Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:29 AM - Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (Eric M. Jones)
2. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 09:24 AM - Re: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (John Grosse)
4. 01:00 PM - Re: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (Graeme Hart)
5. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (John Grosse)
6. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 02:17 PM - Re: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (Endspeed)
9. 03:04 PM - Re: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (Graeme Hart)
10. 03:32 PM - Re: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test (Vern Little)
12. 06:23 PM - 12V Batteries (Mark Banus)
13. 07:11 PM - Re: 12V Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
The really weird thing with using LEDs is that they will last longer than the socket,
longer than the switch and longer than the airframe. So unless you're going
full-on Steam Punk, or the press-to-test feature really does something useful,
just remove the switch and put a cork in the hole.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=402389#402389
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
At 08:28 AM 6/10/2013, you wrote:
>
>The really weird thing with using LEDs is that they will last longer
>than the socket, longer than the switch and longer than the
>airframe. So unless you're going full-on Steam Punk, or the
>press-to-test feature really does something useful, just remove the
>switch and put a cork in the hole.
Does the PTT button for a lamp/socket/switch
combination not produce a false sense of security?
That's sorta like going out on a high risk
hike in the woods having only checked to see
that your sandwiches are packed. We don't
fly indicator lamps, switches, propellers
or aileron control cables. These are all
ingredients that go into recipes for a
flight system
.
Failure of any single ingredient to perform
needs to be evaluated for potential impact
on the system/mission . . . i.e. risks.
One assumes that warning lights are included
to mitigate risk. If the light is important
enough to give it panel space and attention
at pre-flight, is it not equally (if not more)
critical to test that warning system end-to-end?
Is it not better to test a warning system by
watching for annunciation of a real stimulus
like low pressure, unlocked canopy or low
voltage . . . as opposed to knowing that the
lamp is good?
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
That is certainly true, but if my landing gear "down light" doesn't come
on, I'd like to be able to at least verify that the bulb is or isn't
working.
John Grosse
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
> June 11, 2013 9:33 AM
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>
>
> Is it not better to test a warning system by
> watching for annunciation of a real stimulus
> like low pressure, unlocked canopy or low
> voltage . . . as opposed to knowing that the
> lamp is good?
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
If you are sitting in the plane on the ground doing pre-flight checks I
hope you would notice if the landing gear was not down! ;)
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 4:23 AM, John Grosse <grosseair@comcast.net> wrote:
> grosseair@comcast.net>
>
> That is certainly true, but if my landing gear "down light" doesn't come
> on, I'd like to be able to at least verify that the bulb is or isn't
> working.
>
> John Grosse
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III <mailto:nuckolls.bob@**aeroelectric.com<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>> >
>> June 11, 2013 9:33 AM
>>
>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**>
>>
>>
>> Is it not better to test a warning system by
>> watching for annunciation of a real stimulus
>> like low pressure, unlocked canopy or low
>> voltage . . . as opposed to knowing that the
>> lamp is good?
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
Gee, really? The situation I was imagining would be in the air, on
approach, but on the ground you would be right:)
Do you happen to remember Eastern 401 that crashed in the Everglades
while the crew tried to figure out if the gear light was burned out. A
"push to test" function would have been handy to have.
John
Graeme Hart wrote:
>
> If you are sitting in the plane on the ground doing pre-flight checks
> I hope you would notice if the landing gear was not down! ;)
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 4:23 AM, John Grosse <grosseair@comcast.net
> <mailto:grosseair@comcast.net>> wrote:
>
> <grosseair@comcast.net <mailto:grosseair@comcast.net>>
>
> That is certainly true, but if my landing gear "down light"
> doesn't come on, I'd like to be able to at least verify that the
> bulb is or isn't working.
>
> John Grosse
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
At 11:23 AM 6/10/2013, you wrote:
>
>That is certainly true, but if my landing gear "down light" doesn't
>come on, I'd like to be able to at least verify that the bulb is or
>isn't working.
What difference would it make? During pre-flight, if you have
ANY light producing an unexpected display, what do you
do about it? Now we've moved from a systems integrity
verification mode (pre-flight) to a diagnostic mode
(not going flying right now).
Pressing a button to show that it lights up doesn't
change the realities of the next move.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
At 03:39 PM 6/10/2013, you wrote:
>
>Gee, really? The situation I was imagining would be in the air, on
>approach, but on the ground you would be right:)
>
>Do you happen to remember Eastern 401 that crashed in the Everglades
>while the crew tried to figure out if the gear light was burned out.
>A "push to test" function would have been handy to have.
They DID have a PTT function that didn't light the
light. So they were borrowing a lamp from another
fixture. These can be changed without tools but it
does involve 'fiddling' with the little flanged
base lamps common to this style of backlit, sunlight
viewable fixture.
[]
Whoever was supposed to be flying got so involved
in diagnosis and in-flight maintenance issues
that a shift in a/p from altitude hold to
control wheel steering went unnoticed.
This wasn't a case of not having a 'handy'
feature, it was a breakdown of cockpit
protocol.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
Or maybe the simpler solution is two juxtaposed indicator bulbs wired in parallel.
On Jun 10, 2013, at 3:39 PM, John Grosse <grosseair@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Gee, really? The situation I was imagining would be in the air, on approach,
but on the ground you would be right:)
>
> Do you happen to remember Eastern 401 that crashed in the Everglades while the
crew tried to figure out if the gear light was burned out. A "push to test"
function would have been handy to have.
>
> John
>
> Graeme Hart wrote:
>>
>> If you are sitting in the plane on the ground doing pre-flight checks I hope
you would notice if the landing gear was not down! ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 4:23 AM, John Grosse <grosseair@comcast.net <mailto:grosseair@comcast.net>> wrote:
>>
>> <grosseair@comcast.net <mailto:grosseair@comcast.net>>
>>
>> That is certainly true, but if my landing gear "down light"
>> doesn't come on, I'd like to be able to at least verify that the
>> bulb is or isn't working.
>>
>> John Grosse
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
Good point, we were obviously thinking of quite different situations.
With an LED "light" the chance of it failing is minute. It is much more
likely the sensor on the gear or the wiring will fail and a "push to test"
function would do nothing to help in this situation.
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 8:39 AM, John Grosse <grosseair@comcast.net> wrote:
> grosseair@comcast.net>
>
> Gee, really? The situation I was imagining would be in the air, on
> approach, but on the ground you would be right:)
>
> Do you happen to remember Eastern 401 that crashed in the Everglades while
> the crew tried to figure out if the gear light was burned out. A "push to
> test" function would have been handy to have.
>
> John
>
> Graeme Hart wrote:
>
>>
>> If you are sitting in the plane on the ground doing pre-flight checks I
>> hope you would notice if the landing gear was not down! ;)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 4:23 AM, John Grosse <grosseair@comcast.net<mailto:
>> grosseair@comcast.net>**> wrote:
>>
>> <grosseair@comcast.net <mailto:grosseair@comcast.net>**>
>>
>>
>> That is certainly true, but if my landing gear "down light"
>> doesn't come on, I'd like to be able to at least verify that the
>> bulb is or isn't working.
>>
>> John Grosse
>>
>>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
At 04:24 PM 6/10/2013, you wrote:
>
>Or maybe the simpler solution is two juxtaposed indicator bulbs
>wired in parallel.
Actually, there are sunlight viewable, dead-front
annunciator fixtures that mount two bulbs in parallel.
The idea is that the fixture still performs its intended
function with only one lamp . . . but with obvious
gradient of brightness across the face. The likelihood
of loosing two lamps on any one flight cycle is
very remote.
All of the LED sunlight viewable fixtures I've encountered
have multiple lamps . . . mostly to get the light required
total light output and sufficient coverage of the back of
the lens. These too would 'fail gracefully' if single
lamps were to fail.
But again, press-to-test verification of lamp functionality
offers only a meager fraction of the information that
a pilot would really like to have when making important
decisions.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Indicator light circuit with push to test |
I think there is a bit of focus on testing the lamps. It=99s not
the only function for the PTT function.
I use the PTT to set the dimmer level for night operations. Press the
button, dial in the light level you want and you won=99t be
dazzled when a warning lamp comes on.
Vern
From: Graeme Hart
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Indicator light circuit with push to
test
Good point, we were obviously thinking of quite different situations.
With an LED "light" the chance of it failing is minute. It is much more
likely the sensor on the gear or the wiring will fail and a "push to
test" function would do nothing to help in this situation.
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 8:39 AM, John Grosse <grosseair@comcast.net>
wrote:
<grosseair@comcast.net>
Gee, really? The situation I was imagining would be in the air, on
approach, but on the ground you would be right:)
Do you happen to remember Eastern 401 that crashed in the Everglades
while the crew tried to figure out if the gear light was burned out. A
"push to test" function would have been handy to have.
John
Graeme Hart wrote:
If you are sitting in the plane on the ground doing pre-flight
checks I hope you would notice if the landing gear was not down! ;)
On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 4:23 AM, John Grosse <grosseair@comcast.net
<mailto:grosseair@comcast.net>> wrote:
<grosseair@comcast.net <mailto:grosseair@comcast.net>>
That is certainly true, but if my landing gear "down light"
doesn't come on, I'd like to be able to at least verify that the
bulb is or isn't working.
John Grosse
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06/10/13
Message 12
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Bob, Several years ago I believe you were recommending Panasonic 1220
batteries, VRLA technology. I am also looking at the Odyssey PC 625/680
series with AGM technology. What is your choice for an all-electric
aircraft?
Thanks
Mark Banus
Glasair II FT
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 12V Batteries |
At 08:22 PM 6/10/2013, you wrote:
>Bob, Several years ago I believe you were recommending Panasonic
>1220 batteries, VRLA technology. I am also looking at the Odyssey
>PC 625/680 series with AGM technology. What is your choice for an
>all-electric aircraft?
>Thanks
>Mark Banus
>Glasair II FT
What engine and which architecture?
Bob . . .
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