---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/17/13: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:04 AM - SEO Management (georgetrichal) 2. 03:09 AM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Jan de Jong) 3. 05:37 AM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Robert Borger) 4. 06:21 AM - Re: Crimping Question (Eric M. Jones) 5. 07:50 AM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 07:52 AM - Re: Re: vhf transponder interference (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 09:05 AM - Re: Lithium batteries redux (Jan de Jong) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:45 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: SEO Management From: "georgetrichal" SEO Management Company. SEO Management (http://lotusofgoogle.com/) , search engine optimization management, SEO Management Company You Can Trust .. Absolutely Dominate is an SEO Management Company that you can trust to handle all of your SEO needs. Our team can help figure a method that will help you manage unethical competitors, unhappy employees, absurd clients, Anonymous records and so forth. Unlike a lot of other companies that require you to commit to a long term contract, we are so confident in the services we provide that we are willing to work with you on a month-to-month basis. Plus, our SEO pricing is designed so that even small companies that are on a limited budget can easily afford our SEO services. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392481#392481 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:09:52 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux Robert, This is a disappointing endurance.. The battery is advertised as 20 PbEq Ah - a meaningless number introduced by Shorai for marketing reasons. The actual maximum energy content should be about 6.5 Ah (Shorai applied a factor 3, Aerovoltz/Ballistic probably do the same). At a 1 to 2C discharge rate from 12.4 (under load) to 11 V you should get about 90% of that out of a fully charged battery. That is 60 minutes at 6 A, 40 minutes at 9 A, 30 minutes at 12 A. I would have expected at least twice as long as 20 minutes... Jan de Jong On 1/17/2013 1:35 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > > Gents, > > With the Boeing 787 Dreamliner being grounded till their Li batteries can be checked, I figure it's a good time to report on my new AeroVoltz LiFePo battery. > > I said that I'd report on any testing I did on the AeroVoltz battery. Today I turned on the master which powered up the, Turbo Control Unit (Rotax 914), the GRT EIS4000 Engine Information System and the Airmaster AC200 prop controller. I then turned on the MicroAir 760 Comm radio and MicroAir T2000 transponder. With the comm radio tuned between ASOS, Ground Control & Tower (I swapped between them) and the transponder set on ALT DISPLAY (so the encoder was fired up as well), the voltage started at 12.4 Volts. It took almost exactly 20 minutes for the voltage to sag down to 11 Volts. When the voltage went to 10.9 Volts, I terminated the test and put the battery on cell balance charge. > > So there you have it. 20 minutes on what I would consider the minimum load. If for any reason I needed to be in the air longer than that to make it to the closest airport and that airport had a tower, I would probably shut down the radio and, maybe, the transponder till they were needed. Maybe even pull the breaker on the prop controller till needed. That would leave the only load as the EIS and TCU which should extend the battery life further. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > > On Jan 8, 2013, at 4:20 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > > Bob, > > You may very well be correct, but I've gone out on a limb that I trust will support me and the aircraft. > > I have purchased and installed an Aerovoltz 12 Cell EV02 LiFePo battery in my Europa. The LiFePo battery is not supposed to be the fire hazard that the LiFe battery is. It is amazingly small and light. About 12 lbs lighter than the Odyssey it replaces. > > I would not have done this had my Rotax 914 still been electric dependent with two electric fuel pumps. about 2 years ago I replaced one of the electric pumps with an engine driven, mechanical pump so the engine will continue to operate should the electrics go totally dead. > > So far, in 2 hours of testing on the ground and 1 hour in the air, all seems well. It spins the Rotax on startup just like the Odyessy. I purchased the special charger that will do fast, 5A, charge; slow. 2A, charge; maintenance, .1A, charge/float and cell balancing. I have not done any time/power testing. I need to see how long it will run the radio, transponder and GRT EIS 4000 and then test with only the radio and EIS. When this is done, I will report the results. > > The seller of the battery did warn not to discharge below 9v as that would probably permanently damage the battery. And if discharged to below 11 volts, it must be recharged in the cell balance mode. > > Isn't this one reason why we call it Experimental? > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux From: Robert Borger Jan, I agree. It is disappointing. I had hoped for at least 30 minutes on the tested load. The battery works fine for cranking the engine but does not have the endurance I would have liked under a small load. I don't think there is any way this battery would work for an electrically dependent aircraft. Blue skies & tailwinds, Bob Borger Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208-5331 Cel: 817-992-1117 rlborger@mac.com On Jan 17, 2013, at 5:06 AM, Jan de Jong wrote: Robert, This is a disappointing endurance.. The battery is advertised as 20 PbEq Ah - a meaningless number introduced by Shorai for marketing reasons. The actual maximum energy content should be about 6.5 Ah (Shorai applied a factor 3, Aerovoltz/Ballistic probably do the same). At a 1 to 2C discharge rate from 12.4 (under load) to 11 V you should get about 90% of that out of a fully charged battery. That is 60 minutes at 6 A, 40 minutes at 9 A, 30 minutes at 12 A. I would have expected at least twice as long as 20 minutes... Jan de Jong On 1/17/2013 1:35 AM, Robert Borger wrote: > > Gents, > > With the Boeing 787 Dreamliner being grounded till their Li batteries can be checked, I figure it's a good time to report on my new AeroVoltz LiFePo battery. > > I said that I'd report on any testing I did on the AeroVoltz battery. Today I turned on the master which powered up the, Turbo Control Unit (Rotax 914), the GRT EIS4000 Engine Information System and the Airmaster AC200 prop controller. I then turned on the MicroAir 760 Comm radio and MicroAir T2000 transponder. With the comm radio tuned between ASOS, Ground Control & Tower (I swapped between them) and the transponder set on ALT DISPLAY (so the encoder was fired up as well), the voltage started at 12.4 Volts. It took almost exactly 20 minutes for the voltage to sag down to 11 Volts. When the voltage went to 10.9 Volts, I terminated the test and put the battery on cell balance charge. > > So there you have it. 20 minutes on what I would consider the minimum load. If for any reason I needed to be in the air longer than that to make it to the closest airport and that airport had a tower, I would probably shut down the radio and, maybe, the transponder till they were needed. Maybe even pull the breaker on the prop controller till needed. That would leave the only load as the EIS and TCU which should extend the battery life further. > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:58 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Crimping Question From: "Eric M. Jones" I'd go with using grease used sparingly and selectively. Grease keeps out all sort of environmental contaminants. What seems wrong about this is that grease certainly is an insulator, but so is any space that it fills, and filling up any empty spaces with grease prevents water, air and nervous sweat from getting in there. In electronics, thermally conductive grease serves the same purpose but adds high thermal conductivity to the joint. The caveat "thin layer" always appears in the instructions, since a thick layer reduces both the thermal and electrical properties. I heard a story of one particularly brilliant electronic engineer who finished each prototype with a dollop of grease in the corner of the box. He said if a loose piece of solder or cut wire showed up, that's where it would wind up. But yeah, grease attracts dirt too, so use sparingly. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=392491#392491 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:02 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux At 07:35 AM 1/17/2013, you wrote: > >Jan, > >I agree. It is disappointing. I had hoped for at least 30 minutes >on the tested load. > >The battery works fine for cranking the engine but does not have the >endurance I would have liked under a small load. I don't think >there is any way this battery would work for an electrically >dependent aircraft. Are there any data packages available for these batteries? Discharge curves, engineering data? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:09 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: vhf transponder interference At 07:56 PM 1/16/2013, you wrote: > >hello > >Went to my hangar last week, started to remove radio equipment. Took >the coax cable and brought it to work to show to the "experts", >Electronic Dept. > >One BNC connector is a twist (screw-in) type, I find that cheap to >use on aircraft (personal opinion). Anyway, we started un-twisting >the connector and wow, no crimp with the middle pin, is that normal >? and shield was almost gone !! see picture. >Coax is (was) RG58C/U and will be replaced by RG142. > > It was time to replace that connector before it flew for the first time! Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:01 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Lithium batteries redux Not that I know. But, FWIW, I believe the Ballistic and Aerovoltz batteries (among other) are constituted from A123 ANR26650 cells: http://www.a123systems.com/Collateral/Documents/English-US/A123%20Systems%20ANR26650%20Data%20Sheet.pdf The 12 cell item (4 x 3) should then have capacity of at least 7.2 Ah and internal resistance of 8 mOhm. Discharge voltage degradation at low temperatures to be noted. Jan de Jong On 1/17/2013 4:48 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 07:35 AM 1/17/2013, you wrote: >> >> >> Jan, >> >> I agree. It is disappointing. I had hoped for at least 30 minutes >> on the tested load. >> >> The battery works fine for cranking the engine but does not have the >> endurance I would have liked under a small load. I don't think there >> is any way this battery would work for an electrically dependent >> aircraft. > > Are there any data packages available for these > batteries? Discharge curves, engineering data? > > > Bob . . . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.