AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 03/12/13


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:41 AM - Re: Work bench cord clutter solution (racerjerry)
     2. 07:46 AM - Re: 24x7diy LED noise experiment (update) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 08:25 AM - Re: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: Work bench cord clutter solution (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 08:46 AM - Re: Re: Work bench cord clutter solution (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 09:17 AM - Re: contactor not contacting! (Roger & Jean Curtis)
     7. 09:41 AM - Re: 24x7diy LED noise experiment (update) (Holger Selover-Stephan)
     8. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: Work bench cord clutter solution (rayj)
     9. 10:08 AM - Re: contactor not contacting! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    10. 10:27 AM - Re: 24x7diy LED noise experiment (update) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 11:09 AM - Re: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit (B Tomm)
    12. 03:21 PM - Re: Cross feed contactor current (Dan Charrois)
    13. 09:26 PM - Re: 24x7diy LED noise experiment (update) (Holger Selover-Stephan)
    14. 11:23 PM - Re: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit (B Tomm)
    15. 11:52 PM - Help need for Wrapping Machine with Built-In Scale (Maathai Wangari)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:41:20 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Work bench cord clutter solution
    From: "racerjerry" <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    ALTERNATIVE - If you live near a Micro Center store, they sell a nice $22 all-metal black 12 outlet 3 foot long power strip that is also ideal for workbench mounting. This device offers no surge protection; however, I merely power this strip from a high energy surge protector (on floor) for full protection. SKU number is 338525; mfg p/n is 576041. If you dont live near a Micro Center store, their shipping seems reasonable; for me in NY, shipping would be $6. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396082#396082


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:46:04 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: 24x7diy LED noise experiment (update)
    At 10:38 PM 3/11/2013, you wrote: Hi Bob, all, Do you have an update on this project? I tried to follow the thread back to the start, but couldn't quite. Are you testing with these lights: http://24x7diy.com/product_info.php/products_id/94 Are they emitting RF noise? A friend of mine installed lights similar to these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/170941144735?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 He reports no discernible RF noise. I was considering a pair of these for installation into the cowling: Adapting commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) products into alternative environments comes with some risks. Fortunately risks are very low for the LED lighting experiments. One first looks for a source of adequate light output. After finding a suitable candidate, is it easily mounted to the aircraft? Finally, does it produce noise that exceeds limits for your design goals? For some builders, no amount of noise is a big deal, no so for others. The 23x7diy products are nicely packaged, they DO produce a non-quantified level of noise that the builder believed was problematic and there's a nice recess at the rear of the housing conducive to a well considered installation of a filter. The last of the materials I need came in the mail yesterday so I'll proceed with the filter project for these lamps. The fixture you cited will have to go through the same processes. First see if the light output is adequate to your needs. I used to shine a 6v fisherman's lantern around the attendees of my seminars while asking them to consider if the light output was sufficient for night landings. I suggested that I'd be willing to duct-tape it to my J-3's struts and demonstrate adequacy to the task. That was a 3-watt landing light!!! Bottom line is that it takes very little total light to assist you in conducting greasers on the otherwise dark terra firma. Then see if the noise (there is ALWAYS emitted noise) is too much for your situation, If too much, then you go after it as a separate but final issue. Bob . . . Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:25:08 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit
    At 12:29 AM 3/12/2013, you wrote: Bob, I have two 55watt HID for landing lights. I bought the following flasher which failed after a few minutes of run time. See, http://sos-production.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/ETHFSS-SP.pdf I then ordered the heavy duty version, but had the same result. See, http://sos-production.s3.amazonaws.com/images/ETHDSS-SP%20Fold%20A.pdf I now see B and C sells one (which I plan to order) and notice that the wiring diagram (when using LED or HID) has a couple 75 ohm resistors added to the circuit. I don't know what these are for but wonder if they are to protect the solid state flasher. If so, perhaps I should have used something similar with my first product? Can you describe the function of the resistors? Are these truly (H)ight(I)intensity(D)ischarge lamps? In other words, do they come with ballasts to convert the 14v DC to high voltages necessary for their ignition and operation? If so, have they been characterized for performance in a wig-wag system? ALL HID lamps have a 'warm up' period of 30 seconds to a minute after first power wherein their light output increases and stabilizes. They probably should not be flashed during this period of time. After that, it seems that flashing is tolerated well and their operating temperatures stay adequately warm with a 50% duty cycle of operation. If your 'lamps' were killing solid state flashers I suspect inductive reaction from the ballasts produced spikes that exceed voltage ratings on the flasher's output transistors. It's unlikely that the transistors failed due to an over current situation. The fact that they ran for several minutes suggests a "pecking away" at the transistors with a succession of events. A relay flasher like the B&C product would not be vulnerable to this kind of failure. The resistors were added to accommodate the flasher's original design goals to service incandescent lamps. The flasher would not function with LED lamps. HID lamps are a third and entirely different issue. You probably WILL need the resistors. Solid state flashing would be preferred but you'd want to identify root cause for the failures and fix it. The open source flasher we did for leds is fitted with spike suppression on the output transistors. This product might do the job for you. I could send you one to try out. But in any case, I would always operated the lamps at Full-ON for about a minute before reverting to the wig-wag mode. It occurs to me that we could do a HID version of this flasher that automatically forces a one-minute warm up period before allowing wig-wag operations to commence. I'd have to consult my software guru on that. In the mean time, you could conduct the experiment to see if my design goals for the LED/Incandescent technologies are sufficiently robust to handle your HID fixtures. If you want to try the relay-flasher from B&C, DO add the resistors. Actually, I have a couple of HID conversion kits that I tried on my Kia last year and reverted back to incandescent. I'll drag those out and see how they behave on my bench first. Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:31:17 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Work bench cord clutter solution
    At 08:39 AM 3/12/2013, you wrote: > >ALTERNATIVE - If you live near a Micro Center >store, they sell a nice $22 all-metal black 12 >outlet 3 foot long power strip that is also >ideal for workbench mounting. This device >offers no surge protection; however, I merely >power this strip from a high energy surge >protector (on floor) for full protection. SKU >number is 338525; mfg p/n is 576041. If you >dont live near a Micro Center store, their >shipping seems reasonable; for me in NY, shipping would be $6. > >-------- >Jerry King Cool! I have an all-metal long plug strip on one bench that I bought at Big-Lots a couple of years ago for $20. VERY nice find but they never came back to the store. I'll explore your source. Incidentally, that business about 'surge protection' is mostly smoke and mirrors. I'm aware of no products that benefit from such external protections. I've never seen an owner's manual that suggests the customer operate their new acquisition through a surge protected outlet. All modern electronics are fitted with some level of incoming surge protection as a matter of good design practice. That's what keeps the MOVs and Transorbs flowing off the production lines by the millions . . . not for external but internal protection of vulnerable components. Adding it to a plug-strip is like hanging a fox tail on your car's antenna 'cause it makes it look like you're going fast. Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:46:13 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Work bench cord clutter solution
    At 08:39 AM 3/12/2013, you wrote: > >ALTERNATIVE - If you live near a Micro Center store, they sell a >nice $22 all-metal black 12 outlet 3 foot long power strip that is >also ideal for workbench mounting. I ordered one. On-the-doorstep-price after adding shipping and taxes (10%) it came to $30.50. About the same price as the eBay offer but with 12 outlets instead of 9. Better deal. Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:17:32 AM PST US
    From: "Roger & Jean Curtis" <mrspudandcompany@verizon.net>
    Subject: contactor not contacting!
    Based on the facts (1) you can hear it operate whether it connects or not and (2) once connected it stays connected is a strong indicator of a bad contactor. I believe all the Pawnee Plant aircraft went 28v in '78 so your airplane probably has the legacy 12v PMB/Stancore/White-Rogers contactor. Does it look like this? WHITE RODGERS70-902 <http://www.newark.com/productimages/nio/standard/4298109.jpg> If so, you could get a 'test' replacement from Newark for about $25. (Cat# 35M2084 which is a 4-terminal device. You'll have to add your own jumper between coil-hot and BAT terminal)If that 'cures' the problem, you can go for the holy-watered part. If it's some other part, post a picture of it and we can probably identify it's generic roots. I'd like to have your failed part to do a tear down inspection and report to be posted her on the List and archived on the website. Bob, Thanks for the reply. I have a 3 terminal continuous duty 12V contactor that I will put in as soon as the weather cooperates for some outdoor maintenance. Will mail the junk contactor to you as soon as it is liberated. Roger _____ <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> . Do you have a slow PC? <http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> Try a free scan!


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:41:01 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 24x7diy LED noise experiment (update)
    From: Holger Selover-Stephan <holger-d@shadowbrush.com>
    On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:44 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > The last of the > materials I need came in the mail yesterday > so I'll proceed with the filter project for > these lamps. Thank you for your response, and update on your noise filter project. I'll wait to hear from your further findings. No noise would allow leaving the lights on for collision protection. Also, I'm interested in as much light as I can get for an emergency off-field landing and when taxiing around in the dark. Thanks! Holger


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:05:31 AM PST US
    From: rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
    Subject: Re: Work bench cord clutter solution
    My experience with surge protectors on telephone lines has been that the external ones I have used have sacrificed themselves and other items have not been damaged. The events took place during electrical storms. I've never had a similar experience with any 110/220 protectors. Did have a fuse blow in our transformer out front, but that's a different discussion all together. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 03/12/2013 10:30 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > > At 08:39 AM 3/12/2013, you wrote: >> <gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us> >> >> ALTERNATIVE - If you live near a Micro Center store, they sell a nice >> $22 all-metal black 12 outlet 3 foot long power strip that is also >> ideal for workbench mounting. This device offers no surge >> protection; however, I merely power this strip from a high energy >> surge protector (on floor) for full protection. SKU number is >> 338525; mfg p/n is 576041. If you donEUR^(TM)t live near a Micro >> Center store, their shipping seems reasonable; for me in NY, shipping >> would be $6. >> >> -------- >> Jerry King > > Cool! I have an all-metal long plug strip > on one bench that I bought at Big-Lots a > couple of years ago for $20. VERY nice find > but they never came back to the store. > > I'll explore your source. Incidentally, that > business about 'surge protection' is mostly > smoke and mirrors. I'm aware of no products > that benefit from such external protections. > > I've never seen an owner's manual that suggests > the customer operate their new acquisition through > a surge protected outlet. All modern electronics > are fitted with some level of incoming surge > protection as a matter of good design practice. > > That's what keeps the MOVs and Transorbs flowing > off the production lines by the millions . . . > not for external but internal protection of > vulnerable components. Adding it to a plug-strip > is like hanging a fox tail on your car's antenna > 'cause it makes it look like you're going fast. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:08:10 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: contactor not contacting!
    > > >Bob, > > >Thanks for the reply. I have a 3 terminal continuous > >duty 12V contactor that I will put in as soon as the > >weather cooperates for some outdoor maintenance. > > >Will mail the junk contactor to you as soon as it is liberated. > > Great! I'll tear down, photograph, analyse and share . . . Bob . . .


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:27:34 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: 24x7diy LED noise experiment (update)
    At 11:40 AM 3/12/2013, you wrote: ><holger-d@shadowbrush.com> > >On Mar 12, 2013, at 7:44 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > The last of the > > materials I need came in the mail yesterday > > so I'll proceed with the filter project for > > these lamps. > >Thank you for your response, and update on your noise filter >project. I'll wait to hear from your further findings. No noise >would allow leaving the lights on for collision protection. Keep in mind that my work here is on one product based on non-quantified perceptions of noise. The owner of these lights complained about it, I could detect it here and have a plan for attenuating it . . . but just how much noise is created compared to contemporary limits for qualification onto a type certificated aircraft cannot be known without going to the lab. The fact that this particular product produced detectable noise is not a guarantee that (1) contemporary qualification limits will be achieve with my experiments nor (2) does it guarantee that user perceptions of noise will be driven below acceptable limits. Filters are NEVER 100.000% effective. They are attenuators tailored to reduce noise to acceptable levels which is never zero. For example, here's a plot of the noise from a blower motor that was tearing up the ADF on a King Air after I crafted a filter for it. All I had to do was get the noise below the limit line . . . in this case the filter was exceedingly effective. But had my efforts produced a plot that was still trashy out to 30MHz, all I have to do is get below the limit line. [] Until we do similar investigations for our experiments, the best we can expect is: "This experiment reduced noise to the point where the customer doesn't care about what's left over." It may still fail miserably in the DO-160 lab. Just because the original observer is satisfied with the outcome does not mean all future observers will share the perception. >Also, I'm interested in as much light as I can get for an emergency >off-field landing and when taxiing around in the dark. Okay, your design goals call for LOTS of light but in situations that may amount to 0.0001% and 1.0% of total operations respectively. These may be situations wherein noise is the last of your worries. Bob . . .


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:09:18 AM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit
    Thanks for the thoughtful response. Yes my "lamps" are true HID in that they have the ballasts. I have measured the current draw (to the ballast) after the first flasher failed. On a digital multimeter they start at about 7 amp as I recall and settle down at around 5 amp. There may be a spike that my meter doesn't show. The flasher paper work says it is good for 9amp (14 amp for the heavy duty). I have failed one of each now. My procedure was to turn on the lamps in steady state first and then switch to flashing mode after they were very bright (hot). This was about 10-15 seconds or so but definitely not a minute. This was going to be my operating procedure. Land and take off with full steady lights. Flash for enroute cruising. According to the manufacture of the flashers, they are not designed/recommended for HID although the paperwork doesn't specifically say not to use with HID. Some on VAF use the this flasher with 35 watt HID with no reported problems that I have seen. The flashers have multiple flash patterns. Most way too quick for the HID. I was only using the slow wigwag version. 1.9 flashes per second as I recall. The flasher/HID combination did work well in producing a nice flash while it lasted. I like the HID (very bright and lower current draw), and I think flashing is a great anti-collision feature. I'm really wanting a flasher that can take the "abuse" if that is what is causing the failures. This is why I'm interested in the B and C flasher. But when I read the spec, it says it's a solid state flasher. This make me think it may fail in the same way as the others. The resistors were the difference. I'm willing to try whatever you recommend. Bevan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 8:23 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit --> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 12:29 AM 3/12/2013, you wrote: Bob, I have two 55watt HID for landing lights. I bought the following flasher which failed after a few minutes of run time. See, http://sos-production.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/ETHFSS-SP.pdf I then ordered the heavy duty version, but had the same result. See, http://sos-production.s3.amazonaws.com/images/ETHDSS-SP%20Fold%20A.pdf I now see B and C sells one (which I plan to order) and notice that the wiring diagram (when using LED or HID) has a couple 75 ohm resistors added to the circuit. I don't know what these are for but wonder if they are to protect the solid state flasher. If so, perhaps I should have used something similar with my first product? Can you describe the function of the resistors? Are these truly (H)ight(I)intensity(D)ischarge lamps? In other words, do they come with ballasts to convert the 14v DC to high voltages necessary for their ignition and operation? If so, have they been characterized for performance in a wig-wag system? ALL HID lamps have a 'warm up' period of 30 seconds to a minute after first power wherein their light output increases and stabilizes. They probably should not be flashed during this period of time. After that, it seems that flashing is tolerated well and their operating temperatures stay adequately warm with a 50% duty cycle of operation. If your 'lamps' were killing solid state flashers I suspect inductive reaction from the ballasts produced spikes that exceed voltage ratings on the flasher's output transistors. It's unlikely that the transistors failed due to an over current situation. The fact that they ran for several minutes suggests a "pecking away" at the transistors with a succession of events. A relay flasher like the B&C product would not be vulnerable to this kind of failure. The resistors were added to accommodate the flasher's original design goals to service incandescent lamps. The flasher would not function with LED lamps. HID lamps are a third and entirely different issue. You probably WILL need the resistors. Solid state flashing would be preferred but you'd want to identify root cause for the failures and fix it. The open source flasher we did for leds is fitted with spike suppression on the output transistors. This product might do the job for you. I could send you one to try out. But in any case, I would always operated the lamps at Full-ON for about a minute before reverting to the wig-wag mode. It occurs to me that we could do a HID version of this flasher that automatically forces a one-minute warm up period before allowing wig-wag operations to commence. I'd have to consult my software guru on that. In the mean time, you could conduct the experiment to see if my design goals for the LED/Incandescent technologies are sufficiently robust to handle your HID fixtures. If you want to try the relay-flasher from B&C, DO add the resistors. Actually, I have a couple of HID conversion kits that I tried on my Kia last year and reverted back to incandescent. I'll drag those out and see how they behave on my bench first. Bob . . .


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:21:17 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Cross feed contactor current
    From: Dan Charrois <danlist@syz.com>
    Hi Bob, and everyone who respond - thanks for doing so! It's good to see that the charge differential between two batteries isn't enough to generate considerable current when they're connected in parallel. I suspected it might be so, considering how many wiring diagrams I've seen with a cross-feed contactor or equivalently, two battery contactors to the same bus, but it's nice to be able to verify the current response curve (40A peak trailing off quickly) from the experiment you did. It's always good to be able to back up assumptions with real information. > Have you conducted an energy study on your > anticipated operational needs? Certainly > a panel full of electro-whizzies drives notions > of extra-ordinary electrical system demands > but have you worked out the numbers? The reason I was considering Z-14 instead of Z-13/8 was for a few reasons: - I did do a load analysis, but as it was planned, my endurance bus had the potential to be drawing around 10A. I may be able to get that down a bit - I had been assuming "worst case scenario" of intermittent loads being always on, which of course isn't true... and I may have to make more critical decisions on what really is essential vs. just nice to have. I just want to make sure I won't overtaxing an 8 amp backup alternator enroute during a possible diversion due to electrical problems of the primary alternator... Maybe Z-12 might be preferable to Z-14 if the 8 amp isn't enough? - I've heard people sometimes having difficulty starting an IO-540 in cold weather with a PC680. The battery is aft of the baggage compartment, so there are some losses due to the length of the wire run, which don't help matters either. Some put a larger PC925 back there, but I'm already expecting a fairly aft CG as it is, adding oxygen back there as well. So placing a PC680 in the firewall seems like an obvious choice to bring the CG forward, having a much shorter wire run to the starter, and allowing me to connect the two with the cross-feed contactor for more power in starting if needed. - I've also heard of EFISes rebooting during engine start due to the voltage sagging. Since I'm displaying engine information on the EFISes, that doesn't sound like such a good situation. One possibility is to provide backup power to them with something like the TCW Integrated Backup battery (one of the options my EFIS manufacturer, Advanced Flight Systems, recommends). But it did strike me that a more efficient approach might be to use a separate PC680 battery for that purpose, if there was the use for one for other reasons anyway. Of course, that wouldn't work in situations where I have to cross-tie the two batteries for starting, but at least it would help where I didn't. I was planning on making a slight change to Z-14 so the cross-feed isn't closed necessarily automatically for starting. - I'm still trying to decide on an ignition system. I'd like the idea of dual E-mag "P" models (sometimes called P-mags) if they have their 6 cylinder versions available soon. Failing that, I'm still leaning towards electronic ignition of some kind, but if I go that route, I'd like a completely redundant electrical system for each ignition source. For that, Z-14 seems the best choice. Nonetheless, I'll continue to see if I can tweak things so that something like Z-13/8 will work - I agree it's a simplified, lighter, and less expensive design than Z-14, and may even provide better reliability for some types of failures. Thanks for sending the link to the sample load planning Excel files as well - I'm going through them to see if my numbers are obviously out of whack, and to get ideas to see if there is anything I may have missed. Dan -- Syzygy Research & Technology Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada Phone: 780-961-2213


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:26:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 24x7diy LED noise experiment (update)
    From: Holger Selover-Stephan <holger-d@shadowbrush.com>
    On Mar 12, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > Keep in mind that my work here is on one product > based on non-quantified perceptions of noise. > The owner of these lights complained about it, > I could detect it here and have a plan for > attenuating it . . . but just how much noise > is created compared to contemporary limits for > qualification onto a type certificated aircraft > cannot be known without going to the lab. I think my expectations, or I should rather say: hopes, are in line with this. My aircraft is not type certified, and if there's a little noise during short-timed operation, I'll take that over paying several hundred dollars for one of the aviation lights, which might not fare all that much better even. > The fact that this particular product produced > detectable noise is not a guarantee that (1) > contemporary qualification limits will be achieve > with my experiments nor (2) does it guarantee > that user perceptions of noise will be driven > below acceptable limits. > > Filters are NEVER 100.000% effective. > They are attenuators tailored to reduce noise > to acceptable levels which is never zero. Interesting what you say. And I think I follow, aided by a background in science in my gray past, alas in a different field. > Until we do similar investigations for our experiments, > the best we can expect is: "This experiment reduced noise > to the point where the customer doesn't care about what's > left over." It may still fail miserably in the DO-160 > lab. Just because the original observer is satisfied with > the outcome does not mean all future observers will share > the perception. OK, fair enough. My investment is time while waiting for another report from you, and some $150 for the lights. Should I, and maybe others, contribute to expenses of this experiment? Having an off-the-shelf, sub $200 landing light pair should be of interest to a few others as well. And yes, no guarantee for noise levels. >> >> Also, I'm interested in as much light as I can get for an emergency off-field landing and when taxiing around in the dark. > > Okay, your design goals call for LOTS of light > but in situations that may amount to 0.0001% > and 1.0% of total operations respectively. > These may be situations wherein noise is the > last of your worries. Agreed, in the case of an off-field landing and taxiing, noise isn't a great concern. But not so for the always-on flood light, and admittedly, that's a nice-to-have. Thanks, Holger


    Message 14


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    Time: 11:23:00 PM PST US
    From: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
    Subject: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit
    Bob, I had not considered a spike coming back from the input of the ballast. Could flashing the HID's (properly pre-heated or not) damage other electronic equipment onboard the typical aircraft, ie expensive radios and Nav stuff? I would like to try the flasher from B and C. Can you point me to a source for suitable resistors? I look forward to the results of your experimentation with the HIDs. Thanks Bevan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 8:23 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit --> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 12:29 AM 3/12/2013, you wrote: Bob, I have two 55watt HID for landing lights. I bought the following flasher which failed after a few minutes of run time. See, http://sos-production.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/ETHFSS-SP.pdf I then ordered the heavy duty version, but had the same result. See, http://sos-production.s3.amazonaws.com/images/ETHDSS-SP%20Fold%20A.pdf I now see B and C sells one (which I plan to order) and notice that the wiring diagram (when using LED or HID) has a couple 75 ohm resistors added to the circuit. I don't know what these are for but wonder if they are to protect the solid state flasher. If so, perhaps I should have used something similar with my first product? Can you describe the function of the resistors? Are these truly (H)ight(I)intensity(D)ischarge lamps? In other words, do they come with ballasts to convert the 14v DC to high voltages necessary for their ignition and operation? If so, have they been characterized for performance in a wig-wag system? ALL HID lamps have a 'warm up' period of 30 seconds to a minute after first power wherein their light output increases and stabilizes. They probably should not be flashed during this period of time. After that, it seems that flashing is tolerated well and their operating temperatures stay adequately warm with a 50% duty cycle of operation. If your 'lamps' were killing solid state flashers I suspect inductive reaction from the ballasts produced spikes that exceed voltage ratings on the flasher's output transistors. It's unlikely that the transistors failed due to an over current situation. The fact that they ran for several minutes suggests a "pecking away" at the transistors with a succession of events. A relay flasher like the B&C product would not be vulnerable to this kind of failure. The resistors were added to accommodate the flasher's original design goals to service incandescent lamps. The flasher would not function with LED lamps. HID lamps are a third and entirely different issue. You probably WILL need the resistors. Solid state flashing would be preferred but you'd want to identify root cause for the failures and fix it. The open source flasher we did for leds is fitted with spike suppression on the output transistors. This product might do the job for you. I could send you one to try out. But in any case, I would always operated the lamps at Full-ON for about a minute before reverting to the wig-wag mode. It occurs to me that we could do a HID version of this flasher that automatically forces a one-minute warm up period before allowing wig-wag operations to commence. I'd have to consult my software guru on that. In the mean time, you could conduct the experiment to see if my design goals for the LED/Incandescent technologies are sufficiently robust to handle your HID fixtures. If you want to try the relay-flasher from B&C, DO add the resistors. Actually, I have a couple of HID conversion kits that I tried on my Kia last year and reverted back to incandescent. I'll drag those out and see how they behave on my bench first. Bob . . .


    Message 15


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    Time: 11:52:09 PM PST US
    Subject: Help need for Wrapping Machine with Built-In Scale
    From: "Maathai Wangari" <maathaiwangari@ymail.com>
    I'm interested in Wrapping Machine with Built-In Scale. I want to use it to automize my stretch wrapping application. Tell me about load size and capacity of maximum load weight. What is best name of the brand the the location to buy it? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396143#396143




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