Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:33 AM - 2012 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
2. 11:00 AM - Re: Open source wig-wag project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 11:25 AM - Re: Open source wig-wag project (Mark Wesson)
4. 11:56 AM - Re: Open source wig-wag project (Dick Fisher)
5. 12:09 PM - Re: Open source wig-wag project (Corey Crawford)
6. 04:18 PM - Re: Open source wig-wag project (Eric M. Jones)
7. 06:19 PM - Re: Open source wig-wag project (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: Open source wig-wag project (DeWitt (Dee) Whittington)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 2012 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
The 2012 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended about a week
ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. It is the
people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible!
Their generous Contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and
running!
You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same
time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the
supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent products and
I encourage you to visit their respective web sites:
Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com
Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
And finally, I'm proud to present The 2012 Fund Raiser List of Contributors:
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2012.html
Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
>I have not, but they are the ones Precise Flight and Knots 2 U sell
>(joint development project). And Precise Flight sells a modified
>flasher for them (made of deep unobtanium)... so some kind of
>flashing stratagem supposedly works, though not the conventional
>PulseLight, supposedly.
I've pondered the operating temperature thing. When
you simply wig-wag two lamps, energy feed to each
lamp drops by 50%. I you 'triple-flash' the lamps
as demonstrated in my video, the duty cycle becomes
33% of 50% or 17%.
These lamps MIGHT stay warm enough to accommodate
legacy 50-50 wig wag but probably not at 17-17.
I'll do some fiddling with the lamps I have on hand
at the next opportunity.
Has anyone on the List successfully flashed HID lamps
with even a 50-50 wig-wag control philosophy?
Someone sent me a couple of lamp assemblies to
have on hand for the next opportunity I had to get
into the RF Lab. I also have a pair of aftermarket
conversion lamps that I tried for a time in my Kia
minivan. Took them out after a couple of months.
So I've got three different lamps/ballast combinations
to try.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Open source wig-wag project |
We have to ask. Why did you pull them out of the KIA?
Mark Wesson
President / Owner
mark@wessonair.com
Ph # 407-831-5061
Fax # 407-831-2570
http://www.wessonair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Open source wig-wag project
--> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>I have not, but they are the ones Precise Flight and Knots 2 U sell
>(joint development project). And Precise Flight sells a modified
>flasher for them (made of deep unobtanium)... so some kind of flashing
>stratagem supposedly works, though not the conventional PulseLight,
>supposedly.
I've pondered the operating temperature thing. When
you simply wig-wag two lamps, energy feed to each
lamp drops by 50%. I you 'triple-flash' the lamps
as demonstrated in my video, the duty cycle becomes
33% of 50% or 17%.
These lamps MIGHT stay warm enough to accommodate
legacy 50-50 wig wag but probably not at 17-17.
I'll do some fiddling with the lamps I have on hand
at the next opportunity.
Has anyone on the List successfully flashed HID lamps
with even a 50-50 wig-wag control philosophy?
Someone sent me a couple of lamp assemblies to
have on hand for the next opportunity I had to get
into the RF Lab. I also have a pair of aftermarket
conversion lamps that I tried for a time in my Kia
minivan. Took them out after a couple of months.
So I've got three different lamps/ballast combinations
to try.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
Bob,
My friend and I installed Duckworth HID lights and bought a wig-wag module
from Perihilion
click on this link: http://periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm We did use
another device from
him which I can't recall the name of right now. The wig-wag and lights
worked great.
Dick Fisher
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**>
>
>
> I have not, but they are the ones Precise Flight and Knots 2 U sell (joint
>> development project). And Precise Flight sells a modified flasher for them
>> (made of deep unobtanium)... so some kind of flashing stratagem supposedly
>> works, though not the conventional PulseLight, supposedly.
>>
>
> I've pondered the operating temperature thing. When
> you simply wig-wag two lamps, energy feed to each
> lamp drops by 50%. I you 'triple-flash' the lamps
> as demonstrated in my video, the duty cycle becomes
> 33% of 50% or 17%.
>
> These lamps MIGHT stay warm enough to accommodate
> legacy 50-50 wig wag but probably not at 17-17.
>
> I'll do some fiddling with the lamps I have on hand
> at the next opportunity.
>
> Has anyone on the List successfully flashed HID lamps
> with even a 50-50 wig-wag control philosophy?
>
> Someone sent me a couple of lamp assemblies to
> have on hand for the next opportunity I had to get
> into the RF Lab. I also have a pair of aftermarket
> conversion lamps that I tried for a time in my Kia
> minivan. Took them out after a couple of months.
>
> So I've got three different lamps/ballast combinations
> to try.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
One of the vendors on VAF got a patent for some device that warms up HIDs
before flashing them:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=55463
--
Corey Crawford
corey.crawford@gmail.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
> My friend and I installed Duckworth HID lights and bought a wig-wag module from Perihilion http://periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm We did use another device from him.... The wig-wag and lights worked great. Dick Fisher
Thanks, Dick. I still sell the wigwags which work on nearly anything, but the HIDs
tripped me up when they first appeared. There are three things to keep in
mind:
1) They must be warmed up 20-30 seconds or so first.
2) They need a surge suppressor since the initial lamp turn-on neatly exceeds the
mosfet current capability.
3) They need a voltage clipper to prevent the starting voltage from getting back
to the mosfet.The zener clippers should be near the ballast but not between
the ballast and the lamp.
BTW: here is my tirade against wig-wagging HIDs: In a previous life, I spent almost
three decades building high power xenon short-arc, HID, and halogen lamp
systems. So I have long experience with both the lamps and their power supplies
and their foibles. And I know in excruciating detail what is needed to wig-wag
them.
So my problem is--everything I know says not to wig-wag the HID lamps because they
will have shorter lamp lifetimes. Everything that is an advantage of HID lamps
disappears quickly if one abuses them by (Oh, let's say) 2500 restarts per
hour! Many problems with HIDs don't occur in any simple way either. There are
second- and even third- order problems to contend with. Furthermore, switched-mode
power supplies and starters are particularly failure-prone when abused.
I can guarantee that the manufacturer of the lamp-supply-starter DO NOT warranty
their devices to be used in this fashion.
So even though HIDs are the cat's meow, I'd use halogens or LEDs. It's true, you
can do deer-jacking at the other end of the runway with HIDs...but do you really
need to do that? I still advise people to use LEDs, or hold out for a little
while to get the LEDs you want. A couple CREE Ultrafires will land my airplane
now.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390270#390270
Message 7
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| Subject: | Open source wig-wag project |
At 01:25 PM 12/10/2012, you wrote:
>
>We have to ask. Why did you pull them out of the KIA?
Wrong color. The biggest night-time hazard
in this part of the world are the road rats
Emacs!
The color temperature of the HID lamps
doesn't reflect as well from the fur
of these critters as the more yellow-red
incandescent lamps.
I could visibly illuminate a stop sign
from 1+ miles away but didn't help pick
one of these guys up in the ditch at
200 yards.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Open source wig-wag project |
So Eric, although we were told by Vertical Power that our VP-200 will
wig/wag our Duckworks HIDs in each wing leading edge, it's a bad idea to do
that?
Dee
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Eric M. Jones <emjones@charter.net> wrote:
> emjones@charter.net>
>
>
> > My friend and I installed Duckworth HID lights and bought a wig-wag
> module from Perihilion http://periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm We did
> use another device from him.... The wig-wag and lights worked great. Dick
> Fisher
>
>
> Thanks, Dick. I still sell the wigwags which work on nearly anything, but
> the HIDs tripped me up when they first appeared. There are three things t
o
> keep in mind:
>
> 1) They must be warmed up 20-30 seconds or so first.
> 2) They need a surge suppressor since the initial lamp turn-on neatly
> exceeds the mosfet current capability.
> 3) They need a voltage clipper to prevent the starting voltage from
> getting back to the mosfet.The zener clippers should be near the ballast
> but not between the ballast and the lamp.
>
> BTW: here is my tirade against wig-wagging HIDs: In a previous life, I
> spent almost three decades building high power xenon short-arc, HID, and
> halogen lamp systems. So I have long experience with both the lamps and
> their power supplies and their foibles. And I know in excruciating detail
> what is needed to wig-wag them.
>
> So my problem is--everything I know says not to wig-wag the HID lamps
> because they will have shorter lamp lifetimes. Everything that is an
> advantage of HID lamps disappears quickly if one abuses them by (Oh, let'
s
> say=85) 2500 restarts per hour! Many problems with HIDs don't occur in an
y
> simple way either. There are second- and even third- order problems to
> contend with. Furthermore, switched-mode power supplies and starters are
> particularly failure-prone when abused. I can guarantee that the
> manufacturer of the lamp-supply-starter DO NOT warranty their devices to
be
> used in this fashion.
>
> So even though HIDs are the cat's meow, I'd use halogens or LEDs. It's
> true, you can do deer-jacking at the other end of the runway with
> HIDs...but do you really need to do that? I still advise people to use
> LEDs, or hold out for a little while to get the LEDs you want. A couple
> CREE Ultrafires will land my airplane now.
>
> --------
> Eric M. Jones
> www.PerihelionDesign.com
> 113 Brentwood Drive
> Southbridge, MA 01550
> (508) 764-2072
> emjones(at)charter.net
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390270#390270
>
>
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>
>
--
DeWitt Whittington
www.VirginiaFlyIn.org
Building Glasair Sportsman with 3 partners
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