AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Thu 08/01/13


Total Messages Posted: 12



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:27 AM - Re: B-lead protection (donjohnston)
     2. 07:01 AM - Re: Re: B-lead protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 07:45 AM - . . . up from the ashes. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 09:01 AM - Re: . . . up from the ashes. ()
     5. 11:22 AM - Re: . . . up from the ashes. (Bill)
     6. 02:10 PM - Re: Heathrow 787 lithium event (Henador Titzoff)
     7. 02:58 PM - Re: . . . up from the ashes. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 04:29 PM - Re: Heathrow 787 lithium event (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 07:41 PM - Re: Heathrow 787 lithium event (Henador Titzoff)
    10. 08:24 PM - Re: Zodiac 601 with Jabiru engine radio noise revisited. (nuckollsr) (Chris)
    11. 11:01 PM - Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    12. 11:04 PM - Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:27:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: B-lead protection
    From: "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com>
    > Here's a 40A MIDI style stocked by Digikey > > http://tinyurl.com/mpudgxu (http://tinyurl.com/mpudgxu) > > and a holder like this > > [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20130731150249.020c51e0@aeroelectric.com.0[/img] > > To mount it can be found here . . . > > http://tinyurl.com/kcbyc79 (http://tinyurl.com/kcbyc79) > How do these compare with the ANLs that B&C sells? Other than being a LOT less money? :) Do they have a greater tolerance? Slower speed (of reaction)? Don't last in a harsh enviroment? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405771#405771


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:01:15 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: B-lead protection
    > >How do these compare with the ANLs that B&C sells? Other than being >a LOT less money? :) Here's the data sheet on MIDI fuses http://tinyurl.com/l985dtj Here's the data on ANL . . http://tinyurl.com/k7o3l3q >Do they have a greater tolerance? Slower speed (of reaction)? Don't >last in a harsh enviroment? The ANL has been around for about 80 years and is still used in new design. Premier was the last airplane we designed with a majority DC power system in it. The distribution panel contains a goodly number of the ANL style limiters. The MIDI's have roots in the automotive industries where we have witnessed a continuous evolution of designs. For example, cartridge glass fusses got replaced by ATC plastics which in turn have been superceded by the ATR micro fuses. All three generations perform to their manufacturer's specs and have been found suited to task in billions of applications. The ANL and MIDI are not drop-in replacements for each other as you can deduce from their performance curves. But the differences are insignificant to our task. The advantage of the more modern design is that they are made in relatively large quantities on automated machines for markets much larger than the markets which nurtured the ANL devices. Until recently (last 10 years or so) the modern replacements for the ANL were not as convenient to acquire. You could find the fuses as after market service parts but holders were more of an OEM item. But now that Digikey has partnered with Bussmann and Littlefuse to distribute them, procurement is much easier. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:45:21 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: . . . up from the ashes.
    Speaking of legacy technologies, I see this item in the Wichita Eagle that Beech's future seems a bit brighter today. http://tinyurl.com/mbryz3m They recently divested themselves of jet products to concentrate on legacy core competencies. A bold move . . . but on a firm technological foundation. Now, if the people who are expected to ride on those airplanes have the means and reason to do so . . . I spent most of my time at Beech on targets and jets. My contractor's badge hasn't expired yet . . . I might have an opportunity now to get more up-close and personal with the machines that built the Beech success story. Bob . . .


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:01:37 AM PST US
    From: <rd2@dejazzd.com>
    Subject: Re: . . . up from the ashes.
    Bob, thanks for sharing this with the list. Time has taught one to b a realist rather than optimist; hope and wish this Wheels Up venture goes well (without Chinese backing; not that I know of any in this case). Thumbs up to Beech! Especially considering that you may be part of this. Rumen Do not archive ---- "Robert L. Nuckolls wrote: ============ Speaking of legacy technologies, I see this item in the Wichita Eagle that Beech's future seems a bit brighter today. http://tinyurl.com/mbryz3m They recently divested themselves of jet products to concentrate on legacy core competencies. A bold move . . . but on a firm technological foundation. Now, if the people who are expected to ride on those airplanes have the means and reason to do so . . . I spent most of my time at Beech on targets and jets. My contractor's badge hasn't expired yet . . . I might have an opportunity now to get more up-close and personal with the machines that built the Beech success story. Bob . . .


    Message 5


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    Time: 11:22:34 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: . . . up from the ashes.
    From: Bill <wtrooper@gmail.com>
    Bob - I imagine a deserved sense of satisfaction on your part - Seeing some promise in this company in which you invested a fair amount of time. Bill SF bay area AEC Seminar, Livermore @1998? On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 7:44 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com**> > > Speaking of legacy technologies, I see this item > in the Wichita Eagle that Beech's future seems > a bit brighter today. > > http://tinyurl.com/mbryz3m > > They recently divested themselves of jet products to > concentrate on legacy core competencies. A bold > move . . . but on a firm technological foundation. > > Now, if the people who are expected to ride on those > airplanes have the means and reason to do so . . . > > I spent most of my time at Beech on targets and > jets. My contractor's badge hasn't expired yet . . . > I might have an opportunity now to get more > up-close and personal with the machines that built > the Beech success story. > > > Bob . . . > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 02:10:21 PM PST US
    From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Heathrow 787 lithium event
    Bob said:=0A=0A- "The difference between failures in the ship's=0A- - system batteries and the ELT battery is profound.=0A-- Root cause for the system batteries was internal=0A-- to the battery and was not par ticularly unique=0A-- to the lithium chemistry . . . all battery=0A- - technologies have suffered separator development=0A-- and quality control problems at one time or=0A-- another.=0A=0A-- The 'simpl e failure' that occurred within the=0A-- battery was elevated in conse quence by the chemistry=0A-- that really likes to burn."=0A=0A=0AWhile I agree with you, Bob, doesn't it sound logical to extensively focus on th is battery technology and make it fool-proof before use, since it has a ten dency to cause such drastic problems?- Look at the evolution of the tank. It started out as petrol (gasoline) machines during WWI and remained so un til Russia faced the Japanese at Nomonhan.- The Japanese had far less tan ks but were still deadly as they burned diesel, which of course doesn't ign ite and burn in the air as easily.- They progressed to turbines, which st ill burn diesel (Jet-A). The world militaries learned to go to a safer fuel , but now Boeing's gone to a more dangerous battery.- Works great until i t decides to catch fire and light up the sky.=0A=0AIn other words, I think it's too early to go to lithium technology in civil aviation unless someone is willing to pay the price of inevitable failures.- This someone is Blo eing.- They haven't done enough testing, in my opinion, and perhaps their design engineering, including their vendors, needs much more scroo-tinee. - I know some of you OBAMers are seething at the teeth to incorporate lit hium batteries in your dream machines.- I just hope you're design and qua lity controls are better than Bloeing's.=0A=0ANote: I do not work for Airbu s, but I did work for Boeing Aerospace for 6 years and loved it.=0A=0A=0AHe nador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matr onics.com =0ASent: Monday, July 29, 2013 11:33 AM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectr ic-List: Heathrow 787 lithium event=0A =0A=0A--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0A=0AA t 05:52 AM 7/29/2013, you wrote:=0ABob, I believe the FAA is requiring that all 787 ELTs be inspected as =0Aa sampling of a larger population in order to derive statistical =0Adata, then regroup and do what's in section Inter im Action:=0A=0A- It may well be . . . but it seems that a=0A- mandat ory service bulletin from Boeing would=0A- do the same thing.=0A=0AIt ju st seems odd that this particular model ELT decided to burn up =0Aon a Drea mLiner and so far, two of its worse problems involve lithium =0Abatteries. Maybe the DreamLiner has more vibration at specific =0Afrequencies than oth er planes, and the ELT is spec'ed =0Aincorrected?- All I know is it's eas ier to blame the little guy than =0Athe big guy, especially when it involve s big corporations and/or =0Agovernment. It won't be long before this airpl ane is called the BadDreamLiner.=0A=0A- The difference between failures in the ship's=0A- system batteries and the ELT battery is profound.=0A - Root cause for the system batteries was internal=0A- to the battery and was not particularly unique=0A- to the lithium chemistry . . . all battery=0A- technologies have suffered separator development=0A- and quality control problems at one time or=0A- another.=0A=0A- The 'simp le failure' that occurred within the=0A- battery was elevated in consequ ence by the chemistry=0A- that really likes to burn.=0A=0A- The failu re in the ELT seems to be a quality control=0A- issue with the routing o f wires outside the batteries=0A- during assembly. Again, the 'simple fa ilure' was=0A- elevated to $high$ miseries by the energetic failure=0A - mode of the lithium batteries . . . but in this=0A- case, the batte ries themselves were performing as=0A- designed and qualified onto the p roduct.=0A=0A- In the first case, we have a failure to meet design=0A- goals in a product with hazardous failure modes. In=0A- the second cas e, the failure seems to reside with=0A- first line supervision in manufa cturing and quality=0A- control of a mature product. The first case is =0A- not excusable but understandable. The second case=0A- (assuming present suppositions are proven true)=0A- boggles the mind.=0A=0A=0AYes, I'm glad I fly OBAM, but it's mostly because of the TSA and all =0Athe sec urity hassles we're subjected to. I don't mind being frisked =0Aby a good l ooking babe, but most of them are Fugly! I asked one if =0Athe TSA paid all the bills, and she said "no, I also work nights at a =0Amasochist masseuse parlor. Here's my business card."=0A=0A- Understand. And I hope my comm ents were not mis-interpreted=0A- by anyone to mean that my global view of hazard for=0A- the air transport industry was pessimistic. Those=0A - guys could loose an airplane a day and still be=0A- statistically s afer than personal automobile.=0A=0A- I am concerned that questions of s uitability to task,=0A- meeting system design goals and having the will =0A- and means to react quickly to serious problems=0A- is bring impe ded by an increasing load of no-value-=0A- added 'activity' dictated by bureaucratic organization=0A- and policy/procedures taking its toll on s kills/=0A- common-sense.=0A=0A- For the moment at least, we're largel y free of such=0A- impediments in the OBAM aviation world.=0A=0A=0A=0A =


    Message 7


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    Time: 02:58:46 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: . . . up from the ashes.
    At 01:21 PM 8/1/2013, you wrote: >Bob - > >I imagine a deserved sense of satisfaction on your part - Seeing >some promise in this company in which you invested a fair amount of time. Yeah, it's sorta like watching some of the things your kids do after they leave home and wondering where you went wrong! But core values, no matter how obscured, can emerge under the right conditions. There were times when I would have thought my children's present achievements were completely out of reach . . . but after 20 years, mom and I couldn't be more pleased. Perhaps there's a spark of resurrection left from this company's legacies. [] Emacs! Just discovered that there was a Model 16 built out in the Liberal facility. It post dates the Model 17 by many years. Only one ever built . . . Olive Ann didn't like it and nixed the program. I'll have to see if any pictures of it still exist. Being a one-of experimental, it seems unlikely. Bob . . .


    Message 8


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    Time: 04:29:51 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Heathrow 787 lithium event
    > >While I agree with you, Bob, doesn't it sound logical to extensively >focus on this battery technology and make it fool-proof before use, >since it has a tendency to cause such drastic problems? It would be interesting to see the analysis of how all the Joules got loose in the ELT . . . If the ELT had been fitted with a NiCad, would the outcome have been different? If a short on internal wiring initiated the event, did some circuit protective device fail to do it's job . . . or was such a device included? Operating life of the ELT battery is something on the order of 120 hours. Hence discharge rate compared to capacity is quite low . . . seems like a simple PTC limiter would have made it impossible to goad the ELT battery into catastrophic self destruction. I'd love to see a schematic of this product along with a failure analysis of just how the event was triggered. Without a doubt, the lithium battery in an ELT offers a huge boost to system reliability. How many ELTs have failed to function because fretting corrosion in the alkaline cell array shut down a perfectly good battery? A hard wired, long shelf life, long service life battery is an elegant solution. I think it's a bit soon to pan this particular lithium product. The ship's system batteries are another matter. The rush to qualification by OEMs from Airbus/Boeing down to the LSA guys seems to have stoked a certification frenzy. I used to know folks at the Navy's Battery Labs in Crane, IN who were willing to tell me anything and everything they knew about battery performance and robustness. I would dearly love to know what, if any, tests have been conducted on these leading edge secondary batteries. If you think the folks on board a 787 are fussy about smoke in the cabin, just run the idea past a submariner! I'm hearing rumbles that separator fabrication technologies are almost but not quite ready for prime time. Seems that there are occasional discontinuities in the separator matrix that encourages exchange of 'bad stuff' between the plates of the cells. This is not unique to lithium products. Folks are looking at time dependent (300-500 hours!) screening techniques to spot cells with risky separators before shipping to reliability critical applications. Who knows, maybe 3M or Monsanto will come up with a new separator material that will make this all go away. It's quite certain now that few technologies in history have experienced so much 'start up' expense. Maybe the B-29 engine development program . . . Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:41:11 PM PST US
    From: Henador Titzoff <henador_titzoff@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Heathrow 787 lithium event
    Bob said:=0A=0A=0A- - "Maybe the B-29 engine development program . . " =0A=0A=0ABob, there are many examples of start up expensive programs, and t hey didn't exactly get put into mass production immediately.- Take the F- 35 program, for example.- I know the guy who ran it for several years. He was one of the best engineers I've ever met, but the program is way over b udget and behind schedule.- Trying to do too much too fast, just like the se lithium batteries.- I hope that separator technology is finally able t o tame lithium technology and make it very reliable.=0A=0ABTW, the F-35 pro gram manager is now working for Spirit Aero. Quite a tumble but no big deal as he's had a great career for decades. Maybe you'll run into him at the l ocal Walmart. :)=0A=0A-=0AHenador Titzoff=0A=0A=0A_______________________ _________=0A From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com >=0ATo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 7 :29 PM=0ASubject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Heathrow 787 lithium event=0A =0A olls.bob@aeroelectric.com>=0A=0A=0A>=0A>While I agree with you, Bob, doesn' t it sound logical to extensively =0A>focus on this battery technology and make it fool-proof before use, =0A>since it has a tendency to cause such dr astic problems?=0A=0A- - It would be interesting to see the analysis of how=0A- - all the Joules got loose in the ELT . . .=0A=0A- - If th e ELT had been fitted with a NiCad, would=0A- - the outcome have been d ifferent? If a short on=0A- - internal wiring initiated the event, did some=0A- - circuit protective device fail to do it's job . . .=0A- - or was such a device included?=0A=0A- - Operating life of the ELT b attery=0A- - is something on the order of 120 hours. Hence=0A- - di scharge rate compared to capacity is quite=0A- - low . . . seems like a simple PTC limiter would=0A- - have made it impossible to goad the ELT battery=0A- - into catastrophic self destruction.=0A=0A- - I'd lov e to see a schematic of this product=0A- - along with a failure analysi s of just how the=0A- - event was triggered.=0A=0A- - Without a dou bt, the lithium battery in an=0A- - ELT offers a huge boost to system r eliability.=0A- - How many ELTs have failed to function because=0A- - fretting corrosion in the alkaline cell=0A- - array shut down a per fectly good battery?=0A=0A- - A hard wired, long shelf life, long servi ce life=0A- - battery is an elegant solution. I think it's=0A- - a bit soon to pan this particular lithium=0A- - product.=0A=0A- - The ship's system batteries are another matter.=0A- - The rush to qualific ation by OEMs from Airbus/Boeing=0A- - down to the LSA guys seems to ha ve stoked=0A- - a certification frenzy.- I used to know folks=0A- - at the Navy's Battery Labs in Crane, IN who=0A- - were willing to t ell me anything and everything=0A- - they knew about battery performanc e and robustness.=0A- - I would dearly love to know what, if any, tests =0A- - have been conducted on these leading edge secondary=0A- - ba tteries.=0A=0A- - If you think the folks on board a 787 are fussy=0A- - about smoke in the cabin, just run the idea past=0A- - a submarine r!=0A=0A- - I'm hearing rumbles that separator fabrication=0A- - te chnologies are almost but not quite ready for=0A- - prime time. Seems t hat there are occasional=0A- - discontinuities in the separator matrix that=0A- - encourages exchange of 'bad stuff' between=0A- - the pla tes of the cells.=0A=0A- - This is not unique to lithium products. Folk s=0A- - are looking at time dependent (300-500 hours!)=0A- - screen ing techniques to spot cells with risky=0A- - separators before shippin g to reliability=0A- - critical applications.=0A=0A- - Who knows, m aybe 3M or Monsanto will come up=0A- - with a new separator material th at will make this=0A- - all go away. It's quite certain now that few=0A - - technologies in history have experienced so=0A- - much 'start u p' expense.=0A=0A- - Maybe the B-29 engine development program . . .=0A ==


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:24:19 PM PST US
    From: "Chris" <fconsult@telus.net>
    Subject: Re: Zodiac 601 with Jabiru engine radio noise revisited.
    (nuckollsr) Hi Bob and All. Thanks for all the help Bob, the Zodiac 601 was test flow today and the Microair radio is working great, no more whine and no noise! Putting in a forest of tabs got rid of all the crackling and popping in the receive mode and isolating the jacks and moving the regulator/rectifier to the positive side of the battery stopped the alternator whine. The owner is no longer badmouthing Microair. Thanks again Chris


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:01:03 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official AeroElectric-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains AeroElectric-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. 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This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "aeroelectric-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the AeroElectric-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all AeroElectric-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the AeroElectric-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * AeroElectric-List.FAQ - Latest version of the AeroElectric-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the AeroElectric-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the AeroElectric-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?AeroElectric ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:04:01 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete AeroElectric-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** AeroElectric-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the AeroElectric-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the AeroElectric-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. AeroElectric-List Policy Statement The purpose of the AeroElectric-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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