---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/02/13: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:57 AM - Ebus Diode (Andy) 2. 09:16 AM - Re: Ebus Diode (The Kuffels) 3. 10:22 AM - Re: Ebus Diode (Andy) 4. 11:16 AM - Re: Ebus Diode (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 12:14 PM - LED strip lighting for panels (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 12:35 PM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (rayj) 7. 12:39 PM - Re: Dolphin Electrical Wire Connectors (David Josephson) 8. 12:42 PM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (Fisher Paul A.) 9. 01:08 PM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 01:33 PM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (B Tomm) 11. 03:41 PM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (Gilles Thesee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:53 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ebus Diode From: Andy The drawing http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/Diode_Installation.pdf =46rom B and C shows both ~ (I don't have the correct symbol horizontal s wi th -) terminals powered from the main bus with the + going to the Ebus and - unused. Question: I could run power from the main bus to either ~ terminal and power the Ebus? Powering both ~ terminals gains a little redundancy to power the Ebus? Thanks, Andy Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:16:06 AM PST US From: "The Kuffels" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ebus Diode Andy, << Question: I could run power from the main bus to either ~ terminal and power the Ebus? >> Yes, but this misses the purpose of connecting both AC terminals (~) to the source. The package has 4 diodes. It is used everywhere as an AC to DC rectifier. In theory you could use one high current diode but the cost of the same capacity is much higher than the 4 diode package due to the very high economy of scale from the 4 diode configuration even though we are "wasting" diodes. The mounting for this package is also simpler. The main enemy of semiconductors is heat. With the connection to two divides in parallel the current between them is divided, not evenly divided but still shared between the two. This spreads out the heat generation which makes the device more robust. << Powering both ~ terminals gains a little redundancy to power the Ebus? >> As is hopefully explained above, the reason for using both ~ terminals is spreading out the heat generation, not redundancy. If you have an Ebus current of 15 amps, even if one diode carries 10 amps and the other only 5 amps, you are stressing the part less than having all 15 amps going through 1 diode. In other words, there is a good reason for connecting the source to both ~ terminals which is what you should do. Tom Kuffel ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:22:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ebus Diode From: Andy Great explanation! Thanks, Andy Sent from my iPhone On Apr 2, 2013, at 11:13 AM, "The Kuffels" wrote: > > Andy, > > << Question: I could run power from the main bus to either ~ terminal and power the Ebus? >> > > Yes, but this misses the purpose of connecting both AC terminals (~) to the source. The package has 4 diodes. It is used everywhere as an AC to DC rectifier. In theory you could use one high current diode but the cost of the same capacity is much higher than the 4 diode package due to the very high economy of scale from the 4 diode configuration even though we are "wasting" diodes. The mounting for this package is also simpler. > > The main enemy of semiconductors is heat. With the connection to two divides in parallel the current between them is divided, not evenly divided but still shared between the two. This spreads out the heat generation which makes the device more robust. > > << Powering both ~ terminals gains a little redundancy to power the Ebus? >> > > As is hopefully explained above, the reason for using both ~ terminals is spreading out the heat generation, not redundancy. If you have an Ebus current of 15 amps, even if one diode carries 10 amps and the other only 5 amps, you are stressing the part less than having all 15 amps going through 1 diode. In other words, there is a good reason for connecting the source to both ~ terminals which is what you should do. > > Tom Kuffel > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:04 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ebus Diode At 09:56 AM 4/2/2013, you wrote: >The drawing >http://www.bandc.biz/pdfs/Diode_Installation.pdf > From B and C shows both ~ (I don't have the correct symbol > horizontal s with -) terminals powered from the main bus with the + > going to the Ebus and - unused. >Question: I could run power from the main bus to either ~ terminal >and power the Ebus? >Powering both ~ terminals gains a little redundancy to power the Ebus? No 'redundancy' just a potential tiny improvement in thermal modeling. Not a big deal one way or another. Run main bus power to either one or both AC input terminals, one wire from (+) to e-bus. Bob . . . Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:25 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: LED strip lighting for panels If your airplane has a glare shield, you can consider the used of LED strip lights similar to these. http://tinyurl.com/c3wozbj These strips are assembled from an array of LED trios in series fitted with the appropriate series resistor to provide max illumination with 12vdc applied. Each trio occupies about 2" of length. Three white lights in series do not begin to output until applied voltage rises to 7.5 volts or so. At 12 volts, each group of 3 lamps (about 2" in length) draws about 25 milliamps. Assume you need 36" of strip to stretch across the glare shield (18 trios). You'll need a dimmer control capable of carrying 18 x .025 or 0.45 amps. This relatively low current draw makes the noise-free, linear regulators more attractive. Referring to this drawing http://tinyurl.com/ccrpzfa You see the architecture for a dimmer set up for incandescent lamps. I.e. 4.5 volts minimum. For service with these strips, the minimum needs to be raised to 7.5 volts. Further, we want to fix the adjustment range at 7.5 - 12v or a delta-V of 3.5 volts. Since our stock "pot" is 2.5K, then to get 3.5 volts dropped across the pot at max resistance, we need a divider current of 3.5/2500 or 1.4 milliamps. The voltage across the upper resistor is fixed at 1.25 volts by internal characteristics of the 317 regulator. 1.25V/0.0014A = 892 (910 ohms is close enough and a standard 5% value). Okay, with the pot at min resistance, we need 7.5 volts total output. (7.5 - 1.25)/0.0014 equals 4464 ohms (4700 is also a standard value and sufficiently close). So, if you'd care to build your own dimmer the 390 ohm resistor is replaced with a 910 ohm resistor; the 910 ohm resistor is replaced with a 4700 ohm resistor. The TO220 plastic package version of the LM317 on a modicum of heatsink would be 'fat' enough and entirely free of noise. That 15-foot chunk of strip lighting for $20 is delivered toyour door at that price and is probably enough lighting to do 5 airplanes. I've copied B&C on this posting to see if they'd be interested in offering an LED strip light version of their DIM5-14 product. http://tinyurl.com/dylkufj Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:47 PM PST US From: rayj Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED strip lighting for panels Bob, Do I understand correctly that you are controlling LED brightness by varying the voltage? My understanding was that a PWM was needed to dim LEDs. Of course, I've been wrong before. :>) Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. "And you know that I could have me a million more friends, and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine On 04/02/2013 02:12 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > If your airplane has a glare shield, you can > consider the used of LED strip lights similar > to these. > > http://tinyurl.com/c3wozbj > > These strips are assembled from an array > of LED trios in series fitted with the appropriate > series resistor to provide max illumination with > 12vdc applied. Each trio occupies about 2" of > length. > > Three white lights in series do not begin to > output until applied voltage rises to 7.5 volts > or so. At 12 volts, each group of 3 lamps > (about 2" in length) draws about 25 milliamps. > > Assume you need 36" of strip to stretch > across the glare shield (18 trios). You'll > need a dimmer control capable of carrying > 18 x .025 or 0.45 amps. This relatively > low current draw makes the noise-free, linear > regulators more attractive. Referring to this > drawing > > http://tinyurl.com/ccrpzfa > > You see the architecture for a dimmer set up for > incandescent lamps. I.e. 4.5 volts minimum. For service > with these strips, the minimum needs to be raised to > 7.5 volts. Further, we want to fix the adjustment > range at 7.5 - 12v or a delta-V of 3.5 volts. > > Since our stock "pot" is 2.5K, then to get 3.5 > volts dropped across the pot at max resistance, > we need a divider current of 3.5/2500 or 1.4 milliamps. > > The voltage across the upper resistor is fixed at > 1.25 volts by internal characteristics of the > 317 regulator. 1.25V/0.0014A = 892 (910 ohms > is close enough and a standard 5% value). > > Okay, with the pot at min resistance, we need > 7.5 volts total output. (7.5 - 1.25)/0.0014 > equals 4464 ohms (4700 is also a standard > value and sufficiently close). > > So, if you'd care to build your own dimmer the > 390 ohm resistor is replaced with a 910 ohm > resistor; the 910 ohm resistor is replaced with > a 4700 ohm resistor. The TO220 plastic package > version of the LM317 on a modicum of heatsink > would be 'fat' enough and entirely free of noise. > > That 15-foot chunk of strip lighting for $20 is > delivered toyour door at that price and is probably > enough lighting to do 5 airplanes. I've copied B&C > on this posting to see if they'd be interested in > offering an LED strip light version of their DIM5-14 > product. > > http://tinyurl.com/dylkufj > > > > Bob . . . > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:46 PM PST US From: David Josephson Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dolphin Electrical Wire Connectors It might not have been intended as an April Fools joke, but it should be. Those are "B" connectors, aka "beans" used by the telephone company since the 1950s and intended for use in splicing telephone wires. They do not work reliably for stranded wire. For their intended purpose, which is joining *solid* conductors that don't ever move, they are fine if you use the correct tool (formerly known as a "beaner.") I cannot think of an airworthy use anywhere in an airplane (unless in your tool bag going somewhere to fix a telephone line.) On 4/1/13 11:58 PM, AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: > Time: 07:00:50 AM PST US > From: "Owen Baker " > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dolphin Electrical Wire Connectors > > 4/1/2013 > > Hello Bob Nuckolls, It has been suggested that I use these Dolphin > DC-100- P or -S insulation piercing type electrical wire connectors for > low amperage wire connection usage, such as a Ray Allen trim servo, in > my experimental amateur built airplane: > > http://dolphincomponents.com/catalogs/Section%20A%20-%20Super%20B%20stand > ard-3207.pdf > > What do you think? Thank you. > > Owen C. Baker > > PS: This is not intended as an April Fools Day joke. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:22 PM PST US From: "Fisher Paul A." Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: LED strip lighting for panels I'm doing exactly that in my plane using red LED's instead of white. I've got them installed by not wired yet (been too cold at the hanger!). I'm pl anning to use one of Eric's dimmers (http://www.periheliondesign.com/egpavr .htm). I've tested the lights and dimmer in the shop and it all seems to w ork well. I'll have to wait for some dark night to see how effective they actually are in the plane. I'm actually more concerned about having too m uch light. But so far it appears that I can dial it down far enough to not overpower my night vision. Paul A. Fisher RV-7A N18PF From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectr ic-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 2:12 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: LED strip lighting for panels If your airplane has a glare shield, you can consider the used of LED strip lights similar to these. http://tinyurl.com/c3wozbj ... snip ... ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:05 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED strip lighting for panels At 02:35 PM 4/2/2013, you wrote: >Bob, > >Do I understand correctly that you are controlling LED brightness by >varying the voltage? > >My understanding was that a PWM was needed to dim LEDs. Of course, >I've been wrong before. :>) Not necessarily. The LED strip lights come with resistors built in . . . these resistors combined with minimum voltage necessary to get first light offers an opportunity to dim either way. You wouldn't necessarily want to do this to 'dim' high power leds . . . but the sum total of power for a few feet of strip lets us consider the linear, noise free option. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:17 PM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: LED strip lighting for panels I used very similar lighting strips in my RV7A. At the the time the only place I found them was on Ebay from HongKong, but shipping was cheap. These work well with a two channel dimmer I already had from Steinair. One channel is used for the incandescent and the other for the LED strips as they dim as a different rate. I'm very happy with the results and would have bought from B n C if they stocked it. I would also have bought the dropping resistors from B no for the wigwag flasher but they don't stock them. nudge nudge. Bevan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 12:12 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: LED strip lighting for panels If your airplane has a glare shield, you can consider the used of LED strip lights similar to these. http://tinyurl.com/c3wozbj These strips are assembled from an array of LED trios in series fitted with the appropriate series resistor to provide max illumination with 12vdc applied. Each trio occupies about 2" of length. Three white lights in series do not begin to output until applied voltage rises to 7.5 volts or so. At 12 volts, each group of 3 lamps (about 2" in length) draws about 25 milliamps. Assume you need 36" of strip to stretch across the glare shield (18 trios). You'll need a dimmer control capable of carrying 18 x .025 or 0.45 amps. This relatively low current draw makes the noise-free, linear regulators more attractive. Referring to this drawing http://tinyurl.com/ccrpzfa You see the architecture for a dimmer set up for incandescent lamps. I.e. 4.5 volts minimum. For service with these strips, the minimum needs to be raised to 7.5 volts. Further, we want to fix the adjustment range at 7.5 - 12v or a delta-V of 3.5 volts. Since our stock "pot" is 2.5K, then to get 3.5 volts dropped across the pot at max resistance, we need a divider current of 3.5/2500 or 1.4 milliamps. The voltage across the upper resistor is fixed at 1.25 volts by internal characteristics of the 317 regulator. 1.25V/0.0014A = 892 (910 ohms is close enough and a standard 5% value). Okay, with the pot at min resistance, we need 7.5 volts total output. (7.5 - 1.25)/0.0014 equals 4464 ohms (4700 is also a standard value and sufficiently close). So, if you'd care to build your own dimmer the 390 ohm resistor is replaced with a 910 ohm resistor; the 910 ohm resistor is replaced with a 4700 ohm resistor. The TO220 plastic package version of the LM317 on a modicum of heatsink would be 'fat' enough and entirely free of noise. That 15-foot chunk of strip lighting for $20 is delivered toyour door at that price and is probably enough lighting to do 5 airplanes. I've copied B&C on this posting to see if they'd be interested in offering an LED strip light version of their DIM5-14 product. http://tinyurl.com/dylkufj Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:24 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED strip lighting for panels Robert L. Nuckolls, III a crit : > If your airplane has a glare shield, you can > consider the used of LED strip lights similar > to these. Hi Bob and all, Just for the fun, this is what we did. (Hope attachments are allowed). Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.