Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:30 AM - Re: Wires in wing (rayj)
2. 03:41 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Werner Schneider)
3. 04:47 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Jared Yates)
4. 05:21 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (William Schertz)
5. 05:31 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (rayj)
6. 05:37 AM - 12-24 to 5 V USB adapter mishap ()
7. 05:42 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (rayj)
8. 05:48 AM - Re: 12-24 to 5 V USB adapter mishap (Bob Verwey)
9. 06:38 AM - Re: Wires in wing (CHARLES T BECKER)
10. 06:58 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Sacha)
11. 06:59 AM - Re: Wires in wing (Eric M. Jones)
12. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: Wires in wing (Harley)
13. 07:25 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Jay Hyde)
14. 08:11 AM - Re: Wires in wing (Jeff Luckey)
15. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Wires in wing (Jeff Luckey)
16. 08:59 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Sacha)
17. 09:27 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (rayj)
18. 09:27 AM - Re: Wires in wing (Lynn Cole)
19. 09:38 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (GERRY VAN%20DYK)
20. 09:57 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Robert Borger)
21. 10:05 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Lynn Cole)
22. 11:30 AM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Bob Verwey)
23. 12:25 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? AN Bolts (Jay Hyde)
24. 12:41 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Christopher Cee Stone)
25. 12:57 PM - Re: 12-24 to 5 V USB adapter mishap (Peter Pengilly)
26. 01:04 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Peter Pengilly)
27. 02:16 PM - LED similar to EL strip (rayj)
28. 03:55 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Sacha)
29. 04:40 PM - Re: Wires in wing (user9253)
30. 07:00 PM - Re: LED similar to EL strip (R. curtis)
31. 08:06 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Bob McCallum)
32. 09:36 PM - Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? (Ed Holyoke)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
I'll be running through existing lightening holesso grommets won't work
inmy situation. Thanks for the idea.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 09:52 PM, Gordon or Marge wrote:
> Message
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf
> Of *rayj
> *Sent:* Monday, March 25, 2013 5:30 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
>
> Thanks for all the information and ideas on running wire through
> the wing. I have decided to go with cushioned adelclampsand run
> some lacing cord through for pulling wire at a later date.
>
> Thanks again for everyone's input.
>
> Neoprene grommets work just as well. Just drill and deburr the holes.
You can pick your routing to your advantage. Just make sure they are not too
small.
>
> Gordon Comfort N363GC
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
Cheers Werner
On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
I think I just realized the source of my confusion. When I read "hex head" I visualized
the head of an AN bolt. Maybe instead we are talking about socket heads?
On Mar 26, 2013, at 6:41, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>
> I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
>
> Cheers Werner
>
> On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
>> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
>> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much nicer
for avoiding stripouts like phillips
Bill Schertz
-----Original Message-----
From: Werner Schneider
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
Cheers Werner
On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
You understood what I was saying correctly. Problem was,what I was
saying was INCORRECT. The details of my mea culpa are in an earlier
email. Thanks for taking the timeto point out my error.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/26/2013 06:47 AM, Jared Yates wrote:
>
> I think I just realized the source of my confusion. When I read "hex head" I
visualized the head of an AN bolt. Maybe instead we are talking about socket heads?
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2013, at 6:41, Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>>
>> I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
>>
>> Cheers Werner
>>
>> On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
>>> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
>>> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | 12-24 to 5 V USB adapter mishap |
Group-
I bought this 12-24 V to iPhone/iPod/iPad/iPad2 adapter from ebay:
http://tinyurl.com/cf3f3kj
It is advertised and arrived clearly marked as "Input 12-24 V DC; Output 5 V /
3.1 A".
Nice, professional finish and markings. Mine reads USAMS (probably manufacturers
logo) and has 2 USB slots marked iPhone/iPod and iPad/iPad2, 3.1 A.
Not so fast I though - still being a bit circumspect, I tried it with a 5 V LED
light on a 24 V bus (engine not running) instead of enthusiastically plugging
in my tablet :) . Glad I didnt ! -
After a second or so there was a crackling sound, smoke, and the LED map light
burned out. Now I have an adapter with 24 V in and 24 V out :) Shall we say you
get what you pay for ? :)
Anyone else with similar experience?
Rumen
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the ones I
chose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big assortment of small AN
screws. If I could have gotten an stuff with 6 lobe recess, I would
have prefered it. Definitely preferable to Phillips.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
> <wschertz@comcast.net>
>
> Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much
> nicer for avoiding stripouts like phillips
> Bill Schertz
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
>
> <glastar@gmx.net>
>
> Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>
> I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
>
> Cheers Werner
>
> On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
>> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
>> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 12-24 to 5 V USB adapter mishap |
Yup, you get what you pay for!
I usually pay top dollar for devices like this for the very reasons exposed
here!
Once bitten......
Bob
On 26 March 2013 14:36, <rd2@dejazzd.com> wrote:
>
>
> Group-
>
> I bought this 12-24 V to iPhone/iPod/iPad/iPad2 adapter from ebay:
> http://tinyurl.com/cf3f3kj
>
> It is advertised and arrived clearly marked as "Input 12-24 V DC; Output
5
> V / 3.1 A".
> Nice, professional finish and markings. Mine reads =93USAMS=94 (probably
> manufacturer=92s logo) and has 2 USB slots marked iPhone/iPod and iPad/iP
ad2,
> 3.1 A.
>
> Not so fast I though - still being a bit circumspect, I tried it with a 5
> V LED light on a 24 V bus (engine not running) instead of enthusiasticall
y
> plugging in my tablet :) . Glad I didn=92t ! -
>
> After a second or so there was a crackling sound, smoke, and the LED map
> light burned out. Now I have an adapter with 24 V in and 24 V out :) Sha
ll
> we say =93you get what you pay for=94 ? :)
>
> Anyone else with similar experience?
> Rumen
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
wing tip off, wing not yet installed. We were able to
reach from both ends and through the inspection openings
in the bottom of the wing. It would have been easier if I
had the arms of an orangutan, as would many things in
building an 8A, but the result was more than satisfactory.
Hind sight being 20/20, I might choose to install it
before I riveted the wings closed. :)
On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 16:48:04 +0100
Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> wrote:
>Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
>
> Sorry,
>
> I did not get it you had a closed wing, I did these
>before closing the wing.
>
>
> On 25.03.2013 15:55, rayj wrote:
>> I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a
>>closed wing.
>
>Un/Subscription,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>Forums!
>Admin.
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and where I
can buy some? I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in Europe, though I'm w
illing to order from the US if necessary. I've been going nuts (no pun inten
ded) trying to look for some but can only find a few manufacturers, nothing f
or the retail buyer.
On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the ones I c
hose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big assortment of small AN scre
ws. If I could have gotten an stuff with 6 lobe recess, I would have prefer
ed it. Definitely preferable to Phillips.
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
> On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
ast.net>
>>
>> Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much nice
r for avoiding stripouts like phillips
>> Bill Schertz
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
>>
t>
>>
>> Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>>
>> I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
>>
>> Cheers Werner
>>
>> On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
>>> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
>>> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
I find it remarkable that I am the only dinosaur who remembers these. There are
very specific parts used to thread wires through lightening holes: Panduit Lightening
Hole Mounting System, LHMS is what they are called. I used to sell them
until Digikey started to.
http://hqwww.panduit.com/panduit/groups/MPM-GAWA/documents/PartDrawing/086887.pdf
They are really worth getting.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397082#397082
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
On 3/26/2013 9:59 AM, Eric M. Jones wrote:
> I find it remarkable that I am the only dinosaur who remembers these.
I do as well, Eric...dinosaur? Not after seeing the picture you
have on your website flying your ultramodern plane!
Harley
Message 13
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| Subject: | Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Hello Sacha,
I have the same problem in South Africa. For non structural parts I
simply use Metric sized bolts and nuts; usually stainless steel ones to
protect against corrosion. Stainless steel and aluminium have
relatively close galvanic potentials as far as I can see. I have given
up trying to source, or even understand (!) the imperial nut and bolt
thread system; its far easier to walk into a bolt store and ask for M6 x
25mm bolts and M6 nuts. J
For structural parts you must however use AN fasteners and they are not
too difficult to understand (unless you need to order a tap or
die) ; I order them directly from Aircraft Spruce in the US.
Johannesburg Jay
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: 26 March 2013 03:58 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and
where I can buy some? I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in Europe,
though I'm willing to order from the US if necessary. I've been going
nuts (no pun intended) trying to look for some but can only find a few
manufacturers, nothing for the retail buyer.
On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the ones I
chose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big assortment of small AN
screws. If I could have gotten an stuff with 6 lobe recess, I would
have prefered it. Definitely preferable to Phillips.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
<mailto:wschertz@comcast.net> <wschertz@comcast.net>
Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much
nicer for avoiding stripouts like phillips
Bill Schertz
-----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
<mailto:glastar@gmx.net> <glastar@gmx.net>
Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
Cheers Werner
On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 14
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Ray,
My tubing came form Aircraft Spruce: Aluminum tube, =BE in dia, .035
wall, AC
Part# 03-36150.
PS ' I might use the Panduit conduit mounts that Eric recommended to
support
the tube on every-other rib
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rayj
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:04
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
Jeff,
That is my 1st choice. Where did you get your thin wall aluminum. I've
not
been able to find anything that was the right combination of weight,
stiffness/straightness, cost and diameter. Something like lawn
furniture
tubing only smaller dia.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 12:36 PM, Jeff Luckey wrote:
Bob,
I considered using plastic/PVC plumbing tubing/pipe for the conduit in
the
wing of my RV-7A but rejected it based on the idea that combustion
bi-products from those materials could be lethal. In the event of a
fire, I
might be rendered unconscious (or worse) before I even got a chance to
fight
the fire.
Therefore I opted for some thin-wall aluminum tube. I=92m curious about
what
other =93listers=94 think.
-Jeff
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 07:36
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
At 09:55 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a closed wing.
Right
now I'm leaning toward installing adel clamps with a piece of lacing
cord
strung through them. I think a 1/2 inch cushioned clamp should be large
enough.
Consider a plastic conduit in Adel clamps. The hardware stores
stock a variety of water pipe in sizes down to 3/8". I think you'll
find that the 3/8 is large enough to accept your wires . . . it's
easy to test at the store . . . otherwise go up to 1/2". Here'a
one example of many.
http://tinyurl.com/cccad2q
The stuff is light, cheap, smooth wall and 100% assurance for ease
of installing wires at a later date.
Bob . . .
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
<http://forums.matronics.com> http://forums.matronics.com
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
Hey Eric,
Do you have any recommendations for hardware for the ends of tubing/conduit
in your bag-o-tricks?
I want the aluminum tube to end at and attach to the root & tip ribs. I'm
familiar w/ standard electrical conduit fittings, but the problem is that my
tubing is .750 OD - not a standard dimension for EMT fittings. Any
suggestions?
-Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 05:59
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wires in wing
<emjones@charter.net>
I find it remarkable that I am the only dinosaur who remembers these. There
are very specific parts used to thread wires through lightening holes:
Panduit Lightening Hole Mounting System, LHMS is what they are called. I
used to sell them until Digikey started to.
http://hqwww.panduit.com/panduit/groups/MPM-GAWA/documents/PartDrawing/08688
7.pdf
They are really worth getting.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397082#397082
-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Echo that... It's a shame that our US friends (and hence much of the aviatio
n world) is still stuck using that antiquated system... Metric seems so much
more coherent.
Anyway at the moment I'm presented with a situation which requires me to use
metric which is why I'm asking the question. I've also been doing what you
do (stainless for non structural, AN for the structural parts) but I am now
presented with the following dilemma:
For some reason the previous owner has drilled some 8mm holes and appears to
have been using 8mm stainless bolts to fasten the wings of the Kitfox I'm r
ebuilding. The original design calls for 5/16" diameter holes and AN5 bolts.
But now I'm reluctant to use them because an AN5 bolt will be a bit loose (
5/16" = 7.93mm) in an 8mm hole. On the other hand an M8 regular stainless b
olt is not really strong enough.
The best I've found so far is A4-80 a.k.a "strong stainless" which has a she
ar strength of 800MPa (vs the 700MPa of regular stainless). Plugging in the n
umbers gives a shear capacity of an M8 bolt as 800*8*8*pi/4= 40kN which is
approx 9000 lb. This is still approx 20% below that of an AN5 bolt (11500l
b). Hence my search for metric "aircraft grade" fasteners...
Ok sorry for the rant and for straying OT. I thought I would try to use the v
ast knowledge base if this group since I'm getting nowhere with Google... (j
ust mentioning this in for you Eric...:)
Sacha
On Mar 26, 2013, at 15:25, "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com> wrote:
> Hello Sacha,
>
> I have the same problem in South Africa. For non structural parts I simpl
y use Metric sized bolts and nuts; usually stainless steel ones to protect a
gainst corrosion. Stainless steel and aluminium have relatively close galva
nic potentials as far as I can see. I have given up trying to source, or ev
en understand (!) the imperial nut and bolt thread system; its far easier to
walk into a bolt store and ask for M6 x 25mm bolts and M6 nuts. J
>
> For structural parts you must however use AN fasteners and they are not to
o difficult to understand (unless you need to order a tap or die=81c) ; I or
der them directly from Aircraft Spruce in the US.
>
> Johannesburg Jay
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelect
ric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
> Sent: 26 March 2013 03:58 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
>
> Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and where
I can buy some? I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in Europe, though I'
m willing to order from the US if necessary. I've been going nuts (no pun in
tended) trying to look for some but can only find a few manufacturers, nothi
ng for the retail buyer.
>
> On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
> Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the ones I c
hose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big assortment of small AN scre
ws. If I could have gotten an stuff with 6 lobe recess, I would have prefer
ed it. Definitely preferable to Phillips.
>
> Raymond Julian
> Kettle River, MN.
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
> On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
st.net>
>
> Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much nicer
for avoiding stripouts like phillips
> Bill Schertz
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
>
>
>
> Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>
> I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
>
> Cheers Werner
>
> On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
>
> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Sacha,
The only suggestions I can think of are possibly sail boat hardware
suppliers, or high performancemotor sports suppliers.
Good luck on your search.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/26/2013 10:53 AM, Sacha wrote:
> Echo that... It's a shame that our US friends (and hence much of the
> aviation world) is still stuck using that antiquated system... Metric
> seems so much more coherent.
>
> Anyway at the moment I'm presented with a situation which requires me
> to use metric which is why I'm asking the question. I've also been
> doing what you do (stainless for non structural, AN for the structural
> parts) but I am now presented with the following dilemma:
>
> For some reason the previous owner has drilled some 8mm holes and
> appears to have been using 8mm stainless bolts to fasten the wings of
> the Kitfox I'm rebuilding. The original design calls for 5/16"
> diameter holes and AN5 bolts. But now I'm reluctant to use them
> because an AN5 bolt will be a bit loose (5/16" = 7.93mm) in an 8mm
> hole. On the other hand an M8 regular stainless bolt is not really
> strong enough.
>
> The best I've found so far is A4-80 a.k.a "strong stainless" which has
> a shear strength of 800MPa (vs the 700MPa of regular stainless).
> Plugging in the numbers gives a shear capacity of an M8 bolt as
> 800*8*8*pi/4= 40kN which is approx 9000 lb. This is still approx 20%
> below that of an AN5 bolt (11500lb). Hence my search for metric
> "aircraft grade" fasteners...
>
> Ok sorry for the rant and for straying OT. I thought I would try to
> use the vast knowledge base if this group since I'm getting nowhere
> with Google... (just mentioning this in for you Eric...:)
>
> Sacha
>
> On Mar 26, 2013, at 15:25, "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com
> <mailto:jay@horriblehyde.com>> wrote:
>
>> Hello Sacha,
>>
>> I have the same problem in South Africa. For non structural parts I
>> simply use Metric sized bolts and nuts; usually stainless steel ones
>> to protect against corrosion. Stainless steel and aluminium have
>> relatively close galvanic potentials as far as I can see. I have
>> given up trying to source, or even understand (!) the imperial nut
>> and bolt thread system; its far easier to walk into a bolt store and
>> ask for M6 x 25mm bolts and M6 nuts. J
>>
>> For structural parts you must however use AN fasteners and they are
>> not too difficult to understand (unless you need to order a tap or
>> die...) ; I order them directly from Aircraft Spruce in the US.
>>
>> Johannesburg Jay
>>
>> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *Sacha
>> *Sent:* 26 March 2013 03:58 PM
>> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
>>
>> Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and
>> where I can buy some? I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in
>> Europe, though I'm willing to order from the US if necessary. I've
>> been going nuts (no pun intended) trying to look for some but can
>> only find a few manufacturers, nothing for the retail buyer.
>>
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
>> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the
>> ones I chose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big
>> assortment of small AN screws. If I could have gotten an stuff
>> with 6 lobe recess, I would have prefered it. Definitely
>> preferable to Phillips.
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>>
>> Kettle River, MN.
>>
>>
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>>
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>>
>> On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
>>
>> <wschertz@comcast.net> <mailto:wschertz@comcast.net>
>>
>> Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx
>> drive, much nicer for avoiding stripouts like phillips
>> Bill Schertz
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to
>> airframe?
>>
>> <glastar@gmx.net> <mailto:glastar@gmx.net>
>>
>> Ray checkout
>> http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>>
>> I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
>>
>> Cheers Werner
>>
>> On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
>>
>> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts
>> because I
>> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>> * *
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> **
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>> **
>> * *
>> *
>>
>> ==================================
>> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ==================================
>> cs.com
>> ==================================
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> ==================================
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
I used exactly the same HDPE tubing purchased from McMaster in the wings
of my Murphy Rebel Elite as Mr Wittington did in his Sportsman. It
looks like it will have adequate capacity and work well, but I haven't
attached the wings to the fuselage yet.
-----
Lynn Cole
N76426 1946 Cessna 140
Murphy Rebel Elite under construction
LynnCole@foxvalley.net
On Mar 25, 2013, at 2:45 PM, DeWitt Whittington wrote:
> Ditto. We ran HDPE (High Density Polyethelyne) tubing through left and
right wings in our Sportsman. Works well. Here are a couple of photos.
>
> We got it from McMaster-Carr. 50375 K534 HDPE tubing 3/4 OD x 5/8 ID
x 1/16 wall
>
> Dee
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Jay Hyde <jay@horriblehyde.com>
wrote:
> If you were talking about wiring in your cockpit or fuselage I=92d
agree; but if you have a fire in your wing I think that gasses are going
to be one of your smaller worries=85. J
>
>
>
> Johannnesburg Jay
>
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Luckey
> Sent: 25 March 2013 07:37 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
>
>
>
> Bob,
>
>
>
> I considered using plastic/PVC plumbing tubing/pipe for the conduit in
the wing of my RV-7A but rejected it based on the idea that combustion
bi-products from those materials could be lethal. In the event of a
fire, I might be rendered unconscious (or worse) before I even got a
chance to fight the fire.
>
>
>
> Therefore I opted for some thin-wall aluminum tube. I=92m curious
about what other =93listers=94 think.
>
>
>
> -Jeff
>
>
>
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 07:36
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wires in wing
>
>
>
> At 09:55 AM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
>
> I'm not sure how I would install the tie wrap inside a closed wing.
Right now I'm leaning toward installing adel clamps with a piece of
lacing cord strung through them. I think a 1/2 inch cushioned clamp
should be large enough.
>
>
> Consider a plastic conduit in Adel clamps. The hardware stores
> stock a variety of water pipe in sizes down to 3/8". I think you'll
> find that the 3/8 is large enough to accept your wires . . . it's
> easy to test at the store . . . otherwise go up to 1/2". Here'a
> one example of many.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cccad2q
>
> The stuff is light, cheap, smooth wall and 100% assurance for ease
> of installing wires at a later date.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 03/23/13
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
> ist"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
> --
> DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
> 804-677-4849 iPhone
> 804-358-4333 Home
> www.VirginiaFlyIn.org
> Building Glasair Sportsman with 3 partners
>
> <IMG_2124 Fuel vent line and aileron cables passing through flap track
(Large).JPG><IMG_6956 L tip nose rib showing PVC tube for wing wiring
(Large).JPG>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Sacha, h ave a look at Unbrako products.=C2- http://unbrako.com/ =C2- T
hey're primarily socket head cap screws, both imperial and metric , all wi
th rolled threads and I believe they're the highest quality fasteners for i
ndustrial use.=C2- You can download they're engineering guide to research
how they compare to AN for strength and ductility, hopefully they're up to
par on corrosion resistance as well.=C2- They're European base is in Ire
land, I imagine their products should be available at industrial suppliers.
Gerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sacha" <uuccio@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 9:53:55 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
Echo that... It's a shame that our US friends (and hence much of the aviati
on world) is still stuck using that antiquated system... Metric seems so mu
ch more coherent.=C2-
Anyway at the moment I'm presented with a situation which requires me to us
e metric which is why I'm asking the question. =C2-I've also been doing w
hat you do (stainless for non structural, AN for the structural parts) but
I am now presented with the following dilemma:
For some reason the previous owner has drilled some 8mm holes and appears t
o have been using 8mm stainless bolts to fasten the wings of the Kitfox I'm
rebuilding. The original design calls for 5/16" diameter holes and AN5 bol
ts. But now I'm reluctant to use them because an AN5 bolt will be a bit loo
se (5/16" = 7.93mm) in an 8mm hole. On the other hand an M8 regular stain
less bolt is not really strong enough.=C2-
The best I've found so far is A4-80 a.k.a "strong stainless" which has a sh
ear strength of 800MPa (vs the 700MPa of regular stainless). Plugging in th
e numbers gives a shear capacity of an M8 bolt as 800*8*8*pi/4= 40kN whic
h is approx 9000 lb. =C2-This is still approx 20% below that of an AN5 bo
lt (11500lb). Hence my search for metric "aircraft grade" fasteners...
Ok sorry for the rant and for straying OT. I thought I would try to use the
vast knowledge base if this group since I'm getting nowhere with Google...
(just mentioning this in for you Eric...:)
Sacha=C2-
On Mar 26, 2013, at 15:25, "Jay Hyde" < jay@horriblehyde.com > wrote:
Hello Sacha,
=C2-
I have the same problem in South Africa.=C2- For non structural parts I s
imply use Metric sized bolts and nuts; usually stainless steel ones to prot
ect against corrosion.=C2- Stainless steel and aluminium have relatively
close galvanic potentials as far as I can see.=C2- I have given up trying
to source, or even understand (!) the imperial nut and bolt thread system;
its far easier to walk into a bolt store and ask for M6 x 25mm bolts and M
6 nuts.=C2- J
=C2-
For structural parts you must however use AN fasteners and they are not too
difficult to understand (unless you need to order a tap or die) ;
I order them directly from Aircraft Spruce in the US.
=C2-
Johannesburg Jay
=C2-
=C2-
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-aeroelect
ric-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: 26 March 2013 03:58 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
=C2-
Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and where
I can buy some? =C2-I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in Europe, thou
gh I'm willing to order from the US if necessary. I've been going nuts (no
pun intended) trying to look for some but can only find a few manufacturers
, nothing for the retail buyer.=C2-
On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj < raymondj@frontiernet.net > wrote:
<blockquote>
Looks like a great source for fasteners.=C2- I wanted to be sure the ones
I chose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big assortment of small AN
screws.=C2- If I could have gotten an stuff with 6 lobe recess, I would
have prefered it.=C2- Definitely preferable to Phillips.
Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. =C2- "And you know that I could have me
a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - Jo
hn Prine
On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
<blockquote>
t.net>
Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much nicer
for avoiding stripouts like phillips
Bill Schertz
-----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
Cheers Werner
On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2-
</blockquote>
=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://f
orums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- ===
======
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ======
===
cs.com ======================
============
matronics.com/contribution ================
===================
</blockquote>
===
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Sacha,
Normally, I'd suggest that you simply go up one size to AN6 hardware.
Cost a tiny bit in weight but is easy to do and the hardware is readily
available through Spruce and other suppliers.
If you feel you must stay with metric hardware, you can try
McMaster-Carr ( mcmaster.com ) for high-strength steel metric bolts.
They have class 10.9 bolts with a structural rating of 150,000 psi or
greater. They are even available partially threaded with a
Zinc-Chromate finish just like good AN hardware. Go to their web site,
select fasteners then select screws. Next, from the left hand column
you can select metric and the size, M8.
You will have to decide if these are strong enough to meet your needs.
Good luck.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger@mac.com
On Mar 26, 2013, at 10:53 AM, Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com> wrote:
Echo that... It's a shame that our US friends (and hence much of the
aviation world) is still stuck using that antiquated system... Metric
seems so much more coherent.
Anyway at the moment I'm presented with a situation which requires me to
use metric which is why I'm asking the question. I've also been doing
what you do (stainless for non structural, AN for the structural parts)
but I am now presented with the following dilemma:
For some reason the previous owner has drilled some 8mm holes and
appears to have been using 8mm stainless bolts to fasten the wings of
the Kitfox I'm rebuilding. The original design calls for 5/16" diameter
holes and AN5 bolts. But now I'm reluctant to use them because an AN5
bolt will be a bit loose (5/16" = 7.93mm) in an 8mm hole. On the other
hand an M8 regular stainless bolt is not really strong enough.
The best I've found so far is A4-80 a.k.a "strong stainless" which has a
shear strength of 800MPa (vs the 700MPa of regular stainless). Plugging
in the numbers gives a shear capacity of an M8 bolt as 800*8*8*pi/4=
40kN which is approx 9000 lb. This is still approx 20% below that of an
AN5 bolt (11500lb). Hence my search for metric "aircraft grade"
fasteners...
Ok sorry for the rant and for straying OT. I thought I would try to use
the vast knowledge base if this group since I'm getting nowhere with
Google... (just mentioning this in for you Eric...:)
Sacha
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Sacha,
The approved method for using ANx bolts for critical items like wing and
strut or horizontal stab attachments is to drill the holes undersized
and use an adjustable reamer to ream the holes to a tight fit for the
bolts. The reamed hole will be undersized by 0.001-0.003 inches
compared to the nominal size of the bolt.
-----
Lynn Cole
LynnCole@foxvalley.net
On Mar 26, 2013, at 10:53 AM, Sacha wrote:
> Echo that... It's a shame that our US friends (and hence much of the
aviation world) is still stuck using that antiquated system... Metric
seems so much more coherent.
>
> Anyway at the moment I'm presented with a situation which requires me
to use metric which is why I'm asking the question. I've also been
doing what you do (stainless for non structural, AN for the structural
parts) but I am now presented with the following dilemma:
>
> For some reason the previous owner has drilled some 8mm holes and
appears to have been using 8mm stainless bolts to fasten the wings of
the Kitfox I'm rebuilding. The original design calls for 5/16" diameter
holes and AN5 bolts. But now I'm reluctant to use them because an AN5
bolt will be a bit loose (5/16" = 7.93mm) in an 8mm hole. On the other
hand an M8 regular stainless bolt is not really strong enough.
>
> The best I've found so far is A4-80 a.k.a "strong stainless" which has
a shear strength of 800MPa (vs the 700MPa of regular stainless).
Plugging in the numbers gives a shear capacity of an M8 bolt as
800*8*8*pi/4= 40kN which is approx 9000 lb. This is still approx 20%
below that of an AN5 bolt (11500lb). Hence my search for metric
"aircraft grade" fasteners...
>
> Ok sorry for the rant and for straying OT. I thought I would try to
use the vast knowledge base if this group since I'm getting nowhere with
Google... (just mentioning this in for you Eric...:)
>
> Sacha
>
> On Mar 26, 2013, at 15:25, "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello Sacha,
>>
>> I have the same problem in South Africa. For non structural parts I
simply use Metric sized bolts and nuts; usually stainless steel ones to
protect against corrosion. Stainless steel and aluminium have
relatively close galvanic potentials as far as I can see. I have given
up trying to source, or even understand (!) the imperial nut and bolt
thread system; its far easier to walk into a bolt store and ask for M6 x
25mm bolts and M6 nuts. J
>>
>> For structural parts you must however use AN fasteners and they are
not too difficult to understand (unless you need to order a tap or die=85)
; I order them directly from Aircraft Spruce in the US.
>>
>> Johannesburg Jay
>>
>>
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
>> Sent: 26 March 2013 03:58 PM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
>>
>> Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and
where I can buy some? I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in Europe,
though I'm willing to order from the US if necessary. I've been going
nuts (no pun intended) trying to look for some but can only find a few
manufacturers, nothing for the retail buyer.
>>
>> On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>
>> Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the
ones I chose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big assortment of
small AN screws. If I could have gotten an stuff with 6 lobe recess, I
would have prefered it. Definitely preferable to Phillips.
>>
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN.
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>> On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
<wschertz@comcast.net>
>>
>> Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much
nicer for avoiding stripouts like phillips
>> Bill Schertz
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
>>
<glastar@gmx.net>
>>
>> Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>>
>> I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
>>
>> Cheers Werner
>>
>> On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
>>
>> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
>> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <="" span="">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> <="" span="">
>> <="" span="">
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> <="" span="">
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>> ========================
>> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>> ========================
>> cs.com
>> ========================
>> matronics.com/contribution
>> ========================
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Robert, agree with you. Lets not loose sight of the fact that an AN bolt
has "grip" and a relatively short thread. This is by far the most
convenient feature, because with other fasteners you will end up cutting
off excess thread, and you will have to go and measure for yourself what
the grip is.
Hardware is a fraction of the weight or cost of the project. Straying from
aircraft hardware will cost you lots of time.
Also, aircraft bolts are "tough", and will bend long before they break. And
they are corrosion protected with no danger of hydrogen embrittlement, and
....the list goes on.....
Bob Verwey
Bonanza ZU-DLW
Safari ZU-AJF
On 26 March 2013 18:57, Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com> wrote:
> Sacha,
>
> Normally, I'd suggest that you simply go up one size to AN6 hardware.
> Cost a tiny bit in weight but is easy to do and the hardware is readily
> available through Spruce and other suppliers.
>
> If you feel you must stay with metric hardware, you can try McMaster-Carr
> ( mcmaster.com ) for high-strength steel metric bolts. They have class
> 10.9 bolts with a structural rating of 150,000 psi or greater. They are
> even available partially threaded with a Zinc-Chromate finish just like
> good AN hardware. Go to their web site, select fasteners then select
> screws. Next, from the left hand column you can select metric and the
> size, M8.
>
> You will have to decide if these are strong enough to meet your needs.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Blue skies & tailwinds,
> Bob Borger
> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.
> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208-5331
> Cel: 817-992-1117
> rlborger@mac.com
>
> On Mar 26, 2013, at 10:53 AM, Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Echo that... It's a shame that our US friends (and hence much of the
> aviation world) is still stuck using that antiquated system... Metric seems
> so much more coherent.
>
> Anyway at the moment I'm presented with a situation which requires me to
> use metric which is why I'm asking the question. I've also been doing what
> you do (stainless for non structural, AN for the structural parts) but I am
> now presented with the following dilemma:
>
> For some reason the previous owner has drilled some 8mm holes and appears
> to have been using 8mm stainless bolts to fasten the wings of the Kitfox
> I'm rebuilding. The original design calls for 5/16" diameter holes and AN5
> bolts. But now I'm reluctant to use them because an AN5 bolt will be a bit
> loose (5/16" = 7.93mm) in an 8mm hole. On the other hand an M8 regular
> stainless bolt is not really strong enough.
>
> The best I've found so far is A4-80 a.k.a "strong stainless" which has a
> shear strength of 800MPa (vs the 700MPa of regular stainless). Plugging in
> the numbers gives a shear capacity of an M8 bolt as 800*8*8*pi/4= 40kN
> which is approx 9000 lb. This is still approx 20% below that of an AN5
> bolt (11500lb). Hence my search for metric "aircraft grade" fasteners...
>
> Ok sorry for the rant and for straying OT. I thought I would try to use
> the vast knowledge base if this group since I'm getting nowhere with
> Google... (just mentioning this in for you Eric...:)
>
> Sacha
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Blind riveting ground to airframe? AN Bolts |
Hello again Sacha,
Yep you are correct; the US is capable of producing remarkable feats of
engineering- even more so when you consider the horrible measurement
systems that they use!
;-)
How about drilling the hole larger, to say a 10mm hole and then bushing
it with a 10mm OD and 5/16th (7.94mm) ID mild steel insert?
Jay
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: 26 March 2013 05:54 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
Echo that... It's a shame that our US friends (and hence much of the
aviation world) is still stuck using that antiquated system... Metric
seems so much more coherent.
Anyway at the moment I'm presented with a situation which requires me to
use metric which is why I'm asking the question. I've also been doing
what you do (stainless for non structural, AN for the structural parts)
but I am now presented with the following dilemma:
For some reason the previous owner has drilled some 8mm holes and
appears to have been using 8mm stainless bolts to fasten the wings of
the Kitfox I'm rebuilding. The original design calls for 5/16" diameter
holes and AN5 bolts. But now I'm reluctant to use them because an AN5
bolt will be a bit loose (5/16" = 7.93mm) in an 8mm hole. On the other
hand an M8 regular stainless bolt is not really strong enough.
The best I've found so far is A4-80 a.k.a "strong stainless" which has a
shear strength of 800MPa (vs the 700MPa of regular stainless). Plugging
in the numbers gives a shear capacity of an M8 bolt as 800*8*8*pi/4=
40kN which is approx 9000 lb. This is still approx 20% below that of an
AN5 bolt (11500lb). Hence my search for metric "aircraft grade"
fasteners...
Ok sorry for the rant and for straying OT. I thought I would try to use
the vast knowledge base if this group since I'm getting nowhere with
Google... (just mentioning this in for you Eric...:)
Sacha
On Mar 26, 2013, at 15:25, "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com> wrote:
Hello Sacha,
I have the same problem in South Africa. For non structural parts I
simply use Metric sized bolts and nuts; usually stainless steel ones to
protect against corrosion. Stainless steel and aluminium have
relatively close galvanic potentials as far as I can see. I have given
up trying to source, or even understand (!) the imperial nut and bolt
thread system; its far easier to walk into a bolt store and ask for M6 x
25mm bolts and M6 nuts. J
For structural parts you must however use AN fasteners and they are not
too difficult to understand (unless you need to order a tap or
die) ; I order them directly from Aircraft Spruce in the US.
Johannesburg Jay
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: 26 March 2013 03:58 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and
where I can buy some? I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in Europe,
though I'm willing to order from the US if necessary. I've been going
nuts (no pun intended) trying to look for some but can only find a few
manufacturers, nothing for the retail buyer.
On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the ones I
chose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big assortment of small AN
screws. If I could have gotten an stuff with 6 lobe recess, I would
have prefered it. Definitely preferable to Phillips.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
<mailto:wschertz@comcast.net> <wschertz@comcast.net>
Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much
nicer for avoiding stripouts like phillips
Bill Schertz
-----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
<mailto:glastar@gmx.net> <glastar@gmx.net>
Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
Cheers Werner
On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
<="" span="">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
<="" span="">
<="" span="">
http://forums.matronics.com
<="" span="">
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
=========
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=========
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=========
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Hello Sacha...
The quick answer is there are no AN metric fasteners... The US military
never adopted the metric system so all are US ANSI standard sizes. That
said acceptable metric equivalents can be found.
Stainless Steel
Stainless steel is a family of iron-based alloys that must contain at least
10.5% chromium. The presence of
chromium creates an invisible surface film that resists oxidation and makes
the material =9Cpassive=9D or
corrosion resistant. Other elements, such as nickel or molybdenum are added
to increase corrosion
resistance, strength or heat resistance.
Stainless steels can be simply and logically divided into three classes on
the basis of their microstructure;
austenitic, martensitic or ferritic. Each of these classes has specific
properties and basic grade or =9Ctype.=9D
Also, further alloy modifications can be made to alter the chemical
composition to meet the needs of
different corrosion conditions, temperature ranges, strength requirements,
or to improve weldability,
machinability, work hardening and formability.
Austenitic stainless steels contain higher amounts of chromium and nickel
than the other types. They are
not hardenable by heat treatment and offer a high degree of corrosion
resistance. Primarily, they are nonmagnetic;
however, some parts may become slightly magnetic after cold working. The
tensile strength of
austenitic stainless steel varies from 75,000 to 105,000 psi.
18-8 Stainless steel is a type of austenitic stainless steel that contains
approximately 18% chromium and
8% nickel. Grades of stainless steel in the 18-8 series include, but not
limited to; 302, 303, 304 and XM7.
Alloy Steels
Carbon steel can be classified as an alloy steel when the manganese content
exceeds 1.65%, when silicon
or copper exceeds 0.60% or when chromium is less then 4%. Carbon steel can
also be classified as an
alloy if a specified minimum content of aluminum, titanium, vanadium,
nickel or any other element has
been added to achieve specific results. Additions of chromium, nickel and
molybdenum improve the
capacity of the alloys to be heat treated, giving rise to a wide variety of
strength to ductility combinations.
SAE J429 Grade 8, ASTM A354 Grade BD, ASTM A490, ASTM A193 B7 are all
common examples of
alloy steel fasteners.
ASTM A193 B7
=A2 Tensile Strength: 125,000 PSI minimum (2-1/2-inch and under)
=A2 Yield Strength: 105,000 PSI minimum (2-1/2-inch and under)
=A2 Hardness: HRC 35 Maximum
SAE J429 Grade 8
=A2 Tensile Strength: 150,000 PSI minimum
=A2 Proof Strength: 120,000 PSI
=A2 Yield Strength: 130,000 PSI minimum
=A2 Hardness: HRC 33-39
ASTM A574 Socket Head Cap Screw
=A2 Tensile Strength: 180,000 PSI minimum (through =C2=BD=9D),
170,000 PSI minimum
(above =C2=BD=9D)
=A2 Proof Strength: 140,000 PSI (through =C2=BD=9D), 135,000 PS
I (above =C2=BD=9D)
=A2 Yield Strength: 153,000 PSI minimum
=A2 Hardness: HRC 39-45 (through =C2=BD=9D), HRC 37-45 (above
=C2=BD=9D)
Metric Grade 8 hardware:
http://metric-threaded.com/items.aspx?category=Inch%20Hex%20Head%20Bolt%2
0Grade%208%20Zinc%20Yellow&id=7306
Chris Stone
RV-8
Newberg, OR
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com> wrote:
> Echo that... It's a shame that our US friends (and hence much of the
> aviation world) is still stuck using that antiquated system... Metric see
ms
> so much more coherent.
>
> Anyway at the moment I'm presented with a situation which requires me to
> use metric which is why I'm asking the question. I've also been doing wh
at
> you do (stainless for non structural, AN for the structural parts) but I
am
> now presented with the following dilemma:
>
> For some reason the previous owner has drilled some 8mm holes and appears
> to have been using 8mm stainless bolts to fasten the wings of the Kitfox
> I'm rebuilding. The original design calls for 5/16" diameter holes and AN
5
> bolts. But now I'm reluctant to use them because an AN5 bolt will be a bi
t
> loose (5/16" = 7.93mm) in an 8mm hole. On the other hand an M8 regular
> stainless bolt is not really strong enough.
>
> The best I've found so far is A4-80 a.k.a "strong stainless" which has a
> shear strength of 800MPa (vs the 700MPa of regular stainless). Plugging i
n
> the numbers gives a shear capacity of an M8 bolt as 800*8*8*pi/4= 40kN
> which is approx 9000 lb. This is still approx 20% below that of an AN5
> bolt (11500lb). Hence my search for metric "aircraft grade" fasteners...
>
> Ok sorry for the rant and for straying OT. I thought I would try to use
> the vast knowledge base if this group since I'm getting nowhere with
> Google... (just mentioning this in for you Eric...:)
>
> Sacha
>
> On Mar 26, 2013, at 15:25, "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Sacha,****
>
> ** **
>
> I have the same problem in South Africa. For non structural parts I
> simply use Metric sized bolts and nuts; usually stainless steel ones to
> protect against corrosion. Stainless steel and aluminium have relatively
> close galvanic potentials as far as I can see. I have given up trying to
> source, or even understand (!) the imperial nut and bolt thread system; i
ts
> far easier to walk into a bolt store and ask for M6 x 25mm bolts and M6
> nuts. J****
>
> ** **
>
> For structural parts you must however use AN fasteners and they are not
> too difficult to understand (unless you need to order a tap or die
) ; I
> order them directly from Aircraft Spruce in the US.****
>
> ** **
>
> Johannesburg Jay****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [
> mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com<owner-aeroelectric-li
st-server@matronics.com>]
> *On Behalf Of *Sacha
> *Sent:* 26 March 2013 03:58 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?****
>
> ** **
>
> Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and wher
e
> I can buy some? I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in Europe, though
> I'm willing to order from the US if necessary. I've been going nuts (no p
un
> intended) trying to look for some but can only find a few manufacturers,
> nothing for the retail buyer. ****
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:****
>
> Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the ones I
> chose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big assortment of small AN
> screws. If I could have gotten an stuff with 6 lobe recess, I would have
> prefered it. Definitely preferable to Phillips.
>
> ****
>
> Raymond Julian****
>
> Kettle River, MN.****
>
> ** **
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,****
>
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine ****
>
> On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:****
>
> <wschertz@comcast.net> <wschertz@comcast.net>
>
> Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much nice
r
> for avoiding stripouts like phillips
> Bill Schertz
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
>
> <glastar@gmx.net> <glastar@gmx.net>
>
> Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>
> I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
>
> Cheers Werner
>
> On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
>
> ****
>
> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. ****
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> ========================
> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ========================
===========cs.com
> ========================
===========matronics.com/contribution
> ========================
> *
>
> *
>
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===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 12-24 to 5 V USB adapter mishap |
Would this be useful?
http://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/de-swadj3
Peter
On 26/03/2013 12:47, Bob Verwey wrote:
> Yup, you get what you pay for!
> I usually pay top dollar for devices like this for the very reasons
> exposed here!
> Once bitten......
> Bob
>
>
> On 26 March 2013 14:36, <rd2@dejazzd.com <mailto:rd2@dejazzd.com>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:rd2@dejazzd.com>>
>
>
> Group-
>
> I bought this 12-24 V to iPhone/iPod/iPad/iPad2 adapter from ebay:
> http://tinyurl.com/cf3f3kj
>
> It is advertised and arrived clearly marked as "Input 12-24 V DC;
> Output 5 V / 3.1 A".
> Nice, professional finish and markings. Mine reads USAMS
> (probably manufacturers logo) and has 2 USB slots marked
> iPhone/iPod and iPad/iPad2, 3.1 A.
>
> Not so fast I though - still being a bit circumspect, I tried it
> with a 5 V LED light on a 24 V bus (engine not running) instead of
> enthusiastically plugging in my tablet :) . Glad I didnt ! -
>
> After a second or so there was a crackling sound, smoke, and the
> LED map light burned out. Now I have an adapter with 24 V in and
> 24 V out :) Shall we say you get what you pay for ? :)
>
> Anyone else with similar experience?
> Rumen
>
>
> ==========
> -List"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
> ==========
> http://forums.matronics.com
> ==========
> le, List Admin.
> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ==========
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Sacha,
There is no metric equivalent to AN fasteners, different manufacturers
seem to use different standards of hardware. Find your local Piper or
Cessna supply house - or the mechanic at your local airfield - as they
will surely have a good supply of AN hardware. In the UK LAS Aerospace
have a good supply, but shipping is expensive to continental Europe.
Alternatively you could try A/C Spruce as they have a reasonable network
of suppliers throughout Europe.
Peter
On 26/03/2013 13:57, Sacha wrote:
> Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and
> where I can buy some? I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in
> Europe, though I'm willing to order from the US if necessary. I've
> been going nuts (no pun intended) trying to look for some but can only
> find a few manufacturers, nothing for the retail buyer.
>
> On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>
>> Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the
>> ones I chose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big assortment
>> of small AN screws. If I could have gotten an stuff with 6 lobe
>> recess, I would have prefered it. Definitely preferable to Phillips.
>> Raymond Julian
>> Kettle River, MN.
>>
>> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>> On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
>>> <wschertz@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much
>>> nicer for avoiding stripouts like phillips
>>> Bill Schertz
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
>>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
>>>
>>> <glastar@gmx.net>
>>>
>>> Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>>>
>>> I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
>>>
>>> Cheers Werner
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
>>>> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
>>>> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 27
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| Subject: | LED similar to EL strip |
Greetings,
Saw this item and thought of the EL strips that were so noisy. This is
listed as a flat LED.
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&productId=2153174&catalogId=10001&CID=PDF
--
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
All,
Thank you very much for all the excellent avenues to explore re metric hardware,
I learnt a lot in just one evening!
I am leaning towards the solution involving the next AN size up (AN6 bolts, but
will have to check whether the fittings will allow it), and will try to do it
as per Lynn's instructions.
Sacha
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Wires in wing |
The RV-12 uses plastic bushing that snap into holes drilled through the wing ribs.
Van's Aircraft sells them in various sizes for 8 cents each.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1364340395-166-15&browse=hardware&product=bushing
They are very light weight. Wires slide easier through plastic than through rubber.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397142#397142
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: LED similar to EL strip |
Saw this item and thought of the EL strips that were so noisy. This is l
isted as a flat LED.
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay=3FlangId=-1&
storeId=10001&productId=2153174&catalogId=10001&CID=PDF
I get the impression from some of the recent posts that some seem to th
ink that LED lights are noisy. THEY ARE NOT NOISY!
The high power leds need to have a current regulated supply, and one of
the more efficient methods of producing a regulated current is to use a sw
itching supply, which has an oscillator built in. This oscillator is often
the culpret that radiates the RF which gets into our radio receivers. The
se regulators can be designed quite easily to be quiet. Most of the ones t
hat we experimental aircraft builders are having a noise problem with were
originally built for automotive use where noise in the 120mhz range was not
an issue.
Roger
--
Do you have a slow PC=3F Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfi
ghter=3Fcid=sigen
Message 31
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| Subject: | Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Sacha;
The "proper" solution to your dilemma is to ream the holes to accept AN-6
hardware of the correct length and not substitute alternative materials of
unknown provenance in this critical application. The only remaining proviso
is to check edge distances etc carefully for adequate strength. It's
unlikely that the difference between -5 and -6 hardware will compromise the
structural integrity of the mount especially since your holes are already
8mm. Your new larger holes will only be about 30 thousandths of an inch
closer to the edge. Not enough to make much difference, but still critical
to check.
Good luck
Bob McC
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
Echo that... It's a shame that our US friends (and hence much of the
aviation world) is still stuck using that antiquated system... Metric seems
so much more coherent.
Anyway at the moment I'm presented with a situation which requires me to use
metric which is why I'm asking the question. I've also been doing what you
do (stainless for non structural, AN for the structural parts) but I am now
presented with the following dilemma:
For some reason the previous owner has drilled some 8mm holes and appears to
have been using 8mm stainless bolts to fasten the wings of the Kitfox I'm
rebuilding. The original design calls for 5/16" diameter holes and AN5
bolts. But now I'm reluctant to use them because an AN5 bolt will be a bit
loose (5/16" = 7.93mm) in an 8mm hole. On the other hand an M8 regular
stainless bolt is not really strong enough.
The best I've found so far is A4-80 a.k.a "strong stainless" which has a
shear strength of 800MPa (vs the 700MPa of regular stainless). Plugging in
the numbers gives a shear capacity of an M8 bolt as 800*8*8*pi/4= 40kN which
is approx 9000 lb. This is still approx 20% below that of an AN5 bolt
(11500lb). Hence my search for metric "aircraft grade" fasteners...
Ok sorry for the rant and for straying OT. I thought I would try to use the
vast knowledge base if this group since I'm getting nowhere with Google...
(just mentioning this in for you Eric...:)
Sacha
On Mar 26, 2013, at 15:25, "Jay Hyde" <jay@horriblehyde.com> wrote:
Hello Sacha,
I have the same problem in South Africa. For non structural parts I simply
use Metric sized bolts and nuts; usually stainless steel ones to protect
against corrosion. Stainless steel and aluminium have relatively close
galvanic potentials as far as I can see. I have given up trying to source,
or even understand (!) the imperial nut and bolt thread system; its far
easier to walk into a bolt store and ask for M6 x 25mm bolts and M6 nuts.
:-)
For structural parts you must however use AN fasteners and they are not too
difficult to understand (unless you need to order a tap or die.) ; I order
them directly from Aircraft Spruce in the US.
Johannesburg Jay
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sacha
Sent: 26 March 2013 03:58 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and where I
can buy some? I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in Europe, though I'm
willing to order from the US if necessary. I've been going nuts (no pun
intended) trying to look for some but can only find a few manufacturers,
nothing for the retail buyer.
On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the ones I
chose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big assortment of small AN
screws. If I could have gotten an stuff with 6 lobe recess, I would have
prefered it. Definitely preferable to Phillips.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
<mailto:wschertz@comcast.net> <wschertz@comcast.net>
Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx drive, much nicer
for avoiding stripouts like phillips
Bill Schertz
-----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
<mailto:glastar@gmx.net> <glastar@gmx.net>
Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
Cheers Werner
On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
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| Subject: | Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe? |
Stainless and aluminum don't play nice together. The aluminum will
donate ions and corrode. Cad plated steel is the AN way. The cadmium is
more anodic than the aluminum and acts as a sacrificial barrier.
Eventually, it has no more ions to donate and loses it's value as a
corrosion preventative. Time then for new hardware. Another approach
would be to prime your hardware and install it wet.
Ed Holyoke
On 3/26/2013 7:25 AM, Jay Hyde wrote:
>
> Hello Sacha,
>
> I have the same problem in South Africa. For non structural parts I
> simply use Metric sized bolts and nuts; usually stainless steel ones
> to protect against corrosion. Stainless steel and aluminium have
> relatively close galvanic potentials as far as I can see. I have
> given up trying to source, or even understand (!) the imperial nut and
> bolt thread system; its far easier to walk into a bolt store and ask
> for M6 x 25mm bolts and M6 nuts. J
>
> For structural parts you must however use AN fasteners and they are
> not too difficult to understand (unless you need to order a tap or
> die) ; I order them directly from Aircraft Spruce in the US.
>
> Johannesburg Jay
>
> *From:*owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Sacha
> *Sent:* 26 March 2013 03:58 PM
> *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to airframe?
>
> Does anyone know what the METRIC equivalent of an AN fastener is and
> where I can buy some? I'm in Italy, so preferably somewhere in
> Europe, though I'm willing to order from the US if necessary. I've
> been going nuts (no pun intended) trying to look for some but can only
> find a few manufacturers, nothing for the retail buyer.
>
>
> On Mar 26, 2013, at 13:42, rayj <raymondj@frontiernet.net
> <mailto:raymondj@frontiernet.net>> wrote:
>
> Looks like a great source for fasteners. I wanted to be sure the
> ones I chose were to an specs. I ended up ordering a big
> assortment of small AN screws. If I could have gotten an stuff
> with 6 lobe recess, I would have prefered it. Definitely
> preferable to Phillips.
>
> Raymond Julian
>
> Kettle River, MN.
>
>
>
> "And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
>
> and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
>
> On 03/26/2013 07:20 AM, William Schertz wrote:
>
> <wschertz@comcast.net> <mailto:wschertz@comcast.net>
>
> Also note that they carry 100 degree flat head with Torx
> drive, much nicer for avoiding stripouts like phillips
> Bill Schertz
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Werner Schneider
> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:41 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> <mailto:aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Blind riveting ground to
> airframe?
>
> <glastar@gmx.net> <mailto:glastar@gmx.net>
>
> Ray checkout
> http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm
>
> I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws
>
> Cheers Werner
>
> On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
>
> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts
> because I
> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.
>
>
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