Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:38 AM - Re: Master / Starter Relay (Eric M. Jones)
2. 06:30 AM - Re: Re: Master / Starter Relay (Bill Bradburry)
3. 08:59 AM - Re: Re: Master / Starter Relay (Holger Selover-Stephan)
4. 09:37 AM - Re: Fw: Putting two batteries in parallel (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 09:39 AM - Re: Master / Starter Relay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:41 AM - Re: Master / Starter Relay (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Master / Starter Relay (Ed Holyoke)
8. 11:44 AM - Re: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A (Jeff Page)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Master / Starter Relay |
> Very modern and expensive We use Tyco at work ..all good stuff ... but
> what is wrong with $ 20,- from Vans?
The $20 Type 70 contactor has been used for years. It might be okay for some applications,
but there have been great strides in designing contactors. I often
recommend the Kilovac EV200, the Gigavac GX-11, or NO CONTACTORS AT ALL (Use
a remote battery switch from Flaming River) but there are many good choices.
The Type 70 is rated at 122 degress F, is not sealed, not fuel proof, G-sensitive,
requires external diodes (use Bidir Zeners!) and is less than ideal in other
respects.
But it is cheap.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399419#399419
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Master / Starter Relay |
And has been used with no real problem in aircraft for about a hundred
years!
If you glue dollar bills to the sides of the fuselage, it will make the
fuselage a little stronger... :>)
B2
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric M.
Jones
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 8:37 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Master / Starter Relay
<emjones@charter.net>
> Very modern and expensive We use Tyco at work ..all good stuff ... but
> what is wrong with $ 20,- from Vans?
The $20 Type 70 contactor has been used for years. It might be okay for some
applications, but there have been great strides in designing contactors. I
often recommend the Kilovac EV200, the Gigavac GX-11, or NO CONTACTORS AT
ALL (Use a remote battery switch from Flaming River) but there are many good
choices.
The Type 70 is rated at 122 degress F, is not sealed, not fuel proof,
G-sensitive, requires external diodes (use Bidir Zeners!) and is less than
ideal in other respects.
But it is cheap.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=399419#399419
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Master / Starter Relay |
On Apr 26, 2013, at 6:29 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote:
> If you glue dollar bills to the sides of the fuselage, it will make the
> fuselage a little stronger... :>)
Interesting. From a structural standpoint, which bill is recommended: $1, $20,
$50, ...? Probably the higher ones, you get what you pay for?
Holger
PS: Plugged my 40W LED landing light into the cigarette lighter on a flight the
other day, and there was no RF noise. More tests needed.
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Fwd: Putting two batteries in parallel |
>I,m very excited to have a book like yours to refer to when it comes
>to electrical airplanes. I have a couple of questions that I hope
>that you can clarify for me.
Thank you, I'll try . . .
>
>First: I'm one of those that thought that two batteries in
>parallel will drain the higher one until both are at equal voltages
>(kinda like air pressure tanks).
No. Batteries CHARGE at 13.5 and above. Batteries
DELIVER at 12.5 and below. Hence, a battery cannot
charge another battery of same voltage.
> The question is, when one battery has a shorted cell, will the
> other battery not drain through the shorted cells in the bad
> battery? This problem was one of the possible causes for Mr.
> Gomez. I do understand that this is rare. Is it an idea to use a
> diode from each battery so they do not feed into each other? Or is
> this not necessary.
No, with a properly maintained battery . . . in
particular an SVLA battery . . . shorted cells
are so rare as to be insignificant in terms
of system reliability studies.
>
>Second: As per Figure 17-4, would you have the regulator for the
>SD-8 set lower than the main regulator so that it will not take all
>the load if both alternators were switched on together?
No, an SD-8 is not intended to run simultaneously
with a larger alternator. The SD-8 is a stand-by
alternator held in quiescent reserve until needed.
>Third: You mentioned that alternators do not run well without a
>battery. How possible is it to use an alternator by itself or with
>a shorted battery? Could you use the aux alternator with this
>back-up from TCW
>Technologies: <http://www.tcwtech.com/IBBS.htm>http://www.tcwtech.com/IBBS.htm
If an alternator is up and running during a
battery contactor failure . . . it will continue
to power the airplane transparently to the pilot.
There is risk that an alternator not supported by
a battery can be 'stalled' with application of a
large load transient . . . like landing gear pump
motor. But unless your airplane's electro-whizzies
are capable of producing such transients, the concern
is insignificant.
If you have dual, battery powered, electronic ignition
and single alternator, a second battery will improve system
reliability numbers. Figure Z-13/8 has about
everything you'll ever need . . . but without the
added cost of ownership for a second battery.
Ignition products like P-Mags also eliminate any
need for multiple batteries.
In any case, factoring a 'shorted battery' into
your Failure Mode Effects Analysis is not productive.
Plan active notification of low volts, considered
preventative maintenance of your battery and a
Plan-B tailored to your system demands for continued
flight to airport of intended destination.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Master / Starter Relay |
At 04:14 PM 4/25/2013, you wrote:
>Pengilly <peter@sportingaero.com>
>
>Does anyone have any thoughts on the suitability
>of these devices from Tyco for our applications,
>although may be a little expensive (70 = $110,
>both + tax)? How are they supposed to be mounted?
>
>http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity/v23130c2021a412/relay-battery-disconnect-12v/dp/1770635
This is a BI-STABLE relay. Energize one coil to close
it; energize the other coil to open it. This calls
for a new paradigm in battery master switches.
It's a fine product. My first question would explore
expected return on investment for the purchase and installation
of such a device.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Master / Starter Relay |
At 04:14 PM 4/25/2013, you wrote:
>Pengilly <peter@sportingaero.com>
>
>Does anyone have any thoughts on the suitability
>of these devices from Tyco for our applications,
>although may be a little expensive (=A370 = $110,
>both + tax)? How are they supposed to be mounted?
>
>http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity/v23130c2021a412/relay-battery-disconn
ect-12v/dp/1770635
This is a BI-STABLE relay. Energize one coil to close
it; energize the other coil to open it. This calls
for a new paradigm in battery master switches.
It's a fine product. My first question would explore
expected return on investment for the purchase and installation
of such a device.
P.S. This product would perform well as a BATTERY contactor
but poorly as a STARTER contactor.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Master / Starter Relay |
The linen in them might make for a decent phenolic, properly laminated.
I don't think the denomination will matter much. ;-)
Ed
On 4/26/2013 8:57 AM, Holger Selover-Stephan wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Holger Selover-Stephan<holger-d@shadowbrush.com>
>
>
> On Apr 26, 2013, at 6:29 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote:
>
>> If you glue dollar bills to the sides of the fuselage, it will make the
>> fuselage a little stronger... :>)
>
> Interesting. From a structural standpoint, which bill is recommended: $1, $20,
$50, ...? Probably the higher ones, you get what you pay for?
>
> Holger
>
> PS: Plugged my 40W LED landing light into the cigarette lighter on a flight the
other day, and there was no RF noise. More tests needed.
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: 28V to 15.6V @ 5A |
Wow - lots of possibilities, far less expensive than the TSO unit I
was looking at.
Astrodyne has some very promising products, that are burnt in and have
noise filtering built-in. I am going to suggest to him that we get
one of these and try it out. Thanks Eric !
Bob - you found some interesting items too. Seller kuuco has some
that I may purchase just to play with.
Jay - I enjoyed your story. Even in Toronto, where everything is
available, sometimes that is the cheapest way to obtain a part :-)
Thanks everyone.
Jeff Page
Dream Aircraft Tundra #10
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