---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/09/13: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:36 AM - Li-Ion hazards (Jan de Jong) 2. 10:59 AM - Re: Li-Ion hazards (rayj) 3. 11:08 AM - Re: OT: SMT solder bridge (rayj) 4. 11:08 AM - Re: Li-Ion hazards (Roger & Jean Curtis) 5. 11:17 AM - Soldering knowledge source (rayj) 6. 11:21 AM - Re: Li-Ion hazards (rayj) 7. 11:44 AM - Re: Li-Ion hazards (Tim Olson) 8. 11:46 AM - SD-20 Alternator / SB1B-14 regulator failure modes - update (Ralph E. Capen) 9. 12:50 PM - Re: Li-Ion hazards (Richard Girard) 10. 01:57 PM - Re: Li-Ion hazards (Jan de Jong) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:47 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: AeroElectric-List: Li-Ion hazards For those who are really interested a comprehensive treatment of the dangers of Li-Ion: http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Research/RFLithiumIonBatteriesHazard.pdf LiFePO4 is a lot less volatile and violent than most of the Li-Ion group. But it shares unfortunate properties: - thermal runaway can never be excluded: undetectable internal damage may exist and trigger at the end of a charging cycle - the electrolyte is flammable hydrocarbons I looks like "containment" will be part of any aviation design with Li-Ion batteries. Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:40 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Li-Ion hazards Thanks for posting this. Thereis no substitute forgood science and the knowledge gained from it. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 02/09/2013 11:34 AM, Jan de Jong wrote: > > > For those who are really interested a comprehensive treatment of the > dangers of Li-Ion: > http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Research/RFLithiumIonBatteriesHazard.pdf > > > LiFePO4 is a lot less volatile and violent than most of the Li-Ion group. > But it shares unfortunate properties: > - thermal runaway can never be excluded: undetectable internal damage > may exist and trigger at the end of a charging cycle > - the electrolyte is flammable hydrocarbons > > I looks like "containment" will be part of any aviation design with > Li-Ion batteries. > > Jan de Jong > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:09 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OT: SMT solder bridge Greetings, Well...It's confession time. After 2 hours of tentative poking, heating, fluxing, wiping and inspecting it turned out that the "solder bridge" was actually a pad that 2 leads on the chip were supposed to share. That little detail aside, I learned a great deal about SMT soldering and rework. Thanks to everyone who offered guidance. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 02/04/2013 03:44 PM, rayj wrote: > Greetings, > > I was inspecting anew electronic device that wasn't working and found > a solder bridge between 2 of the pins on an SMT chip. > > I'm looking for an easy way to remove it. My plan is to use a hot > needle to touch it and maybe I can sweep or blow it away. I'm open to > suggestions, keeping in mind I have no equipment for working on SMT > components. > > do not archive > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions. > -- > Raymond Julian > Kettle River, MN. > > "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, > and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:49 AM PST US From: "Roger & Jean Curtis" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Li-Ion hazards I looks like "containment" will be part of any aviation design with Li-Ion batteries. Jan de Jong Perhaps a mechanism to jettison the battery when it reaches ignition temperature would work. A better solution IMHO is to not even consider using the Li-Ion battery, at this stage of development. The cons far exceed the pros. Roger _____ .. Do you have a slow PC? Try a free scan! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:20 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: AeroElectric-List: Soldering knowledge source As part of my SMT rework adventure, I was sent a site that has a great deal of infoon soldering. Thanks to Robert Korff for sending it to me, it belongs in the archive. _http://www.solder.net/technical-info/soldering-tip-videos_ -- Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:02 AM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Li-Ion hazards I wouldn't be surprised if the weight/cost of catastrophe management may make the Li based battery systems less attractive from an energy density standpoint. do not archive Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 02/09/2013 01:08 PM, Roger & Jean Curtis wrote: > > > I looks like "containment" will be part of any aviation design with > Li-Ion batteries. > > Jan de Jong > > > Perhaps a mechanism to jettison the battery when it reaches > ignition temperature would work. A better solution IMHO is > to not even consider using the Li-Ion battery, at this stage > of development. The cons far exceed the pros. > > Roger > > > _____ > > . > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try a free scan! > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Li-Ion hazards From: Tim Olson Cool, flaming meteorites falling everywhere for people on the ground to see! Tim On Feb 9, 2013, at 1:08 PM, "Roger & Jean Curtis" wrote: > > > I looks like "containment" will be part of any aviation design with > Li-Ion batteries. > > Jan de Jong > > > Perhaps a mechanism to jettison the battery when it reaches > ignition temperature would work. A better solution IMHO is > to not even consider using the Li-Ion battery, at this stage > of development. The cons far exceed the pros. > > Roger > > > _____ > > . > > Do you have a slow PC? > Try a free scan! > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:46:33 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: AeroElectric-List: SD-20 Alternator / SB1B-14 regulator failure modes - update In my case, it was the drive gear that goes in to the accessory case. There's a rubber thingy inside that was in a bunch of pieces. The safety catch did it's job so the parts didn't float in to the engine. It all came out together - but it was very obvious that the gear wasn't driving. Anyone know if that is replaceable? Looks like it could be - just maybe not by me.....I'll ask the folks @ B & C. Ralph Capen ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:02 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Li-Ion hazards From: Richard Girard Jan, Perhaps it should be treated as Scotty treated the warp core of the Enterprise and eject them when there's trouble. :-} Rick Girard do not archive On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Jan de Jong wrote: > jan_de_jong@casema.nl> > > For those who are really interested a comprehensive treatment of the > dangers of Li-Ion: > http://www.nfpa.org/assets/**files/PDF/Research/** > RFLithiumIonBatteriesHazard.**pdf > > LiFePO4 is a lot less volatile and violent than most of the Li-Ion group. > But it shares unfortunate properties: > - thermal runaway can never be excluded: undetectable internal damage may > exist and trigger at the end of a charging cycle > - the electrolyte is flammable hydrocarbons > > I looks like "containment" will be part of any aviation design with Li-Ion > batteries. > > Jan de Jong > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:36 PM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Li-Ion hazards Maybe airplanes can be equipped with a black hole for garbage disposal (black hole traveling along in a parallel universe). Jan de Jong do not archive On 2/9/2013 9:48 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > Jan, Perhaps it should be treated as Scotty treated the warp core of > the Enterprise and eject them when there's trouble. :-} > > Rick Girard > do not archive > > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Jan de Jong > wrote: > > > > > For those who are really interested a comprehensive treatment of > the dangers of Li-Ion: > http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/Research/RFLithiumIonBatteriesHazard.pdf > > LiFePO4 is a lot less volatile and violent than most of the Li-Ion > group. > But it shares unfortunate properties: > - thermal runaway can never be excluded: undetectable internal > damage may exist and trigger at the end of a charging cycle > - the electrolyte is flammable hydrocarbons > > I looks like "containment" will be part of any aviation design > with Li-Ion batteries. > > Jan de Jong > > > =================================== > -List" > target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > =================================== > http://forums.matronics.com > =================================== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > =================================== > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be > unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > * > > > * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.