Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:57 AM - Ebus Diode (Andy)
2. 09:16 AM - Re: Ebus Diode (The Kuffels)
3. 10:22 AM - Re: Ebus Diode (Andy)
4. 11:16 AM - Re: Ebus Diode (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 12:14 PM - LED strip lighting for panels (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 12:35 PM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (rayj)
7. 12:39 PM - Re: Dolphin Electrical Wire Connectors (David Josephson)
8. 12:42 PM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (Fisher Paul A.)
9. 01:08 PM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 01:33 PM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (B Tomm)
11. 03:41 PM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (Gilles Thesee)
Message 1
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The drawing http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/Diode_Installation.pdf
=46rom B and C shows both ~ (I don't have the correct symbol horizontal s wi
th -) terminals powered from the main bus with the + going to the Ebus and -
unused.
Question: I could run power from the main bus to either ~ terminal and power
the Ebus?
Powering both ~ terminals gains a little redundancy to power the Ebus?
Thanks,
Andy
Sent from my iPhone
Message 2
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Andy,
<< Question: I could run power from the main bus to either ~ terminal and
power the Ebus? >>
Yes, but this misses the purpose of connecting both AC terminals (~) to the
source. The package has 4 diodes. It is used everywhere as an AC to DC
rectifier. In theory you could use one high current diode but the cost of
the same capacity is much higher than the 4 diode package due to the very
high economy of scale from the 4 diode configuration even though we are
"wasting" diodes. The mounting for this package is also simpler.
The main enemy of semiconductors is heat. With the connection to two
divides in parallel the current between them is divided, not evenly divided
but still shared between the two. This spreads out the heat generation
which makes the device more robust.
<< Powering both ~ terminals gains a little redundancy to power the Ebus?
>>
As is hopefully explained above, the reason for using both ~ terminals is
spreading out the heat generation, not redundancy. If you have an Ebus
current of 15 amps, even if one diode carries 10 amps and the other only 5
amps, you are stressing the part less than having all 15 amps going through
1 diode. In other words, there is a good reason for connecting the source
to both ~ terminals which is what you should do.
Tom Kuffel
Message 3
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Great explanation!
Thanks,
Andy
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 2, 2013, at 11:13 AM, "The Kuffels" <kuffel@cyberport.net> wrote:
>
> Andy,
>
> << Question: I could run power from the main bus to either ~ terminal and power
the Ebus? >>
>
> Yes, but this misses the purpose of connecting both AC terminals (~) to the source.
The package has 4 diodes. It is used everywhere as an AC to DC rectifier.
In theory you could use one high current diode but the cost of the same
capacity is much higher than the 4 diode package due to the very high economy
of scale from the 4 diode configuration even though we are "wasting" diodes.
The mounting for this package is also simpler.
>
> The main enemy of semiconductors is heat. With the connection to two divides
in parallel the current between them is divided, not evenly divided but still
shared between the two. This spreads out the heat generation which makes the
device more robust.
>
> << Powering both ~ terminals gains a little redundancy to power the Ebus? >>
>
> As is hopefully explained above, the reason for using both ~ terminals is spreading
out the heat generation, not redundancy. If you have an Ebus current of
15 amps, even if one diode carries 10 amps and the other only 5 amps, you are
stressing the part less than having all 15 amps going through 1 diode. In other
words, there is a good reason for connecting the source to both ~ terminals
which is what you should do.
>
> Tom Kuffel
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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At 09:56 AM 4/2/2013, you wrote:
>The drawing
><http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/Diode_Installation.pdf>http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/Diode_Installation.pdf
> From B and C shows both ~ (I don't have the correct symbol
> horizontal s with -) terminals powered from the main bus with the +
> going to the Ebus and - unused.
>Question: I could run power from the main bus to either ~ terminal
>and power the Ebus?
>Powering both ~ terminals gains a little redundancy to power the Ebus?
No 'redundancy' just a potential tiny improvement in
thermal modeling. Not a big deal one way or another.
Run main bus power to either one or both AC input
terminals, one wire from (+) to e-bus.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | LED strip lighting for panels |
If your airplane has a glare shield, you can
consider the used of LED strip lights similar
to these.
http://tinyurl.com/c3wozbj
These strips are assembled from an array
of LED trios in series fitted with the appropriate
series resistor to provide max illumination with
12vdc applied. Each trio occupies about 2" of
length.
Three white lights in series do not begin to
output until applied voltage rises to 7.5 volts
or so. At 12 volts, each group of 3 lamps
(about 2" in length) draws about 25 milliamps.
Assume you need 36" of strip to stretch
across the glare shield (18 trios). You'll
need a dimmer control capable of carrying
18 x .025 or 0.45 amps. This relatively
low current draw makes the noise-free, linear
regulators more attractive. Referring to this
drawing
http://tinyurl.com/ccrpzfa
You see the architecture for a dimmer set up for
incandescent lamps. I.e. 4.5 volts minimum. For service
with these strips, the minimum needs to be raised to
7.5 volts. Further, we want to fix the adjustment
range at 7.5 - 12v or a delta-V of 3.5 volts.
Since our stock "pot" is 2.5K, then to get 3.5
volts dropped across the pot at max resistance,
we need a divider current of 3.5/2500 or 1.4 milliamps.
The voltage across the upper resistor is fixed at
1.25 volts by internal characteristics of the
317 regulator. 1.25V/0.0014A = 892 (910 ohms
is close enough and a standard 5% value).
Okay, with the pot at min resistance, we need
7.5 volts total output. (7.5 - 1.25)/0.0014
equals 4464 ohms (4700 is also a standard
value and sufficiently close).
So, if you'd care to build your own dimmer the
390 ohm resistor is replaced with a 910 ohm
resistor; the 910 ohm resistor is replaced with
a 4700 ohm resistor. The TO220 plastic package
version of the LM317 on a modicum of heatsink
would be 'fat' enough and entirely free of noise.
That 15-foot chunk of strip lighting for $20 is
delivered toyour door at that price and is probably
enough lighting to do 5 airplanes. I've copied B&C
on this posting to see if they'd be interested in
offering an LED strip light version of their DIM5-14
product.
http://tinyurl.com/dylkufj
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: LED strip lighting for panels |
Bob,
Do I understand correctly that you are controlling LED brightness by
varying the voltage?
My understanding was that a PWM was needed to dim LEDs. Of course, I've
been wrong before. :>)
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 04/02/2013 02:12 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> If your airplane has a glare shield, you can
> consider the used of LED strip lights similar
> to these.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/c3wozbj
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/c3wozbj>These strips are assembled from an array
> of LED trios in series fitted with the appropriate
> series resistor to provide max illumination with
> 12vdc applied. Each trio occupies about 2" of
> length.
>
> Three white lights in series do not begin to
> output until applied voltage rises to 7.5 volts
> or so. At 12 volts, each group of 3 lamps
> (about 2" in length) draws about 25 milliamps.
>
> Assume you need 36" of strip to stretch
> across the glare shield (18 trios). You'll
> need a dimmer control capable of carrying
> 18 x .025 or 0.45 amps. This relatively
> low current draw makes the noise-free, linear
> regulators more attractive. Referring to this
> drawing
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ccrpzfa <http://tinyurl.com/ccrpzfa>
>
> You see the architecture for a dimmer set up for
> incandescent lamps. I.e. 4.5 volts minimum. For service
> with these strips, the minimum needs to be raised to
> 7.5 volts. Further, we want to fix the adjustment
> range at 7.5 - 12v or a delta-V of 3.5 volts.
>
> Since our stock "pot" is 2.5K, then to get 3.5
> volts dropped across the pot at max resistance,
> we need a divider current of 3.5/2500 or 1.4 milliamps.
>
> The voltage across the upper resistor is fixed at
> 1.25 volts by internal characteristics of the
> 317 regulator. 1.25V/0.0014A = 892 (910 ohms
> is close enough and a standard 5% value).
>
> Okay, with the pot at min resistance, we need
> 7.5 volts total output. (7.5 - 1.25)/0.0014
> equals 4464 ohms (4700 is also a standard
> value and sufficiently close).
>
> So, if you'd care to build your own dimmer the
> 390 ohm resistor is replaced with a 910 ohm
> resistor; the 910 ohm resistor is replaced with
> a 4700 ohm resistor. The TO220 plastic package
> version of the LM317 on a modicum of heatsink
> would be 'fat' enough and entirely free of noise.
>
> That 15-foot chunk of strip lighting for $20 is
> delivered toyour door at that price and is probably
> enough lighting to do 5 airplanes. I've copied B&C
> on this posting to see if they'd be interested in
> offering an LED strip light version of their DIM5-14
> product.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/dylkufj
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/dylkufj>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Dolphin Electrical Wire Connectors |
It might not have been intended as an April Fools joke, but it should
be. Those are "B" connectors, aka "beans" used by the telephone company
since the 1950s and intended for use in splicing telephone wires. They
do not work reliably for stranded wire. For their intended purpose,
which is joining *solid* conductors that don't ever move, they are fine
if you use the correct tool (formerly known as a "beaner.") I cannot
think of an airworthy use anywhere in an airplane (unless in your tool
bag going somewhere to fix a telephone line.)
On 4/1/13 11:58 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote:
> Time: 07:00:50 AM PST US
> From: "Owen Baker "<bakerocb@cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dolphin Electrical Wire Connectors
>
> 4/1/2013
>
> Hello Bob Nuckolls, It has been suggested that I use these Dolphin
> DC-100- P or -S insulation piercing type electrical wire connectors for
> low amperage wire connection usage, such as a Ray Allen trim servo, in
> my experimental amateur built airplane:
>
> http://dolphincomponents.com/catalogs/Section%20A%20-%20Super%20B%20stand
> ard-3207.pdf
>
> What do you think? Thank you.
>
> Owen C. Baker
>
> PS: This is not intended as an April Fools Day joke.
Message 8
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| Subject: | LED strip lighting for panels |
I'm doing exactly that in my plane using red LED's instead of white. I've
got them installed by not wired yet (been too cold at the hanger!). I'm pl
anning to use one of Eric's dimmers (http://www.periheliondesign.com/egpavr
.htm). I've tested the lights and dimmer in the shop and it all seems to w
ork well. I'll have to wait for some dark night to see how effective they
actually are in the plane. I'm actually more concerned about having too m
uch light. But so far it appears that I can dial it down far enough to not
overpower my night vision.
Paul A. Fisher
RV-7A N18PF
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr
ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 2:12 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LED strip lighting for panels
If your airplane has a glare shield, you can
consider the used of LED strip lights similar
to these.
http://tinyurl.com/c3wozbj
... snip ...
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: LED strip lighting for panels |
At 02:35 PM 4/2/2013, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>Do I understand correctly that you are controlling LED brightness by
>varying the voltage?
>
>My understanding was that a PWM was needed to dim LEDs. Of course,
>I've been wrong before. :>)
Not necessarily. The LED strip lights come with resistors
built in . . . these resistors combined with
minimum voltage necessary to get first light offers
an opportunity to dim either way. You wouldn't necessarily
want to do this to 'dim' high power leds . . . but the sum
total of power for a few feet of strip lets us consider
the linear, noise free option.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | LED strip lighting for panels |
I used very similar lighting strips in my RV7A. At the the time the only
place I found them was on Ebay from HongKong, but shipping was cheap. These
work well with a two channel dimmer I already had from Steinair. One
channel is used for the incandescent and the other for the LED strips as
they dim as a different rate. I'm very happy with the results and would
have bought from B n C if they stocked it.
I would also have bought the dropping resistors from B no for the wigwag
flasher but they don't stock them. nudge nudge.
Bevan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:12 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: LED strip lighting for panels
If your airplane has a glare shield, you can
consider the used of LED strip lights similar
to these.
http://tinyurl.com/c3wozbj
These strips are assembled from an array
of LED trios in series fitted with the appropriate
series resistor to provide max illumination with
12vdc applied. Each trio occupies about 2" of
length.
Three white lights in series do not begin to
output until applied voltage rises to 7.5 volts
or so. At 12 volts, each group of 3 lamps
(about 2" in length) draws about 25 milliamps.
Assume you need 36" of strip to stretch
across the glare shield (18 trios). You'll
need a dimmer control capable of carrying
18 x .025 or 0.45 amps. This relatively
low current draw makes the noise-free, linear
regulators more attractive. Referring to this
drawing
http://tinyurl.com/ccrpzfa
You see the architecture for a dimmer set up for
incandescent lamps. I.e. 4.5 volts minimum. For service
with these strips, the minimum needs to be raised to
7.5 volts. Further, we want to fix the adjustment
range at 7.5 - 12v or a delta-V of 3.5 volts.
Since our stock "pot" is 2.5K, then to get 3.5
volts dropped across the pot at max resistance,
we need a divider current of 3.5/2500 or 1.4 milliamps.
The voltage across the upper resistor is fixed at
1.25 volts by internal characteristics of the
317 regulator. 1.25V/0.0014A = 892 (910 ohms
is close enough and a standard 5% value).
Okay, with the pot at min resistance, we need
7.5 volts total output. (7.5 - 1.25)/0.0014
equals 4464 ohms (4700 is also a standard
value and sufficiently close).
So, if you'd care to build your own dimmer the
390 ohm resistor is replaced with a 910 ohm
resistor; the 910 ohm resistor is replaced with
a 4700 ohm resistor. The TO220 plastic package
version of the LM317 on a modicum of heatsink
would be 'fat' enough and entirely free of noise.
That 15-foot chunk of strip lighting for $20 is
delivered toyour door at that price and is probably
enough lighting to do 5 airplanes. I've copied B&C
on this posting to see if they'd be interested in
offering an LED strip light version of their DIM5-14
product.
http://tinyurl.com/dylkufj
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: LED strip lighting for panels |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III a crit :
> If your airplane has a glare shield, you can
> consider the used of LED strip lights similar
> to these.
Hi Bob and all,
Just for the fun, this is what we did.
(Hope attachments are allowed).
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
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