Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:11 AM - Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (user9253)
2. 06:27 AM - WWII B17 Survival Story (Bill Bradburry)
3. 10:56 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Paul Kuntz)
4. 11:12 AM - Ground block (faston vs. ring) (donjohnston)
5. 12:14 PM - Fw: How to test a battery (Robert Borger)
6. 02:05 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Ken)
7. 03:39 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (pestar)
8. 04:09 PM - Re: Ground block (faston vs. ring) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 04:12 PM - Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 05:22 PM - Re: Fw: How to test a battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 05:22 PM - Re: Ground block (faston vs. ring) (donjohnston)
12. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 05:29 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 08:58 PM - Re: Operating, installation, service manuals (Sacha)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out |
I have a RV-12 with Rotax 912 engine. The voltage regulator can be damaged by
excessive heat. A fan that circulates warm air might not be enough.
Van's Aircraft sells an aluminum shroud that is pop riveted to the fins of the
voltage regulator.
Cooling Shroud part number F-00002 $10.
Blast Tube "DUCT CBT-5/8" connects to the Cooling Shroud. $3.95 per foot.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi
See page 40-14 of this document for installation instructions:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-12/Section_40.pdf
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406294#406294
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Subject: | WWII B17 Survival Story |
Incredible account of mid-air collision of our B-17 with a German fighter
aircraft and its miraculous completion of the bombing mission and return
flight back to England. The Entire crew not only survived but suffered no
injuries!
Description: Description:
http://touchofheavenyardart.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/in_god_we_tru
st.27144840_std.jpg
Interesting pictures at the end, unbelievable story!
This is an amazing story with photos that will have you muttering
"Impossible."
WWII B17 Survival Story
Description: Description: cid:1.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Description: Description: cid:2.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
B-17 in 1943
A mid-air collision on February 1, 1943, between a B-17 and a German fighter
over the Tunis dock area, became the subject of one of the most famous
photographs of World War II. An enemy fighter attacking a 97th Bomb Group
formation went out of control, probably with a wounded pilot then continued
its crashing descent into the rear of the fuselage of a Fortress named All
American, piloted by Lt. Kendrick R. Bragg, of the 414th Bomb Squadron.
When it struck, the fighter broke apart, but left some pieces in the B-17.
The left horizontal stabilizer of the Fortress and left elevator were
completely torn away.
The two right engines were out and one on the left had a serious oil pump
leak.
The vertical fin and the rudder had been damaged, the fuselage had been cut
almost completely through connected only at two small parts of the frame,
and the radios, electrical and oxygen systems were damaged.
There was also a hole in the top that was over 16 feet long and 4 feet wide
at its widest, and the split in the fuselage went all the way to the top
gunners turret.
Although the tail actually bounced and swayed in the wind and twisted when
the plane turned, and all the control cables were severed except one single
elevator cable still worked, and the aircraft still flew - miraculously!
The tail gunner was trapped because there was no floor connecting the tail
to the rest of the plane. The waist and tail gunners used parts of the
German fighter and their own parachute harnesses in an attempt to keep the
tail from ripping off and the two sides of the fuselage from splitting
apart.
While the crew was trying to keep the bomber from coming apart, the pilot
continued on his bomb run and released his bombs over the target.
When the bomb bay doors were opened, the wind turbulence was so great that
it blew one of the waist gunners into the broken tail section.
It took several minutes and four crew members to pass him ropes from
parachutes and haul him back into the forward part of the plane.
When they tried to do the same for the tail gunner, the tail began flapping
so hard that it began to break off.
The weight of the gunner was adding some stability to the tail section, so
he went back to his position.
The turn back toward England had to be very slow to keep the tail from
twisting off. They actually covered almost 70 miles to make the turn home.
The bomber was so badly damaged that it was losing altitude and speed and
was soon alone in the sky. For a brief time, two more Me-109 German fighters
attacked the All American.
Despite the extensive damage, all of the machine gunners were able to
respond to these attacks and soon drove off the fighters.
The two waist gunners stood up with their heads sticking out through the
hole in the top of the fuselage to aim and fire their machine guns.
The tail gunner had to shoot in short bursts because the recoil was actually
causing the plane to turn.
Allied P-51 fighters intercepted the All American as it crossed over the
Channel and took one of the pictures shown.
They also radioed to the base describing that the empennage was waving like
a fish tail, that the plane would not make it and to send out boats to
rescue the crew when they bailed out.
The fighters stayed with the Fortress taking hand signals from Lt. Bragg and
relaying them to the base. Lt. Bragg signaled that 5 parachutes and the
spare had been "used" so five of the crew could not bail out. He made the
decision that if they could not bail out safely, then he would stay with the
plane and land it.
Two and a half hours after being hit, the aircraft made its final turn to
line up with the runway while it was still over 40 miles away. It descended
into an emergency landing and a normal roll-out on its landing gear.
When the ambulance pulled alongside, it was waved off because not a single
member of the crew had been injured.
No one could believe that the aircraft could still fly in such a condition.
The Fortress sat placidly until the crew all exited through the door in the
fuselage and the tail gunner had climbed down a ladder, at which time the
entire rear section of the aircraft collapsed onto the ground. The rugged
old bird had done its job.
Description: Description: cid:3.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Description: Description: cid:4.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Description: Description: cid:5.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Description: Description:
cid:6.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.comDescription: Description:
cid:7.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Description: Description:
cid:8.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.comDescription: Description:
cid:9.4214455337@web141201.mail.bf1.yahoo.com
Pass this on to someone you know will appreciate this story.
God was definitely with these guys. Remember to pray for our troops
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out |
Thanks for the tip. I'll check this cooling shroud idea. I'm also
wondering if my regulator has already been compromised. Any opinions on
what my repeated fail/recover situation indicates? I would guess that it
cycled between failed and recovered 8 or 10 times before we established a
state where it stayed on line, limited to a total current draw of 3 amps.
Paul
On Friday, August 9, 2013, user9253 wrote:
> >
>
> I have a RV-12 with Rotax 912 engine. The voltage regulator can be
> damaged by excessive heat. A fan that circulates warm air might not be
> enough.
> Van's Aircraft sells an aluminum shroud that is pop riveted to the fins
> of the voltage regulator.
> Cooling Shroud part number F-00002 $10.
> Blast Tube "DUCT CBT-5/8" connects to the Cooling Shroud. $3.95 per foot.
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/store.cgi
> See page 40-14 of this document for installation instructions:
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-12/Section_40.pdf
> Joe
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406294#406294
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Ground block (faston vs. ring) |
I need a firewall passthrough ground block. I was thinking of using ring terminals
because... it seemed like a good idea? :)
But looking at B&C, Steinair, etc., it seems like everyone is selling faston connectors.
Just wondering if there is an inherent reason for faston over ring.
And if I decide to go with ring terminals anyway, I was going to get a block of
brass, drill and tap it so that I end up with the ring version of the faston
style.
And what about dissimilar metal corrosion? Is it recommended to place something
between the ground block and the metal side of the firewall?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406350#406350
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Subject: | Fwd: How to test a battery |
'Lectric-List folks,
Your commentary on this test would be appreciated.
Best regards,
Robert Borger,
Sent from my iPad
Begin forwarded message:
>> Interesting. I have never heard of this.
>>
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_m6p99l6ME
>>>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out |
Paul
I would consider 12.5 volts to be a no charging situation but like you
I'd also expect it to slowly drop further.
Your 13.8 volts is also pretty low to reasonably recharge a battery
unless perhaps you are frequently flying long trips in hot temperatures.
If you believe your voltmeter to be accurate, I'd indeed suggest a new
regulator however the intermittent nature of the fluctuations could also
indicate a poor connection.
The John Deere PM regulator is rated at 20 amps and has served me well
(with a 20 amp alternator) on the cabin side of the firewall although
mine is mounted on a bracket about a half inch from the firewall to let
air circulate under it. I am not familiar with the rotax regulator but I
would consider a unit that needs air blast on it in the cabin to be way
too marginal for reliable service.
Ken
On 09/08/2013 12:46 AM, Paul Kuntz wrote:
> I have a homebuilt Pipistrel Sinus with a Rotax 912 UL that I flew to
> Oshkosh and back last week. The panel has a dual Dynon Skyview
> display with two-axis autopilot, plus radio and transponder. The total
> electrical load with everything running is 7 to 8 amps. Occasionally it
> can go to 9 or 10 amps if I'm charging cell phone and iPad en route.
> I'm pretty confident that I have the electrical system wired so that
> the ammeter is measuring the total electrical load.
>
> The alternator dropped out once on the outbound trip, but came back
> after removing the iPad charging load. The symptom was a voltage drop
> from 13.8 volts to 12.5 volts, which seemed strange. On preflight the
> voltage may read that high for a minute or so on a freshly-charged
> battery, but it quickly drops to 12.2 or 12.1 volts. In flight, the
> voltage would drop to 12.5 volts and stay there for several minutes. I
> would think that if the alternator had failed, I'd see the voltage drop
> to the same 12.1 volts that I see on preflight, and keep dropping
> slowly. I can't see why it would drop to 12.5 volts and stay there,
> unless the voltage regulator is failing in a way that I'm not familiar with.
>
> The alternator dropped out (same symptoms) a few times on the trip back,
> but by reducing the load to 3 amps (one Skyview display, radio and
> transponder), it stayed on line except for awhile when it seemed that
> the mid-day sun shining on the dashboard was adding extra heat behind
> the panel. That time we brought it back by directing cool air from a
> fresh air vent forward toward the spot where the voltage regulator is
> mounted inside the cabin on the back side of the firewall.
>
> So the problem seems to be heat-related. Does this make sense? The
> Rotax alternator is supposed to be rated for 18 amps, and able to handle
> a steady load of 14 amps easily. Does the Ducati regulator have a
> thermal self-protect cutout? Do I perhaps have a regulator that is
> ready to fail completely, or should I just put an avionics cooling fan
> behind the panel to get the air moving?Any other ideas?
>
> Regards,
> Paul Kuntz
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out |
I own a French DynAero MCR-4S Rotax 914 which I part built in France prior to shipping
back to New Zealand. During this time I learnt that the standard Ducatti
regulator was unreliable and so I never fitted it. I replaced it with a GR6
Schicke electrical regulator which is an approved LAA mode in the UK for Rotax
engines..
This regulator is a lot more robust and eliminates the flakey issues you may be
experiencing. Mine is mounted under the co-pilots seat uncooled.
See http://www.sarangan.org/mhonarc/mharc/html//europa-list/2012-07/msg00009.html for further info.
Cheers Peter
--------
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New Zealand
DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me :) ).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406383#406383
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Ground block (faston vs. ring) |
At 01:11 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote:
>
>I need a firewall passthrough ground block. I was thinking of using
>ring terminals because... it seemed like a good idea? :)
>
>But looking at B&C, Steinair, etc., it seems like everyone is
>selling faston connectors. Just wondering if there is an inherent
>reason for faston over ring.
See http://tinyurl.com/mk5k6j
>And if I decide to go with ring terminals anyway, I was going to get
>a block of brass, drill and tap it so that I end up with the ring
>version of the faston style.
Don't tap holes for screws, use screws in clearance
holes with nuts to craft captive studs over which you
can run a locknut.
>And what about dissimilar metal corrosion? Is it recommended to
>place something between the ground block and the metal side of the firewall?
This hasn't been done that I know off. B&C has been
selling the ground blocks for 10+ years and I'm aware
of no reported problems. Doesn't mean they don't
exist but I think it's low risk.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out |
At 11:46 PM 8/8/2013, you wrote:
I have a homebuilt Pipistrel Sinus with a Rotax 912 UL that I flew to
Oshkosh and back last week. The panel has a dual Dynon Skyview
display with two-axis autopilot, plus radio and transponder. The
total electrical load with everything running is 7 to 8
amps. Occasionally it can go to 9 or 10 amps if I'm charging cell
phone and iPad en route. I'm pretty confident that I have the
electrical system wired so that the ammeter is measuring the total
electrical load.
The alternator dropped out once on the outbound trip, but came back
after removing the iPad charging load. The symptom was a voltage
drop from 13.8 volts to 12.5 volts, which seemed strange. On
preflight the voltage may read that high for a minute or so on a
freshly-charged battery, but it quickly drops to 12.2 or 12.1
volts. In flight, the voltage would drop to 12.5 volts and stay
there for several minutes. I would think that if the alternator had
failed, I'd see the voltage drop to the same 12.1 volts that I see on
preflight, and keep dropping slowly. I can't see why it would drop
to 12.5 volts and stay there, unless the voltage regulator is failing
in a way that I'm not familiar with.
Batteries charge at 13.8 and above, they deliver energy
at 12.5 and below. Regulators are set to charge batteries
so a functioning alternator produces a bus voltage generally
above 14.0 volts.
The alternator dropped out (same symptoms) a few times on the trip
back, but by reducing the load to 3 amps (one Skyview display, radio
and transponder), it stayed on line except for awhile when it seemed
that the mid-day sun shining on the dashboard was adding extra heat
behind the panel. That time we brought it back by directing cool air
from a fresh air vent forward toward the spot where the voltage
regulator is mounted inside the cabin on the back side of the firewall.
So the problem seems to be heat-related. Does this make sense? The
Rotax alternator is supposed to be rated for 18 amps, and able to
handle a steady load of 14 amps easily. Does the Ducati regulator
have a thermal self-protect cutout? Do I perhaps have a regulator
that is ready to fail completely, or should I just put an avionics
cooling fan behind the panel to get the air moving?Any other ideas?
How long has this regulator been in service? 10A is
a pretty light load for a 912 regulator. I suspect
something has become intermittent.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Fwd: How to test a battery |
At 02:13 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote:
>'Lectric-List folks,
>
>Your commentary on this test would be appreciated.
>
>Best regards,
>Robert Borger,
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>Begin forwarded message:
>
>>>Interesting. I have never heard of this.
>>>
>>>>
>>>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_m6p99l6ME>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_m6p99l6ME
>>>>
>
Youtube can be a fun place. I'll check this assertion
out next time I've got some dead AA's in hand.
A few years ago somebody did a youtube feature on the disassembly
of a 6v spring-post lantern battery to show that it contained
32, AA cells. Since that time, dozens of folks have dug
out their cameras to show that the 6v lantern battery
does NOT contain a sack full of AA cells . . . here's
what's REALLY inside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TBQDGvhr3kE
I've got a scale that measures to .1 gm and we can
see if dead AAs loose any density and/or acquire
and inner core that is cousin to a golf ball.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Ground block (faston vs. ring) |
[quote="nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect"]At 01:11 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote:
> See http://tinyurl.com/mk5k6j
I read that right after I made the post. Making my own ring block still looks a
lot better than $50 for a 24x24 faston.
> Don't tap holes for screws, use screws in clearance
> holes with nuts to craft captive studs over which you
> can run a locknut.
Good point. Now I just have to find a big hunk of brass. :)
Thanks!
Don
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406386#406386
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out |
At 05:38 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote:
>
>I own a French DynAero MCR-4S Rotax 914 which I part built in France
>prior to shipping back to New Zealand. During this time I learnt
>that the standard Ducatti regulator was unreliable and so I never
>fitted it. I replaced it with a GR6 Schicke electrical regulator
>which is an approved LAA mode in the UK for Rotax engines..
>
>This regulator is a lot more robust and eliminates the flakey
>issues you may be experiencing. Mine is mounted under the co-pilots
>seat uncooled.
Thanks for the heads-up Peter. I've heard a lot
of complaints about the Ducatti regulators.
There are certainly many examples of the technology
with opportunity to out-perform the Ducatti product,
Schicke and John Deere being amongst those that
should be considered.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out |
At 12:55 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote:
>Thanks for the tip. I'll check this cooling shroud idea. I'm also
>wondering if my regulator has already been compromised. Any
>opinions on what my repeated fail/recover situation indicates? I
>would guess that it cycled between failed and recovered 8 or 10
>times before we established a state where it stayed on line, limited
>to a total current draw of 3 amps.
If your regulator can't carry 10A without cooling, it's
probably broke. A functional part should be capable of
rated output for the alternator which is on the order
of 18A. I've not heard of any mass-movements to forced
air cool these regulators.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Operating, installation, service manuals |
Just sent you a Dropbox link...
Sacha
On Aug 8, 2013, at 7:04, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
wrote:
>
> While we're on that topic, if anyone has
> a hard copy or .pdf of a manual for some
> piece of avionics they'd like to share,
> I'd be pleased to have access to the documents
> for addition to the archives at AeroElectric.com
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
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