---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/25/13: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:58 AM - Re: Re: Which crimper for Big AWG's on both HB *and* Certified? (Harley) 2. 06:08 AM - Re: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 06:16 AM - Re: Wire sizes to E-Bus? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 06:29 AM - Re: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A (Eric M. Jones) 5. 06:36 AM - Re: LED strip lighting for panels (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:43 AM - Re: Mic jack problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 06:50 AM - Re: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 07:00 AM - Re: Shorai Battery Review (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 08:27 AM - Re: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A (Jeff Page) 10. 08:59 AM - Re: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A (Jay Hyde) 11. 10:25 AM - Radio interference (robintaylor) 12. 02:17 PM - Master / Starter Relay (Peter Pengilly) 13. 02:38 PM - Re: Master / Starter Relay (Peter Pengilly) 14. 02:50 PM - Re: Master / Starter Relay (Peter Pengilly) 15. 03:06 PM - Re: Master / Starter Relay (jan) 16. 05:14 PM - Re: Radio interference (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:10 AM PST US From: Harley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Which crimper for Big AWG's on both HB *and* Certified? I used the HF crimper as well...had no problems, and as Bob said, just pick the dies that fit the wire and terminal you are working with, ignoring the numbers on them. If the crimp doesn't look good enough, just go to the next smaller size. Harley Dixon Long EZ N28EZ Canandaigua, NY ----------------------------------------------------------------- On 4/24/2013 9:29 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > > Bill, > > OK, I'll weight in. > > That HF crimper works quite well. No special associated terminal is needed. Just make sure the terminal properly fits the wire size. And ignore the sizes marked on the tool, they lie. Just pick a set of jaws that fit the wire and lug in use. > > FWIW, I used Perihelion CCA lightweight Fat Wire and the associated Perihelion connection lugs. Works great, less weight. > > Periheliondesign.com or periheliondesign.com/fatwires.htm > > Blue skies & tailwinds, > Bob Borger > Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop. > Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP > 3705 Lynchburg Dr. > Corinth, TX 76208-5331 > Cel: 817-992-1117 > rlborger@mac.com > > On Apr 24, 2013, at 8:11 PM, Builder_Bill wrote: > > > Yeah, I've seen that TT-500 (or maybe the previous version of it) at SteinAir maybe. > > As for HF, leave it the them to produce a hydraulic crimper south of $1000, way south [Shocked] . LOL. > > Am I wrong to expect that an airworthy crimp tool should have a strict association with a line of terminals [Rolling Eyes] . As with Amp/Tyco Crimpers & AMP PIDG terminals. > > Neither of these two tools (TT-500 & HF) advertise a matched brand of terminals, or do they? > Or an I'm brain washed by the Mil Specs and Standards Groups? :? > > Between the two, I lean toward the TT-500, but with a local HF just 1 mile from me, now I have to go see what $60 in HF $ looks/feels like. > > > Maybe others can weigh in. > > Bill Jones > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:54 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A At 03:36 PM 4/24/2013, you wrote: > >A friend of mine has a requirement to power a laptop requiring 15.6V >at 5A from an aircraft with a 28V system. > >This unit is almost what is needed, but the spec is only 4A. >http://www.lonestaraviation.com/Step-Down-Converter-24v-to-16v.html > >Is anyone aware of a similar product with a little more power capability ? These show some promise. You might find that they need to be packaged in a larger enclosure to accommodate some RFI filtering. http://tinyurl.com/a9bhfqn http://tinyurl.com/axlv3ex http://tinyurl.com/bbylscr http://tinyurl.com/a5ncthf http://tinyurl.com/apxepbq Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:09 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wire sizes to E-Bus? At 04:38 PM 4/21/2013, you wrote: > >I am working with Bob's Z-13/8 and I am confused about the wire size >between the main -> e-bus. In the drawing he has it as 20AWG. This >seems way to small to me to power the e-bus. > >In my scenario, my load diagram shows the e-bus loads can reach 25A. >Am I correct in thinking this wire should be 12AWG instead? > >Also, the wire from my Batt. bus to the E-Bus is 14AWG on my >schematic, should that also be 12AWG? > >Thanks for the clarification... > >- Matt\ The Z-figures are ARCHITECTURE drawings, not wiring diagrams for any specific task. A load analysis using your specific constellation of accessories will set system loads and wire sizes which may indeed be different than 'suggestions' on the architecture drawings. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:30 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A From: "Eric M. Jones" I always recommend Astrodyne power supplies for these in experimental aircraft. Their similar supplies are $75. There are bunches of laptop supplies from 12V (cigar lighter type) but not many from 28V. I have made a couple of these in linear form (no RFI noise), completely adjustable, 10-37V input. See attached. -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones(at)charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399350#399350 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/5a_avr_168.pdf ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:47 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED strip lighting for panels At 03:18 PM 4/23/2013, you wrote: >Hi Bob: > >After talking with you on the phone and >receiving this e-mail from you, I ordered the >LED strip and a couple of dimmer switches from B >& C. Then I saw something in your e-mail that >didn=99t quite look right and that was the delta >voltage you mentioned between the 7.5v and the >12 volt is 3.5 volts. Actually it=99s 4.5 >volts. Now, I=99m not very smart when it comes >to electronics but, based on your calculations >in your e-mail that changes the value of the >resistors needed to remodel the dimmer. You >mentioned several resistors of standard value to >use based on your calculations, should I still >use them? Or, do I need to change to something >different? Appreciate your help! Good catch my friend! Yes. You'll have to adjust the resistors to achieve the desired response from the potentiometer. The first electronic dimmer I was asked to replace for a customer was a classic potentiometer voltage divider driving an emitter follower transistor on a big heatsink. Playing with the thing on the bench showed that the bottom 40% or so of pot travel didn't do anything. Voltage to the lamps in this area was too low to produce visible light. I think I might have been the first supplier to consider adding resistance in the bottom of the voltage divider to set MAX CCW voltage a just below visible light output from the lamps . . . about 4-5 volts as I recall. This also kept the lamps 'warm' while 'off' so that the filaments are more immune to vibration and inrush fatigue. Your task is a bit different in that multiple LED junctions in series raises the MAX CCW voltage for minimal light output considerably. Suggest you fiddle with your setup on the bench and arrive at component values appropriate to your own design goals. I just received a couple spools of strip lights yesterday. I'm going to use a mulit-colored, programmable strip to add attention grabbing lights to outside of my son's shaved ice concession trailer . . . and a couple more spools to augment interior lighting. This is pretty handy stuff. Take the calculations I did and plug in correct numbers. Let the List know what values meet your design goals. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Mic jack problem At 05:01 PM 4/24/2013, you wrote: >Mr Nuckolls- > >If you please I'm having the devil of a time >trying to get my mic to work. I'm putting in an >intercom (PS Engineering PM 1200) in a T-6=85 it >has an audio panel. For some odd reason I >elected to use the current jacks for the >intercom and put together a new set for AUX and >connecting the intercom with the audio panel/airplane. Not sure I have the correct mental image based on your words. The AUX mic depicted in the PS1200 manual Emacs! . . . is intended to offer access to your ship's transmitter by the microphone even if the intercom system is broke. This jack bypasses the intercom and lets your mic talk to the transmitter directly. You'll have to give me a complete wiring diagram of what you've installed before I'll be able to herd the electrons. >My problem is that I can't get the mic to work >through the AUX jacks. The Headphone audio works >fine, the PTT circuit works, you can hear the >carrier and someone on an external radio reports >a strong carrier being transmitted=85. but the mic >does not open, nothing gets transmitted other >than the carrier. I've tried just about >everything, even to the point of reversing the >wires thinking I screwed up the Tip/Ring/Ground >tracking. I just cannot get the mic to work=85.. >do you have any suggestions for me? If you already have an audio panel, did it include microphone wiring and feature a transmitter select switch too? What kind of audio panel? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:31 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A At 12:56 AM 4/25/2013, you wrote: > >I would venture that the 4A product would do the trick; laptops do >not draw that much current- my laptop power supply is rated at 19V 3.16A. > >Johannesburg Jay The wattage requirements tend to be constant. If his battery is nominally lower in voltage than the common 19 volt devices, then the current requirements might reasonably be expected to go up proportionally. But even the rated current values are 'max' numbers that probably assume that the user is charging a depleted battery while attempting to use the computer. I have a 14v to 19v boost regulator for use in our cars. I've measured some sustained 4+ amp draws during worst case demands . . . but normal computer usage with a fully charged battery is much less . . . more like 2.2 amps. Larger step-down devices are readily available but may need some attention to noise issues for use on the airplane . . . Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A At 03:36 PM 4/24/2013, you wrote: > >A friend of mine has a requirement to power a laptop requiring 15.6V >at 5A from an aircraft with a 28V system. > >This unit is almost what is needed, but the spec is only 4A. >http://www.lonestaraviation.com/Step-Down-Converter-24v-to-16v.html > >Is anyone aware of a similar product with a little more power capability ? These show some promise. You might find that they need to be packaged in a larger enclosure to accommodate some RFI filtering. http://tinyurl.com/a9bhfqn http://tinyurl.com/axlv3ex http://tinyurl.com/bbylscr http://tinyurl.com/a5ncthf http://tinyurl.com/apxepbq Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:38 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Shorai Battery Review At 08:57 PM 4/22/2013, you wrote: >Bob, Haven't been on the list for a while and have forgotten how to post. Just send a message to aeroelectric-list@matroics.com This will start a new thread of discussion with what ever topic you put on the subject line . . . > I have read all the posts on the Shorai batteries and was > wondering if you have additional opinions as to whether they would > be suitable in OBAM aircraft since Boeing has "solved" the Lithium > Ion problems on the 787s. Actually, Boeing has not solved the Li-Ion battery problem, they've only contained it. The batteries are to be enclosed in a titanium box with vents appropriate to expel the products of combustion assuming that one or more cells goes into catastrophic self destruction. I spent a good part of yesterday with Skip Koss and crew who were representing Concord at a convention in Wichita. Seems that the major players have given up trying to quantify reliability numbers for the cells and have elected to apply a lot of electronic monitoring and control for managing charge and discharge profiles of individual cells while closely monitoring temperatures. It's a case of adding very complex electronic housekeeping to robust containment for what started out to be a simple one-for-one replacement of legacy Ni-Cad/Lead-Acid with Li-Ion. Pundits in the know are now predicting that a positive return on investment for Boeing's shift to Li-Ion is decades out . . . if ever. The Shorai offering is a study in contradictions. On one hand, the batteries are offered as drop in replacement for legacy battery products wherein responsibility for managing the charge and discharge profiles are NOT tailored to the product. At the same time, each battery is fitted with a 5 pin maintenance port to accommodate a specialty charger. Literature for the battery says: **Note:The Shorai LFX battery may not be used with a lead-acid battery charger with an automatic desulfation mode that cannot be disabled. We recommend the Shorai LFX Battery Charger to properly charge and perform cell diagnostics on this high performance battery, or the MotoStance MS1000 Battery Charger. This is the first time I've seen any mention of "desulfation" features being undesirable in the context of Li-Ion discussions. I've not read any convincing discussion on the effectiveness of special desulfation processes added to chargers or maintainers. Desulfation technologies are a mixed bag . . . and I'm not sure they're even applicable to anything other than abusive, deep-discharge service. The well cared for aircraft battery NEVER gets deep discharged. It coughs up 2% of contained energy to start an engine . . . hundreds of times . . . but is immediately serviced by a working alternator. Conditions favorable to lead-sulfate crystal growth are weak. In one breath, the Li-Ion guys talk about their specialized chargers designed to get the most from their product . . . in the next breath, they say the product is a drop-in replacement for an SVLA battery that receives less than specialized charging from an alternator-regulator that might not even be adjustable! The Shorai LFX charger offers the ultimate pampering of the battery while a MotoStance MS1000 is just an SVLA charger/maintainer . . . I'm westling with the logic that says they can have it both ways. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:54 AM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A Jay, I agree that most of the time the laptop would draw less than four amps. However, if the laptop battery is quite low, it will draw more power trying to charge it and might reach the current draw specified on the bottom of the laptop. If there are no alternatives, I will try to get one of their laptops and measure it. However, if there is a similar product available with a little more output, that would be the best thing to do. Jeff > From: "Jay Hyde" > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A > > > I would venture that the 4A product would do the trick; laptops do > not draw that > much current- my laptop power supply is rated at 19V 3.16A. > > Johannesburg Jay ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:45 AM PST US From: "Jay Hyde" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A Hey there Jeff, I agree; my opinion was ventured on the basis that the other product might be difficult to find and/or get your hands on- probably more of an issue here in SA than in the USA. In that case the current draw might be high for a while, if the battery was flat, but lower later. Then one might be able to work within those limits- for example, make sure that your battery is properly charged before flight and the power supply then only supplies top up power. I also agree with Bob regarding the higher current draw for lower voltage given the same power (W) requirement - basic electrical theory. Looking at my laptop power supply and using transformer theory as a rough calculation estimate my laptop would draw 3.9A at 15.5V. Not ideal, but if the product you sourced was all that you had to hand, odds are it would be fine. Throw in some usage parameters (take a charged laptop on board) and you'd most likely never have a problem. But of course, in the land of the big PX ;-) you can just get the right bit... We can get them here too, but its a pain in the butt, you will probably have to wait longer and it'll cost more. Nice almost relevant story: My mate was commissioning plant in Tanzania and needed some resistors which would have been difficult and time consuming to order from there- and then you'd have to wait for delivery (just 10 were required). There is a large bit of plant waiting and your client is hounding you- and your company will be hit with penalties for lateness. Solution- go and buy a couple of cheap battery powered radios that abound in the small general dealers and source your resisters off their boards.... Johannesburg Jay -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Page Sent: 25 April 2013 05:26 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A Jay, I agree that most of the time the laptop would draw less than four amps. However, if the laptop battery is quite low, it will draw more power trying to charge it and might reach the current draw specified on the bottom of the laptop. If there are no alternatives, I will try to get one of their laptops and measure it. However, if there is a similar product available with a little more output, that would be the best thing to do. Jeff > From: "Jay Hyde" > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A > > > I would venture that the 4A product would do the trick; laptops do not > draw that much current- my laptop power supply is rated at 19V 3.16A. > > Johannesburg Jay ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:09 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio interference From: "robintaylor" I am getting radio interference which seems to be from the alternator. I am flight testing my homebuilt RV9A. It has a new Lycoming O320 engine which has a Plane Power AL12 alternator. The interference is a pulse or beep at an interval of about two per second. Its interval changes with the engine speed and it ceases when the alternator is disabled. Please can you suggest the cause and a solution. RobinT :( Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399371#399371 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:34 PM PST US From: Peter Pengilly Subject: AeroElectric-List: Master / Starter Relay Does anyone have any thoughts on the suitability of these devices from Tyco for our applications, although may be a little expensive (70 = $110, both + tax)? How are they supposed to be mounted? http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity/v23130c2021a412/relay-battery-disconnect-12v/dp/1770635 http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/477184.pdf Looks like it already has diodes installed. If the coil has a resistance of 4.7 ohms, will this pull 3 amps continuously? Connector is here http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-amp/184046-1/housing-plug-ssc-a-key-4-way/dp/2309162?ref=lookahead http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1697200.pdf Peter ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:30 PM PST US From: Peter Pengilly Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master / Starter Relay Perhaps this is better as a master relay - mounting lugs included, current draw is around 0.4A, cost is 50, $77 http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1670678.pdf On 25/04/2013 22:14, Peter Pengilly wrote: > > > Does anyone have any thoughts on the suitability of these devices from > Tyco for our applications, although may be a little expensive (70 = > $110, both + tax)? How are they supposed to be mounted? > > http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity/v23130c2021a412/relay-battery-disconnect-12v/dp/1770635 > > > http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/477184.pdf > > Looks like it already has diodes installed. > If the coil has a resistance of 4.7 ohms, will this pull 3 amps > continuously? > > Connector is here > > http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-amp/184046-1/housing-plug-ssc-a-key-4-way/dp/2309162?ref=lookahead > > > http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1697200.pdf > > > Peter > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:37 PM PST US From: Peter Pengilly Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master / Starter Relay 2nd try, this is the 12v version, 62 = $96, requires 0.3A hold on current. http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity/v23132a2001b200/relay-high-current-150a-12v/dp/2076581 Peter On 25/04/2013 22:14, Peter Pengilly wrote: > > > Does anyone have any thoughts on the suitability of these devices from > Tyco for our applications, although may be a little expensive (70 = > $110, both + tax)? How are they supposed to be mounted? > > http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity/v23130c2021a412/relay-battery-disconnect-12v/dp/1770635 > > > http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/477184.pdf > > Looks like it already has diodes installed. > If the coil has a resistance of 4.7 ohms, will this pull 3 amps > continuously? > > Connector is here > > http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-amp/184046-1/housing-plug-ssc-a-key-4-way/dp/2309162?ref=lookahead > > > http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1697200.pdf > > > Peter > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:04 PM PST US From: jan Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Master / Starter Relay Very modern and expensive (We use Tyco at work ..all good stuff) ... but what is wrong with $ 20,- from Vans ? http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi?ident=1366927288-350-189&brows e=electrical&product=master-sw Jan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Pengilly Sent: 25 April 2013 22:48 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Master / Starter Relay 2nd try, this is the 12v version, 62 = $96, requires 0.3A hold on current. http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity/v23132a2001b200/relay-high-current-150 a-12v/dp/2076581 Peter On 25/04/2013 22:14, Peter Pengilly wrote: > > > Does anyone have any thoughts on the suitability of these devices from > Tyco for our applications, although may be a little expensive (70 = > $110, both + tax)? How are they supposed to be mounted? > > http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity/v23130c2021a412/relay-battery-disconne ct-12v/dp/1770635 > > > http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/477184.pdf > > Looks like it already has diodes installed. > If the coil has a resistance of 4.7 ohms, will this pull 3 amps > continuously? > > Connector is here > > http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-amp/184046-1/housing-plug-ssc-a-key-4- way/dp/2309162?ref=lookahead > > > http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1697200.pdf > > > Peter > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio interference At 12:21 PM 4/25/2013, you wrote: > > >I am getting radio interference which seems to be from the alternator. >I am flight testing my homebuilt RV9A. It has a new Lycoming O320 >engine which has a Plane Power AL12 alternator. >The interference is a pulse or beep at an interval of about two per >second. Its interval changes with the engine speed and it ceases >when the alternator is disabled. >Please can you suggest the cause and a solution. >RobinT :( Does the noise get louder if you turn everything on and/or softer with everything but the radio off? Can you describe your ground system for us? Bob . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.