04 unit and it comes with it's own antenna, but that >> requires creating a 48" dia. ground plane! (24" long copper foil >> elements, per the E-04 Install guide). I don't have the room for this >> in the tail cone...given I have other stuff back there in the way. >> >> I have one of Jim Weir's RS-802 Copper Dipole Antenna kits and I was >> going to make my own. His kit dwg 802-8905 shows how to create one for >> the older style 121.5 units. So I'm thinking I'd use this same X cross >> style antenna, and have one V with Lengths = 22.5" (121.5MHz), and the >> other V with lengths = 7.3" (406MHz). >> >> This should fit nicely onto the sidewall of the tunnel AFT of Bulkhead >> "A" in a vertically mounted position (see attached dwg). >> >> Am I correct in my modification of the Jim Weir design to be able to >> accommodate the 406MHz frequency? >> >> Are there any other changes I need to make with this double V design >> to make it work? >> >> Has anyone run into a problem in their Final FAA inspection in getting >> approval to use a "Double V style antenna"? >> >> Thanks for any thoughts. >> Howard >> >> -------- >> Howard Plevyak >> GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio >> hplevyak@mac.com >> >> ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will this work? From: Tim Andres The problem is the ACK 406,ELT does a function check of the antenna, if it d oesn't like what it sees down the antenna connection it faults. So even if y ou make a nicely resonant antenna for 406 I don't think it will work. See: h ttp://ackavionics.com/406%20Page.html Tim On Dec 8, 2012, at 4:50 AM, Ken wrote: > > I'm told that in actual searches the 121.5 very low power homing signal fr om most 406 ELT's is next to useless anyway unless you are in visual range. S o a ground plane sized for 406 mhz would satisfy my personal requirements. S till won't make you legal but perhaps a reasonable compromise?? More importa nt to me is wiring a gps signal into the E-04. > Ken > > On 07/12/2012 9:07 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> >> It will be dependent on DAR you use. On the face of it, the ELT is ONLY >> TSO approved with supplied antenna(or optional approved antennas). >> Any other antenna will have a different VSWR that may or may not affect >> the ELT performance and cause it to not meet TSO requirements. >> Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it >> must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there >> or not you won't know without asking up front. >> >> On 12/7/2012 5:43 PM, plevyakh wrote: >>> >>> Folks, >>> I'm building a GlaStar (composite glass fuselage with metal wings and >>> control surfaces). >>> >>> I'm going with INTERNAL mount for the antenna, and will be placing it >>> just AFT of my bulkhead "A" as one of the most survivable locations in >>> a crash for my aircraft. >>> >>> I have the ACK E-04 unit and it comes with it's own antenna, but that >>> requires creating a 48" dia. ground plane! (24" long copper foil >>> elements, per the E-04 Install guide). I don't have the room for this >>> in the tail cone...given I have other stuff back there in the way. >>> >>> I have one of Jim Weir's RS-802 Copper Dipole Antenna kits and I was >>> going to make my own. His kit dwg 802-8905 shows how to create one for >>> the older style 121.5 units. So I'm thinking I'd use this same X cross >>> style antenna, and have one V with Lengths = 22.5" (121.5MHz), and the >>> other V with lengths = 7.3" (406MHz). >>> >>> This should fit nicely onto the sidewall of the tunnel AFT of Bulkhead >>> "A" in a vertically mounted position (see attached dwg). >>> >>> Am I correct in my modification of the Jim Weir design to be able to >>> accommodate the 406MHz frequency? >>> >>> Are there any other changes I need to make with this double V design >>> to make it work? >>> >>> Has anyone run into a problem in their Final FAA inspection in getting >>> approval to use a "Double V style antenna"? >>> >>> Thanks for any thoughts. >>> Howard >>> >>> -------- >>> Howard Plevyak >>> GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio >>> hplevyak@mac.com > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:45 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ELT Antenna (406MHz) - Copper Dipole style...will this work? I'd suggest taking a look at where the same brand antenna is installed on some fully certificated factory single engine planes, & take some pictures for your DAR. Most are on the fuselage, right? How many single engine a/c have tail cones that are 48" wide? Charlie On 12/08/2012 06:50 AM, Ken wrote: > > I'm told that in actual searches the 121.5 very low power homing > signal from most 406 ELT's is next to useless anyway unless you are in > visual range. So a ground plane sized for 406 mhz would satisfy my > personal requirements. Still won't make you legal but perhaps a > reasonable compromise?? More important to me is wiring a gps signal > into the E-04. > Ken > > On 07/12/2012 9:07 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote: >> >> >> It will be dependent on DAR you use. On the face of it, the ELT is ONLY >> TSO approved with supplied antenna(or optional approved antennas). >> Any other antenna will have a different VSWR that may or may not affect >> the ELT performance and cause it to not meet TSO requirements. >> Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it >> must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there >> or not you won't know without asking up front. >> >> On 12/7/2012 5:43 PM, plevyakh wrote: >>> >>> Folks, >>> I'm building a GlaStar (composite glass fuselage with metal wings and >>> control surfaces). >>> >>> I'm going with INTERNAL mount for the antenna, and will be placing it >>> just AFT of my bulkhead "A" as one of the most survivable locations in >>> a crash for my aircraft. >>> >>> I have the ACK E-04 unit and it comes with it's own antenna, but that >>> requires creating a 48" dia. ground plane! (24" long copper foil >>> elements, per the E-04 Install guide). I don't have the room for this >>> in the tail cone...given I have other stuff back there in the way. >>> >>> I have one of Jim Weir's RS-802 Copper Dipole Antenna kits and I was >>> going to make my own. His kit dwg 802-8905 shows how to create one for >>> the older style 121.5 units. So I'm thinking I'd use this same X cross >>> style antenna, and have one V with Lengths = 22.5" (121.5MHz), and the >>> other V with lengths = 7.3" (406MHz). >>> >>> This should fit nicely onto the sidewall of the tunnel AFT of Bulkhead >>> "A" in a vertically mounted position (see attached dwg). >>> >>> Am I correct in my modification of the Jim Weir design to be able to >>> accommodate the 406MHz frequency? >>> >>> Are there any other changes I need to make with this double V design >>> to make it work? >>> >>> Has anyone run into a problem in their Final FAA inspection in getting >>> approval to use a "Double V style antenna"? >>> >>> Thanks for any thoughts. >>> Howard >>> >>> -------- >>> Howard Plevyak >>> GlaStar / North Bend, Ohio >>> hplevyak@mac.com >>> >>> > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:44 AM PST US From: Glen Matejcek Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re:TSO issues, was ELT Antenna Hi Kelly- RE: >Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it >must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there >or not you won't know without asking up front. I know this came up a while back, and I meant to run it to ground, but got busy and let it slip. My current understanding is different in that an ELT should MEET TSO, vs HAVE a TSO. I'm wondering if you have a reference source for for this issue. Things are evolving with some regs, and I'd hate to get caught unaware with a recent change! Glen Matejcek ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:54 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:TSO issues, was ELT Antenna The question is how do you prove "meeting" TSO without having actual TSO testing done? I know there are a few transponders that are experimental only that claim to meet TSO, but they generally are based on a unit that does meet TSO, such as the Dynon, that is made by Trig, who has several TSO approved units. On 12/8/2012 9:49 AM, Glen Matejcek wrote: > > Hi Kelly- > > RE: > >> Note that even on experimental, IF you are required to have an ELT, it >> must be a TSO ELT. Whether your DAR will exercise any discretion there >> or not you won't know without asking up front. > > I know this came up a while back, and I meant to run it to ground, but got busy and let it slip. My current understanding is different in that an ELT should MEET TSO, vs HAVE a TSO. I'm wondering if you have a reference source for for this issue. Things are evolving with some regs, and I'd hate to get caught unaware with a recent change! > > Glen Matejcek > > ----- No virus found in this message. 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