AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 05/19/13


Total Messages Posted: 5



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 03:10 AM - Re: Lithium Ion Battery for OBAM aircraft pr 	oject (jan)
     2. 08:19 AM - Re: Z13/8 all electric airplane (jonlaury)
     3. 10:05 AM - Re: Re: Z13/8 all electric airplane (Bob McCallum)
     4. 11:20 AM - Re: Lithium Ion Battery for OBAM aircraft pr 	oject (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Z13/8 all electric airplane (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 03:10:38 AM PST US
    From: jan <jan@CLAVER.DEMON.CO.UK>
    Subject: Lithium Ion Battery for OBAM aircraft pr oject
    Hi Bob, I am going to the US next month for 2 weeks with work - was thinking of picking up a copy of your book. From a previous post - I noted that you are working on a 'complete update' - (or maybe I got this wrong ??) .. If a new book will be available - will it be so in time for my visit ?? I am going to Kansas Have a good weekend ! Jan _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: 11 May 2013 23:56 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium Ion Battery for OBAM aircraft project I believe that they mean UL1642. http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/scopes.asp?fn=1642.html <http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/scopes.asp?fn=1642.html> Could be. Thanks. I'll see if I can track down either one . . . Bob . . . <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution> <html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"/> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} pre {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New";} span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> </head> <body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue> <div class=Section1> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hi <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Bob</st1:PersonName>,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I am going to the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region> next month for 2 weeks with work &#8211; was thinking of picking up a copy of your book. From a previous post &#8211; I noted that you are working on a &#8216;complete update&#8217; &#8211; (or maybe I got this wrong ??) ..<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If a new book will be available &#8211; will it be so in time for my visit ??&nbsp; I am going to <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Kansas</st1:place></st1:State><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Have a good weekend !<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p> <div> <div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1> </span></font></div> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Robert L. Nuckolls, III<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 11 May 2013 23:56<br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">aeroelectric-list@matronics.com</st1:PersonName><br> <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: AeroElectric-List: Lithium Ion Battery for OBAM aircraft project</span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p> <blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'> <p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-weight:bold'><br> </span></font></b>I believe that they mean UL1642.<br> &nbsp;<br> <a href="http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/scopes.asp?fn=1642.htm l">http://ulstandardsinfonet.ul.com/scopes/scopes.asp?fn=1642.html</a> <o:p></o:p></p> </blockquote> <p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size: 12.0pt'><br> &nbsp; Could be. Thanks.&nbsp; I'll see if I can track down<br> &nbsp; either one . . .<br> <br> <br> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <x-sigsep> <p></x-sigsep><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Bob</st1:PersonName> . . . <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size: 10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></b> </pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; font-weight:bold'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; ======================== ==================<o:p></o:p></span> </font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; nbsp; - The AeroElectric-List Email Forum -<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; browse<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; Un/Subscription,<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; Chat, FAQ,<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; more:<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color :black; href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List</a><o:p></o:p></span></font> </b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; ======================== ==================<o:p></o:p></span> </font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; Forums!<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a><o:p ></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; ======================== ==================<o:p></o:p></span> </font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; - List Contribution Web Site -<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; support!<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;& nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.<o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ contribution</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; ======================== ==================<o:p></o:p></span> </font></b></pre><pre><b><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black; font-weight:bold'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></b></pre></div> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> </b></font></pre></body></html>


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:19:44 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Z13/8 all electric airplane
    From: "jonlaury" <jonlaury@impulse.net>
    [/quote] yep, here's a thread from 2008... Bob . . . [quote] Bob, My question was less about electron directional flow than it was about the fellow's intention to connect the switch/breaker to GND. Unless he is switching/breaking the GND to control the alternator field, which I thought in most instances was bad practice, isn't he wiring up a dead short that will trip the breaker everytime the alt field is switched on? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400944#400944


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:05:42 AM PST US
    From: Bob McCallum <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: Re: Z13/8 all electric airplane
    Jon; Did you look at schematic Z13/8 to see what is being discussed?? There is no "field" associated with the AUX alternator as it's a PM type. (Dynamo in the dwg) The schematic clearly shows the breaker and switch connected between the alternator "B" lead relay and ground. And yes, when the over voltage module operates it causes a direct short to ground through this breaker tripping it. Bob McC > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonlaury > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 11:19 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z13/8 all electric airplane > > > [/quote] > yep, here's a thread from 2008... > > > > Bob . . . [quote] > > Bob, > My question was less about electron directional flow than it was about the fellow's > intention to connect the switch/breaker to GND. Unless he is switching/breaking the > GND to control the alternator field, which I thought in most instances was bad > practice, isn't he wiring up a dead short that will trip the breaker everytime the alt > field is switched on? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400944#400944 > > > > > > > > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > _- > ==================================================== > ====== > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 11:20:35 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Lithium Ion Battery for OBAM aircraft pr oject
    At 05:21 AM 5/19/2013, you wrote: >Hi Bob, > >I am going to the US next month for 2 weeks with >work ' was thinking of picking up a copy of your >book. From a previous post ' I noted that you >are working on a =91complete update=92 ' (or maybe I got this wrong ??) .. yes but several months out yet . . . > >If a new book will be available ' will it be so >in time for my visit ?? I am going to Kansas Where in Ks? Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:38:09 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Z13/8 all electric airplane
    >My question was less about electron directional flow than it was >about the fellow's intention to connect the switch/breaker to GND. >Unless he is switching/breaking the GND to control the alternator >field, which I thought in most instances was bad practice, isn't he >wiring up a dead short that will trip the breaker everytime the alt >field is switched on? As Bob suggests . . . trace the circuit. The alternator control switch is used to energize a relay that connects the PM alternator to the BUS. The control relay coil is paralleled with a crowbar OVM . . . open circuit 99.99% of the time but becomes a dead short when voltage across the device exceeds about 16.4 volts. The "short" across the relay coil would indeed force it to relax the contacts and disconnect the offending alternator from the bus. But it would also burn the wires that supply power to the relay coil through the closed switch. The goal for keeping one's cockpit smoke free suggest some form of fault current mitigation like a fuse, breaker, polyswitch, etc. In this case it's a breaker which can be ANYWHERE along the series path from bus to ground. Actually, I've been contemplating replacement of the breaker in that drawing with a polyswitch. Given the low current demands for driving the relay coil, this would be an excellent place to incorporate a polyswitch. I'm wrestling with annunciation issues. A popped breaker is, not a great annunciator but it's not bad. If we 'hide' a tripped condition by going solid state polyfuse, then perhaps some form of OV TRIP indication is called for. I've got some ideas and will incorporate the most elegant configuration into the Z-figures that control PM alternators with the RELAY/OVM combination. Bob . . .




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