Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:53 AM - Re: Re: MIL SPEC spoof (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 04:04 AM - Re: Battery question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 04:26 AM - Re: MIL SPEC spoof (racerjerry)
4. 04:34 AM - Re: Re: roll my own transponder antenna? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 04:44 AM - Re: Re: roll my own transponder antenna? (JOHN TIPTON)
6. 05:01 AM - Re: Re: roll my own transponder antenna? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:54 AM - Invitation to connect on LinkedIn (Thomas Belvin)
8. 07:15 AM - Re: MIL SPEC spoof (Eric M. Jones)
9. 07:38 AM - Re: Battery question (Richard Girard)
10. 08:22 AM - Re: Battery question (Dave Saylor)
11. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: roll my own transponder antenna? (DeWitt Whittington)
12. 12:36 PM - Re: roll my own transponder antenna? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: MIL SPEC spoof (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 01:50 PM - Re: Navman Fuel Flow Meter (Holger Selover-Stephan)
15. 01:58 PM - Re: Battery question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 02:32 PM - Re: Navman Fuel Flow Meter (Charlie England)
17. 03:15 PM - Re: roll my own transponder antenna? (messydeer)
18. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: roll my own transponder antenna? (Tim Andres)
19. 05:43 PM - Re: Navman Fuel Flow Meter (Kelly McMullen)
20. 06:07 PM - Re: Navman Fuel Flow Meter (Ron Walker)
21. 06:53 PM - Re: Navman Fuel Flow Meter (Tim Andres)
22. 08:35 PM - Re: roll my own transponder antenna? (messydeer)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: MIL SPEC spoof |
>I'm curious though as to how one would begin to write a spec which
>took into account "economics and the free market". If you want
>companies to bid, you need spec which is factual, you couldn't just
>say "brownies such as those commonly available in US supermarkets".
Not far wrong I think. In fact, a great many purchases
of repackaged commercial off the shelf products have
been made over the years by government.
The purchase document would call for a quantity of
your commercial product repackaged for needs unique
to the military. Then ask for samples along with
certification that these are the same brownies you
can buy on isle 6 at Piggly Wiggly. There is no
justification for the creation of a cadre' of
micro-czars to craft a specification for a successfully
marketed commodity whether it's a box of bolts or
a bag of brownies.
New development programs have a rich history in
entrepreneurial exercise of off-the-shelf
talents. Lockheed's Skunk Works is only one of
many operations who's successes were achieved
not because but in spite of micro-management
in by bureaucratic specification.
The freedom to operate in a state of "spontaneous
order" which allowed talented folks to make day-by-day
analysis of progress toward a design goal . . .
and turn on a dime if necessary.
http://tinyurl.com/l8yyg3m
http://tinyurl.com/m3zn7wv
I worked in a similar atmosphere at Beech where
we designed and built supersonic and subsonic
targets. Engineering was right above the factory
floor. The division VP was a few steps from my
desk. We had "the book" . . . a set of design
goals from the customer . . . but how were got
there was largely up to the closely cooperative
broadly based collection of talents that made
up our manufacturing, engineering and management staff.
If somebody on the factory floor discovered a
problem or had a idea for making a thing better.
Consideration, decision and implementation of
a useful change was not months or years away but
mere days or weeks based on cooperation and agreement
of the cognizant talents.
I think our engineering meetings were modeled
after Kelly Johnson's frequent "how goes it"
meetings with his engineers and craftsmen.
The point is that an honorable free-market exchange
of value conducted in an atmosphere of spontaneous
order existed all the way from the day the customer
handed us 'the book' to the day the product was
launched with goals that it prove/disprove/improve
the value weapons systems used against them.
The things discussed here on the List are similarly
motivated and organized. We exploit the experience and
talents of many individuals striving for the elegant
solution to design goals. Each of you operates your
own skunk works. The success of your efforts is
bounded by how well you can sift through ideas and
make changes, not by marching in lock-step to artificially
generated and mandated specification by individuals
who couldn't begin to do what it is that you do
best.
Bob . . .
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Battery question |
At 10:10 PM 8/5/2013, you wrote:
My understanding is that it takes at least 13.8 volts to charge a 12
volt battery.
Last Sunday I was using a Schumacher SC 8010A to charge a 12 volt 20
a.h. AGM battery. The charger started out at 12.5 volts and gradually
climbed until after an hour the display was reading 15.5 volts. I
disconnected the charger even though when I selected percent of
charge it indicated 71 % charged. I used a Fluke VOM to check the
battery and it indicated 15.4 volts. The battery was not even warm to
the touch so I put the charger back on and continued charging until
the battery was at 95% charge at which time the charger was still at
15.5 volts. The battery was barely warm to the touch. Again, with
battery disconnected from the charger it tested at 15.4 volts. The
battery seemed to work normally when we attempted to start the engine.
An idealized automated battery charging profile looks
like this:
http://tinyurl.com/k6xr9mk
As a practical matter, there are variations on
the theme that will produce a family of recharge
profiles
http://tinyurl.com/m3o6mtu
Why would the charger charge at such a rate?
Probably because it was conforming to design goals
Why would a 12V battery test at 15.4 volts?
Because you measured the voltage too soon. The
REAL voltage representing state of charge can
be measured only after the battery has been
disconnected the charger for several hours.
If the battery is healthy, something on the order
of 12.8 to 13.0 volts for a fully charged open
circuit value.
Bob . . .
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: MIL SPEC spoof |
> There is no
> justification for the creation of a cadre' of
> micro-czars to craft a specification for a successfully
> marketed commodity whether it's a box of bolts or
> a bag of brownies.
Agreed Unless, of course, you are a bureaucrat trying to build your empire at
hideous taxpayer expense. We dont have any of those, do we?
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406033#406033
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: roll my own transponder antenna? |
At 09:23 AM 8/5/2013, you wrote:
>
>Well, that cheap TED xpdr antenna is backordered. I came up with a
>few different lengths, googling. The diagram below shows it's ~2.5"
>from the ground plane (aluminum skin). Also read on the sequair site
>it would be 3.1", but that could be for a non-aluminum plane.
>
>http://www.seqair.com/skunkworks/Antennas/TpxAntProbs/TpxAntProbs.html
There's a host of observed effects not all of which
are significant. When you see an SWR plot like this . . .
Emacs!
all those peaks and valleys are artifacts of effects
OTHER than the antenna itself. The plots achieved
later
Emacs!
were MUCH smoother and had a a deep 'dip' toward
1:1 SWR at the frequency of interest.
The article properly identifies the need for TIGHT
electrical connection between the various components,
preferably soldered.
The 2.9" figure for overall length above the ground
plane is fine. The article fails to mention that the
'resonant ground plane' has a radius equal to the
height of the antenna or a diameter of 5.8". Alternatively
you go with the non-resonant ground plane (like a belly
skin) were exact dimensions are LARGE compared to
2.9" but operationally insignificant.
The thing about every antenna needing to be tailored
to an installation is bogus. Early transponders used
a one-tube transmitter consisting of an pencil triode
as an oscillator operating at a frequency controlled
by a resonant cavity.
Emacs!
These transponders could be 'pulled' off-frequency by
the effects of antennas. Modern, solid state transponders
are not so afflicted.
If you're building for a non-metalic airplane, 2.9"
is the magic number for antenna length and radius
of a ground plane. For a metal airplane, go for 2.9"
antenna on an 'infinite' ground plane.
In any case, metallic joints should be electrically
'tight' . . . solder is good. You can pick up one
of these for about $20 shipping included.
Emacs!
http://tinyurl.com/lulfq5z
You would mount this on a 2.9" radius disk for use
in wood or plastic airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: roll my own transponder antenna? |
Would two units be a good idea, as a 'dipole' - one to ground (sleeve)
lead
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: roll my own transponder antenna?
At 09:23 AM 8/5/2013, you wrote:
<messydeer@yahoo.com>
Well, that cheap TED xpdr antenna is backordered. I came up with a
few different lengths, googling. The diagram below shows it's ~2.5" from
the ground plane (aluminum skin). Also read on the sequair site it would
be 3.1", but that could be for a non-aluminum plane.
http://www.seqair.com/skunkworks/Antennas/TpxAntProbs/TpxAntProbs.html
There's a host of observed effects not all of which
are significant. When you see an SWR plot like this . . .
all those peaks and valleys are artifacts of effects
OTHER than the antenna itself. The plots achieved
later
were MUCH smoother and had a a deep 'dip' toward
1:1 SWR at the frequency of interest.
The article properly identifies the need for TIGHT
electrical connection between the various components,
preferably soldered.
The 2.9" figure for overall length above the ground
plane is fine. The article fails to mention that the
'resonant ground plane' has a radius equal to the
height of the antenna or a diameter of 5.8". Alternatively
you go with the non-resonant ground plane (like a belly
skin) were exact dimensions are LARGE compared to
2.9" but operationally insignificant.
The thing about every antenna needing to be tailored
to an installation is bogus. Early transponders used
a one-tube transmitter consisting of an pencil triode
as an oscillator operating at a frequency controlled
by a resonant cavity.
These transponders could be 'pulled' off-frequency by
the effects of antennas. Modern, solid state transponders
are not so afflicted.
If you're building for a non-metalic airplane, 2.9"
is the magic number for antenna length and radius
of a ground plane. For a metal airplane, go for 2.9"
antenna on an 'infinite' ground plane.
In any case, metallic joints should be electrically
'tight' . . . solder is good. You can pick up one
of these for about $20 shipping included.
http://tinyurl.com/lulfq5z
You would mount this on a 2.9" radius disk for use
in wood or plastic airplane.
Bob . . .
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: roll my own transponder antenna? |
At 06:43 AM 8/6/2013, you wrote:
>Would two units be a good idea, as a 'dipole' - one to ground (sleeve) lead
Sure, it's been done.
http://tinyurl.com/n5ac7zt
this antenna has limited applicability in
wood/plastic airplanes only and mounted
on the side of the fuselage. Check out
the SWR plot.
Transponder (TPX)/DME Antenna, for Composite Aircraft
The large area, small aspect ratio antenna elements
account for the broad-band performance.
Bob . . .
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Invitation to connect on LinkedIn |
LinkedIn
------------
I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.
- Thomas
Thomas Belvin
Independent Machinery Professional
Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina Area
Confirm that you know Thomas Belvin:
https://www.linkedin.com/e/-7hsi75-hk164s91-15/isd/15572319604/rubPRldA/?hs=false&tok=18ffedlkgxUBQ1
--
You are receiving Invitation to Connect emails. Click to unsubscribe:
http://www.linkedin.com/e/-7hsi75-hk164s91-15/5JpN31bMiEhgKj2P554BMKMjiE_sJhkc5ikNWCs302Q4E2BJJJbUapQc/goo/aeroelectric-list-digest%40matronics%2Ecom/20061/I5182482300_1/?hs=false&tok=0ozMKQDBMxUBQ1
(c) 2012 LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct, Mountain View, CA 94043, USA.
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: MIL SPEC spoof |
> This is true, but on the other hand, who needs a 100 page Brownie
> spec generously sprinkled with references to other regulations on every
> page, to the point that a "Philadelphia Lawyer" has a problem with
> interpretation.
>
> The proliferation of rules and regulations only speeds the growth of government
and encourages the decline of personal honesty and integrity. Roger
do not archive
The entire document is only 23 pages, not 100, which includes the specification
for the packaging and a page which you can submit to improve the specification.
A jewel of brevity and conciseness. You can't include the accessory documents
in your condemnation unless you plan to go into those other businesses too.
People who think this spells the end of civilization need to get a life! If I were
ordering fifty-million brownies for the troops, I would damned sure refer
to this document and use it. For those of you who think a promise, a handshake,
a smile, and a salute to the flag would get the job done...Let us know how that
works out for you.
Most engineers and business people understand that a blueprint or an order comprises
a legal document; That's why there's a signature on it.
Hey! I'd love to live in a world where "personal honesty and integrity" rule and
everyone delivers precisely what I want, but even without guile, a description
of exactly what I require can be longer than you might like.
I don't do so much paperwork now, and a lot of that is in cyberspace, but in my
working career I delivered 90-page change orders, and electrical approval documents
that had to be wheeled in.
We live in a complicated world. Don't get so upset. In WWII when GM took over the
production of Wright-Cyclone motors, the GM engineers made over 10,000 changes
in one month...all done by hand.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406045#406045
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Battery question |
Thanks All, This was my first go 'round with a smart charger. Always good
to learn something.
Rick
do not archive
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> My understanding is that it takes at least 13.8 volts to charge a 12 volt
> battery.
> Last Sunday I was using a Schumacher SC 8010A to charge a 12 volt 20 a.h.
> AGM battery. The charger started out at 12.5 volts and gradually climbed
> until after an hour the display was reading 15.5 volts. I disconnected the
> charger even though when I selected percent of charge it indicated 71 %
> charged. I used a Fluke VOM to check the battery and it indicated 15.4
> volts. The battery was not even warm to the touch so I put the charger back
> on and continued charging until the battery was at 95% charge at which time
> the charger was still at 15.5 volts. The battery was barely warm to the
> touch. Again, with battery disconnected from the charger it tested at 15.4
> volts. The battery seemed to work normally when we attempted to start the
> engine.
> Why would the charger charge at such a rate?
> Why would a 12V battery test at 15.4 volts?
>
> Rick Girard
>
> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Battery question |
Bob, can you comment on Odyssey's requirement to keep the charge below 15
volts? See page 6:
http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-OM-011_0213.pdf
This requirement has also been given to me by phone on a few occasions.
My understanding is that the battery has to see some extended time above 15
volts to cause any ill effects, particularly off-gassing. Does the SC 8010A
drop below 15 quickly enough to avoid off-gassing, or would it be
considered inappropriate for Odyssey batteries?
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: roll my own transponder antenna? |
Bob,
We've mounted the Bob Archer transponder antenna you picture just aft of
Bulkhead B on the right side of the fuselage in our Sportsman 2+2. We
haven't flown yet (gosh, going on 9 1/2 years of building) but we hope it
works well. If we buckle down first flight will be this fall.
Dee
N18TA reserved
DeWitt (Dee) Whittington
804-677-4849 iPhone
804-358-4333 Home
www.VirginiaFlyIn.org
Building Glasair Sportsman with 3 partners
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:
> At 06:43 AM 8/6/2013, you wrote:
>
> Would two units be a good idea, as a 'dipole' - one to ground (sleeve) lead
>
>
> Sure, it's been done.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/n5ac7zt
>
>
> this antenna has limited applicability in
> wood/plastic airplanes only and mounted
> on the side of the fuselage. Check out
> the SWR plot.
>
>
> [image: Transponder (TPX)/DME Antenna, for Composite Aircraft]
> The large area, small aspect ratio antenna elements
> account for the broad-band performance.
>
>
> **
>
> ** Bob . . .
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: roll my own transponder antenna? |
At 10:33 PM 8/4/2013, you wrote:
>
>Hey :-)
>
>I rolled my own comm antenna a couple years ago. Antenna worked
>okay, but the location caused RFI, so I bought one and mounted it in
>a different location. This homemade com antenna could be cut down
>and used for my transponder antenna.
>
>But, how long do I cut it? Also heard about not being able to check
>swr in the xpdr freq range, so if I mess up, it could ruin my unit.
>ACS sells the antenna for $18, so if there's any doubt, I'd go that way.
A comm antenna design is generally more robust at
the base to accommodate the wind and vibration loads
of the larger antenna. Further, the value of keeping
VERY short leads outside the coax world is not so
critical. Unless you can measure and trim for low
VSWR in your modified antenna, there is risk of failing
to meet design goals.
Bob . . .
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: MIL SPEC spoof |
The entire document is only 23 pages, not 100, which includes the
specification for the packaging and a page which you can submit to
improve the specification. A jewel of brevity and conciseness. You
can't include the accessory documents in your condemnation unless you
plan to go into those other businesses too.
You missed/ignored points offered that spoke to
the necessity for citing the applicable paragraphs
for a referenced document. It's lazy and economically
hazardous writing to simply throw a bevy of reference
specs into a purchase requirement. You end up with a
package that nobody can hope to comply with . . . and
if they did, the cost of your brownies would have a
multiplier for the support of useless labor.
People who think this spells the end of civilization need to get a
life! If I were ordering fifty-million brownies for the troops, I
would damned sure refer to this document and use it. For those of you
who think a promise, a handshake, a smile, and a salute to the flag
would get the job done...Let us know how that works out for you.
What evidence have you seen demonstrating that the honorable
supplier to a purchase requirement performs any better
when every detail of the task is listed in black and white?
The flip side of the coin asks, what evidence supports
the notion that a dishonorable supplier's behaviors
will become golden for having pledged to deliver
to a constellation of micro-managing documents?
Compare the Eggenfellner engine experience and
Bede airplanes with say Van's, Zodiac, and other honorable
contemporaries. I submit that Jan and Jim would
have been no more successful had they been marching
to a "brownie spec" nor did the efforts of Dick
and Chris suffer for lack of such documents.
Most engineers and business people understand that a blueprint or an
order comprises a legal document; That's why there's a signature on it.
Hey! I'd love to live in a world where "personal honesty and
integrity" rule and everyone delivers precisely what I want, but even
without guile, a description of exactly what I require can be longer
than you might like.
There's a difference between a "guide" (what I've
called design goals) and the vague, intrusive,
constricting imperatives administrated by individuals
who haven't got a clue. Yes, your design goals
should describe the intended purchase to the
extent that it defines outcome.
Would you dump "brownie spec" style requirements
on your neurosurgeon . . . or does it suffice
to compare his demonstrated track record with your
desired outcome and shake hands over an agreement
to accept the best he knows how to do for the
purposes of mitigating your problem?
I don't do so much paperwork now, and a lot of that is in cyberspace,
but in my working career I delivered 90-page change orders, and
electrical approval documents that had to be wheeled in.
We live in a complicated world. Don't get so upset.
Who's upset? I think most of this discussion
has been a cooly calculated, simple recitation of facts
and observable cause-effect pairs.
In WWII when GM took over the production of Wright-Cyclone motors,
the GM engineers made over 10,000 changes in one month...all done by hand.
I think it was Chrysler-Dodge that took on the
task but you've made my point. Were any company
charged with sorting out the same problems with that
engine design today, the spontaneous order
successes of competent individuals would not be
allowed to do what they do best. The war would
be over before the engine became weapon-worthy.
We would flog ourselves to defeat with our own
specs.
150 years ago de Tocqueville wrote:
"After having thus taken each individual one by one into its powerful
hands, and having molded him as it pleases, the sovereign power
extends its arms over the entire society; it covers the surface of
society with a network of small, complicated, minute, and uniform
rules, which the most original minds and the most vigorous souls
cannot break through to go beyond the crowd; it does not break wills,
but it softens them, bends them and directs them; it rarely forces
action, but it constantly opposes your acting; it does not destroy,
it prevents birth; it does not tyrannize, it hinders, it represses,
it enervates, it extinguishes, it stupifies, and finally it reduces
each nation to being nothing more than a flock of timid and
industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd."
We've watched it happen in aviation. The phenomenon
now touches everything we buy with ever increasing
weight. The only sector of the labor market that
has zero unemployment in the United States is
civil service and that job market grows daily.
Millions of no-value-added administrative-state
public-servants (there's an oxymoron!) preside
over brownie specs and hundreds of thousands of
documents like it. It's de Tocqueville's hypothesis
in action.
All it will take ia a high profile 'incident' in
OBAM aviation to bring de Tocqueville's hypothesis
to our workshops, hangars and airplanes orchestrated
by FAA, DEA, DHS, ATF, EPA . . . or probably all
of them. I see no trends that argue with that hypothesis.
Perhaps you can enlighten me?
do not archive
Bob . . .
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Navman Fuel Flow Meter |
Hi Joel,
When searching for a metal housing transducer, have you looked at the
'Red Cube': http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/eift60.php ?
Oh, the price went down $10! Anyway, it's what some of the RV crowd is
using. If you go to http://www.vansairforce.com , there are lots of
discussions around it in the forum. Here's a thread that discusses the
best installation location:
http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?34031-fuel-flow-sensor-installation
. The technical documentation says no additional pressure drop with
blocked rotor.
Buddy has the FlowScan 201A-6:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/mglfuelflowsensor.php
installed and is happy with it. When I asked about a blocked rotor he
said there is an increased pressure drop, but minimal and not affecting
operations, at least on the paper.
Holger
On 7/31/13 3:52 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
> <ventura@brandeis.edu>
>
> This is a post I made on one of the canard lists a couple months ago.
> I got no response
> there, so I thought someone here might have some information. First a
> little background.
> A member of that canard list posted a Navman fuel flow meter for sale
> on the list,
> and a well respected member of that list condemned the use of that
> flow meter in aircraft
> because it uses a plastic housing in its flow transducer, and at least
> one pilot was killed
> when that housing failed, feeding large amounts of fuel to an inflight
> fire.
>
> =======================================================
>
> First I want to thank Marc for his strong condemnation of the Navman
> Fuel Flow Meter. ..
Message 15
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Battery question |
At 10:20 AM 8/6/2013, you wrote:
>Bob, can you comment on Odyssey's requirement to
>keep the charge below 15 volts? =C2 See page 6:
>
><http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-OM-011_0213.pdf>http://www.
odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-OM-011_0213.pdf
>
>This requirement has also been given to me by phone on a few occasions.
>
>My understanding is that the battery has to see
>some extended time above 15 volts to cause any
>ill effects, particularly off-gassing. Does the=C2
>SC 8010A drop below 15 quickly enough to avoid
>off-gassing, or would it be considered inappropriate for Odyssey batteries?
>
>Dave Saylor
>831-750-0284 CL
Have no idea my friend. Haven't tested it. Here's a chance
for you to make a mark in the understanding of the various
batteries and their accessories.
If you acquired this (or something like it)
http://tinyurl.com/lv2d6r4
you could hook your charger to a run-down battery and
plot the recharge curve. I think I have an idea for
how this critter could also watch the recharge current
curve as well.
The DAS would let you do data gathering in flight
tests too.
With respect to Odyssy's user data, I don't know
why they would be any more vulnerable to service
life degradation due to top-off protocols than
any other manufacturer. ALL of them would like
to see their recharge cycles stay at or below
15 volts . . . In fact, I've been disappointed
that Schumacher hasn't upgraded their charger
designs to do the idealize profile with a top-off
to be pegged at 14.8 volts and held until charge
current drops to 100 mA.
If you deep cycled your Odyssey battery and
hit it every time with the "too hot" Schumacher
charger every time, I think the deep cycle treatment
would be harder on the battery than the aggressive
top-off. Under ideal conditions, a ship's battery
NEVER sees a recharge from deep discharge so
top-off protocols become moot. The few times
that accident or circumstance demands a hot
top-off shouldn't be a big event in the battery's
service life.
But it would be very interesting to know how
that charger behaves when paired with your particular
battery. If top-off plateau is higher than specified,
then the time required for the recharge current to
fall below the sustain decision point will be stretched
out . . . wonder by how much?
Bob . . .
Message 16
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Navman Fuel Flow Meter |
I certainly wouldn't run a plastic transducer on the pressurized side on
a fuel injected engine, but not all things plastic are always bad (as
you apparently know, if you're posting on the canard list). The plastic
transducers are typically used in both off-road vehicles and boats. They
seem to survive in marine environments, which are just as hostile as
a/c, and almost as dangerous. Running one on the cool side of the
firewall on a carb'd engine is worth looking at. There are several other
brands of marine fuel flow meters that have seen successful use in a/c.
(I've been running a Lowrance model in an RV-4 for years.)
Charlie
On 08/06/2013 03:50 PM, Holger Selover-Stephan wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> When searching for a metal housing transducer, have you looked at the
> 'Red Cube': http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/eift60.php ?
> Oh, the price went down $10! Anyway, it's what some of the RV crowd is
> using. If you go to http://www.vansairforce.com , there are lots of
> discussions around it in the forum. Here's a thread that discusses the
> best installation location:
> http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?34031-fuel-flow-sensor-installation
> . The technical documentation says no additional pressure drop with
> blocked rotor.
>
> Buddy has the FlowScan 201A-6:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/mglfuelflowsensor.php
> installed and is happy with it. When I asked about a blocked rotor he
> said there is an increased pressure drop, but minimal and not
> affecting operations, at least on the paper.
>
> Holger
>
>
> On 7/31/13 3:52 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
>> <ventura@brandeis.edu>
>>
>> This is a post I made on one of the canard lists a couple months
>> ago. I got no response
>> there, so I thought someone here might have some information. First a
>> little background.
>> A member of that canard list posted a Navman fuel flow meter for sale
>> on the list,
>> and a well respected member of that list condemned the use of that
>> flow meter in aircraft
>> because it uses a plastic housing in its flow transducer, and at
>> least one pilot was killed
>> when that housing failed, feeding large amounts of fuel to an
>> inflight fire.
>>
>> =======================================================
>>
>> First I want to thank Marc for his strong condemnation of the Navman
>> Fuel Flow Meter. ..
>
Message 17
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: roll my own transponder antenna? |
Thanks, Bob :-)
I bought one of those $20 ones off ebay yesterday. If I get antsy, get my xpdr
installed and want it tested for mode C before it arrives in the mail, I'll cut
down my homebuilt antenna to 2.9".
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406092#406092
Message 18
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: roll my own transponder antenna? |
I probably missed part of the discussion but why are we trying to home brew a
transponder antenna when you can buy one for $20?
ACS or Steinair both sell one that works great. http://www.steinair.com/stor
e.cfm?tlcatid=45
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 6, 2013, at 3:15 PM, "messydeer" <messydeer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Bob :-)
>
> I bought one of those $20 ones off ebay yesterday. If I get antsy, get my x
pdr installed and want it tested for mode C before it arrives in the mail, I
'll cut down my homebuilt antenna to 2.9".
>
> --------
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406092#406092
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
>
>
>
Message 19
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Navman Fuel Flow Meter |
The transducer he suggested is not "plastic". It probably does have a
plastic turbine wheel inside, but it is the certified fuel flow
transducer from Electronics International with all metal case.
On 8/6/2013 2:31 PM, Charlie England wrote:
> I certainly wouldn't run a plastic transducer on the pressurized side
> on a fuel injected engine, but not all things plastic are always bad
> (as you apparently know, if you're posting on the canard list). The
> plastic transducers are typically used in both off-road vehicles and
> boats. They seem to survive in marine environments, which are just as
> hostile as a/c, and almost as dangerous. Running one on the cool side
> of the firewall on a carb'd engine is worth looking at. There are
> several other brands of marine fuel flow meters that have seen
> successful use in a/c. (I've been running a Lowrance model in an RV-4
> for years.)
>
> Charlie
>
>
> On 08/06/2013 03:50 PM, Holger Selover-Stephan wrote:
>> Hi Joel,
>>
>> When searching for a metal housing transducer, have you looked at the
>> 'Red Cube': http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/eift60.php
>> ? Oh, the price went down $10! Anyway, it's what some of the RV crowd
>> is using. If you go to http://www.vansairforce.com , there are lots
>> of discussions around it in the forum. Here's a thread that discusses
>> the best installation location:
>> http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?34031-fuel-flow-sensor-installation
>> . The technical documentation says no additional pressure drop with
>> blocked rotor.
>>
>> Buddy has the FlowScan 201A-6:
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/mglfuelflowsensor.php
>> installed and is happy with it. When I asked about a blocked rotor he
>> said there is an increased pressure drop, but minimal and not
>> affecting operations, at least on the paper.
>>
>> Holger
>>
>>
>> On 7/31/13 3:52 PM, Joel Ventura wrote:
>>> <ventura@brandeis.edu>
>>>
>>> This is a post I made on one of the canard lists a couple months
>>> ago. I got no response
>>> there, so I thought someone here might have some information. First
>>> a little background.
>>> A member of that canard list posted a Navman fuel flow meter for
>>> sale on the list,
>>> and a well respected member of that list condemned the use of that
>>> flow meter in aircraft
>>> because it uses a plastic housing in its flow transducer, and at
>>> least one pilot was killed
>>> when that housing failed, feeding large amounts of fuel to an
>>> inflight fire.
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>> First I want to thank Marc for his strong condemnation of the Navman
>>> Fuel Flow Meter. ..
>>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 20
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Navman Fuel Flow Meter |
On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 17:41 -0700, Kelly McMullen wrote:
> <kellym@aviating.com>
>
> The transducer he suggested is not "plastic".
I think Charlie was referring to the OP discussing the "Navman Fuel Flow
Meter" ... which is certainly plastic. I've been running one in my RV7a
for 10 yrs (carbureted O-360) without incident. I had to re-read a few
posts to understand that myself, since I agree that the red cube is
certainly not plastic, and is what I'm using in my 10.
--Ron
Message 21
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Navman Fuel Flow Meter |
This may be of interest to those running a Navman flow sensor.
No horse in this race, but its worth reading I think.
http://www.cozybuilders.org/Glenn_Saunders/Complete_Report.pdf
Tim
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 6, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Ron Walker <n520tx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 17:41 -0700, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> <kellym@aviating.com>
>>
>> The transducer he suggested is not "plastic".
>
> I think Charlie was referring to the OP discussing the "Navman Fuel Flow
> Meter" ... which is certainly plastic. I've been running one in my RV7a
> for 10 yrs (carbureted O-360) without incident. I had to re-read a few
> posts to understand that myself, since I agree that the red cube is
> certainly not plastic, and is what I'm using in my 10.
>
> --Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: roll my own transponder antenna? |
I'm disappointed to report that I couldn't solder the coax to the adapter fitting.
I got the core soldered okay, but the braid stumped me. Solder would stick
to the braid, but not the fitting. Think it's such a big heat sink. I was afraid
to hold the iron on the braid too long for fear of melting the insulation.
But I guess if it's not hot enough for the solder to stick to the fitting, it's
not going to melt the plastic?
--------
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406115#406115
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|