---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/02/13: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:03 AM - Re: Indicator Help (Eric M. Jones) 2. 06:21 AM - Re: Indicator Help (user9253) 3. 06:30 AM - Re: Aeroled wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:04 AM - Re: Aeroled wiring (CHARLES T BECKER) 5. 07:37 AM - Re: Circuit breakers for sale (Dick Wildman) 6. 04:49 PM - Advisability of using anti-corrosion lubricant on contacts. (bobbarrow) 7. 05:05 PM - Re: Advisability of using anti-corrosion lubricant on contacts. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 05:12 PM - Re: Advisability of using anti-corrosion lubricant on contacts. (DeWitt (Dee) Whittington) 9. 05:43 PM - Re: Aeroled wiring (Rick Lark) 10. 06:41 PM - Re: Aeroled wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 06:56 PM - [Norton AntiSpam]Re: Switches all upside-down... (eschlanser) 12. 07:09 PM - Re: Advisability of using anti-corrosion lubricant on contacts. (Ken Lehman) 13. 07:32 PM - Re: Circuit breakers for sale (Richard Girard) 14. 09:00 PM - Re: Advisability of using anti-corrosion lubricant on contacts (bobbarrow) 15. 09:58 PM - Re: Indicator Help (hooverra) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:35 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Indicator Help From: "Eric M. Jones" As Dick Tasker posted, the reference voltage for the Ray Allen pot, which is routed way way way back to the trim box--probably right along side transmitter cables, etc, is 1.26V. This is the full-scale voltage available to the op amp feeding the bar graph circuitry. At the first digit it is 0.126V...and how anybody can expect no interference from transmitters, strobe...well, when pigs have wings, bacon will fly. The venerable LM914-based bar graph display is difficult to get (or make) in a sunlight readable form. These have succumbed to microprocessor-driven displays. I have posted several notes on this over the years, and have built a few devices to allow various options. But I want to say that the Ray Allen trim box is really a pretty good part. There are only a few things one can do to improve it. And I am not at all sure the alternative parts are any better. To reduce the speed of the trimmer, one needs to maintain the torque, but these devices are easy to get. Matt from Matronics sells one. See: http://www.matronics.com/governor/index.htm. I have vaporware device that will do this automatically depending on airspeed. But I have sold a lot of trimmers based on a potentiometer which seem to reduce this problem, since the potentiometer can be turned just a little, whereas a pushbutton or momentary switch lacks some finesse. I also uses no relay. Unfortunately our amazing "Cessna-Type Trim Wheel" is being retired. Reason: Too much labor in the assembly. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391435#391435 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/tscmr_installation_manual_400.pdf ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Indicator Help From: "user9253" Here is another source for linear actuators: http://firgelli.com/products.php -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391436#391436 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:30 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aeroled wiring At 09:15 PM 1/1/2013, you wrote: >Bob, a pair of Pulsar NS 90's and the Suntail. > >Here's a link to the installation instructions. > >http://www.aeroleds.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=VLoy7bgULOw%3d&tabid=6250 > >I've seen your description on how to add a faston connector to >shielding, so I'm basically proposing the same thing, just not at >the end of the wire. > >Make sense? > >Thx, Rick Their installation drawings don't make sense. ASSUMING that the installation has been proven to BENEFIT from shielded wire. Who is the victim, who is the antagonist and how does this shielding break the propagation? SOME led power supplies have proven problematic for integration into airplanes. One notable product are the LuxDrive supplies popular with some DIY position lights installations. We crafted a filter board for these power supplies to fix a fundamental shortcoming for use on aircraft. [] If the AEROLED product has a similar problem, shielding the power leads won't fix it. Similarly, if the AEROLED has some vulnerabilities to on-board transmitters, the once again, shielded wire wont fix it. Suggest you ditch the shielding (if the wires are already in place, use it as a bundled trio and ignore the shields. Install connectors as convenient to your anticipated service requirements. If a noise issue presents itself, let's attack the problem with the judicious application of filter(s). Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:27 AM PST US From: "CHARLES T BECKER" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aeroled wiring Thats exactly what I did on my installation and it seems to work just fine. Charlie Becker On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 22:15:59 -0500 Rick Lark wrote: > Bob, a pair of Pulsar NS 90's and the Suntail. > > Here's a link to the installation instructions. > > http://www.aeroleds.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=VLoy7bgULOw%3d&tabid=6250 > > I've seen your description on how to add a faston >connector to shielding, > so I'm basically proposing the same thing, just not at >the end of the wire. > > Make sense? > > Thx, Rick > > > > > On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III >< > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > >>Nuckolls, III" < >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**> >> >> At 08:09 PM 1/1/2013, you wrote: >> >>> Hi all >>> >>> I've started wiring my -10 and am wondering if what I'm >>>proposing is >>> within normal wiring standards. >>> >>> A shielded 20 ga, 3 conductor wire enters the wing tip >>>near the rear wing >>> spar, goes forward to the leading edge. I'd like to >>>remove about 2" of >>> outer insulation, 3' from the end, pull the shielding >>>away from the 3 >>> wires, solder another wire to the shield and ground to >>>the metal wing rib. >>> The 3' shielded wire then goes to the Aeroled light via >>>a 4 pin connector, >>> with the shielding tieing to the Aeroled base as per >>> installation >>> instructions. >>> >> >> what part number of AEROLED are you using? I'd >> like to see the instructions. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:40 AM PST US From: "Dick Wildman" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Circuit breakers for sale Hello; Are these A: Toggle breakers B: Pull Off C: Neither A or B Thanks Dick@minetfiber.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 4:16 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Circuit breakers for sale I have 9 NOS aircraft circuit breakers that I'd like to pass along to someone who can put them to use. Five are Wood Electric brand, 2 Five amp, 1 Eight amp, 1 Fifteen amp, and 2 Twenty amp. Four are Mechanical Product all are Ten amp. Four have no mounting nuts, none have a locator washer. $50 for all includes shipping to the lower 48 via Priority Mail. Rick Girard do not archive -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:55 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Advisability of using anti-corrosion lubricant on contacts. From: "bobbarrow" On my RV7A I decided to instal additional connectors at the subpanel so that I could easily remove the whole instrument panel for ready maintenance access. Obviously this has bequeathed me additional contacts. I am now wondering whether I should be using some anti-corrosion contact lubricant sprayed onto all of those contacts. Is that advisable, and if so, can some-one recommend a readily available dielectric product (brush on or spray on) that will protect the contacts against corrosion without damaging the actual plastic connectors. Cheers Bob Barrow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391490#391490 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:41 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Advisability of using anti-corrosion lubricant on contacts. >Is that advisable, and if so, can some-one recommend a readily >available dielectric product (brush on or spray on) that will >protect the contacts against corrosion without damaging the actual >plastic connectors. > >Cheers Bob Barrow What kind of connectors and what finish on the pins? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Advisability of using anti-corrosion lubricant on contacts. From: "DeWitt (Dee) Whittington" Best product on the market is CorrosionX. You can and should use it all over. During the 17 years I was Maintenance Manager of a four Cessna club, we fogged inside the wings, empenage, tailcone, etc. using a special pressure pot and very long wands . And I used it on all switches and electrical connecctors. There are competitors on the market, but for my money CorrosionX leads the pack. www.corrosionvproducts.com Sold by Aircraft Spruce, Amazon.com and many other dealers. Dee On Wednesday, January 2, 2013, bobbarrow wrote: > bobbarrow@bigpond.com > > > On my RV7A I decided to instal additional connectors at the subpanel so > that I could easily remove the whole instrument panel for ready maintenance > access. > > Obviously this has bequeathed me additional contacts. I am now wondering > whether I should be using some anti-corrosion contact lubricant sprayed > onto all of those contacts. > > Is that advisable, and if so, can some-one recommend a readily available > dielectric product (brush on or spray on) that will protect the contacts > against corrosion without damaging the actual plastic connectors. > > Cheers Bob Barrow > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391490#391490 > > -- DeWitt Whittington www.VirginiaFlyIn.org Building Glasair Sportsman with 3 partners ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aeroled wiring From: Rick Lark Bob, I believe the "victim"(s) are coax antenna and associated radios. The "antagonist", I'm not sure. I did speak to Dean at Aeroled, and I remember him talking about these lights not having a capacitor discharge, therfore the noise characteristics were different than "Whelan" type strobes. How the shielding breaks the propagation of noise, I have no idea. It's going to be months before I will have the strobes and radios powered up, but I'll let you know how I make out. Wiring has been installed, but no connections made. I'm planning to go to Sun & Fun so hopefully the Aeroled people are there and I will have a talk with them again. Thx, Rick On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > At 09:15 PM 1/1/2013, you wrote: > > Bob, a pair of Pulsar NS 90's and the Suntail. > > Here's a link to the installation instructions. > > http://www.aeroleds.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=VLoy7bgULOw%3d&tabid=6250 > > I've seen your description on how to add a faston connector to shielding, > so I'm basically proposing the same thing, just not at the end of the wire. > > Make sense? > > Thx, Rick > > > Their installation drawings don't make sense. > ASSUMING that the installation has been proven > to BENEFIT from shielded wire. Who is the victim, > who is the antagonist and how does this shielding > break the propagation? > > SOME led power supplies have proven problematic > for integration into airplanes. One notable product > are the LuxDrive supplies popular with some > DIY position lights installations. We crafted > a filter board for these power supplies to > fix a fundamental shortcoming for use on aircraft. > > > [image: []] > > If the AEROLED product has a similar problem, shielding > the power leads won't fix it. Similarly, if the AEROLED > has some vulnerabilities to on-board transmitters, the > once again, shielded wire wont fix it. > > Suggest you ditch the shielding (if the wires are already > in place, use it as a bundled trio and ignore the shields. > Install connectors as convenient to your anticipated > service requirements. > > If a noise issue presents itself, let's attack the > problem with the judicious application of filter(s). > > ** > > ** Bob . . . > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:45 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Aeroled wiring At 07:43 PM 1/2/2013, you wrote: >Bob, I believe the "victim"(s) are coax antenna and associated >radios. The "antagonist", I'm not sure. I did speak to Dean at >Aeroled, and I remember him talking about these lights not having a >capacitor discharge, therfore the noise characteristics were >different than "Whelan" type strobes. How the shielding breaks the >propagation of noise, I have no idea. > >It's going to be months before I will have the strobes and radios >powered up, but I'll let you know how I make out. Wiring has been >installed, but no connections made. I'm planning to go to Sun & >Fun so hopefully the Aeroled people are there and I will have a >talk with them again. > Yes, the noise is very different. While h.v. strobe systems are replete with fast-rise current/voltage waveforms at the flash rate of the strobes, the LED supply noise is an artifact of the switchmode, constant current power supply typically used to drive leds. If the AEROLED product generates noises at unacceptable levels, it's likely to be CONDUCTED noise that will propagate right down the power lines, shielded or not. Have Dean give me a call any time. My mobile phone is 316-209-7528. I'd like to explore his perceptions of noise issues for his product. I think we can be of service and perhaps save future customers from jumping unnecessary hoops. I'm 99% sure that shielding these wires is of no value. If there are noise problems to be addressed, then filters located at the source are called for. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:47 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: [Norton AntiSpam]Re: Switches all upside-down... From: "eschlanser" JOHN TIPTON wrote: > Why not use a pre drilled bus bar > http://www.chiefaircraft.com/aircraft/installation-supplies/terminal-blocks/ms-25226-10-16.html > which will not only give your switch/breaker spacing but your common feed > bus bar (for the breakers) > > John > > --- Because I'm using fuses and toggle switches instead of circuit breakers. Eric Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391502#391502 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:21 PM PST US From: "Ken Lehman" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Advisability of using anti-corrosion lubricant on contacts. Below is an interesting read and the first time I've seen legitimate cautions against using corrosion-x type products too liberally. I've never seen a problem with it myself and have been a big believer in the product. Ken AIRWORTHINESS BULLETIN Corrosion Inhibiting Compounds and Effects on Aircraft Structural Joints. AWB 02-042 Issue : 1 Date : 23 November 2012 Page 1 of 2 1. Effectivity This AWB is applicable to all aircraft. 2. Purpose To advise maintainers, registered operators and manufacturers on the unintended mechanisms that could result when corrosion inhibiting compounds are applied to aircraft structural joints. 3. Background A recent study has been carried out into the effects of corrosion inhibiting compounds (CIC) on aircraft structural joints. The work formed the basis for a Phd thesis and was funded by CASA. The resulting outcomes are promulgated in this AWB for the benefit of the aviation industry. The study involved identification of common aircraft structural joints and testing of representative structural specimens in which conclusions were drawn. 4. Recommendations That the use of water displacing thin film CIC can offer substantial benefits in terms of preventing and/or retarding corrosion. Any change in the use, frequency or application of these compounds should be done in close consultation with the aircraft manufacturer before making changes to the Corrosion Prevention and Control Program (CPCP) for the aircraft. An approved change should be via Service Bulletin or Letter or approved as maintenance data under CAR 2A(4). Research has shown that the use of CICs on structural joints that rely on friction/clamp up force and are primarily in shear, such as aircraft lap joints, may experience a reduction in fatigue life due to the ingress of CICs on the faying surfaces of the joint. This effect is more apparent for highly loaded joints where CIC application can exacerbate relative movement within the joint. The use of CICs on certain lap joint specimens tested shifted the failure mode from sheet failure to a less desirable rivet failure mode at higher loading. Caution should be exercised in applying CIC to aircraft structural joints known to be highly loaded and/or fatigue critical. Fatigue critical joints tested in the analysis showed a reduction in fatigue life of up to half when CIC were introduced. Where a fatigue crack has been initiated, the use of CICs has been shown to increase the fatigue crack growth rate. AIRWORTHINESS BULLETIN Corrosion Inhibiting Compounds and Effects on Aircraft Structural Joints. AWB 02-042 Issue : 1 Date : 23 November 2012 Page 2 of 2 Careful sheet metal work practices should be followed during the manufacture and repair of aircraft structures to ensure that the correct rivet driving (clamp-up) force has been applied during installation. Rivets that do not meet correct tail diameter specifications (i.e. D/Do = 1.5) can result in working (smoking) of rivets under normal conditions and coupled with the application of CICs, may result in joint fatigue life reduction. Working rivets can lead to premature rivet failure with a subsequent increase in loading on surrounding fasteners. CICs should not be employed (without appropriate demonstration of safety) in aircraft featuring unusual construction or materials such as non-metallic structure or adhesives not normally employed in modern aircraft. Caution should also be followed for the application of CIC near and around aircraft electrical system wiring. 5. Summary If CICs are used appropriately they can offer substantial benefits in protecting aircraft structure however caution should be exercised to ensure that they are applied in accordance with the manufacturers instructions. 6. Reporting Aircraft defects should be reported via the SDR system in accordance with the requirements of CAR Part 4B. 7. Enquiries Enquiries with regard to the content of this Airworthiness Bulletin should be made via the direct link e-mail address: AirworthinessBulletin@casa.gov.au or in writing, to: Airworthiness & Engineering Branch Civil Aviation Safety Authority GPO Box 2005, Canberra, ACT, 2601 > > > Best product on the market is CorrosionX. You can and should use it all > over. During the 17 years I was Maintenance Manager of a four Cessna club, > we fogged inside the wings, empenage, tailcone, etc. using a special > pressure pot and very long wands . And I used it on all switches and > electrical connecctors. There are competitors on the market, but for my > money CorrosionX leads the pack. www.corrosionvproducts.com Sold by > Aircraft Spruce, Amazon.com and many other dealers. > > Dee > > > On Wednesday, January 2, 2013, bobbarrow wrote: > > > bobbarrow@bigpond.com > > > > > On my RV7A I decided to instal additional connectors at the subpanel so > > that I could easily remove the whole instrument panel for ready maintenance > > access. > > > > Obviously this has bequeathed me additional contacts. I am now wondering > > whether I should be using some anti-corrosion contact lubricant sprayed > > onto all of those contacts. > > > > Is that advisable, and if so, can some-one recommend a readily available > > dielectric product (brush on or spray on) that will protect the contacts > > against corrosion without damaging the actual plastic connectors. > > > > Cheers Bob Barrow > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Circuit breakers for sale From: Richard Girard Dick, "C". The center button pops out when the breaker is tripped and you push it back in to reset. Rick On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Dick Wildman wrote: > ** > Hello; > > Are these > > A: Toggle breakers > > B: Pull Off > > C: Neither A or B > > Thanks > > Dick@minetfiber.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Richard Girard > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 01, 2013 4:16 PM > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: Circuit breakers for sale > > I have 9 NOS aircraft circuit breakers that I'd like to pass along to > someone who can put them to use. Five are Wood Electric brand, 2 Five amp, > 1 Eight amp, 1 Fifteen amp, and 2 Twenty amp. Four are Mechanical Product > all are Ten amp. Four have no mounting nuts, none have a locator washer. > $50 for all includes shipping to the lower 48 via Priority Mail. > > Rick Girard > do not archive > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > * > > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:10 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Advisability of using anti-corrosion lubricant on contacts From: "bobbarrow" What kind of connectors and what finish on the pins? Power through Mil-C-26482 circular connectors with M39029 crimped contacts. Signals through M24308 DSub connectors with M39029 crimped contacts. The M39029 contacts are typically gold plated copper alloy. However the female contact for the circular connector seems to have a stainless steel socket. I have Corrosion X and LPS 1, 2, and 3 in stock. I note that the spec on Corrosion X says it can be applied to "electrical and avionics components such as micro switches, Cannon plugs, antenna bases, circuit breakers, and bus bars. The warning on Corrosion X in aircraft pertains to a research paper into the the affects that the lubricity of Corrosion X could have on friction mated structural components in shear. Nothing to do with use on electrical components. I also have the normal run of behind-the-firewall connectors in the form of spades and ring terminals (forest of spade tabs for ground, bus bar ring terminals etc). These might benefit from some corrosion protection as well. What do you think. Is a little corrosion X in order. Cheers Bob Barrow Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391510#391510 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:41 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Indicator Help From: "hooverra" [quote="retasker(at)optonline.net"]Here is the schematic for the Ray Allen indicator. As shipped it uses a 5k pot. Since the wiper of the pot drives a high impedance op amp node you could just add a 10K resistor in parallel with the 10K pot in your actuator (between white and yellow) and the LEDs should work properly. Dick Tasker Dick, I believe adding a 10k parallel fixed resistor wil not add anything to the issue. True the total load on the power supply would be equal but the voltage divider provided by the potentiometer would be unaffected. At the center of travel the source impedience of the potentiometer should look like 2.5k with a 5k linear pot and 5k with a 10 k pot. The input of the indicator should not care if it is a high impedience >100k. If less than that it will become more noticeably nonlinear. Ralph -------- Ralph & Laura Hoover RV7A N527LR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391511#391511 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.