AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Fri 08/09/13


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:11 AM - Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (user9253)
     2. 06:27 AM - WWII B17 Survival Story (Bill Bradburry)
     3. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Paul Kuntz)
     4. 11:12 AM - Ground block (faston vs. ring) (donjohnston)
     5. 12:14 PM - Fw: How to test a battery (Robert Borger)
     6. 02:05 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Ken)
     7. 03:39 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (pestar)
     8. 04:09 PM - Re: Ground block (faston vs. ring) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 04:12 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    10. 05:22 PM - Re: Fw: How to test a battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 05:22 PM - Re: Ground block (faston vs. ring) (donjohnston)
    12. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    13. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    14. 08:58 PM - Re: Operating, installation, service manuals (Sacha)
 
 
 


Message 1


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:11:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out
    From: "user9253" <fransew@GMAIL.COM>
    I have a RV-12 with Rotax 912 engine. The voltage regulator can be damaged by excessive heat. A fan that circulates warm air might not be enough. Van's Aircraft sells an aluminum shroud that is pop riveted to the fins of the voltage regulator. Cooling Shroud part number F-00002 $10. Blast Tube "DUCT CBT-5/8" connects to the Cooling Shroud. $3.95 per foot. http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi See page 40-14 of this document for installation instructions: http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-12/Section_40.pdf Joe -------- Joe Gores Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406294#406294


    Message 2


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 06:27:55 AM PST US
    From: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: WWII B17 Survival Story
    Incredible account of mid-air collision of our B-17 with a German fighter aircraft and its miraculous completion of the bombing mission and return flight back to England. The Entire crew not only survived but suffered no injuries! Description: Description: http://touchofheavenyardart.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/in_god_we_tru st.27144840_std.jpg Interesting pictures at the end, unbelievable story! This is an amazing story with photos that will have you muttering "Impossible." WWII B17 Survival Story Description: Description: cid:1.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Description: Description: cid:2.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com B-17 in 1943 A mid-air collision on February 1, 1943, between a B-17 and a German fighter over the Tunis dock area, became the subject of one of the most famous photographs of World War II. An enemy fighter attacking a 97th Bomb Group formation went out of control, probably with a wounded pilot then continued its crashing descent into the rear of the fuselage of a Fortress named All American, piloted by Lt. Kendrick R. Bragg, of the 414th Bomb Squadron. When it struck, the fighter broke apart, but left some pieces in the B-17. The left horizontal stabilizer of the Fortress and left elevator were completely torn away. The two right engines were out and one on the left had a serious oil pump leak. The vertical fin and the rudder had been damaged, the fuselage had been cut almost completely through connected only at two small parts of the frame, and the radios, electrical and oxygen systems were damaged. There was also a hole in the top that was over 16 feet long and 4 feet wide at its widest, and the split in the fuselage went all the way to the top gunners turret. Although the tail actually bounced and swayed in the wind and twisted when the plane turned, and all the control cables were severed except one single elevator cable still worked, and the aircraft still flew - miraculously! The tail gunner was trapped because there was no floor connecting the tail to the rest of the plane. The waist and tail gunners used parts of the German fighter and their own parachute harnesses in an attempt to keep the tail from ripping off and the two sides of the fuselage from splitting apart. While the crew was trying to keep the bomber from coming apart, the pilot continued on his bomb run and released his bombs over the target. When the bomb bay doors were opened, the wind turbulence was so great that it blew one of the waist gunners into the broken tail section. It took several minutes and four crew members to pass him ropes from parachutes and haul him back into the forward part of the plane. When they tried to do the same for the tail gunner, the tail began flapping so hard that it began to break off. The weight of the gunner was adding some stability to the tail section, so he went back to his position. The turn back toward England had to be very slow to keep the tail from twisting off. They actually covered almost 70 miles to make the turn home. The bomber was so badly damaged that it was losing altitude and speed and was soon alone in the sky. For a brief time, two more Me-109 German fighters attacked the All American. Despite the extensive damage, all of the machine gunners were able to respond to these attacks and soon drove off the fighters. The two waist gunners stood up with their heads sticking out through the hole in the top of the fuselage to aim and fire their machine guns. The tail gunner had to shoot in short bursts because the recoil was actually causing the plane to turn. Allied P-51 fighters intercepted the All American as it crossed over the Channel and took one of the pictures shown. They also radioed to the base describing that the empennage was waving like a fish tail, that the plane would not make it and to send out boats to rescue the crew when they bailed out. The fighters stayed with the Fortress taking hand signals from Lt. Bragg and relaying them to the base. Lt. Bragg signaled that 5 parachutes and the spare had been "used" so five of the crew could not bail out. He made the decision that if they could not bail out safely, then he would stay with the plane and land it. Two and a half hours after being hit, the aircraft made its final turn to line up with the runway while it was still over 40 miles away. It descended into an emergency landing and a normal roll-out on its landing gear. When the ambulance pulled alongside, it was waved off because not a single member of the crew had been injured. No one could believe that the aircraft could still fly in such a condition. The Fortress sat placidly until the crew all exited through the door in the fuselage and the tail gunner had climbed down a ladder, at which time the entire rear section of the aircraft collapsed onto the ground. The rugged old bird had done its job. Description: Description: cid:3.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Description: Description: cid:4.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Description: Description: cid:5.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Description: Description: cid:6.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.comDescription: Description: cid:7.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Description: Description: cid:8.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.comDescription: Description: cid:9.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Pass this on to someone you know will appreciate this story. God was definitely with these guys. Remember to pray for our troops


    Message 3


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 10:56:13 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out
    From: Paul Kuntz <paul.r.kuntz@gmail.com>
    Thanks for the tip. I'll check this cooling shroud idea. I'm also wondering if my regulator has already been compromised. Any opinions on what my repeated fail/recover situation indicates? I would guess that it cycled between failed and recovered 8 or 10 times before we established a state where it stayed on line, limited to a total current draw of 3 amps. Paul On Friday, August 9, 2013, user9253 wrote: > > > > I have a RV-12 with Rotax 912 engine. The voltage regulator can be > damaged by excessive heat. A fan that circulates warm air might not be > enough. > Van's Aircraft sells an aluminum shroud that is pop riveted to the fins > of the voltage regulator. > Cooling Shroud part number F-00002 $10. > Blast Tube "DUCT CBT-5/8" connects to the Cooling Shroud. $3.95 per foot. > http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi > See page 40-14 of this document for installation instructions: > http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-12/Section_40.pdf > Joe > > -------- > Joe Gores > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406294#406294 > >


    Message 4


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 11:12:10 AM PST US
    Subject: Ground block (faston vs. ring)
    From: "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com>
    I need a firewall passthrough ground block. I was thinking of using ring terminals because... it seemed like a good idea? :) But looking at B&C, Steinair, etc., it seems like everyone is selling faston connectors. Just wondering if there is an inherent reason for faston over ring. And if I decide to go with ring terminals anyway, I was going to get a block of brass, drill and tap it so that I end up with the ring version of the faston style. And what about dissimilar metal corrosion? Is it recommended to place something between the ground block and the metal side of the firewall? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406350#406350


    Message 5


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 12:14:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Fwd: How to test a battery
    From: Robert Borger <rlborger@mac.com>
    'Lectric-List folks, Your commentary on this test would be appreciated. Best regards, Robert Borger, Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: >> Interesting. I have never heard of this. >> >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_m6p99l6ME >>>


    Message 6


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 02:05:14 PM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out
    Paul I would consider 12.5 volts to be a no charging situation but like you I'd also expect it to slowly drop further. Your 13.8 volts is also pretty low to reasonably recharge a battery unless perhaps you are frequently flying long trips in hot temperatures. If you believe your voltmeter to be accurate, I'd indeed suggest a new regulator however the intermittent nature of the fluctuations could also indicate a poor connection. The John Deere PM regulator is rated at 20 amps and has served me well (with a 20 amp alternator) on the cabin side of the firewall although mine is mounted on a bracket about a half inch from the firewall to let air circulate under it. I am not familiar with the rotax regulator but I would consider a unit that needs air blast on it in the cabin to be way too marginal for reliable service. Ken On 09/08/2013 12:46 AM, Paul Kuntz wrote: > I have a homebuilt Pipistrel Sinus with a Rotax 912 UL that I flew to > Oshkosh and back last week. The panel has a dual Dynon Skyview > display with two-axis autopilot, plus radio and transponder. The total > electrical load with everything running is 7 to 8 amps. Occasionally it > can go to 9 or 10 amps if I'm charging cell phone and iPad en route. > I'm pretty confident that I have the electrical system wired so that > the ammeter is measuring the total electrical load. > > The alternator dropped out once on the outbound trip, but came back > after removing the iPad charging load. The symptom was a voltage drop > from 13.8 volts to 12.5 volts, which seemed strange. On preflight the > voltage may read that high for a minute or so on a freshly-charged > battery, but it quickly drops to 12.2 or 12.1 volts. In flight, the > voltage would drop to 12.5 volts and stay there for several minutes. I > would think that if the alternator had failed, I'd see the voltage drop > to the same 12.1 volts that I see on preflight, and keep dropping > slowly. I can't see why it would drop to 12.5 volts and stay there, > unless the voltage regulator is failing in a way that I'm not familiar with. > > The alternator dropped out (same symptoms) a few times on the trip back, > but by reducing the load to 3 amps (one Skyview display, radio and > transponder), it stayed on line except for awhile when it seemed that > the mid-day sun shining on the dashboard was adding extra heat behind > the panel. That time we brought it back by directing cool air from a > fresh air vent forward toward the spot where the voltage regulator is > mounted inside the cabin on the back side of the firewall. > > So the problem seems to be heat-related. Does this make sense? The > Rotax alternator is supposed to be rated for 18 amps, and able to handle > a steady load of 14 amps easily. Does the Ducati regulator have a > thermal self-protect cutout? Do I perhaps have a regulator that is > ready to fail completely, or should I just put an avionics cooling fan > behind the panel to get the air moving?Any other ideas? > > Regards, > Paul Kuntz >


    Message 7


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 03:39:32 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out
    From: "pestar" <peter@reivernet.com>
    I own a French DynAero MCR-4S Rotax 914 which I part built in France prior to shipping back to New Zealand. During this time I learnt that the standard Ducatti regulator was unreliable and so I never fitted it. I replaced it with a GR6 Schicke electrical regulator which is an approved LAA mode in the UK for Rotax engines.. This regulator is a lot more robust and eliminates the flakey issues you may be experiencing. Mine is mounted under the co-pilots seat uncooled. See http://www.sarangan.org/mhonarc/mharc/html//europa-list/2012-07/msg00009.html for further info. Cheers Peter -------- Peter Armstrong Auckland, New Zealand DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ). Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406383#406383


    Message 8


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:09:39 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Ground block (faston vs. ring)
    At 01:11 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote: > >I need a firewall passthrough ground block. I was thinking of using >ring terminals because... it seemed like a good idea? :) > >But looking at B&C, Steinair, etc., it seems like everyone is >selling faston connectors. Just wondering if there is an inherent >reason for faston over ring. See http://tinyurl.com/mk5k6j >And if I decide to go with ring terminals anyway, I was going to get >a block of brass, drill and tap it so that I end up with the ring >version of the faston style. Don't tap holes for screws, use screws in clearance holes with nuts to craft captive studs over which you can run a locknut. >And what about dissimilar metal corrosion? Is it recommended to >place something between the ground block and the metal side of the firewall? This hasn't been done that I know off. B&C has been selling the ground blocks for 10+ years and I'm aware of no reported problems. Doesn't mean they don't exist but I think it's low risk. Bob . . .


    Message 9


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 04:12:46 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out
    At 11:46 PM 8/8/2013, you wrote: I have a homebuilt Pipistrel Sinus with a Rotax 912 UL that I flew to Oshkosh and back last week. The panel has a dual Dynon Skyview display with two-axis autopilot, plus radio and transponder. The total electrical load with everything running is 7 to 8 amps. Occasionally it can go to 9 or 10 amps if I'm charging cell phone and iPad en route. I'm pretty confident that I have the electrical system wired so that the ammeter is measuring the total electrical load. The alternator dropped out once on the outbound trip, but came back after removing the iPad charging load. The symptom was a voltage drop from 13.8 volts to 12.5 volts, which seemed strange. On preflight the voltage may read that high for a minute or so on a freshly-charged battery, but it quickly drops to 12.2 or 12.1 volts. In flight, the voltage would drop to 12.5 volts and stay there for several minutes. I would think that if the alternator had failed, I'd see the voltage drop to the same 12.1 volts that I see on preflight, and keep dropping slowly. I can't see why it would drop to 12.5 volts and stay there, unless the voltage regulator is failing in a way that I'm not familiar with. Batteries charge at 13.8 and above, they deliver energy at 12.5 and below. Regulators are set to charge batteries so a functioning alternator produces a bus voltage generally above 14.0 volts. The alternator dropped out (same symptoms) a few times on the trip back, but by reducing the load to 3 amps (one Skyview display, radio and transponder), it stayed on line except for awhile when it seemed that the mid-day sun shining on the dashboard was adding extra heat behind the panel. That time we brought it back by directing cool air from a fresh air vent forward toward the spot where the voltage regulator is mounted inside the cabin on the back side of the firewall. So the problem seems to be heat-related. Does this make sense? The Rotax alternator is supposed to be rated for 18 amps, and able to handle a steady load of 14 amps easily. Does the Ducati regulator have a thermal self-protect cutout? Do I perhaps have a regulator that is ready to fail completely, or should I just put an avionics cooling fan behind the panel to get the air moving?Any other ideas? How long has this regulator been in service? 10A is a pretty light load for a 912 regulator. I suspect something has become intermittent. Bob . . .


    Message 10


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:22:56 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Fwd: How to test a battery
    At 02:13 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote: >'Lectric-List folks, > >Your commentary on this test would be appreciated. > >Best regards, >Robert Borger, > >Sent from my iPad > >Begin forwarded message: > >>>Interesting. I have never heard of this. >>> >>>> >>>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_m6p99l6ME>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_m6p99l6ME >>>> > Youtube can be a fun place. I'll check this assertion out next time I've got some dead AA's in hand. A few years ago somebody did a youtube feature on the disassembly of a 6v spring-post lantern battery to show that it contained 32, AA cells. Since that time, dozens of folks have dug out their cameras to show that the 6v lantern battery does NOT contain a sack full of AA cells . . . here's what's REALLY inside. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TBQDGvhr3kE I've got a scale that measures to .1 gm and we can see if dead AAs loose any density and/or acquire and inner core that is cousin to a golf ball. Bob . . .


    Message 11


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:22:56 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Ground block (faston vs. ring)
    From: "donjohnston" <don@velocity-xl.com>
    [quote="nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect"]At 01:11 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote: > See http://tinyurl.com/mk5k6j I read that right after I made the post. Making my own ring block still looks a lot better than $50 for a 24x24 faston. > Don't tap holes for screws, use screws in clearance > holes with nuts to craft captive studs over which you > can run a locknut. Good point. Now I just have to find a big hunk of brass. :) Thanks! Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406386#406386


    Message 12


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:26:48 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out
    At 05:38 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote: > >I own a French DynAero MCR-4S Rotax 914 which I part built in France >prior to shipping back to New Zealand. During this time I learnt >that the standard Ducatti regulator was unreliable and so I never >fitted it. I replaced it with a GR6 Schicke electrical regulator >which is an approved LAA mode in the UK for Rotax engines.. > >This regulator is a lot more robust and eliminates the flakey >issues you may be experiencing. Mine is mounted under the co-pilots >seat uncooled. Thanks for the heads-up Peter. I've heard a lot of complaints about the Ducatti regulators. There are certainly many examples of the technology with opportunity to out-perform the Ducatti product, Schicke and John Deere being amongst those that should be considered. Bob . . .


    Message 13


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 05:29:02 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out
    At 12:55 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote: >Thanks for the tip. I'll check this cooling shroud idea. I'm also >wondering if my regulator has already been compromised. Any >opinions on what my repeated fail/recover situation indicates? I >would guess that it cycled between failed and recovered 8 or 10 >times before we established a state where it stayed on line, limited >to a total current draw of 3 amps. If your regulator can't carry 10A without cooling, it's probably broke. A functional part should be capable of rated output for the alternator which is on the order of 18A. I've not heard of any mass-movements to forced air cool these regulators. Bob . . .


    Message 14


  • INDEX
  • Back to Main INDEX
  • PREVIOUS
  • Skip to PREVIOUS Message
  • NEXT
  • Skip to NEXT Message
  • LIST
  • Reply to LIST Regarding this Message
  • SENDER
  • Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message
    Time: 08:58:16 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Operating, installation, service manuals
    From: Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com>
    Just sent you a Dropbox link... Sacha On Aug 8, 2013, at 7:04, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > While we're on that topic, if anyone has > a hard copy or .pdf of a manual for some > piece of avionics they'd like to share, > I'd be pleased to have access to the documents > for addition to the archives at AeroElectric.com > > > > Bob . . . > > > >




    Other Matronics Email List Services

  • Post A New Message
  •   aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
  • UN/SUBSCRIBE
  •   http://www.matronics.com/subscription
  • List FAQ
  •   http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm
  • Web Forum Interface To Lists
  •   http://forums.matronics.com
  • Matronics List Wiki
  •   http://wiki.matronics.com
  • 7-Day List Browse
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse AeroElectric-List Digests
  •   http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list
  • Browse Other Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/browse
  • Live Online Chat!
  •   http://www.matronics.com/chat
  • Archive Downloading
  •   http://www.matronics.com/archives
  • Photo Share
  •   http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
  • Other Email Lists
  •   http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
  • Contributions
  •   http://www.matronics.com/contribution

    These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.

    -- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --