---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/12/13: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:19 AM - Re: Re: Footwell got burned! (Jared Yates) 2. 04:22 AM - Re: Battery Cap Tester (Ken) 3. 06:59 AM - Re: Re: Footwell got burned! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:45 AM - Re: Battery Cap Tester (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 08:57 AM - Re: Battery Cap Tester (Ken Lehman) 6. 09:04 AM - Re: Battery Cap Tester (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Footwell got burned! From: Jared Yates I would try talking to Rayovac. I have had their D cells leak in a Maglite and had the flashlight replaced through Maglite, who said that they had agreements with Rayovac, Duracel, and Energizer. There may be some sort of guarantee from them. On Jul 12, 2013, at 0:15, "rparigoris" wrote: > > Hi Bob > > I just got in from hangar. > > I washed the foot-well with white vinegar tonight to neutralize any base, then washed with water. The vinegar did not discolor the high temperature Phenolic resin. The foot-well is kinda porous, even after washing with water, alcohol and acetone, can still smell a faint amount of vinegar > > I picked up the carcass, it wasn't a EverReady battery like I thought, it's a 6 volt Rayovac with an expiration of December 2017. > > Where would you like for me to send the carcass? You have sent me stuff in the past to try out, shipping is on me this time around. > > Here's exactly what happened: > I installed this battery in the lantern in December 2010 and stored it with the lens facing up. The opposite side of lens of the lantern is water tight, so it leaked and caused no damage to the lantern at all but collected in this watertight side. > > While doing my inspection on the front of my Europa, I was picking up and putting down the lantern, lens down several times. During those cycles the clear liquid leaked past the threads of the lens and soaked my foot-well. Then I turned the lantern off and put it lens up on the foot-well and noticed the liquid. > > Since the liquid was on components of the lantern for a very short time, and I washed it off, no damage occurred. > > Ron Parigoris > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404523#404523 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:13 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Cap Tester I believe HobbyKing sells a $20. ish dollar device that will integrate whatever discharge you choose to put on the battery. Ken do not archive On 11/07/2013 12:01 PM, jonlaury wrote: > > Bob, > Last October, when I left my Pitot heater on overnight, my PC680 got pulled down to 7.5v and I mentioned the event in another post. At that time, you said you were building a batt cap tester to sell on the AEC. > > Is it about to launch? > > After charging, I've noticed that my PC680 drains from 13 to 11.6v over two weeks of sitting. My car battery doesn't drain that much even with phantom loads of the ECU, clock and anything else that I'm not aware of. So I was going to fab a poorman's cap checker unless you've got something that will save me the trouble. > > Thanks, > John > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:50 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Footwell got burned! At 11:15 PM 7/11/2013, you wrote: > > >Hi Bob > >I just got in from hangar. > >I washed the foot-well with white vinegar tonight to neutralize any >base, then washed with water. The vinegar did not discolor the high >temperature Phenolic resin. The foot-well is kinda porous, even >after washing with water, alcohol and acetone, can still smell a >faint amount of vinegar > >I picked up the carcass, it wasn't a EverReady battery like I >thought, it's a 6 volt Rayovac with an expiration of December 2017. > >Where would you like for me to send the carcass? You have sent me >stuff in the past to try out, shipping is on me this time around. Box 130, Medicine Lodge, KS 67104-0130 Double bag it in a freezer zip-lock so you don't get the post office upset with us! >Here's exactly what happened: >I installed this battery in the lantern in December 2010 and stored >it with the lens facing up. The opposite side of lens of the lantern >is water tight, so it leaked and caused no damage to the lantern at >all but collected in this watertight side. > >While doing my inspection on the front of my Europa, I was picking >up and putting down the lantern, lens down several times. During >those cycles the clear liquid leaked past the threads of the lens >and soaked my foot-well. Then I turned the lantern off and put it >lens up on the foot-well and noticed the liquid. > >Since the liquid was on components of the lantern for a very short >time, and I washed it off, no damage occurred. > >Ron Parigoris okay. so your event was pure leakage with no evidence of heating? I guess I got your posting merged with Eric's observation of a 'hot flashlihgt'. Hmmmm . . . if no signs of electrical energy release it seems we're looking at a simple leakage event. I'm curious about the liquidity of the effluent. The few times I've had these cells open, the contents were the consistency of peanut butter . . . but that was a long time ago. Let's hold off on shipping. You could move forward with a claim against Ray-o-Vac. Was this a spring-post, 6v lantern battery or individual cells? The spring-post batteries use an array of "F" cells . . . same diameter as D but longer. Since they're not sold as individual cells they don't get the same kind of jacket around them. Was this an alkaline or carbon-zinc product? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:55 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Cap Tester At 11:01 AM 7/11/2013, you wrote: > >Bob, >Last October, when I left my Pitot heater on overnight, my PC680 got >pulled down to 7.5v and I mentioned the event in another post. At >that time, you said you were building a batt cap tester to sell on the AEC. > >Is it about to launch? > >After charging, I've noticed that my PC680 drains from 13 to 11.6v >over two weeks of sitting. My car battery doesn't drain that much >even with phantom loads of the ECU, clock and anything else that I'm >not aware of. So I was going to fab a poorman's cap checker unless >you've got something that will save me the trouble. Hi John, Funny you should mention that. I've been on an archeological dig on the workbench and uncovered a nicely fabricated po' boy's cap checker sent to me for troubleshooting. It was receipt of that project that launched the software based timer/cap-checker project. Paul got the software up to a beta release state. It goes on the same ECB as the uC based wig-wag controller. I need to stuff a board, program a chip and see if it all comes together. Sounds like you're needs are pretty immediate. Just the pitot heater? Sounds like the the master was left on and more 'stuff' than pitot heater was loading the battery. In any case, an over-night load of that magnitude certainly extracted 99%+ of the battery's contained energy. How old was the battery when this event occured? What are you using to charge the battery? Is it a smart charger with a bulk/top-off/sustain profile? This accelerated self-discharge doesn't sound good but it MIGHT be that your charger isn't topping the battery off. Does it still crank the engine? Have you conducted a cranking load test (how many amps delivered after 15 seconds loaded down to 9 volts)? If it's still cranking the engine, then the battery should top off in flight with a bus of 14.4 to 14.6 volts. But if the OCV drops that fast, then it's almost a certainty that the battery is crippled. I've moved the po' boy's battery cap checker to the front of the bench but its going to be awhile before it's in a practical state of utility for you. If you're flying this battery, you need some faster data. Clip a 55w head-lamp bulb across the battery and come back in 2 hours to check the voltage. http://tinyurl.com/kgkxw3l If it's not at 11.0 volts or above, the battery is toast. Another reader suggested this battery test fixture from Hobby King . . . http://tinyurl.com/q2sv4xl It's designed to test an array of li-ion cells in a model . . . not well suited to your task and is certainly not outfitted to load your battery in concert with your endurance loads. Further, reviews of this device are in the toilet. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:43 AM PST US From: "Ken Lehman" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Cap Tester this is the hobbyking item I was thinking of. Up to 60 volts and 130 amps. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__turnigy_130a_watt_meter_and_power_analyzer.html Ken do not archive > > At 11:01 AM 7/11/2013, you wrote: > > > >Bob, > >Last October, when I left my Pitot heater on overnight, my PC680 got > >pulled down to 7.5v and I mentioned the event in another post. At > >that time, you said you were building a batt cap tester to sell on the AEC. > > > >Is it about to launch? > > > >After charging, I've noticed that my PC680 drains from 13 to 11.6v > >over two weeks of sitting. My car battery doesn't drain that much > >even with phantom loads of the ECU, clock and anything else that I'm > >not aware of. So I was going to fab a poorman's cap checker unless > >you've got something that will save me the trouble. > > Hi John, > > Funny you should mention that. I've been on an archeological > dig on the workbench and uncovered a nicely fabricated > po' boy's cap checker sent to me for troubleshooting. > It was receipt of that project that launched the software > based timer/cap-checker project. Paul got the software up > to a beta release state. It goes on the same ECB as the > uC based wig-wag controller. I need to stuff a board, > program a chip and see if it all comes together. > > Sounds like you're needs are pretty immediate. Just the > pitot heater? Sounds like the the master was left on > and more 'stuff' than pitot heater was loading the > battery. In any case, an over-night load of that magnitude > certainly extracted 99%+ of the battery's contained energy. > > How old was the battery when this event occured? > > What are you using to charge the battery? Is it a smart > charger with a bulk/top-off/sustain profile? > > This accelerated self-discharge doesn't sound good > but it MIGHT be that your charger isn't topping > the battery off. Does it still crank the engine? > Have you conducted a cranking load test (how many > amps delivered after 15 seconds loaded down to > 9 volts)? > > If it's still cranking the engine, then the battery > should top off in flight with a bus of 14.4 to 14.6 > volts. But if the OCV drops that fast, then it's > almost a certainty that the battery is crippled. > > I've moved the po' boy's battery cap checker to > the front of the bench but its going to be awhile > before it's in a practical state of utility for > you. If you're flying this battery, you need some > faster data. Clip a 55w head-lamp bulb across the > battery and come back in 2 hours to check the > voltage. > > http://tinyurl.com/kgkxw3l > > If it's not at 11.0 volts or above, the battery > is toast. > > Another reader suggested this battery test fixture > from Hobby King . . . > > http://tinyurl.com/q2sv4xl > > It's designed to test an array of li-ion cells in > a model . . . not well suited to your task and is > certainly not outfitted to load your battery in > concert with your endurance loads. Further, reviews > of this device are in the toilet. > > > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Cap Tester From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Group Here's one slick tool that no home should be without: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10080__Turnigy_130A_Watt_Meter_and_Power_Analyzer.html You can keep it alive with an aux battery if required. I use a 4 AA holder from Rat Shack that has a built in switch. You can data log watts in or out. I have used it to charge and measure capacity of batteries ranging from a 50mA NiMh to 4 in series 200 amp lead acid deep discharge. The above is OK quality, but not as nice as Astroflight Whatt Meters: http://www.astroflight.com/electronics/watt-meters.html It's whatt, not watt meter. Hobby King thus far has been OK to deal with. If they show 0 in stock, you have to wait before they will ship until they do another run. That's the way they operate, they get orders, then build. You can go on their site and put something on a wishlist, then when they make a production run you will get an E-Mail they have stock. Shipping, their cheap kind is cheap, but slow (OK by me most of the time). I think they offer other modes of shipping. Or buy a Whattmeter, they ship from USA, probably same day for a little more than double the price. The only difference I find, is the Whatt meter is not a directional tool, run a load from a battery through the meter it will begin to accumulate watts, now begin to charge through the meter and it will accumulate watts the same. The Turnigy will only log in one direction. I tend to like the quirk of the Whatt meter. Ron Parigoris ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.