---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/12/12: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:02 AM - Re: Removable comm antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 09:08 AM - Re: Removable comm antenna (Holger Selover-Stephan) 3. 09:52 AM - Re: Removable comm antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 10:08 AM - Z-13 Using PP Alternator (Larry Elliott) 5. 10:26 AM - Re: Removable comm antenna (D L Josephson) 6. 10:40 AM - Re: Z-13 Using PP Alternator (Jared Yates) 7. 10:56 AM - Open source wig-wag project; now light color (Bob Verwey) 8. 11:02 AM - Re: Z-13 Using PP Alternator (The Kuffels) 9. 12:12 PM - Re: Z-13 Using PP Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 12:14 PM - Re: Re: Removable comm antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Removable comm antenna (Holger Selover-Stephan) 12. 03:46 PM - Re: 2012 List of Contributors (DeWitt (Dee) Whittington) 13. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: Removable comm antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 04:57 PM - Re: Open source wig-wag project; now light color (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 08:19 PM - Re: 2012 List of Contributors (Ralph Finch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:05 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Removable comm antenna At 08:44 PM 12/11/2012, you wrote: > > >Hi all, > >Knowing next to nothing about antenna installations, can I run this >one by you for a sanity check? I'd like to be able to quickly >disconnect the comm antenna on a regular base so I can throw a full >body cover of my motor glider. Is this a metal airplane? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:18 AM PST US From: Holger Selover-Stephan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Removable comm antenna On 12/12/12 8:01 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > Is this a metal airplane? > Yes, Bob, it's an all metal plane. Thanks, Holger ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:13 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Removable comm antenna >The antenna sits on the top of the fuselage and currently is a >simple 1/4 wave SS bent back whip antenna. Now I want to mount the >fat part of a Workman QDS1 inside the fuselage so it's flush with >the outer skin. Then drill a hole in the small part of the QDS1 and >install the whisker analog to Bob's article. Next is screwing an >isolated BNC panel mount into the QDS1 and make an electric >connection between the middle connector of the BNC and the QDS1. The >QDS1 is isolated against the fuselage. Would it need to be shielded >as well? I could put it into an aluminum box. Alternatively to the >BNC, I could also go with a 3/8" to SO-239 adapter. Consider this alternative. Since this is a slow speed airplane with relatively low duty cycle, perhaps something simpler and less robust would be attractive. Mount 7/16 x 1/2" stainless bolt on a phenolic/fiberglas skin doubler over a clearance hole for bolt head. Drill and tap both threaded end and head of bolt for 10-32 screw. Tread antenna-length piece of 3/16" steel rod about 1/2" of 10-32 thread. Mount bolt on doubler head facing up. Thread antenna into bolt and secure with lock-nut. Attach feed line directly to nut-side of bolt with 10-32 screw and PIDG terminal. Use PIDG terminal to ground the shield to one of the doubler attach screws. Low parts count. Low number of mated joints in the RF current paths. Antenna can be easily dismounted and stowed. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:25 AM PST US From: "Larry Elliott" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 Using PP Alternator I have the Plane Power 60 Amp alternator in my RV-7, which is about 95% complete. I do not have an electronics background, so I question as to whether or not I have wired my airplane correctly. I am using the AeroElectric Z-13 diagram, but the Plane Power 60 amp alternator has an internal regulator, and built in crowbar overvoltage protection. Therefore I have modified Z-13 to eliminate the external regulator. Can anyone tell me if my modified diagram looks correct ? If not, what needs to be changed to enable my electrical system to function correctly ? Any assistance is appreciated. Thanks, Larry Elliott, N422LE ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:18 AM PST US From: D L Josephson Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Removable comm antenna On 12/12/12 2:57 AM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: > by you for a sanity check? I'd like to be able to quickly disconnect the > comm antenna on a regular base so I can throw a full body cover of my > motor glider. You certainly don't need all that extra hardware. Get or make an antenna that terminates in a BNC male connector, and mount a BNC female connector on top of the fuselage. You can get panel mount connectors that install directly on RG-58 cable. Assuming your glider is fiberglass, add 3 or 4 quarter-wave radial elements from the shell of the BNC and extending outward along the inside surface of the fuselage. You can then make a dummy plug, maybe dome shaped, that goes on the BNC when you want to cover the aircraft to protect the connector and let the cover slide over it freely. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 Using PP Alternator From: Jared Yates I did mine in a similar way with the red wire, but I didn't use the white wire. Are you sure that illumination of that bulb means low voltage? I was thinking it was a more general fault light. I used Bob's other little low voltage warning circuit for the crucial low voltage role. On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 1:06 PM, Larry Elliott wrote: > I have the Plane Power 60 Amp alternator in my RV-7, which is about 95% > complete. I do not have an electronics background, so I question as to > whether or not I have wired my airplane correctly. I am using the > AeroElectric Z-13 diagram, but the Plane Power 60 amp alternator has an > internal regulator, and built in crowbar overvoltage protection. Therefore > I have modified Z-13 to eliminate the external regulator. Can anyone tell > me if my modified diagram looks correct ? If not, what needs to be changed > to enable my electrical system to function correctly ? Any assistance is > appreciated. > Thanks, Larry Elliott, N422LE > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:56:02 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Open source wig-wag project; now light color From: Bob Verwey Sacha, I have the same basic parameters you describe, and to add to your questions, I have noticed in the automotive sphere, the halogens appear in light blue and yellow lensed versions as well. What say the experts is the highest visibility of the lot in a wig-wag setup? Day VFR Best... Bob Verwey IO470 Bonanza A35 ZU-DLW V6 Chevy Safari ZU-AJF On 11 December 2012 22:49, Sacha wrote: > > I would like to install a landing light or two and for various reasons I > am leaning towards LEDs. > > Can anyone recommend some products they are happy with? I mean both the > bulbs and the lenses/mounting. If the products are automotive/easy/cheap > to source all the better. I have two circular cutouts about 10cm (4.5in) > in diameter which would be natural places to mount landing lights. Most of > my flying is daytime VFR. > > Sacha > > > On 11/dic/2012, at 15:10, "Eric M. Jones" wrote: > > emjones@charter.net> > > > > > >> So Eric, although we were told by Vertical Power that our VP-200 will > wig/wag our Duckworks HIDs in each wing leading edge, it's a bad idea to do > that? > > > > > > To make this abundantly and perfectly clear:...YES and NO. > > > > Personally I love LEDs more. But HIDs are amazing technology, and I can > show you why they are the best source available for putting into a > reflector. > > > > But when we tested HID power supplies, we cycled them on/off 10,000 > times in heat-stressed environments, NOT 2,500 times an hour. > > > > Is is possible that the OEM of the lamps and/or HID power supplies would > provide a written guarantee of the lamps and/or power supplies for the > intended use in aircraft Wig-wagging? HELL NO. > > > > Would it be better (only in term of lifetime) to wig-wag HIDs or LEDs? > No doubt about it, LEDs. > > > > Is it be vaguely possible that the HIDs will do fine? YES. Could it be > that they are worth their weight in gold if it prevents a collision with > another aircraft or a fat Canadian goose and to hell with any questions > about possible short lifetimes of the HID and/ power supply? YES! > > > > Is it a really bad idea to fly way up off the ground with an airplane > you built yourself? Errrrr...... > > > > You decide. > > > > -------- > > Eric M. Jones > > www.PerihelionDesign.com > > 113 Brentwood Drive > > Southbridge, MA 01550 > > (508) 764-2072 > > emjones(at)charter.net > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390285#390285 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:33 AM PST US From: "The Kuffels" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 Using PP Alternator Larry, << Can anyone tell me if my modified diagram looks correct ? If not, what needs to be changed to enable my electrical system to function correctly ? >> Minor point. You are missing a power source for the main battery contactor. Connect point "I" to point "S" on your diagram. Tom Kuffel ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:24 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13 Using PP Alternator At 12:39 PM 12/12/2012, you wrote: >I did mine in a similar way with the red wire, but I didn't use the >white wire. Are you sure that illumination of that bulb means low >voltage? I was thinking it was a more general fault light. I used >Bob's other little low voltage warning circuit for the crucial low >voltage role. Good catch. I agree that incorporation of the PP product into Z-13 is correct. I also suggest that the alternator inop lite built into the PP product be suplimented if not replaced by a dedicated active notification of low voltage. Eric has some product. I'll have some product again soon. If you're of a mind to roll your own, you could consider http://tinyurl.com/6mvso29 How ever you achieve it, independent notification of bus voltage below 13.0 volts is a really good idea. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:49 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Removable comm antenna >You certainly don't need all that extra hardware. Get or make an >antenna that terminates in a BNC male connector, and mount a BNC >female connector on top of the fuselage. You can get panel mount >connectors that install directly on RG-58 cable. Assuming your >glider is fiberglass, add 3 or 4 quarter-wave radial elements from >the shell of the BNC and extending outward along the inside surface >of the fuselage. You can then make a dummy plug, maybe dome shaped, >that goes on the BNC when you want to cover the aircraft to protect >the connector and let the cover slide over it freely. Another good idea. I seem to recall somebody here on the list used a 'rubber duck' antenna for a hand-held as his choice of removable external antennas. I have crimp-on, bulkhead mount BNC connectors in stock if you want to go that route and need one. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:14 PM PST US From: Holger Selover-Stephan Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Removable comm antenna On 12/12/12 12:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > Another good idea. I seem to recall somebody > here on the list used a 'rubber duck' antenna > for a hand-held as his choice of removable > external antennas. Thank you, Bob and DL for your suggestions. Bob, your solution isn't fully clear to me. Is the 3/16" rod silver soldered into the 10-32 screw? To disconnect, one would unscrew the 10-32 screw? If the antenna is bent back, that may be a little tricky, no? I've seen BNC connectors used as antenna bases on ultralights but wasn't sure about the speed limits. Mine has a 100kts cruise. The BNC connectors that looked beefy enough also looked pretty draggy. Same for antennas that have a BNC mount. Bob, you think your crimp-on BNC connector would support a whip antenna, vs. a rubber duck one? In this case I'd like to order it from you. I guess I could machine a stainless steel support sleeve to beef up the antenna side BNC. Thanks! Holger ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 2012 List of Contributors From: "DeWitt (Dee) Whittington" Matt, I've donated to you for years. I and my three partners continue to build our Sportsman and hopefully will fly in the Spring. However, this year I held off donating because I'm waiting for an update to the Kitlog Pro computer program you own. When you purchased Kitlog Pro, you said you would clean it up and make it easier to use. As of now the interface is really clunky and it cannot handle multiple builders of a single project, something that in my experience is not uncommon. Have you decided such improvement of Kitlog Pro is not something you are willing to spend time on? If you did I would enthusiastically endorse it to other builders and start donating again. Dee Whittington On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > > Dear Listers, > > The 2012 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended about > a week ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. > It is the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and > Forums possible! Their generous Contributions keep the servers and > Internet connection up and running! > > You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the > same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: > > Matt Dralle / Matronics > 581 Jeannie Way > Livermore CA 94550 > > > I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through > the supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some excellent > products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites: > > Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - http://www.aeroelectric.com > > Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com > > Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com > > > And finally, I'm proud to present The 2012 Fund Raiser List of > Contributors: > > http://www.matronics.com/loc/2012.html > > > Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator > > -- DeWitt Whittington www.VirginiaFlyIn.org Building Glasair Sportsman with 3 partners ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:25 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Removable comm antenna > >Bob, your solution isn't fully clear to me. Is the 3/16" rod silver >soldered into the 10-32 screw? To disconnect, one would unscrew the >10-32 screw? If the antenna is bent back, that may be a little tricky, no? No, I'd leave the nut loose for a couple of reasons. First, it would let you orient a bend and tighten the nut later (this could be a finger nut made from a piece of flat sheet with a drilled and tapped hole in the middle but with enough O.D. to let you hand tighten. Yeah, it would have a slight 'lengthening' effect on the antenna which would be shortened accordingly using SWR meter (2) heating the rod to silver solder temps in the thread area places the heat treat of the material in doubt right at the threads (manufactured stress riser). >I've seen BNC connectors used as antenna bases on ultralights but >wasn't sure about the speed limits. Mine has a 100kts cruise. The >BNC connectors that looked beefy enough also looked pretty draggy. >Same for antennas that have a BNC mount. Bob, you think your >crimp-on BNC connector would support a whip antenna, vs. a rubber >duck one? In this case I'd like to order it from you. I guess I >could machine a stainless steel support sleeve to beef up the antenna side BNC. The worst that happens is you break it and need to replace. If you want a laid back antenna, consider making the element out of piano wire and leave it un-bent. A smaller wire will produce less drag, less stress on connector, and would lay back all by itself in the breeze. If you'd like to order a connector, go to the website catalog, fill out top form data, go to bottom and put BNC Bulkhead Connector in the comments box. I'll send you a PayPal invoice. Over what distances do you expect this antenna/comm configuration to work? I used to fly my J-3 with a hand-held fitted with a head-set using a coax taped half way up the strut and grounded to a sheet copper 'wrapper' and a 1/4 wave trailing wire dangling from the center conductor. Worked over the distances (airport traffic area) and approach to the home field (7-10 miles out). A trailing wire would be less drag yet. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:31 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Open source wig-wag project; now light color At 12:55 PM 12/12/2012, you wrote: >Sacha, > > I have the same basic parameters you describe, and to add to your > questions, I have noticed in the automotive sphere, the halogens > appear in light blue and yellow lensed versions as well. What say > the experts is the highest visibility of the lot in a wig-wag setup? When we installed one of Roy Lopresti's first HID offerings in the experimental Bonanza at Beech, the tower complained that the color temperature of the HID was so much closer to blue-sky background that one couldn't see it as well as the stock incandescent landing/taxi light. I'm told that contemporary HIDs are not so badly afflicted. I recall reading of an experiment by the allies during WWII to mount a series of high color temperature lamps along leading edge of wings and adjusting intensity such that the airplane viewed from the front was more difficult to see against blue sky. Not sure how well it worked but the idea seems plausible if not heavy and something of a kluge. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:31 PM PST US From: Ralph Finch Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 2012 List of Contributors Hear, hear. I too would like to see an update to Kitlog Pro. I'd certainly consider paying for a major upgrade. If Matt will consider this I hope he solicits input from users to decide on features. Ralph Finch On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 3:44 PM, DeWitt (Dee) Whittington < dee.whittington@gmail.com> wrote: > Matt, > > I've donated to you for years. I and my three partners continue to build > our Sportsman and hopefully will fly in the Spring. However, this year I > held off donating because I'm waiting for an update to the Kitlog Pro > computer program you own. When you purchased Kitlog Pro, you said you would > clean it up and make it easier to use. As of now the interface is really > clunky and it cannot handle multiple builders of a single project, > something that in my experience is not uncommon. > > Have you decided such improvement of Kitlog Pro is not something you are > willing to spend time on? If you did I would enthusiastically endorse it to > other builders and start donating again. > > Dee Whittington > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.