---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/26/13: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - two com radios (JOHN TIPTON) 2. 12:18 AM - Re: two com radios (Bob Verwey) 3. 07:04 AM - Re: Radio not working (GNS430 and GMA240 setup) (Bill Watson) 4. 07:49 AM - Re: Radio not working (GNS430 and GMA240 setup) (David Lloyd) 5. 08:00 AM - Re: two com radios (nuckollsr) 6. 08:16 AM - Re: Zodiac 601 with Jabiru engine radio noise revisited. (nuckollsr) 7. 01:12 PM - Alternators on aircraft (Bill Bradburry) 8. 05:15 PM - Re: Alternators on aircraft (Bill Putney) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:11 AM PST US From: "JOHN TIPTON" Subject: AeroElectric-List: two com radios Hi Guys (Bob) I'd like to fit 2 x radio coms, I don't want or need a full 'audio panel' what are my options, I guess I really need is some kind of sophisticated change-over switch John ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:33 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: two com radios From: Bob Verwey Intercom? On 26 July 2013 09:07, JOHN TIPTON wrote: > jmtipton@btopenworld.com> > > Hi Guys (Bob) > > I'd like to fit 2 x radio coms, I don't want or need a full 'audio panel' > what are my options, I guess I really need is some kind of sophisticated > change-over switch > > John > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:33 AM PST US From: Bill Watson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio not working (GNS430 and GMA240 setup) I too ran into this. In fact, it took a good bit of 'shimming' to get the G430, an SL30 and a PMA9000EX to all 'line up'. They each have a slightly different criteria for relating to the front panel. Bill On 7/24/2013 12:49 PM, David Lloyd wrote: > Sacha, > My suggestion is a bit far out, but, I have witnessed the 430 problem. . . > When the 430 chassis box is mounted in the panel, it maybe set a bit > too far back in the rack; maybe 1/8 inch or so. It must be fixed > flush with the panel front. If it is not flush, when you slide the > 430 in, all the pins do not fully engage into the chassis box receiver > pin sockets. This can also happen when you install the 430 into a > properly located chassis box, if the 430 is not fully drawn back into > the chassis via the screw locking device. > D > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dave Saylor > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:41 AM > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio not working (GNS430 and > GMA240 setup) > > Do you have power to all the power inputs on the 430? It needs > two separate inputs, and the separation isn't intuitive. It'll > still do some comm stuff without comm power, IIRC. > > Other than that, if you're using 12V, are you sure it's a 12V > unit, not 24? > > Dave Saylor > 831-750-0284 CL > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:52 AM, Sacha > wrote: > > > > > Hi List, > I have a problem that is driving me nuts. I have run out of > ideas for trouble shooting this. > I have a GN430 as com 1 and a GMA240 audio panel mounted in my > Kitfox. My com2 is a handheld and I haven't wired it in yet. > All the GNS and GMA functions (GPS, intercom, music, etc) work > except for the radio: I cannot hear others and they cannot > hear me, even though I can see the Tx and Rx symbols on the > GNS's LCD display which indicates that the PTT buttons are > working and that the radio is receiving *something*. > Here are the steps I have taken so far towards trouble shooting: > - I have checked that the headsets are working (the intercom > works perfectly and they work on other a/c). > - I have also checked that the radio works on my bench (I can > hear transmissions that I send using a handheld radio, even > without mounting an antenna on the GNS). > - I have checked all the connections between the GNS and GMA > connectors using a tester. > - I have turned up the volume and turned down the squelch on > the GMA and on the GNS. > Has anyone had a similar experience? Am I missing something > obvious that I should check? I suppose I haven't checked that > the com1 channel on GMA works but I have no reason to doubt > it, since the unit is new. > Any help would be greatly appreciated! > Sacha > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:26 AM PST US From: "David Lloyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio not working (GNS430 and GMA240 setup) Sacha, I 'assume' what you are asking is a method to be able to "plug-in" a handheld into the aircraft's antenna system. There is and Bob has addressed this before in one of his many responses. In summary, (others will point to the details. . .) One builds or buys a small shielded box with the main ship's antenna cable going thru it via BNC connectors, but, broken via a jack and plug set-up with the jack connector accessible via the panel. The handheld's antenna is removed and a short shielded cable is attached and the other end does to the new switch box.input located on the panel. The connection is made such that the main comm's are disconnected from the antenna and the handheld now has command of the ship's antenna. Bob or others will point to the detailed article & method of doing this or where to purchase.....Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Sacha To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 9:20 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio not working (GNS430 and GMA240 setup) David, Absolutely. In fact I did exactly as you said. I still can't believe it's all working, it feels like a luxury not to have to grab the handheld everytime I need to make a radio call! I've been wondering.... Is there a way that one can wire in the handheld (Icom A3E) to the audio panel as a standby com2? I already have an adaptor to use the headset with the handheld, but it would require me to unplug the headset from the aircraft and plug it into the handheld. Is there a way that I wire things so I just have to select com2 on the audio panel? Sacha On Jul 26, 2013, at 0:19, "David Lloyd" wrote: Sacha, I am glad my suggestion worked out to fix the 430 problem . . . Here is another tip about installing the 430 back into the receiver chassis whenever you have removed it. I don't recommend that you draw the 430 back into it chassis by only using the Allen drive screw-jack. This is hard on the small screw assembly and could cause it to fail later on. I always insert the 430 using my thumbs on the panel ends until I feel engagement resistance. Then, I take up 1 turn on the screw jack, then using my thumbs again, I press and rock the 430 further back into the chassis and then use the screw-jack to take up the slack until it is fully seated. Two reasons for doing this..... using your fingers can detect if the 430 is hanging up going into the chassis and you can stop and investigate. #2.. is to take the torqueing wear and tear off the screw- jack mechanism. It is small and uses nylon parts. It is not very durable if you are the ham fisted slam it in type..... Dave ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ----- Original Message ----- From: Sacha To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:11 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio not working (GNS430 and GMA240 setup) Thanks all for your help. It turns out that the unit was not sufficiently screwed in. The unit appeared to work but did not work completely. The installation manual says it needs a minimum of three turns of the Allen key and mine only had two turns. I wiggled the unit and managed to squeeze an extra turn into it and bingo! It works perfectly! Thanks all for your help, I can't tell you how relieved I feel... I had been trying to fix this for months. My next project is to wire in the handheld (its an Icom A3E)... Does anyone know if this is possible? On Jul 24, 2013, at 22:36, Charlie England wrote: Don't forget *all* the grounds, too. I tried to help a friend with a similar issue several years ago; even spoke directly with a Garmin tech & told him exactly which pins were hooked up. The tech told me we were golden on all the wires. Radio worked when inserted in another a/c. He finally took it to a radio shop. They took one look at the back of the tray & said, "You're missing that ground right there." They installed the ground, & everything worked. Sorry to say I don't know which ground they added (there are several). On 07/24/2013 01:23 PM, Sacha wrote: Thanks guys. I hadn't thought of that but it seems like a good place to look. When my GNS slides in, it does in fact have some trouble doing so. I'll check that and report any findings. Regards Sacha On Jul 24, 2013, at 19:50, Tim Andres wrote: Dave's suggestion is a good one and there is a test procedure in the 430 install manual to determine if you are getting complete pin engagement from the tray/panel assembly Check the audio panel for the same issue. Next pull all the D subs and make sure all the pins are fully seated and don't push out when you try to press them out. Tim Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2013, at 9:49 AM, "David Lloyd" wrote: Sacha, My suggestion is a bit far out, but, I have witnessed the 430 problem. . . When the 430 chassis box is mounted in the panel, it maybe set a bit too far back in the rack; maybe 1/8 inch or so. It must be fixed flush with the panel front. If it is not flush, when you slide the 430 in, all the pins do not fully engage into the chassis box receiver pin sockets. This can also happen when you install the 430 into a properly located chassis box, if the 430 is not fully drawn back into the chassis via the screw locking device. D ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Saylor To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:41 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Radio not working (GNS430 and GMA240 setup) Do you have power to all the power inputs on the 430? It needs two separate inputs, and the separation isn't intuitive. It'll still do some comm stuff without comm power, IIRC. Other than that, if you're using 12V, are you sure it's a 12V unit, not 24? Dave Saylor 831-750-0284 CL On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 5:52 AM, Sacha wrote: Hi List, I have a problem that is driving me nuts. I have run out of ideas for trouble shooting this. I have a GN430 as com 1 and a GMA240 audio panel mounted in my Kitfox. My com2 is a handheld and I haven't wired it in yet. All the GNS and GMA functions (GPS, intercom, music, etc) work except for the radio: I cannot hear others and they cannot hear me, even though I can see the Tx and Rx symbols on the GNS's LCD display which indicates that the PTT buttons are working and that the radio is receiving *something*. Here are the steps I have taken so far towards trouble shooting: - I have checked that the headsets are working (the intercom works perfectly and they work on other a/c). - I have also checked that the radio works on my bench (I can hear transmissions that I send using a handheld radio, even without mounting an antenna on the GNS). - I have checked all the connections between the GNS and GMA connectors using a tester. - I have turned up the volume and turned down the squelch on the GMA and on the GNS. Has anyone had a similar experience? Am I missing something obvious that I should check? I suppose I haven't checked that the com1 channel on GMA works but I have no reason to doubt it, since the unit is new. Any help would be greatly appreciated! 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Suggest you review the chapter on audio systems and then come back for necessary clarification on selection of a solution. Bob . . . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405341#405341 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:49 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Zodiac 601 with Jabiru engine radio noise revisited. From: "nuckollsr" The voice is clear but along with the voice is a very loud hum (whine). This happens with either the radio, or intercom being used, makes no difference. This suggests that the noise is being injected into the microphone wiring such it is heard on the intercom and carried through to the radio. So far Ive installed a forest of tabs on the firewall, and rewired all grounds to it ALL grounds? Avionics grounds should be treated as shown in installation diagrams. For example, microphone and headset grounds are generally routed with their signal wires and grounded to the device that get the signals . . . intercom or radio. This is illustrated and discussed in the chapter on audio systems. Jabiru recommended twisting the alternator(PM) leads full length, this was done, Pointless Phone jack isolation washers where installed and checked for no errant grounds, Good regulator/rectifier hot lead was moved to the battery, ground was moved to forest of tabs big bolt. Okay Mic audio and mic ground wires where separated as best as I could for most of their length(short run anyway). OOPS! See above. Capacitor was installed across the bus to ground. Okay but pointless. Bus filters never help. The noise starts to appear at 1600 rpm and increases in volume up to max engine rpm. The alternator cuts in at 1600 rpm. Disconnected the alternator and ran it, no hum, everything is fine. If it is the alternator being the culprit, is there anyway to deal with it? The alternator is the greatest generator of noise in the airplane. It cannot be filtered by any practical means . . . only careful crafting of system architectures will isolated the victim radios from the potential antagonism of the alternator. Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far but Im running out of ideas. Run all three microphone wires in twisted trio (shielded too if handy but not a driving requirement) from mic jack to the intercom. Do you have a stick mounted push to talk? Make sure it doesn't get to ground anywhere at connects only to the COMMON and PTT terminals on the mic jack. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405343#405343 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:36 PM PST US From: "Bill Bradburry" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternators on aircraft How often is there a scenario where an aircraft or automobile alternator needs to be balanced? Is this something that needs to be considered? Bill B ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternators on aircraft From: Bill Putney Generally or specifically, never. The only time they give trouble in general is if the bearings are worn out o r if there's a bad diode. Rarely there's problems with bushes since not much current goes through them. They do wear out like everything. Bad bearings a re sometimes the result of an over tightened belt. There's nothing to wear asymmetrically so if they're balanced from the facto ry they're good for life. Bill On Jul 26, 2013, at 13:10, "Bill Bradburry" wrote : > How often is there a scenario where an aircraft or automobile alternator n eeds to be balanced? Is this something that needs to be considered? > > Bill B > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.