Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:17 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: Wires in wing (rayj)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Sacha)
4. 06:28 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (rayj)
5. 06:52 AM - Contactor clicks but doesn't make electrical contact (Roger & Jean)
6. 07:11 AM - Re: Bazooka Dipole Antenna (user9253)
7. 07:31 AM - Re: Wires in wing (Werner Schneider)
8. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: Bazooka Dipole Antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 07:44 AM - Re: Contactor clicks but doesn't make electrical contact (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 07:50 AM - Re: Wires in wing (CHARLES T BECKER)
11. 07:56 AM - Re: Wires in wing (rayj)
12. 08:38 AM - Re: Wires in wing (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 08:48 AM - Re: Wires in wing (Harley)
14. 08:48 AM - Re: Wires in wing (Werner Schneider)
15. 08:57 AM - Re: Bazooka Dipole Antenna (user9253)
16. 09:38 AM - Re: Wires in wing (Jeff Luckey)
17. 10:23 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Ken)
18. 11:04 AM - Re: Wires in wing (rayj)
19. 11:08 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (rayj)
20. 11:52 AM - Re: Wires in wing (Jay Hyde)
21. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: Bazooka Dipole Antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 12:40 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 12:46 PM - Re: Wires in wing (DeWitt Whittington)
24. 02:23 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (rayj)
25. 02:30 PM - Re: Wires in wing (rayj)
26. 02:57 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Jared Yates)
27. 03:10 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Harley)
28. 04:32 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (rayj)
29. 04:51 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Jared Yates)
30. 05:08 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Ben Haas)
31. 05:23 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 05:38 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Paul Thomson)
33. 05:51 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (rayj)
34. 07:53 PM - Re: Wires in wing (Gordon or Marge)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
At 05:36 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
>The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I
>think I'll just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking
>nylocknut-washer-sheetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head.
Hmmmm . . . the fuel level sender is a unusual case . . .
very low current flow. The rules of thumb for bonding
to the airframe are based on design goals for (1) minimizing
voltage drop at current and (2) maintaining joint integrity
with effects of age. The rivet would probably work for this
application but the screw and nut are never wrong.
> Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?
No
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
Holger,
That's something I'm considering. My concern is having the wires laying
on the edges of the lightening holes. Did you runthe line through adel
clamps, or anything?
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/24/2013 06:55 PM, Holger Selover-Stephan wrote:
> When I installed wing tip lines I had some fun time running the wires
> from the root to the tip. But I left a fishing line in the wings that
> will make future wire installation much easier. Just another thought
> on this topic...
>
> Holger
>
> On Mar 24, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Sacha wrote:
>
>> Raymond,
>> I use Star Company's strobe unit and it has 4 wires for each wing.
>> Here's the manual,
>> http://www.starcompany.it/Manuali/STROBE%20LIGHT%20THREE%20FLASH%20-%20USA%20STAR.pdf
>>
>> Regards
>> Sacha
> *
>
>
> *
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
If you go the rivet way, a stainless steel one would probably be the way to g
o.
On Mar 25, 2013, at 2:16, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectr
ic.com> wrote:
> At 05:36 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
>> The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I think I'l
l just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking nylocknut-washer-s
heetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head.
>
> Hmmmm . . . the fuel level sender is a unusual case . . .
> very low current flow. The rules of thumb for bonding
> to the airframe are based on design goals for (1) minimizing
> voltage drop at current and (2) maintaining joint integrity
> with effects of age. The rivet would probably work for this
> application but the screw and nut are never wrong.
>
>> Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?
>
> No
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Thanks.
donot archive
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/24/2013 08:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 05:36 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
>> The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I think
>> I'll just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking
>> nylocknut-washer-sheetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head.
>
> Hmmmm . . . the fuel level sender is a unusual case . . .
> very low current flow. The rules of thumb for bonding
> to the airframe are based on design goals for (1) minimizing
> voltage drop at current and (2) maintaining joint integrity
> with effects of age. The rivet would probably work for this
> application but the screw and nut are never wrong.
>
>> Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?
>
> No
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 5
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Subject: | Contactor clicks but doesn't make electrical contact |
Bob,
Re: the contactor that we were discussing a week or two ago. I believe that
it is the original assembly in a C177B.
I removed it yesterday and replaced with a 3 terminal, same as was
originally installed, unit and it works perfectly.
The junk item went in the mail this AM, so you should have it in a cauple of
days. It will be interesting to find out what you observe as the failure
when you tear it down.
Thanks for what you do!
Roger
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Bazooka Dipole Antenna |
Thanks for the reply, Bob.
I thought the same as you, that the electrons would oscillate in foil just as easily
as in braid. So I tried to use some foil and braid wrapped RG-6/U for greater
bandwidth. But it was very difficult to remove the foil. It was glued
to the foam insulation surrounding the center conductor. So I gave up using
the RG-6/U and used RG-58 instead.
I think using the Bazooka Dipole Antenna would be an option in a non-conductive
fuselage like wood or fiberglass. The antenna could be glued to the fuselage
skin so that the ends of the antenna are vertical.
The claims of improved bandwidth and performance may be unfounded. But I like
it that no balun is required, unlike some other dipole antennas.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396986#396986
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
Raymond, I did fabricate L shaped holders going through the lightening
hole, with a cut left and right to add a tie wrap to hold the cables on
the L. Similar things in plastic are available as well.
I can provide a picture probably from my archive somewhere.
cheers Werner
On 25.03.2013 14:23, rayj wrote:
> Holger,
>
> My concern is having the wires laying
> on the edges of the lightening holes.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Bazooka Dipole Antenna |
> I think using the Bazooka Dipole Antenna would be an option in a
> non-conductive fuselage like wood or fiberglass. The antenna could
> be glued to the fuselage skin so that the ends of the antenna are vertical.
Keep in mind that it's the high current conductors
of the antenna that do the radiation. These happen
at the center. It's the portions around the feed line
connection that need to be 'most vertical' . . .the
ends can wrap around the fuselage.
> The claims of improved bandwidth and performance may be
> unfounded. But I like it that no balun is required, unlike some
> other dipole antennas.
That's the really phoney feature of this article.
The antenna is obviously a form of dipole which is
a balanced antenna . . . simply attaching a coax
feeder to the center as depicted produces the same
conflict as for any dipole.
In terms of measurable performance, doing the
balanced to unbalanced mambo isn't all that
big a deal. For a plastic/wood airplane, you
might consider 1" wide copper foil tape stuck
to the inside surface of the fuselage. See
the foil antenna series of pictures at:
http://tinyurl.com/btbu4cm
The elements for VHF comm would start at
22+ inches each and then get trimmed for
lowest SWR at 126Mhz. The width of the
foil goes to bandwidth.
As suggested before, orientation in the
aircraft should have as much of the center
vertical with the ends wrapping around
the upper and lower surfaced of the
fuselage.
Bob Archer's SA-006 antenna is one example
of a physically shortened design with an
unbalanced feed point.
http://media.chiefaircraft.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/im
If you're inclined to experimentation, you
could do some more work on the bench with
a design that makes a bit more sense than
the 'bazooka' dipole.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Contactor clicks but doesn't make electrical |
contact
>The junk item went in the mail this AM, so you should have it in a
>cauple of days. It will be interesting to find out what you observe
>as the failure when you tear it down.
Great!
>Thanks for what you do!
You're most welcome sir.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
Secure a length of 1/2-3/4 in thinwall plastic conduit
from the aviation department at Lowes/Home Depot in the
wing with wire ties. I did mine after we had closed the
wing. The smooth surface makes fishing wire super easy.
On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 16:55:53 -0700
Holger Selover-Stephan <holger-d@shadowbrush.com> wrote:
> When I installed wing tip lines I had some fun time
>running the wires from the root to the tip. But I left a
>fishing line in the wings that will make future wire
>installation much easier. Just another thought on this
>topic...
>
> Holger
>
> On Mar 24, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Sacha wrote:
>
>> Raymond,
>> I use Star Company's strobe unit and it has 4 wires for
>>each wing. Here's the manual,
>> http://www.starcompany.it/Manuali/STROBE%20LIGHT%20THREE%20FLASH%20-%20USA%20STAR.pdf
>> Regards
>> Sacha
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a closed wing.
Right now I'm leaning toward installing adel clamps with a piece of
lacing cord strung through them. I think a 1/2 inch cushioned clamp
should be large enough.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 09:30 AM, Werner Schneider wrote:
> <glastar@gmx.net>
>
> Raymond, I did fabricate L shaped holders going through the lightening
> hole, with a cut left and right to add a tie wrap to hold the cables
> on the L. Similar things in plastic are available as well.
>
> I can provide a picture probably from my archive somewhere.
>
> cheers Werner
>
> On 25.03.2013 14:23, rayj wrote:
>> Holger,
>>
>> My concern is having the wires laying
>> on the edges of the lightening holes.
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
At 09:55 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a closed
>wing. Right now I'm leaning toward installing adel clamps with a
>piece of lacing cord strung through them. I think a 1/2 inch
>cushioned clamp should be large enough.
Consider a plastic conduit in Adel clamps. The hardware stores
stock a variety of water pipe in sizes down to 3/8". I think you'll
find that the 3/8 is large enough to accept your wires . . . it's
easy to test at the store . . . otherwise go up to 1/2". Here'a
one example of many.
http://tinyurl.com/cccad2q
The stuff is light, cheap, smooth wall and 100% assurance for ease
of installing wires at a later date.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
On 3/25/2013 11:36 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> I think you'll find that the 3/8 is large enough to accept your
> wires
> The stuff is light, cheap, smooth wall and 100% assurance for
> ease
> of installing wires at a later date.
I used a length of that tubing to PUSH the antenna and nav/strobe
light wires through the wing hole in my Long EZ. Taped the wires
to the end of the tubing, then pushed the tubing through.
Removed the tubing when done, leaving the wires inside the
original foam tunnel with no tubing around it. Don't want that
extra weight in there! Clamped the wires where they exited the
tunnel to hold them in place...don't really care what they do
inside the foam tunnel.
Harley Dixon
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
Sorry,
I did not get it you had a closed wing, I did these before closing the wing.
On 25.03.2013 15:55, rayj wrote:
> I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a closed wing.
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Bazooka Dipole Antenna |
Bob,
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Sometimes I believe what I read on the internet
even though I should not.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397003#397003
Message 16
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Bob,
I considered using plastic/PVC plumbing tubing/pipe for the conduit in the
wing of my RV-7A but rejected it based on the idea that combustion
bi-products from those materials could be lethal. In the event of a fire, I
might be rendered unconscious (or worse) before I even got a chance to fight
the fire.
Therefore I opted for some thin-wall aluminum tube. I'm curious about what
other "listers" think.
-Jeff
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 07:36
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
At 09:55 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a closed wing. Right
now I'm leaning toward installing adel clamps with a piece of lacing cord
strung through them. I think a 1/2 inch cushioned clamp should be large
enough.
Consider a plastic conduit in Adel clamps. The hardware stores
stock a variety of water pipe in sizes down to 3/8". I think you'll
find that the 3/8 is large enough to accept your wires . . . it's
easy to test at the store . . . otherwise go up to 1/2". Here'a
one example of many.
http://tinyurl.com/cccad2q
The stuff is light, cheap, smooth wall and 100% assurance for ease
of installing wires at a later date.
Bob . . .
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
No doubt a rivet would work for awhile but considering that I often use
various 1/8" pulled rivets as a movable pivot for things like
specialized bolt holding pliers, I really don't think they have much
residual axial tension after pulling. Put one rivet through two pieces
of scrap aluminum and you will see what I mean. Corrosion-x "oil" always
seems to seep out around these rivets even when applied after painting
and even if the rivet was inserted wet with epoxy primer. Doesn't seem
likely to be gas tight to me.
Ken
On 24/03/2013 9:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 05:36 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
>> The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I think
>> I'll just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking
>> nylocknut-washer-sheetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head.
>
> Hmmmm . . . the fuel level sender is a unusual case . . .
> very low current flow. The rules of thumb for bonding
> to the airframe are based on design goals for (1) minimizing
> voltage drop at current and (2) maintaining joint integrity
> with effects of age. The rivet would probably work for this
> application but the screw and nut are never wrong.
>
>> Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?
>
> No
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
Jeff,
That is my 1st choice. Where did you get your thin wall aluminum. I've
not been able to find anything that was the right combination of weight,
stiffness/straightness, cost and diameter. Something like lawn
furniture tubing only smallerdia.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 12:36 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> I considered using plastic/PVC plumbing tubing/pipe for the conduit in
> the wing of my RV-7A but rejected it based on the idea that combustion
> bi-products from those materials could be lethal. In the event of a
> fire, I might be rendered unconscious (or worse) before I even got a
> chance to fight the fire.
>
> Therefore I opted for some thin-wall aluminum tube. I'm curious about
> what other "listers" think.
>
> -Jeff
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> *Sent:* Monday, March 25, 2013 07:36
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
>
> At 09:55 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>
> I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a closed wing.
> Right now I'm leaning toward installing adel clamps with a piece of
> lacing cord strung through them. I think a 1/2 inch cushioned clamp
> should be large enough.
>
>
> Consider a plastic conduit in Adel clamps. The hardware stores
> stock a variety of water pipe in sizes down to 3/8". I think you'll
> find that the 3/8 is large enough to accept your wires . . . it's
> easy to test at the store . . . otherwise go up to 1/2". Here'a
> one example of many.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cccad2q
>
> The stuff is light, cheap, smooth wall and 100% assurance for ease
> of installing wires at a later date.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> * *
> * *
> **
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
> **
> **
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
> **
> **
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
> * *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> 03/23/13
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10
(an2?)"blessed"fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source.
An3 seems like overkill for a grounding wire.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 12:22 PM, Ken wrote:
>
> No doubt a rivet would work for awhile but considering that I often
> use various 1/8" pulled rivets as a movable pivot for things like
> specialized bolt holding pliers, I really don't think they have much
> residual axial tension after pulling. Put one rivet through two pieces
> of scrap aluminum and you will see what I mean. Corrosion-x "oil"
> always seems to seep out around these rivets even when applied after
> painting and even if the rivet was inserted wet with epoxy primer.
> Doesn't seem likely to be gas tight to me.
> Ken
>
> On 24/03/2013 9:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> At 05:36 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
>>> The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I think
>>> I'll just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking
>>> nylocknut-washer-sheetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head.
>>
>> Hmmmm . . . the fuel level sender is a unusual case . . .
>> very low current flow. The rules of thumb for bonding
>> to the airframe are based on design goals for (1) minimizing
>> voltage drop at current and (2) maintaining joint integrity
>> with effects of age. The rivet would probably work for this
>> application but the screw and nut are never wrong.
>>
>>> Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?
>>
>> No
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>
>
Message 20
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If you were talking about wiring in your cockpit or fuselage I'd agree; but
if you have a fire in your wing I think that gasses are going to be one of
your smaller worries.. J
Johannnesburg Jay
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Luckey
Sent: 25 March 2013 07:37 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
Bob,
I considered using plastic/PVC plumbing tubing/pipe for the conduit in the
wing of my RV-7A but rejected it based on the idea that combustion
bi-products from those materials could be lethal. In the event of a fire, I
might be rendered unconscious (or worse) before I even got a chance to fight
the fire.
Therefore I opted for some thin-wall aluminum tube. I'm curious about what
other "listers" think.
-Jeff
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 07:36
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
At 09:55 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a closed wing. Right
now I'm leaning toward installing adel clamps with a piece of lacing cord
strung through them. I think a 1/2 inch cushioned clamp should be large
enough.
Consider a plastic conduit in Adel clamps. The hardware stores
stock a variety of water pipe in sizes down to 3/8". I think you'll
find that the 3/8 is large enough to accept your wires . . . it's
easy to test at the store . . . otherwise go up to 1/2". Here'a
one example of many.
http://tinyurl.com/cccad2q
The stuff is light, cheap, smooth wall and 100% assurance for ease
of installing wires at a later date.
Bob . . .
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/23/13
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Subject: | Re: Bazooka Dipole Antenna |
At 10:57 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Sometimes I believe what I read
>on the internet even though I should not.
>Joe
Better to have read, considered and accepted/rejected
for logical reasons. Education is not cheap. It takes
time, thought, experimentation, study and in some
cases assumption of risk.
Over my lifetime, I've probably pitched $thousands$
in poor return-on-investment or failed experiments . . .
but it's just as useful to know what things do work
as for those that do not. I'm pleased that you
brought this conversation to the List!
Bob . . .
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed"
>fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems
>like overkill for a grounding wire.
Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
certainly robust enough to the task. The
larger fasteners come into play when you're
wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
#10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
on the terminals.
Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
probably sufficed for most appliances. The
occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
for example) would give pause to consider something
larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.
The question that launched this thread called
for considering the long term performance of
a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
fasteners were always appropriate.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
Ditto. We ran HDPE (High Density Polyethelyne) tubing through left and
right wings in our Sportsman. Works well. Here are a couple of photos.
We got it from McMaster-Carr. 50375 K534 HDPE tubing 3/4 OD x 5/8 ID x
1/16 wall
Dee
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Jay Hyde <jay@horriblehyde.com> wrote:
> If you were talking about wiring in your cockpit or fuselage I=92d agree;
> but if you have a fire in your wing I think that gasses are going to be o
ne
> of your smaller worries=85. J****
>
> ** **
>
> Johannnesburg Jay****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Luckey
> *Sent:* 25 March 2013 07:37 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing****
>
> ** **
>
> Bob,****
>
> ** **
>
> I considered using plastic/PVC plumbing tubing/pipe for the conduit in th
e
> wing of my RV-7A but rejected it based on the idea that combustion
> bi-products from those materials could be lethal. In the event of a fire
,
> I might be rendered unconscious (or worse) before I even got a chance to
> fight the fire.****
>
> ** **
>
> Therefore I opted for some thin-wall aluminum tube. I=92m curious about
> what other =93listers=94 think.****
>
> ** **
>
> -Jeff****
>
> ** **
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com<owner-aeroelectric-li
st-server@matronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> *Sent:* Monday, March 25, 2013 07:36
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing****
>
> ** **
>
> At 09:55 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:****
>
> I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a closed wing. Righ
t
> now I'm leaning toward installing adel clamps with a piece of lacing cord
> strung through them. I think a 1/2 inch cushioned clamp should be large
> enough.****
>
>
> Consider a plastic conduit in Adel clamps. The hardware stores
> stock a variety of water pipe in sizes down to 3/8". I think you'll
> find that the 3/8 is large enough to accept your wires . . . it's
> easy to test at the store . . . otherwise go up to 1/2". Here'a
> one example of many.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cccad2q
>
> The stuff is light, cheap, smooth wall and 100% assurance for ease
> of installing wires at a later date.
>
> ****
>
> Bob . . . ****
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> * *
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 03/23/13****
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
--
DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
804-677-4849 iPhone
804-358-4333 Home
www.VirginiaFlyIn.org
Building Glasair Sportsman with 3 partners
Message 24
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|
Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head boltsbecause I
prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave up my
search and ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head screws. I'll
probably stock up on #10 terminals and use them for all my ground
connections.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>> My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed"
>> fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems
>> like overkill for a grounding wire.
>
> Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
> grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
> and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
> certainly robust enough to the task. The
> larger fasteners come into play when you're
> wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
> area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
> For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
> would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
> #10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
> on the terminals.
>
> Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
> probably sufficed for most appliances. The
> occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
> for example) would give pause to consider something
> larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.
>
> The question that launched this thread called
> for considering the long term performance of
> a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
> parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
> are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
> fasteners were always appropriate.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 25
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|
Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
Thanks for all the information and ideas on running wire through the
wing. I have decided to go with cushioned adelclampsand run some lacing
cord through for pulling wire at a later date.
Thanks again for everyone's input.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 02:45 PM, DeWitt Whittington wrote:
> Ditto. We ran HDPE (High Density Polyethelyne) tubing through left and
> right wings in our Sportsman. Works well. Here are a couple of photos.
>
> We got it from McMaster-Carr. 50375 K534 HDPE tubing 3/4 OD x 5/8 ID
> x 1/16 wall
>
> Dee
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Jay Hyde <jay@horriblehyde.com
> <mailto:jay@horriblehyde.com>> wrote:
>
> If you were talking about wiring in your cockpit or fuselage I'd
> agree; but if you have a fire in your wing I think that gasses are
> going to be one of your smaller worries.... J
>
> Johannnesburg Jay
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf
> Of *Jeff Luckey
> *Sent:* 25 March 2013 07:37 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
>
> Bob,
>
> I considered using plastic/PVC plumbing tubing/pipe for the
> conduit in the wing of my RV-7A but rejected it based on the idea
> that combustion bi-products from those materials could be lethal.
> In the event of a fire, I might be rendered unconscious (or worse)
> before I even got a chance to fight the fire.
>
> Therefore I opted for some thin-wall aluminum tube. I'm curious
> about what other "listers" think.
>
> -Jeff
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf
> Of *Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> *Sent:* Monday, March 25, 2013 07:36
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
>
> At 09:55 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>
> I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a closed
> wing. Right now I'm leaning toward installing adel clamps with a
> piece of lacing cord strung through them. I think a 1/2 inch
> cushioned clamp should be large enough.
>
>
> Consider a plastic conduit in Adel clamps. The hardware stores
> stock a variety of water pipe in sizes down to 3/8". I think you'll
> find that the 3/8 is large enough to accept your wires . . . it's
> easy to test at the store . . . otherwise go up to 1/2". Here'a
> one example of many.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cccad2q
>
> The stuff is light, cheap, smooth wall and 100% assurance for ease
> of installing wires at a later date.
>
> Bob . . .
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> * *
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
> 03/23/13
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List**
>
> ****
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **http://forums.matronics.com**
>
> ****
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
> --
> DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
> 804-677-4849 iPhone
> 804-358-4333 Home
> www.VirginiaFlyIn.org <http://www.VirginiaFlyIn.org>
> Building Glasair Sportsman with 3 partners
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32 tap, t
hey sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to be #10? Is this a "
fetch a pail of propwash" question?
On Mar 25, 2013, at 17:21, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I pre
fer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave up my search an
d ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head screws. I'll probably stock up
on #10 terminals and use them for all my ground connections.
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
> On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>>> My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed" faste
ners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems like overkill
for a grounding wire.
>>
>> Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
>> grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
>> and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
>> certainly robust enough to the task. The
>> larger fasteners come into play when you're
>> wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
>> area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
>> For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
>> would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
>> #10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
>> on the terminals.
>>
>> Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
>> probably sufficed for most appliances. The
>> occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
>> for example) would give pause to consider something
>> larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.
>>
>> The question that launched this thread called
>> for considering the long term performance of
>> a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
>> parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
>> are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
>> fasteners were always appropriate.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
AN bolts have rolled threads...if you have a "normal" tap you
will CUT threads into the bolt, weakening it, causing bolt shaft
weakness and potential fracture points:
www.bhamfast.com/pdfs/bhamfast_rtct.pdf
Harley
-----------------------------------------------------------------
On 3/25/2013 5:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote:
> When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my
> 10-32 tap, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider
> AN3 to be #10? Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?
>
>
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Both fasteners have a thread pitch of 32 threads per inch. The
difference lies in the diameter.
An AN3 bolt has a major diameter of 0.375 inches.
A #10 diameter fastener has a major diameter of 0.190 inches.
Compare an AN3-6A bolt to an AN 526-10R12 screw. Both are
approximately3/4 of an inch long and have 32 threads per inch on the
threaded portion.
As someone else mentioned AN/MS/NAS threads are all rolled threads,
which are formed by deforming the blank shaft. Nomaterial is removed.
Many other threads are made by cutting away material. Threads of the
same size can be formed using either method.
Hope this information is useful.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 04:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote:
> When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32
> tap, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to be #10?
> Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?
>
>
> On Mar 25, 2013, at 17:21, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>
>> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head boltsbecause I
>> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave up my
>> search and ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head screws. I'll
>> probably stock up on #10 terminals and use them for all my ground
>> connections.
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN.
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>> On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>> At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>>>> My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed"
>>>> fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems
>>>> like overkill for a grounding wire.
>>>
>>> Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
>>> grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
>>> and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
>>> certainly robust enough to the task. The
>>> larger fasteners come into play when you're
>>> wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
>>> area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
>>> For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
>>> would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
>>> #10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
>>> on the terminals.
>>>
>>> Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
>>> probably sufficed for most appliances. The
>>> occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
>>> for example) would give pause to consider something
>>> larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.
>>>
>>> The question that launched this thread called
>>> for considering the long term performance of
>>> a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
>>> parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
>>> are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
>>> fasteners were always appropriate.
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Say again please? I think .375 is more like the AN3 wrench size if we are t
alking about the same thing.
On Mar 25, 2013, at 19:31, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> Both fasteners have a thread pitch of 32 threads per inch. The difference
lies in the diameter.
>
> An AN3 bolt has a major diameter of 0.375 inches.
>
> A #10 diameter fastener has a major diameter of 0.190 inches.
>
> Compare an AN3-6A bolt to an AN 526-10R12 screw. Both are approximately 3
/4 of an inch long and have 32 threads per inch on the threaded portion.
>
> As someone else mentioned AN/MS/NAS threads are all rolled threads, which a
re formed by deforming the blank shaft. No
material is removed. Many other threads are made b
y cutting away material. Threads of the same size can be formed
using either method.
>
> Hope this information is useful.
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
> On 03/25/2013 04:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote:
>> When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32 tap
, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to be #10? Is this a
"fetch a pail of propwash" question?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2013, at 17:21, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I p
refer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave up my search a
nd ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head screws. I'll probably stock u
p on #10 terminals and use them for all my ground connections.
>>> Raymond Julian
>>> Kettle River, MN.
>>>
>>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>>> On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>>> At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>>>>> My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?)
"blessed" fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 s
eems like overkill for a grounding wire.
>>>>
>>>> Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
>>>> grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
>>>> and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
>>>> certainly robust enough to the task. The
>>>> larger fasteners come into play when you're
>>>> wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
>>>> area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
>>>> For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
>>>> would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
>>>> #10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
>>>> on the terminals.
>>>>
>>>> Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
>>>> probably sufficed for most appliances. The
>>>> occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
>>>> for example) would give pause to consider something
>>>> larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.
>>>>
>>>> The question that launched this thread called
>>>> for considering the long term performance of
>>>> a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
>>>> parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
>>>> are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
>>>> fasteners were always appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> Bob . . .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Agreed........
AN-3 is around .187"... NOT .375"
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
Say again please? I think .375 is more like the AN3 wrench size if we a
re talking about the same thing.
On Mar 25, 2013, at 19:31, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Both fasteners have a thread pitch of 32 threads per inch. The differen
ce lies in the diameter.
An AN3 bolt has a major diameter of 0.375 inches.
A #10 diameter fastener has a major diameter of 0.190 inches.
Compare an AN3-6A bolt to an AN 526-10R12 screw. Both are approximately
3/4 of an inch long and have 32 threads per inch on the threaded portio
n.
As someone else mentioned AN/MS/NAS threads are all rolled threads, whic
h are formed by deforming the blank shaft. No material is removed. Many
other threads are made by cutting away material. Threads of the same s
ize can be formed using either method.
Hope this information is useful.
Raymond JulianKettle River, MN."And you know that I could have me a mill
ion more friends,and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John P
rine On 03/25/2013 04:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote:
When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32 ta
p, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to be #10? Is
this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?
On Mar 25, 2013, at 17:21, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I p
refer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave up my sea
rch and ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head screws. I'll probabl
y stock up on #10 terminals and use them for all my ground connections.
Raymond JulianKettle River, MN."And you know that I could have me a mill
ion more friends,and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John P
rine On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed" faste
ners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems like over
kill for a grounding wire.
Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
certainly robust enough to the task. The
larger fasteners come into play when you're
wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
#10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
on the terminals.
Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
probably sufficed for most appliances. The
occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
for example) would give pause to consider something
larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.
The question that launched this thread called
for considering the long term performance of
a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
fasteners were always appropriate.
Bob . . .
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
____________________________________________________________
1 Key Fat Loss Hormone?
Doctor Reveals 1 Hormone Making You Fat & How To Banish It Now.
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Message 31
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
At 04:57 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my
>10-32 tap, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to
>be #10? Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?
See:
http://www.coastfab.com/images/pdf/2010/bolts_an3_an10.pdf
AN-X hardware is a very old specification that dates
back to a time when the numbers actually meant something.
Bob . . .
Message 32
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
The info I have says a #10 screw has a nominal diameter of 0.190 inches, wh
ile an AN3 bolt is 0.1875 inches, both with 32 treads per inch.=0A=0ARight
or wrong I just always treated them as interchangeable, or am I missing som
ething here?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: Jar
ed Yates <email@jaredyates.com>=0ATo: "aeroelectric-list@matronics.com" <ae
roelectric-list@matronics.com> =0ASent: Monday, March 25, 2013 6:52 PM=0ASu
bject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?=0A =0A=0AS
ay again please? -I think .375 is more like the AN3 wrench size if we are
talking about the same thing.=0A=0A=0AOn Mar 25, 2013, at 19:31, rayj <ray
mondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:=0A=0A=0ABoth fasteners have a thread pitch of
32 threads per inch.- The difference lies in the diameter.=0A>=0A>An AN3
bolt has a major diameter of 0.375 inches.=0A>=0A>A #10 diameter fastener
has a major diameter of 0.190 inches.=0A>=0A>Compare an AN3-6A bolt to an A
N 526-10R12 screw.- Both are approximately3/4 of an inch long and have 32
threads per inch on the threaded portion.=0A>=0A>As someone else mentioned
AN/MS/NAS threads are all rolled threads, which are formed by deforming th
e blank shaft. Nomaterial is removed.- Many other threads are made by cut
ting away material.- Threads of the same size can be formed using either
method.=0A>-=0A>Hope this information is useful. =0A>=0A>Raymond Julian
=0AKettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more frie
nds,=0Aand all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine =0AOn 03
/25/2013 04:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote:=0A>=0A>When I compare the threads on
my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32 tap, they sure look similar. Why wo
uldn't one consider AN3 to be #10? -Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash"
question?=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>On Mar 25, 2013, at 17:21, rayj <ray
mondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Agreed.- I was looking for so
me "blessed" #10 hex head boltsbecause I prefer a hex head over slotted or
phillips screw heads.- I gave up my search and ordered some #8 and #10 ph
illips round head screws. I'll probably stock up on #10 terminals and use t
hem for all my ground connections.=0A>>>=0A>>>Raymond Julian=0AKettle River
, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,=0Aand all
I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine =0AOn 03/25/2013 02:38
PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>>At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wr
ote:=0A>>>>=0A>>>>My thoughts also.- I've been looking for some #10 (an2?
) "blessed" fasteners without much luck.- Anyone know a good source.- A
n3 seems like overkill for a grounding wire. =0A>>>>-- Consider the eff
ects of scale. In the case for=0A>>>>-- grounding a fuel level sensor (
22AWG wires?)=0A>>>>-- and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is=0A>>>>
-- certainly robust enough to the task. The=0A>>>>-- larger fastene
rs come into play when you're=0A>>>>-- wanting to increase the gas-tigh
t contact=0A>>>>-- area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.=0A
>>>>-- For example, taking a battery(-) to structure=0A>>>>-- would
certainly benefit from the capabilities of=0A>>>>-- #10 or even .25 ha
rdware to put the super-mash=0A>>>>-- on the terminals.=0A>>>>=0A>>>>
-- Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware=0A>>>>-- probably suf
ficed for most appliances. The=0A>>>>-- occasional device (landing gear
hydraulic pumps=0A>>>>-- for example) would give pause to consider som
ething=0A>>>>-- larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.=0A>>>>=0A
>>>>-- The question that launched this thread called=0A>>>>-- for c
onsidering the long term performance of=0A>>>>-- a rivet to provide axi
al pressures on made-up=0A>>>>-- parts.- I think the consensus was th
at rivets=0A>>>>-- are problematic but appropriately sized threaded=0A>
>>>-- fasteners were always appropriate.=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>- Bob .
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
You are both correct. My mistake. I was thinking diameterof an an3 was
3/8 not 3/16. Boydo I feel dumb. My apologiesgentlemen. Itransposed
which dimension is measured in 1/16ths and which is measured in 1/8ths.
Now if I can only find out how take it out of the archive. :>)
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 07:06 PM, Ben Haas wrote:
>
> Agreed........
>
> AN-3 is around .187"... NOT .375"
>
> ============DNA removed by Raymond Julian==========
>
>
> Ben Haas
> N801BH
> www.haaspowerair.com
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Jared Yates <email@jaredyates.com>
> To: "aeroelectric-list@matronics.com" <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
> Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2013 19:52:04 -0400
>
> Say again please? I think .375 is more like the AN3 wrench size if we
> are talking about the same thing.
>
> On Mar 25, 2013, at 19:31, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>
>> Both fasteners have a thread pitch of 32 threads per inch. The
>> difference lies in the diameter.
>>
>> An AN3 bolt has a major diameter of 0.375 inches.
>>
>> A #10 diameter fastener has a major diameter of 0.190 inches.
>>
>> Compare an AN3-6A bolt to an AN 526-10R12 screw. Both are
>> approximately3/4 of an inch long and have 32 threads per inch on the
>> threaded portion.
>>
>> As someone else mentioned AN/MS/NAS threads are all rolled threads,
>> which are formed by deforming the blank shaft. Nomaterial is removed.
>> Many other threads are made by cutting away material. Threads of the
>> same size can be formed using either method.
>>
>> Hope this information is useful.
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN.
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>> On 03/25/2013 04:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote:
>>> When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my
>>> 10-32 tap, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to
>>> be #10? Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 25, 2013, at 17:21, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
>>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head boltsbecause
>>>> I prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave
>>>> up my search and ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head
>>>> screws. I'll probably stock up on #10 terminals and use them for
>>>> all my ground connections.
>>>> Raymond Julian
>>>> Kettle River, MN.
>>>>
>>>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>>>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>>>> On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>>>>> At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>>>>>> My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?)
>>>>>> "blessed" fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good
>>>>>> source. An3 seems like overkill for a grounding wire.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
>>>>> grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
>>>>> and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
>>>>> certainly robust enough to the task. The
>>>>> larger fasteners come into play when you're
>>>>> wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
>>>>> area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
>>>>> For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
>>>>> would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
>>>>> #10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
>>>>> on the terminals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
>>>>> probably sufficed for most appliances. The
>>>>> occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
>>>>> for example) would give pause to consider something
>>>>> larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.
>>>>>
>>>>> The question that launched this thread called
>>>>> for considering the long term performance of
>>>>> a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
>>>>> parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
>>>>> are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
>>>>> fasteners were always appropriate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
> =============================================
> 2http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> =============================================
> 2http://forums.matronics.com%22">http://forums.matronics.com
> =============================================
> 2http://www.matronics.com/contribution%22">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> =============================================
>
> *
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> *1 Key Fat Loss Hormone?*
> Doctor Reveals 1 Hormone Making You Fat & How To Banish It Now.
> <http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3242/5150e6b5153766b460d0st01duc>RealDose.com
> <http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3242/5150e6b5153766b460d0st01duc>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 34
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
Thanks for all the information and ideas on running wire through the
wing.
I have decided to go with cushioned adel clamps and run some lacing cord
through for pulling wire at a later date.
Thanks again for everyone's input.
Neoprene grommets work just as well. Just drill and deburr the holes.
You
can pick your routing to your advantage. Just make sure they are not
too
small.
Gordon Comfort N363GC
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