Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:05 AM - Re: Redundant Fuel pump wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 08:31 AM - Re: Aeroled wiring (Mike Fontenot)
3. 08:41 AM - Re: Redundant Fuel pump wiring (Yahoo hasbroucka)
4. 11:01 AM - Re: Redundant Fuel pump wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 11:01 AM - Re: Aeroled wiring (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 02:14 PM - Substitute Midi Fuse instead of ANL Fuse (user9253)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Redundant Fuel pump wiring |
>>Where to source the electric for each is less clear. Seems to me
>>that connecting as close to the battery as possible is best (least
>>points of failure), but do I source them both from the same place?
>>Anywhere else just adds points of failure, and for what good?
>
> I'd run them both from the battery bus. Include
> indicator lights to show when one is ON. Make
> sure that they are included in the shutdown
> checklist to insure OFF for parking.
ON FURTHER REFLECTION . . . run one from
the battery bus, the other from the main
bus.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aeroled wiring |
>>I'm assuming you used the shielded, 3 conductor 20 ga wire that Aeroled
recommends?
No, at the time of my installation they simply specified regular 18ga
wire. I did install it with a twist the entire length. Like I said, I've
just been too busy and unable to address this. When I get the time I will
go back and review their latest suggestions.
I would just suggest that people considering LEDs should not assume they
will be noise free (because they are LEDs!). I like mine a lot, they are
low amp usage, very bright, easy to configure as sync'd lights, but the
actual noise-free install is somewhat more complicated than I appreciated.
Two+ years ago we were all a bit less educated on this (I certainly was),
but it seems these issues are better understood.
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 7:37 PM, Rick Lark <larkrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Mike, Sorry to hear you've got a problem.
>
> I'm assuming you used the shielded, 3 conductor 20 ga wire that Aeroled
> recommends? Did you run the wire separately or in wire bundles and/or with
> any coax antennae cable?
>
> Any help is appreciated.
>
> Regards, Rick
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Mike Fontenot <mikefapex@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have the AeroLeds (two of the combined nav light/white strobe units)
>> installed on my trike (Z19 RB). I wired up as per their instructions but
>> they exhibit a small 'three click' noise in my headsets every time they
>> flash. Not very loud but frustrating since all the other electrics work
>> just fine.
>>
>> I've not had time to do further debugging since early last year/2012 but
>> I tried their suggestions of ferrite wraps. This did not help.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>>
>>> At 07:43 PM 1/2/2013, you wrote:
>>>
>>> Bob, I believe the "victim"(s) are coax antenna and associated radios.
>>> The "antagonist", I'm not sure. I did speak to Dean at Aeroled, and I
>>> remember him talking about these lights not having a capacitor discharge,
>>> therfore the noise characteristics were different than "Whelan" type
>>> strobes. How the shielding breaks the propagation of noise, I have no idea.
>>>
>>> It's going to be months before I will have the strobes and radios
>>> powered up, but I'll let you know how I make out. Wiring has been
>>> installed, but no connections made. I'm planning to go to Sun & Fun so
>>> hopefully the Aeroled people are there and I will have a talk with them
>>> again.
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, the noise is very different. While
>>> h.v. strobe systems are replete with fast-rise
>>> current/voltage waveforms at the flash rate
>>> of the strobes, the LED supply noise is
>>> an artifact of the switchmode, constant
>>> current power supply typically used to
>>> drive leds.
>>>
>>> If the AEROLED product generates noises at
>>> unacceptable levels, it's likely to be
>>> CONDUCTED noise that will propagate right
>>> down the power lines, shielded or not.
>>>
>>> Have Dean give me a call any time. My mobile
>>> phone is 316-209-7528. I'd like to explore
>>> his perceptions of noise issues for his product.
>>> I think we can be of service and perhaps save
>>> future customers from jumping unnecessary
>>> hoops.
>>>
>>> I'm 99% sure that shielding these wires is
>>> of no value. If there are noise problems to
>>> be addressed, then filters located at the
>>> source are called for.
>>>
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> ** Bob . . .
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>> ==========
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Redundant Fuel pump wiring |
Bob, Care to describe what you are thinking. What advantage is there to
having one on the Main Bus?
Alan , HasbrouckA@yahoo.com
SeaRey Amphibian, framework and hull assembled (not covered). Working on
VFR
avionics and wiring (Dynon Skyview full suite). Top Priority is keep it
light, and place weight forward!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Redundant Fuel pump wiring
Where to source the electric for each is less clear. Seems to me that
connecting as close to the battery as possible is best (least points of
failure), but do I source them both from the same place? Anywhere else
just
adds points of failure, and for what good?
I'd run them both from the battery bus. Include
indicator lights to show when one is ON. Make
sure that they are included in the shutdown
checklist to insure OFF for parking.
ON FURTHER REFLECTION . . . run one from
the battery bus, the other from the main
bus.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Redundant Fuel pump wiring |
At 10:42 AM 1/7/2013, you wrote:
>Bob, Care to describe what you are thinking. What advantage is there
>to having one on the Main Bus?
Independent power paths with no common failure
points.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aeroled wiring |
At 10:31 AM 1/7/2013, you wrote:
>>I'm assuming you used the shielded, 3 conductor 20 ga wire that
Aeroled recommends?
No, at the time of my installation they simply specified regular 18ga
wire. I did install it with a twist the entire length. Like I said,
I've just been too busy and unable to address this. When I get the
time I will go back and review their latest suggestions.
I would just suggest that people considering LEDs should not assume
they will be noise free (because they are LEDs!). I like mine a lot,
they are low amp usage, very bright, easy to configure as sync'd
lights, but the actual noise-free install is somewhat more
complicated than I appreciated. Two+ years ago we were all a bit less
educated on this (I certainly was), but it seems these issues are
better understood.
LED lamps are, like their incandescent predecessors
are quite noise free. Problem is that they are low
voltage (2-4 volt) devices best driven as series
parallel arrays by constant current power supplies.
The power supplies are POWER OSCILLATORS with high
probability of harmonic content that extends into
the range of interest for radios. There may also
be switching transients generated by wig-wag flashing
that propagate mainly on the power supply lines.
Here's the problem. These devices are advertised with
claims to having been awarded PMA for use aboard
type certificated airplanes. This implies that they've
been tested to the legacy electro-magnetic compatability
issues common to thousands of other products presently
sold into the TC aircraft industry.
When you're jumping the DO-160 EMC hoops, the product
is treated as a stand-alone 'black box'. It must meet
emissions standards without regard to installation
issues. A requirement for shielded power/control wiring
or a suggestion for avoiding wire bundles carrying other
airframe wires is not allowed.
I've written to AEROLED asking to have some conversation
with one or more of their techno-wienies with a goal
for understanding more about (1) installation
recommendations and (2) noise experiences articulated
here on the List.
There's a BIG disconnect here. I'll continue to pursue
a better understanding. ASSUMING we discover that AEROLED
recommendations for installation are VALID, then the
quality of their PMA is in doubt . . . which is really
immaterial to our task. It may be that a simple set
of filter components located at the power and control
terminals of the device will eliminate the noises. In
any case, shielded wire or selective routing of wires
is a band-aid that admits to less than optimum design
of the product.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Substitute Midi Fuse instead of ANL Fuse |
A friend of mine, Larry, wants to use a Midi Fuse instead of an ANL to protect
the battery and wires from a possible shorted alternator. His Viking engine comes
with a 40 amp alternator. The Midi Fuse is physically smaller than the ANL
and will take up less room on his crowded firewall.
Question 1: Is it OK to use a Midi Fuse for this application?
Question 2: Should a 40 or a 50 amp fuse be used?
Midi fuse data sheet: http://tinyurl.com/axeza2t
Thanks, Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=391773#391773
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