---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/17/13: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:26 AM - Re: Ground connection (racerjerry) 2. 07:04 AM - Re: Re: Ground connection (Raymond Lambert) 3. 09:03 AM - Constant RX on a particular frequency (Bill Bradburry) 4. 09:31 AM - Re: Digital Industrial Scales Outlets (Eric M. Jones) 5. 09:41 AM - Re: Constant RX on a particular frequency () 6. 09:59 AM - Re: Constant RX on a particular frequency (Bill Putney) 7. 10:09 AM - Re: Constant RX on a particular frequency (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 11:15 AM - Re: Constant RX on a particular frequency (Bill Hibbing) 9. 11:24 AM - radio noise (Gordon or Marge) 10. 12:33 PM - radio noise (Gordon or Marge) 11. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Digital Industrial Scales Outlets (Henador Titzoff) 12. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: Ground connection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 01:39 PM - Re: Constant RX on a particular frequency (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 01:57 PM - Re: radio noise (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 04:40 PM - Re: radio noise (Gordon or Marge) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:15 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground connection From: "racerjerry" If you are gonna splice and solder, you MUST have a good mechanical connection; otherwise vibration can easily cause separation. A solid mechanical connection is usually achieved by wrapping a couple of turns of the branch wire around the main cable. The only problem with this method is that, especially for heavy cables, you now have a branch wire that wants to exit at 90 degrees. If you need the cables parallel, which is usually the case, I have had success achieving a good mechanical connection by using copper strands stripped from flexible building wire to wrap and tie several turns around both cables after very lightly tinning both cables before the final soldering. BTW, split bolts work great to give a bulletproof mechanical connection; although as Bob says, somewhat bulky. One thing I would caution about split bolts If you EVER need to splice in aluminum wire; and especially when splicing aluminum to copper, make sure that you use the plated variety (not bare copper) of split bolt, along with some anti-oxidant compound. Please dont ask me how I know. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396405#396405 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:09 AM PST US From: Raymond Lambert Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground connection On 3/17/2013 9:24 AM, racerjerry wrote: > > If you are gonna splice and solder, you MUST have a good mechanical connection; otherwise vibration can easily cause separation. A solid mechanical connection is usually achieved by wrapping a couple of turns of the branch wire around the main cable. The only problem with this method is that, especially for heavy cables, you now have a branch wire that wants to exit at 90 degrees. If you need the cables parallel, which is usually the case, I have had success achieving a good mechanical connection by using copper strands stripped from flexible building wire to wrap and tie several turns around both cables after very lightly tinning both cables before the final soldering. > > BTW, split bolts work great to give a bulletproof mechanical connection; although as Bob says, somewhat bulky. One thing I would caution about split bolts If you EVER need to splice in aluminum wire; and especially when splicing aluminum to copper, make sure that you use the plated variety (not bare copper) of split bolt, along with some anti-oxidant compound. Please dont ask me how I know. > > -------- > Jerry King > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396405#396405 > > Thank you guys, I will try something that I found in AeroElectric_Connection_E-Book chapter 09, page 9-7, figure 9-5. Thanks again Ray > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:11 AM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Constant RX on a particular frequency What are the probable causes if you are getting a constant loud SHHHHHHHHHH on a particular frequency and the radio is showing an RX? I can faintly make out a voice over the hiss from time to time, but I can not make out what is being said. Is this a stuck mike? Would breaking squelch cause this? I am trying to determine if this is caused by my radio or the transmitting radio. Also during this time, one other aircraft made a broadcast and it came in loud and clear and stopped the hiss while he was transmitting. This is happening with the approach freq at my home airport. This has been going on for some time now. If I switch to the tower freq the problem resolves. The approach transmitter might be 15-20 miles further out. Yesterday, I mentioned the hiss to approach and she did something that made it better, then asked me if it helped. Does anybody know what might be going on here? Bill ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:52 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Digital Industrial Scales Outlets From: "Eric M. Jones" Try these guys: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=digital+industrial+weighing+scales -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396412#396412 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:31 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Constant RX on a particular frequency Radio, antenna specs? Is this something new, or has it always done that? Have you changed the squelch settings? From: Bill Bradburry Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 11:01 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Constant RX on a particular frequency What are the probable causes if you are getting a constant loud SHHHHHHHHHH on a particular frequency and the radio is showing an RX? I can faintly make out a voice over the hiss from time to time, but I can not make out what is being said. Is this a stuck mike? Would breaking squelch cause this? I am trying to determine if this is caused by my radio or the transmitting radio. Also during this time, one other aircraft made a broadcast and it came in loud and clear and stopped the hiss while he was transmitting. This is happening with the approach freq at my home airport. This has been going on for some time now. If I switch to the tower freq the problem resolves. The approach transmitter might be 15-20 miles further out. Yesterday, I mentioned the hiss to approach and she did something that made it better, then asked me if it helped. Does anybody know what might be going on here? Bill ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:07 AM PST US From: Bill Putney Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Constant RX on a particular frequency No hints for us? Did she say what she did? The constant SHHHHHH is the squelch set too loose or a very weak signal on that channel. This could be local noise (computer, laptop, PDA, electronic instruments all make a little RF noise) in your airplane of a mix of frequencies that makes a weak signal on that channel. Adjusting the squelch setting higher will fix the problem. If it's a not so weak signal, adjusting the squelch to get rid of annoying signal may mean that you may not hear a call from a controller when you're right at the outer edge of coverage. It's a balance. The squelch should be adjusted so that signals that are useable (ones you could make out what is being said) are let through and noise and signals that are distant or weak and just a distraction (i.e. others using the CTAF channel your local airport at another airport) are suppressed. Bill On 3/17/13 9:01 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: > > What are the probable causes if you are getting a constant loud > SHHHHHHHHHH on a particular frequency and the radio is showing an RX? > I can faintly make out a voice over the hiss from time to time, but I > can not make out what is being said. Is this a stuck mike? Would > breaking squelch cause this? I am trying to determine if this is > caused by my radio or the transmitting radio. Also during this time, > one other aircraft made a broadcast and it came in loud and clear and > stopped the hiss while he was transmitting. > > This is happening with the approach freq at my home airport. This has > been going on for some time now. If I switch to the tower freq the > problem resolves. The approach transmitter might be 15-20 miles > further out. Yesterday, I mentioned the hiss to approach and she did > something that made it better, then asked me if it helped. > > Does anybody know what might be going on here? > > Bill > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:36 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Constant RX on a particular frequency At 11:01 AM 3/17/2013, you wrote: >What are the probable causes if you are getting a constant loud >SHHHHHHHHHH on a particular frequency and the radio is showing an >RX? I can faintly make out a voice over the hiss from time to time, >but I can not make out what is being said. Is this a stuck >mike? Would breaking squelch cause this? I am trying to determine >if this is caused by my radio or the transmitting radio. Also >during this time, one other aircraft made a broadcast and it came in >loud and clear and stopped the hiss while he was transmitting. > >This is happening with the approach freq at my home airport. This >has been going on for some time now. If I switch to the tower freq >the problem resolves. The approach transmitter might be 15-20 miles >further out. Yesterday, I mentioned the hiss to approach and she >did something that made it better, then asked me if it helped. > >Does anybody know what might be going on here? The potential sources for this phenomenon are endless . . . but if folks on the ground can do something that has an effect, then it sounds like (1) they have some notion as to what is happening even (2) if they don't know why it happens. If the mystery signal is easily overpowered by a transmission from an source with no mystery attached suggests that it's not something that is happening by design. A weak-signal anomaly. ATC facilities tend to co-locate their assets. There's a couple of sites west and SW of the ICT that feature an equipment building surrounded by a quad of towers. Emacs! Each tower mounts LOTS of antennas with each antenna intended to service one radio in a shared RF environement with lots of other radios. Unfortunately, this environment is akin to an orchestra of a few dozen instruments on which each user is playing their own tune. Emacs! Back in my two-way radio days we used to call sites like this "intermod city" referring to the difficulties of co-locating many radios. The signals from two talking radios could 'mix' in adjacent, overloaded receiver circuits to product poor behavior in the offended radio and in rare cases, RERADIATE products of that attack with sufficient strength to be heard by a sensitive receiver some distance away. When your observations mentioned involvement of ATC facilities the first image that popped to mind was an un-mitigated intermod situation on the ground . . . one that the controllers have been made aware of and are able to react in some manner that makes it go away even if they cannot fix it. Conversely, it may be a condition that's on a list of squawks waiting for the techno-wienies to come out and fix it. Just a guess . . . Bob . . . > >Bill > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:15:43 AM PST US From: "Bill Hibbing" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Constant RX on a particular frequency Here's a very remote possibility if the freq you're hearing this on is 134. 825 or higher. That freq is the 5th harmonic of channel 1 on the citizens band and it would go up for each channel. Once I heard this happen on a ce nter freq while flying at 35,000 and I forget which CB channel it was but h e was 5x5. Of course it drove everybody on the freq nuts because we couldn 't talk to the guy but we soon flew out of it. It could be that a CBer has a radio on with a stuck mike and doesn't know it. If the freq you're hear ing this on is lower then you can discount this possibility. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 12:04 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Constant RX on a particular frequency At 11:01 AM 3/17/2013, you wrote: What are the probable causes if you are getting a constant loud SHHHHHH HHHH on a particular frequency and the radio is showing an RX? I can faint ly make out a voice over the hiss from time to time, but I can not make out what is being said. Is this a stuck mike? Would breaking squelch cause t his? I am trying to determine if this is caused by my radio or the transmi tting radio. Also during this time, one other aircraft made a broadcast an d it came in loud and clear and stopped the hiss while he was transmitting. This is happening with the approach freq at my home airport. This has been going on for some time now. If I switch to the tower freq the problem resolves. The approach transmitter might be 15-20 miles further out. Yes terday, I mentioned the hiss to approach and she did something that made it better, then asked me if it helped. Does anybody know what might be going on here? ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:42 AM PST US From: "Gordon or Marge" Subject: AeroElectric-List: radio noise Bob, et al: Been a long time since I posted to any list but this time I have a question. My RV-4 com radio when neither transmitting nor receiving presents noise to the headsets that is unacceptable. An incoming signal of reasonable strength comes through clearly and the transmit has been ok, but one pilot described my signal as weak. The radio is a Walter Dittel FSG71 and has been checked by Peninsula Avionics and found to be ok, or at least not found to be defective. The tech type that worked on it suggested checking the antenna for good base contact with the metal skin. I removed the antenna thinking that there might be corrosion (20 years in service) and found the faying surfaces to be coated with oil but with bright metal on both sides. I have been through all the connections and find no anomalies. Headset jacks are insulated with clean contacts. The Sigtronics intercom is wired through the radio and when the radio is turned off, works fine. Questions: Would the presense of oil compromise the antenna performance and if so, would dielectric grease serve to improve it? Is there a failure mode for the antenna itself that could result in the above symptoms and how could one tell? Thank you very much. We should talk some time. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:11 PM PST US From: "Gordon or Marge" Subject: AeroElectric-List: radio noise Bob, et al: Been a long time since I posted to any list but this time I have a question. My RV-4 com radio when neither transmitting nor receiving presents noise to the headsets that is unacceptable. An incoming signal of reasonable strength comes through clearly and the transmit has been ok, but one pilot described my signal as weak. The radio is a Walter Dittel FSG71 and has been checked by Peninsula Avionics and found to be ok, or at least not found to be defective. The tech type that worked on it suggested checking the antenna for good base contact with the metal skin. I removed the antenna thinking that there might be corrosion (20 years in service) and found the faying surfaces to be coated with oil but with bright metal on both sides. I have been through all the connections and find no anomalies. Headset jacks are insulated with clean contacts. The Sigtronics intercom is wired through the radio and when the radio is turned off, works fine. Questions: Would the presense of oil compromise the antenna performance and if so, would dielectric grease serve to improve it? Is there a failure mode for the antenna itself that could result in the above symptoms and how could one tell? Thank you very much. We should talk some time. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:25 PM PST US From: Henador Titzoff Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Digital Industrial Scales Outlets Eric, this is killer!=0A=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A__________________ ______________=0A From: Eric M. Jones =0ATo: aeroelect ric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 12:31 PM=0ASubject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Digital Industrial Scales Outlets=0A =0A--> AeroElec tric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" =0A=0ATry these guys:=0A=0Ahttp://lmgtfy.com/?q=digital+industrial+weighing+scales =0A=0A--------=0AEric M. Jones=0Awww.PerihelionDesign.com=0A113 Brentwood D rive=0ASouthbridge, MA 01550=0A(508) 764-2072=0Aemjones(at)charter.net=0A =0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/v =========== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:26 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground connection Thank you guys, I will try something that I found in AeroElectric_Connection_E-Book chapter 09, page 9-7, figure 9-5. Not sure this is applicable to your task. I think the design goal is to make a reliable electrical connection to a ground where you've decided that you don't want to 'break into' the wire. You don't have big mechanical issues here. This isn't a span of wire between poles and exposed to the weather. I think I would bare a short run of strands in the main wire, say 1" and lay one or more strands of your new branch conductors along side. Then harvest a couple fine strands of wire, several inches from a piece of scrap. Use these strands to bind the branch wires to the main wire, then solder and wrap with silicone rubber tape (self bonding without adhesive). This should produce an electrically reliable connection with more than adequate mechanical characteristics. Here's another case where individual strands from the wire's lay-up are pressed into service as an aid to fixturing the principal conductors while the joint is being soldered. http://tinyurl.com/c5v2xvm Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:51 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Constant RX on a particular frequency At 01:14 PM 3/17/2013, you wrote: >Here's a very remote possibility if the freq you're hearing this on >is 134.825 or higher. That freq is the 5th harmonic of channel 1 on >the citizens band and it would go up for each channel. Once I heard >this happen on a center freq while flying at 35,000 and I forget >which CB channel it was but he was 5x5. Of course it drove >everybody on the freq nuts because we couldn't talk to the guy but >we soon flew out of it. It could be that a CBer has a radio on with >a stuck mike and doesn't know it. If the freq you're hearing this >on is lower then you can discount this possibility. I wouldn't think that the ATC person would have been able to 'make it better' but your hypothesis for a potential interference source is sound. While living in Wichita, I would occasionally hear a cb'er yakking it up for just a few seconds as he drove along a main street about 75 yards south of my house. His transmitter was getting into the audio system in my workshop. I think I know who it was at least by sight of the vehicle. On several occasions I saw a white van in the local parking lots that sported a very hefty, center loaded antenna right in the middle of the roof. The van didn't carry ham tags and the antenna was not a multi-band HF device. My assumption is that he had a really big-dog linear amplifier on his CB transceiver. Those products are not only STRONG on their fundamental operating frequency, they can be rich in harmonic content as well. Since they're illegal devices, the folks who sell them are not strongly disposed to control spurious emissions. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:23 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: radio noise >At 01:24 PM 3/17/2013, you wrote: >Bob, et al: >Been a long time since I posted to any list but this time I have a question. It HAS been a long time my friend. Hope you and Marge are both well . . . > My RV-4 com radio when neither transmitting nor receiving > presents noise to the headsets that is unacceptable. An incoming > signal of reasonable strength comes through clearly and the > transmit has been ok, but one pilot described my signal as > weak. The radio is a Walter Dittel FSG71 and has been checked by > Peninsula Avionics and found to be ok, or at least not found to be > defective. The tech type that worked on it suggested checking the > antenna for good base contact with the metal skin. I removed the > antenna thinking that there might be corrosion (20 years in > service) and found the faying surfaces to be coated with oil but > with bright metal on both sides. I have been through all the > connections and find no anomalies. Headset jacks are insulated > with clean contacts. The Sigtronics intercom is wired through the > radio and when the radio is turned off, works fine. > >Questions: Would the presense of oil compromise the antenna >performance and if so, would dielectric grease serve to improve it? Probably not if the screws were tight. >Is there a failure mode for the antenna itself that could result in >the above symptoms and how could one tell? Probably not for the antenna but certainly for the coax. Connectors on both ends are solidly attached? Do you have access to an SWR meter? Do I interpret your words to mean that only one pilot has complained about your signals being 'weak'? Listener interpretation of signal quality is an iffy sort of thing. Somebody with a rich history in radio communications, particularly AM would have an 'ear' for various quality issues which go to modulation depth, distortions, and overall signal strength. In other words have a grey bearded ham listen to your signal on a hand held from a mile or so away. Also, take the first opportunity in a unicom environment to ask several other pilots how your signals sound in relation to others in the same conversation. The single, isolated signal report may not be terribly reliable. > >Thank you very much. >We should talk some time. Let's do that. I think I've still got your mobile number in my phone from our last meeting at OSH . . . I think that was 2007. Does your number still end in 6966? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:00 PM PST US From: "Gordon or Marge" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: radio noise -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2013 4:50 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: radio noise --> >At 01:24 PM 3/17/2013, you wrote: >Bob, >Been a long time since I posted to any list but this time I have a >question. It HAS been a long time my friend. Hope you and Marge are both well . . . >Questions: Would the presense of oil compromise the antenna >performance and if so, would dielectric grease serve to improve it? Probably not if the screws were tight. >Is there a failure mode for the antenna itself that could result in >the above symptoms and how could one tell? Probably not for the antenna but certainly for the coax. Connectors on both ends are solidly attached? Do you have access to an SWR meter? Do I interpret your words to mean that only one pilot has complained about your signals being 'weak'? Listener interpretation of signal quality is an iffy sort of thing. Somebody with a rich history in radio communications, particularly AM would have an 'ear' for various quality issues which go to modulation depth, distortions, and overall signal strength. In other words have a grey bearded ham listen to your signal on a hand held from a mile or so away. Also, take the first opportunity in a unicom environment to ask several other pilots how your signals sound in relation to others in the same conversation. The single, isolated signal report may not be terribly reliable. > >Thank you very much. >We should talk some time. Let's do that. I think I've still got your mobile number in my phone from our last meeting at OSH . . . I think that was 2007. Does your number still end in 6966? Bob . . . Bob: Thank you for your concern about our health. We are well. Renewed my 3rd class last Sept but have not been flying much. Aim to change that if spring ever gets here. The RV-8 (N228GM)is complete but not yet finished. Have had a fun time with instrumentation. I finally had to get the Grand Rapids (EIS) people to talk to the Precision people to learn that I had to use 12v thru a pull up resister instead of 5v because my instrument is not sensitive enough for the 5. I've made the change but not yet tested it to see if I finally have a tach indication. I've also been learning about batteries. I will examine the antenna lead and reinstall the antenna. You are correct that only one (pilot)had reported a weak signal. That one we will take under advisement and your suggestion to do a specific com test sounds good and we will do it. Don't have a SWR meter and I'd have to learn how to use one if I had. My cell number is 517 206 5418. Look forward to talking to you. 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