---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/05/13: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:12 AM - Re: Re: Infinity stick graphics (Christopher Cee Stone) 2. 08:18 AM - Braided ground strap to battery? (Andy) 3. 08:32 AM - Re: Braided ground strap to battery? (John Tipton) 4. 08:50 AM - Re: Braided ground strap to battery? (Fisher Paul A.) 5. 09:51 AM - Re: Braided ground strap to battery? (R. curtis) 6. 10:56 AM - Re: Braided ground strap to battery? (Fisher Paul A.) 7. 11:18 AM - Re: Braided ground strap to battery? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 02:52 PM - Re: Braided ground strap to battery? (Andy Crabtree) 9. 05:25 PM - RV6A Starter Contacter Problem (Jack Haviland) 10. 06:02 PM - Re: vhf transponder interference (jappie) 11. 06:07 PM - Re: vhf transponder interference (jappie) 12. 07:38 PM - Re: RV6A Starter Contacter Problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Infinity stick graphics From: Christopher Cee Stone Matt... Thanks! I love this list... question asked... problem solved! chris stone RV-8 On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 3:32 PM, Matt Dralle wrote: > > > > At 03:29 PM 3/4/2013 Monday, you wrote: > mrspudandcompany@verizon.net> > > > > > >>I drew that placecard myself in Corel Designer and had it printed at a > local graphics shop. Originally I had it silk screened. > >> > >>Let me see what I've got. I can probably save it in a variety of > different formats. > >> > >>Here's the original entry from my Log: > >> > >> > http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2971&log008&row=38 > > > > > > Matt, > > > > I get this when I try to open: Unable to find a work log with the > specified id or no id was specified. > > > > Roger > > > Sorry, fat-fingered the URL. Here is the correct one: > > > http://www.mattsrv8.com/users/display_log.php?user=MattsRV8&project=638&category=2971&log=166114&row=38 > > Matt > > > - > Matt Dralle > > RV-8 #82880 N998RV "Ruby Vixen" > http://www.mattsrv8.com - Matt's Complete RV-8 Construction Log > http://www.mattsrv8.com/Mishap - Landing Mishap Rebuild Log > http://www.youtube.com/MattsRV8 - Matt's RV-8 HDTV YouTube Channel > Status: 172+ Hours TTSN - Rebuilding Fuselage After Landing Mishap... > > RV-6 #20916 N360EM "The Flyer" > http://www.mattsrv6.com - Matt's RV-6 Revitalization Log > Status: 140+ Hours Since Purchase - Upgrades Complete; Now In Full Flyer > Mode > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:22 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Braided ground strap to battery? From: Andy Might be a stupid question but, I was wondering about the possibility of using a braided ground strap from b and c to go from the battery to the grounding forest of tabs on the firewall. Thanks Andy Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Braided ground strap to battery? From: John Tipton So long as it cannot touch any live (plus volts) contacts - OK, I would think John Sent from my iPad ----x--O--x---- On 5 Mar 2013, at 16:16, Andy wrote: > > > Might be a stupid question but, I was wondering about the possibility of using a braided ground strap from b and c to go from the battery to the grounding forest of tabs on the firewall. > Thanks > Andy > Sent from my iPhone > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:41 AM PST US From: "Fisher Paul A." Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Braided ground strap to battery? That's what I did. Actually I did three straps: - Engine to Battery ground - Engine to forest of tabs on firewall - Battery ground to forest of tabs on firewall So far, no problems in 3.5 years. It's probably more than is really required, but I already had the extra strap and I didn't figure it would hurt. Belt and suspenders I guess... Paul A. Fisher RV-7A N18PF -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andy Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 10:17 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Braided ground strap to battery? Might be a stupid question but, I was wondering about the possibility of using a braided ground strap from b and c to go from the battery to the grounding forest of tabs on the firewall. Thanks Andy Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:15 AM PST US From: "R. curtis" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Braided ground strap to battery? > That's what I did. Actually I did three straps: > - Engine to Battery ground > - Engine to forest of tabs on firewall > - Battery ground to forest of tabs on firewall With multiple ground paths to the battery, from the above configuration, isn't there a chance of introducing ground loops, causing noise problems?? Roger -- Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:56:06 AM PST US From: "Fisher Paul A." Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Braided ground strap to battery? Good question. My thought was that the systems that would be susceptible to noise (all of the audio components) are inside the cabin - nothing forward of the firewall. So for those components there is only one path to the battery. Only the starter and the alternator would have dual paths. Obviously the starter is only used once per flight, so it's not a problem, so that just leaves the alternator. I can't explain the physics of WHY it's not a problem. I can only state that the fact that there ARE no problems! YMMV. - Paul -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R. curtis Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 11:49 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Braided ground strap to battery? --> > That's what I did. Actually I did three straps: > - Engine to Battery ground > - Engine to forest of tabs on firewall > - Battery ground to forest of tabs on firewall With multiple ground paths to the battery, from the above configuration, isn't there a chance of introducing ground loops, causing noise problems?? Roger -- Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Braided ground strap to battery? At 10:16 AM 3/5/2013, you wrote: > > >Might be a stupid question but, I was wondering about the >possibility of using a braided ground strap from b and c to go from >the battery to the grounding forest of tabs on the firewall. The legacy rationale for ground straps of many finely drawn wires was common in vehicles for grounding an engine to the vehicle frame or maintaining electrical continuity across moveable joints in the machine. The engine needed to move around in its mounts but often needed grounding integrity for starter motors and generators/alternators. Electrical connections that are in motion with respect to each other demand a conductor that is exceedingly resistant to flex failure (See explanation of design goals for 19+strand wire on airplanes in the 'Connection). How long a strap are we talking about? Have you considered welding cable for BOTH battery (-) and (+) connections? It's a good thing to reduce the bending moments on battery terminals due to stiff wire. Some builders have experienced battery post failures when short lengths of 2AWG 'aircraft' wire was used to jumper a battery(+) to the contactor. I would recommend that you consider 4AWG welding cable jumpers for both battery connections. Then consider what materials make the most sense for cost, weight, system performance, or wire that your hangar mate donated to the project. A braided strap from fire wall ground to crankcase is a good thing. A welding cable jumper is equally good. I'm aware of no particular advantage for using a fabricated braid-strap to make connections to the battery . . . but it wouldn't hurt anything either. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:09 PM PST US From: Andy Crabtree Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Braided ground strap to battery? Thanks for the replies!=0AI can make the 2 AWG (what I currently have in my shop) work but the service loop is kinda big. I was thinking about having the ground strap made (about 6 inches) by BandC and for the same price as t he welding cable I think the strap would fit nicer. =0A=0A=0A______________ __________________=0AFrom: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" =0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:18 PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Braided ground strap to batt " =0A=0AAt 10:16 AM 3/5/2013, you wrote:=0A> > =0A> Might be a stupid question but, I was wondering about the possibilit y of using a braided ground strap from b and c to go from the battery to th e grounding forest of tabs on the firewall.=0A=0A=0A- The legacy rational e for ground straps of many=0A- finely drawn wires was common in vehicles for=0A- grounding an engine to the vehicle frame or maintaining=0A- el ectrical continuity across moveable joints in=0A- the machine. The- eng ine needed to move around in=0A- its mounts but often needed grounding in tegrity=0A- for starter motors and generators/alternators.=0A- Electric al connections that are in motion with=0A- respect to each other demand a conductor that=0A- is exceedingly resistant to flex failure (See=0A- e xplanation of design goals for 19+strand wire=0A- on airplanes in the 'Co nnection).=0A=0A- How long a strap are we talking about? Have=0A- you c onsidered welding cable for BOTH battery=0A- (-) and (+) connections?- It's a good thing to=0A- reduce the bending moments on battery terminals =0A- due to stiff wire. Some builders have experienced=0A- battery post failures when short lengths of 2AWG=0A- 'aircraft' wire was used to jump er a battery(+)=0A- to the contactor.=0A=0A- I would recommend that you consider 4AWG welding=0A- cable jumpers for both battery connections. Th en=0A- consider what materials make the most sense for=0A- cost, weight , system performance, or wire that your=0A- hangar mate donated to the pr oject.=0A=0A- A braided strap from fire wall ground to crankcase=0A- is a good thing. A welding cable jumper is equally=0A- good. I'm aware of n o particular advantage for=0A- using a fabricated braid-strap to make con nections=0A- to the battery . . . but it wouldn't hurt anything=0A- eit == ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:42 PM PST US From: Jack Haviland Subject: AeroElectric-List: RV6A Starter Contacter Problem Anybody had a problem with Van's Aircraft starter contactor ES 24021? It's reputed to be a Cole Hersee product designed to make and break 750 and 100 amps respectively using a 3-4 ohm coil. The original lasted about 100 hours before failing to provide12 volts to the "output terminal" when the starter switch triggered the internal connection for the high current terminals. This was confirmed by the sound of the moving "slug" and voltage measurements made at the "S" and both "high current" terminals. Hitting it with a hammer would make sometimes make it conduct properly but it eventually failed completely. Drilling out the rivets to inspect the contacts showed a mild discoloration and minimal overlap between the moving and fixed contacts but nothing else. Now the replacement is doing the same thing after about 50 hours. An external diode protects the starter switch contacts. There has never been a problem with the pinion-ring gear engagement or disengagement, so the contactor is wired to the normal stud on the starter motor solenoid and the "jumper wire" was left in place. Any suggestions as to cause &/or solutions? Are there starter contractors that rotate the moving contact to even out wear etc.? Jack H. RV-6A O-320 D1A with the standard Sky Tek ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:51 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: vhf transponder interference From: "jappie" here is my new cable RG-142 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395708#395708 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3030042_web_157.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3030041_web_483.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3030040_web_200.jpg ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:55 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: vhf transponder interference From: "jappie" Here is my new RG-142 cable. pictures are in the wrong order JP Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=395709#395709 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3030042_web_119.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3030041_web_269.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3030040_web_147.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p3030039_web_321.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:50 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RV6A Starter Contacter Problem At 07:23 PM 3/5/2013, you wrote: Anybody had a problem with Van's Aircraft starter contactor ES 24021? It's reputed to be a Cole Hersee product designed to make and break 750 and 100 amps respectively using a 3-4 ohm coil. The original lasted about 100 hours before failing . . . . Now the replacement is doing the same thing after about 50 hours. An external diode protects the starter switch contacts. There has never been a problem with the pinion-ring gear engagement or disengagement, so the contactor is wired to the normal stud on the starter motor solenoid and the "jumper wire" was left in place. Any suggestions as to cause &/or solutions? Are there starter contractors that rotate the moving contact to even out wear etc.? That's a really old legacy design. Haven't really heard of your situation before. Just for grins, it would be interesting to try this style contactor. They're about 40 years 'younger' in design than the beer-barrel contactors. MUCH higher contact pressures. [] [] This form factor is common to several off the shelf contactors you should be able pick up at a local car-parts store. Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.