Today's Message Index:
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1. 04:09 AM - Choosing the switches for an RV-10 (Owen Baker)
2. 05:32 AM - Re: Choosing the switches for an RV-10 (Carlos Trigo)
3. 07:12 AM - Re: Choosing the switches for an RV-10 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
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Subject: | Choosing the switches for an RV-10 |
7/9/2013
Hello Bob Nuckolls,
On 7/8/13 you wrote: =9CCan you point me to the discussions about
this product? Are reliability issues centered on any one feature of the
design?=9D (See posting copied below.)
On 8/16/2004 You wrote: =9CHave you considered getting your money
back and putting in toggle switches? In my never humble opinion,
key-switches suck.=9D (See posting copied below)
OC
PS: In the interest of brevity I did only one archive search of the
aeroelectriclist, using only the search term ACS SWITCH, and selected
only one posting of the 16 that showed up.
=============
Time: 07:43:03 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Choosing the switches for an RV-10
>
>
>Given the wiring complexity (confusion) and the
>widely published poor reliability of the ACS
>combined starter ' magneto switch I am surprised
>that any amateur builder would even consider
>installing such a switch in the aircraft that he is building.
>
>OC
Can you point me to the discussions about this product?
Are reliability issues centered on any one feature
of the design? This switch is a clone of the legacy
Bendix/Gerdes product popularlized in the single-engine
markets waaayyy back when. I think I recall seeing a
twin that needed two-keys to go flying. I'm wondering
if the problems are not centered on starter contactor
currents. The FAA saw fit to mandate adding a diode
to the circuit for airplanes that were being upgraded
to modern, two-stage solenoid/contactors . . . when
in fact, contact opening arcing was just the worst
of stress . . . that 30A inrush was still there . . .
a stress that the switch was never designed to manage.
Bob . . .
Match: #3Message: #42083From: <bakerocb(at)cox.net>Subject: Igntion
SwitchesDate: Jul 21, 2008 7/21/2008
Hello Skip, You wrote: "I saw the referenced ACS Keyed Ignition Switches
and a starter switch. What is the benefit in two switches over one?" I
am glad you asked. The history of these types of ignition switches:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/search/search.php does not fill one with
great confidence. See: http://tinyurl.com/j3m5j They are mechanical
devices, of not necessarily the highest quality -- sort of like an old
time watch -- with a lot of little bits and pieces inside that can get
worn / broken. Actually I'd prefer three switches. A simple, reliable,
separate toggle switch for each magneto P lead, and a push button switch
with a guard on it for activating the starter contact solenoid.
See the postings copied below for other's experience with the ACS /
Bendix keyed type switches.
-------------------------------------------- {#} Replies are directed
back to kisbuilders(at)angus.mystery.com {#} To reply to the author,
write to Keith.Miller(at)esa.int OC I started with the standard ACS
switch , but junked it after it left one of the mags live after
switching off , now I also have 3 seperate switches ( 2 "heavy duty" for
the mags and a "push to make" type for the starter ).
----------------------------------------------------------- Message:
#19408 Date: Aug 16, 2004 From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re:
ACS switch issues for Rotax 912S > > >Ok, I traced it down to the ACS
ignition switch (P/N A-510-2). When I >switch to the left side ("R") it
will cut out sometimes. Not very often >but if I do it just right then
off she goes. The switch only had been >used about 40 hours when this
started showing up. > >It appears that it is grounding, or at least
partially grounding, >inadvertently when switched over to that "mag". >
>Could it have to do with the diode issue that ACS mentions with regards
to >impulse coupled mags? The diode was added to the starter contactor
control circuit . . . with totally bogus engineering behind it. See
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/spikecatcher.pdf >FWIW I've wired
according to Bob's notes with the shield acting as the >ground. I was
very very careful when wiring and so far this is the only >electrical
problem I've had. > >I've also wiggled all the wires around behind the
switch (and also the >engine) and it doesn't seem to be any of the
wires. I'm guessing it's >internal to the switch or something to do with
a spike of some sort. > >Any other ideas before I pull the switch out
and send it back to ACS? Have you considered getting your money back and
putting in toggle switches? In my never humble opinion, key-switches
suck. Bob . . .
----------------------------------------- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Skip LaPolice" Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 3:26 PM Subject:
Re: AW: Replacing Starter > Hi Owen, > I noticed in your reply to JF
regarding an ignition > switch that it is better to have " separate
magneto > and starters." Please help my understanding. > I'm building a
Pulsar with a 2200 Jabiru and I'm > thinking avionics as I mix epoxy. >
I saw the referenced ACS Keyed Ignition Switches > and a starter switch.
What is the benefit in two switches > over one? My car has one. > Thanks
much! > Be well, > Skip/ End Msg: #3
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Subject: | Choosing the switches for an RV-10 |
Thank you all for your opinions, I 'm still undecided but I think I will
follow the toggle route.
Best
Carlos
=============
Time: 02:38:19 AM PST US
From: "Carlos Trigo" < <mailto:trigo@mail.telepac.pt> trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Choosing the switches for an RV-10
Guys
It's time to choose the switches for the RV-10 panel, and I wonder which
ones are more popular between the RV-10 builders:
For the Master and ALT field, have you used the Cessna split rocker or just
2 separate toggle switches?
For the magnetos and starter, did everybody use the ACS combined keyed
switch, or is it better to use 2 toggles and one push-button momentary
starter switch?
And for the lights and other electrical equipment, which has been the
choice: the classic rocker switches or the color coded toggle switches?
Thanks for your opinions, both in the technical and the functional aspects
Carlos
ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
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Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Choosing the switches for an RV-10 |
At 06:08 AM 7/9/2013, you wrote:
>7/9/2013
>
>Hello Bob Nuckolls,
>
>On 7/8/13 you wrote: Can you point me to the
>discussions about this product? Are reliability
>issues centered on any one feature of the
>design? (See posting copied below.)
>
>On 8/16/2004 You wrote: Have you considered
>getting your money back and putting in toggle
>switches? In my never humble opinion,
>key-switches suck. (See posting copied below)
>
>OC
>
Thank you. Yeah, I was aware that we'd thrashed some
ACS switch issues here on the List . . . was wondering
if you were aware of problems surfacing in other forums.
I think my reference to the relative 'suckiness' of key
switches was framed in notion that airplanes needed to
emulate automobiles, that the switch is big and expensive,
and that keys offered any great measure of security.
I flew a rental airplane home after having lost the
keys. Wiggled the terminals on the back of the
switch until they broke off, hand propped the airplane
and brought it home. Replaced the terminals when I
got back and replaced the key. Other pilots have
done the lost-key work-around by breaking the termimals
off the back of the mags.
It would have been interesting to do a tear-down on
the problem switch. I'm thinking that it was an
isolated incident and that for the most part the
Off-L-R-B-S key switches perform as advertised.
I just don't think they're an elegant solution to a
simple design problem.
Bob . . .
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