---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/29/13: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:56 AM - Re: LED light experiment (Andrewjames) 2. 01:57 AM - Re: LEDs (Andrewjames) 3. 05:36 AM - Re: LED light experiment (Eric M. Jones) 4. 07:26 AM - Re: Load Calculations and bus layout for comment (user9253) 5. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: LED light experiment (SWAN MGT LLC/M WYNN) 6. 02:18 PM - Re: Grounding a Super Cub (Peter Pengilly) 7. 02:59 PM - Re: Grounding a Super Cub (Tundra10) 8. 04:37 PM - Re: Grounding a Super Cub (Charlie England) 9. 08:36 PM - Re: Grounding a Super Cub (Tundra10) 10. 09:18 PM - Re: Grounding a Super Cub (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 10:10 PM - Re: Grounding a Super Cub (Tundra10) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:28 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED light experiment From: "Andrewjames" [quote="wynaire(at)citlink.net"]Hello Eric, Many thanks for the "hand-holding exercise." I envy your expertise. What [project] seemed simple becomes a bit complicated, though doable, I hope. This morning my experimenting led to placing a white [6000k] 10 watt LED being a FAA nav green (blue) glass lens. The resultant visible color was not even close to green. Thanks for the tip on the FAA wanting a specific color in wavelengths. At least I know where to start, once back in the lab (basement shop). At least so far, I have the white strobe light (color) nailed down. That's a start! Do you [or anyone reading this] have a suggestion as to how to best measure lumens? Would an older type of photo light-meter work in this case, held a set distance for each test? As well, does any one know why the LED manufacturers use a "flexible clear colloid" to cover the active LED material? Is this an inexpensive way to seal the active material, or something else? I want to mount the end of a polished acrylic rod as close as possible to a LED, for light transmission. This colloid material is fragil. Several LED OEM's have not responded to this question. My best regards, Mike Moab, UT *********** > --- Hello. I am not wellknown to led lights and you seems to be experienced person. I want to install led lights in my home. What is your suggestion? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393219#393219 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:57:02 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LEDs From: "Andrewjames" wynaire(at)citlink.net wrote: > Thanks Eric M J, > You (and others) have provided here a wealth of info that obviously will go > a long way to shortening the [my] trial and error period. Kudos to your > reply, your web page design and the info therein. Bach at you after I > "smoke" a few more LED's. ;) > Mike > Moab, UT > ***************** > > > --- hello I need to buy led lights in bulk for my house. Any reliable source which can provide me best possible price Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393220#393220 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:26 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED light experiment From: "Eric M. Jones" > Hello. I am not well known to led lights and you seems to be experienced person. I want to install led lights in my home. What is your suggestion? > AndrewJames For DIYers and LED flashlights I refer people to Deal Extreme (DX.com) For household lighting, the big-box stores are selling now. The price is high but the selection is good and getting better. By year's end it will be a whole new world for lighting. FYI, Cree is now marketing led chips of >200 lumens/watt. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393222#393222 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:43 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Load Calculations and bus layout for comment From: "user9253" A half amp can be saved by reducing the holding current of the master relay after starting. This subject has been discussed here in the past. Or the master can be shut off after starting and an automotive relay turned on in parallel (with engine starting disabled). The "Charge LED" current seems excessive by a factor of 10. It is not needed anyway because the SkyView has built-in low voltage warning. The O.V. relay coil current is too high. Relays are available with less than 0.1 amp coil current. The landing light does not need to be counted as part of the continuous load. After landing, the battery should be put on a charger - maintainer. The second SkyView can be turned off most of the time and used only when needed. Or consider a D-180 or other EFIS that uses less current. (And less weight, less cost) I would definitely have an autopilot. To me, that is more important than a second EFIS. The flight control indicators are all built into the SkyView. Separate indicators are not needed. The Rotax voltage regulator / rectifier is the weak link in the charging system. It should be kept cool! And not operated at maximum. Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393223#393223 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:43 AM PST US From: "SWAN MGT LLC/M WYNN" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED light experiment Hi. My advice is to go to EBay.com and search for "LED lights." There are many to chose from. Often the seller offers basic instructions for use. Good luck, Mike *********** ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrewjames" Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:54 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED light experiment > > > [quote="wynaire(at)citlink.net"]Hello Eric, > Many thanks for the "hand-holding exercise." I envy your expertise. What > [project] seemed simple becomes a bit complicated, though doable, I hope. > This morning my experimenting led to placing a white [6000k] 10 watt LED > being a FAA nav green (blue) glass lens. The resultant visible color was > not even close to green. Thanks for the tip on the FAA wanting a specific > color in wavelengths. At least I know where to start, once back in the > lab (basement shop). > > At least so far, I have the white strobe light (color) nailed down. > That's a start! > > Do you [or anyone reading this] have a suggestion as to how to best > measure lumens? Would an older type of photo light-meter work in this > case, held a set distance for each test? > > As well, does any one know why the LED manufacturers use a "flexible > clear colloid" to cover the active LED material? Is this an inexpensive > way to seal the active material, or something else? I want to mount the > end of a polished acrylic rod as close as possible to a LED, for light > transmission. This colloid material is fragil. Several LED OEM's have > not responded to this question. > My best regards, > Mike > Moab, UT > *********** > > >> --- > > > Hello. I am not wellknown to led lights and you seems to be experienced > person. I want to install led lights in my home. What is your suggestion? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393219#393219 > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:38 PM PST US From: Peter Pengilly Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding a Super Cub Jeff, I have tube & fabric aircraft with an IO-360 and the battery in the back. I have a tab welded on on the engine mount and a tab welded on the frame near to the battery both used for earth strap connection. What is the down side of putting very short duration starter current through the engine mount, and equally through the fuselage frame? Why would the (very thin) firewall be any better? Can you provide some more details where you obtained your understanding from? I think you are mis-informed. Most people I know have saved the weight of a 2nd heavy gauge wire by using the fuselage frame as the ground return. Peter On 29/01/2013 06:25, Jeff Page wrote: > > A friend of mine is building a tube and fabric aircraft with an O360. > The tubes are thin wall 4130. The battery is in the rear. > My understanding is that it is normally preferable to ground strap the > engine directly to the firewall, rather than to the engine mount, > since this avoids putting starter currents through the engine mount. > If that is correct, then I wonder whether putting starter currents > through the frame is also a bad idea, and running a heavy wire from > the battery to the firewall is desirable ? > > Jeff Page > Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:59:54 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Grounding a Super Cub From: "Tundra10" Peter, I looked back into Bob's book trying to find it, but although he says connect the ground strap from engine to firewall (better than using the P-leads!), it doesn't say there that that using the engine mount is bad. Searching this list, I found the "rules" by which Bob Nuckolls would wire his own airplane: Rule 9 includes this bit: Any ground straps provided around the rubber biscuits of an engine mount will be removed. Engine mounts are for holding engines on airplanes and not used for any part of the electrical system. I have extrapolated that to assume that starter current through the engine mount is undesirable. My imagination sees a similarity between a 200A arc welder and 200A of starter current and wonders what happens to the welds as the current passes through ? The firewall is just the convenient place for a single point ground. If there is no problem with using the frame, we would wire it as battery to local tab on frame at the rear, plus firewall to local tab on frame at firewall, plus firewall to engine. If there is a problem, then it would be 2WG from battery to firewall, firewall to local tab on frame and firewall to engine. This is heavier by the 2AWG cable from the battery to the firewall, but one less connection. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393247#393247 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:21 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding a Super Cub 1. Steel has a much higher resistance than copper. 2. One way to make a magnet is to pass a DC current through a ferrous metal (steel). FWIW..... Charlie On 01/29/2013 04:17 PM, Peter Pengilly wrote: > > > Jeff, > > I have tube & fabric aircraft with an IO-360 and the battery in the > back. I have a tab welded on on the engine mount and a tab welded on > the frame near to the battery both used for earth strap connection. > What is the down side of putting very short duration starter current > through the engine mount, and equally through the fuselage frame? Why > would the (very thin) firewall be any better? Can you provide some > more details where you obtained your understanding from? I think you > are mis-informed. Most people I know have saved the weight of a 2nd > heavy gauge wire by using the fuselage frame as the ground return. > > Peter > > On 29/01/2013 06:25, Jeff Page wrote: >> >> A friend of mine is building a tube and fabric aircraft with an >> O360. The tubes are thin wall 4130. The battery is in the rear. >> My understanding is that it is normally preferable to ground strap >> the engine directly to the firewall, rather than to the engine mount, >> since this avoids putting starter currents through the engine mount. >> If that is correct, then I wonder whether putting starter currents >> through the frame is also a bad idea, and running a heavy wire from >> the battery to the firewall is desirable ? >> >> Jeff Page >> Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 >> >> ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:58 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Grounding a Super Cub From: "Tundra10" Yes, a magnetized frame would make compass swings pretty difficult. When Bob discussed using the airframe as ground in the Book, he seemed to be referring to all metal aircraft, which would be aluminum. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393257#393257 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:32 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grounding a Super Cub >I have tube & fabric aircraft with an IO-360 and the battery in the >back. I have a tab welded on on the engine mount and a tab welded on >the frame near to the battery both used for earth strap connection. >What is the down side of putting very short duration starter current >through the engine mount, and equally through the fuselage frame? They're magnetic materials . . . steel . . . with higher resistance than copper. While carrying high currents, the steel conductors generate strong local magnetic fields which do not go completely away after the current goes to zero. Remote battery grounding on aluminum airplanes is less problematic . . . but many builders still run starter currents through the engine mount and/or fire wall sheet . . . for the most part they don't perceive any problems. Performance degradation is most likely to present during cold weather cranking. So MANY things pile on top of each other in cold weather that one is unlikely to see much difference fore wired vs. airframe battery ground. But a combination of design and preventative maintenance efforts can add up to a significant difference. Those would include selection of starter, keeping the battery well maintained, minimizing joints in the cranking path, and in extreme conditions, warming the engine and battery, etc. > Why would the (very thin) firewall be any better? It's not. I try NEVER to depend on fire wall sheet for anything other than grounding of light draw accessories like case-ground regulators, facet fuel pumps, starter contactors, etc. > Most people I know have saved the weight of a 2nd heavy gauge wire > by using the fuselage frame as the ground return. Which is what's been done on thousands of airplanes for 100+ years . . . but I'm aware of no study that quantifies performance or maintenance issues for having done so. My personal design goals call for a minimum number of made up joints between battery (-) and crankcase and avoid using airframe ground for all but the few outlying appliances depicted in Figure Z-15. The ideal battery ground is an engine-cranking-sized-wire from battery(-) to fire wall single-point ground . . . and a second conductor from single-point ground stud to the crankcase. But if one wishes to embrace another philosophy, it will probably function. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:29 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Grounding a Super Cub From: "Tundra10" Bob, I am going to suggest he go with your recommendations. He is keenly interested in being able to start in remote locations. What you say makes sense. Thanks (again) for your very helpful advice. Jeff Page Dream Aircraft Tundra #10 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=393261#393261 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.