AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Sun 08/18/13


Total Messages Posted: 11



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:31 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/17/13 (Franz Fux)
     2. 12:35 AM - Re: Re: Failed brownout battery experiment (Peter Pengilly)
     3. 12:54 AM - Re: Re: Failed brownout battery experiment (Sacha)
     4. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Paul Kuntz)
     5. 09:38 AM - Broadcast Radio Bleedover on Transceiver (mike>bentley)
     6. 09:58 AM - Re: Broadcast Radio Bleedover on Transceiver (Daniel Hooper)
     7. 10:08 AM - Re: Broadcast Radio Bleedover on Transceiver (mike>bentley)
     8. 10:29 AM - Re: Re: Broadcast Radio Bleedover on Transceiver (Daniel Hooper)
     9. 11:05 AM - Re: Broadcast Radio Bleedover on Transceiver (mike>bentley)
    10. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Richard Girard)
    11. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out (Paul Kuntz)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:31:11 AM PST US
    From: "Franz Fux" <franz@lastfrontierheli.com>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 08/17/13
    unable to respond to any mail until the 20th of August,


    Message 2


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    Time: 12:35:00 AM PST US
    From: Peter Pengilly <peter@sportingaero.com>
    Subject: Re: Failed brownout battery experiment
    Talking of dc-dc converters, this is probably more than many might want to spend, but TCW produces some well thought out components. http://www.tcwtech.com/IPS-12v.htm Peter On 17/08/2013 18:21, nuckollsr wrote: > > >> Actually my successful experiment used 4 AA batteries. Two D batteries did not keep the D-180 from rebooting, nor did 3 AA. I did not try 3 or 4 D batteries, mainly because I did not have battery holder. >> A capacitor or DC-DC booster will offer a more elegant solution. Or perhaps a combination of DC booster supplying a higher voltage to a capacitor. Mouser sells a 25volts 150000uF part number 647-LNR1E154MSE at a reasonable cost. Joe > > Yeah, a smaller capacitor charged to a higher voltage would probably do it too. The AA experiment obviously worked but even though their 'sag' under load did not torpedo the experiment, it's going to affect service life. Consider a 4xD as a soldered up pak with flying leads. I'm pretty sure this would give you a good service life . . . probably a couple of years as long as your airplane is not stored in a closed hangar under an Arizona sun. > > The dc to dc converter we looked at first set for a 12v output and driven from the downstream side of your starter button seems pretty elegant. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406922#406922 > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 12:54:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Failed brownout battery experiment
    From: Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com>
    On Aug 17, 2013, at 5:30, "nuckollsr" <bob.nuckolls@aeroelectric.com> wrote: > > [/quote] Did you mean 14 *volts*? How can you tell that it would support that for a half a second brownout?[/quote] > > [...] > > Our 'target low input' is on the order of 7 v so we're asking the little feller to put out 14 watts max with 7v in and some output with headroom above 15volts . . . 19 seemed like a handy number. > > [...] > Thanks for the explanation Bob! Do not archive


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:58:58 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out
    From: Paul Kuntz <paul.r.kuntz@gmail.com>
    Several inputs suggested checking the connections on the leads coming from the alternator, and checking the system ground connections. I checked the faston-type alternator lead connections, which were clean and tight. I checked all of the ground connections, which were also tight. Yesterday I went up for a test flight and confirmed the symptoms under varying system loads. The normal system voltage with alternator on line is 13.8 volts, which is consistent with what others are reporting for the Rotax Ducati regulator. I see a max load of 10 amps with everything running, so I am satisfied that the total load is well within the standard Rotax system capacity. I also observed that the system voltage drops to 13.5 volts at the 10 amp max load, which seems abnormal. Under this max load, the alternator dropped out after a few minutes, indicated by system voltage dropping to around 12.5 volts -- consistent with fully charged lead-acid battery. When I reduced the load to 3 amps, which is my practical minimum (one Dynon display, radio and transponder), the alternator came back and stayed there, with system voltage at the normal regulator set point of 13.8 volts. I repeated this experiment a few times for various loads, finding that a total load above 5 or 6 amps will cause the alternator to drop out after a few minutes, and that it will come back when the load is reduced to 3 amps. I am pretty well convinced that my voltage regulator is bad. I did learn from comments on this issue that Van's includes a voltage regulator cooling kit with its lighting kit for the RV-12, consisting of a length of plastic tubing that connects from the air intake duct to a shroud over the regulator, providing a direct blast of cooling air to counteract the increased electrical load of the lighting. So there is certainly indication that the Ducati regulator is susceptible to overheating under load. The RV-12 regulator is on the engine side of the firewall, however, and mine is on the cabin side. At 10 amps with the regulator mounted in the cockpit environment, I'm thinking the regulator should be able to handle the load without supplemental cooling. Others have noted the not-so-good reputation of the Ducati regulator, but there are thousands of them in service on Rotax engines worldwide, so rather than tackle a reconfiguration of my regulator and wiring installation at this point , I ordered a replacement Ducati from Lockwood Aviation and will see how it goes. I also ordered a overvoltage protection module from B&C, since the Pipistrel electrical system does not include one. I'll install it with the new voltage regulator. I'll report my findings after installing the new regulator. Paul Kuntz On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Paul Kuntz <paul.r.kuntz@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for the tips, everyone. I concur with Bob that my Ducati regulator > is done for and should be replaced. I will take a look at the > Schicke unit that Peter mentioned. > > Cheers, > Paul Kuntz > > > On Friday, August 9, 2013, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >> >> At 12:55 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the tip. I'll check this cooling shroud idea. I'm also >>> wondering if my regulator has already been compromised. Any opinions on >>> what my repeated fail/recover situation indicates? I would guess that it >>> cycled between failed and recovered 8 or 10 times before we established a >>> state where it stayed on line, limited to a total current draw of 3 amps. >>> >> >> If your regulator can't carry 10A without cooling, it's >> probably broke. A functional part should be capable of >> rated output for the alternator which is on the order >> of 18A. I've not heard of any mass-movements to forced >> air cool these regulators. >> >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> >>


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:38:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Broadcast Radio Bleedover on Transceiver
    From: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb@gmail.com>
    Looking for some advice. I have a Kitfox IV using an Icom A5 transceiver mounted on the panel. It has the ni-cad batter installed as well as connected to the ships power. It is connected to a Comant CI-122 antenna via RG400 cable. When I am in the vicinity of broadcast radio antennas or at a lower altitude over a city with broadcast antennas, I get a constant, fairly loud garbeled bleedover from their broadcast. Adjusting squelch doesn't help much. I can still transmit and receive ATC ok as it blanks out the bleedover. Any suggestions or topics that have already discussed this? Thanks Mike -------- Mike Bentley Joplin, MO N5498B Model 4-1200 (Flying) Jabiru 2200 Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads GT Prop Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406965#406965


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:58:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Broadcast Radio Bleedover on Transceiver
    From: Daniel Hooper <enginerdy@gmail.com>
    Do you have an intercom too, or just the radio? --Daniel On Aug 18, 2013, at 11:38 AM, "mike>bentley" <mikeeeb@gmail.com> wrote: > > Looking for some advice. I have a Kitfox IV using an Icom A5 transceiver mounted on the panel. It has the ni-cad batter installed as well as connected to the ships power. It is connected to a Comant CI-122 antenna via RG400 cable. When I am in the vicinity of broadcast radio antennas or at a lower altitude over a city with broadcast antennas, I get a constant, fairly loud garbeled bleedover from their broadcast. Adjusting squelch doesn't help much. I can still transmit and receive ATC ok as it blanks out the bleedover. > > Any suggestions or topics that have already discussed this? > > Thanks > Mike > > -------- > Mike Bentley > Joplin, MO > N5498B > Model 4-1200 (Flying) > Jabiru 2200 > Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads > GT Prop > Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406965#406965 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:08:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Broadcast Radio Bleedover on Transceiver
    From: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb@gmail.com>
    Yes. It runs through a Sigtronics SPO-22N intercom. -------- Mike Bentley Joplin, MO N5498B Model 4-1200 (Flying) Jabiru 2200 Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads GT Prop Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406970#406970


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:29:11 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Broadcast Radio Bleedover on Transceiver
    From: Daniel Hooper <enginerdy@gmail.com>
    Have you experimented with that setup to see if the noise is possibly coming in through the intercom? Daniel On Aug 18, 2013, at 12:07 PM, "mike>bentley" <mikeeeb@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes. It runs through a Sigtronics SPO-22N intercom. > > -------- > Mike Bentley > Joplin, MO > N5498B > Model 4-1200 (Flying) > Jabiru 2200 > Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads > GT Prop > Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406970#406970 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:05:01 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Broadcast Radio Bleedover on Transceiver
    From: "mike&gt;bentley" <mikeeeb@gmail.com>
    I have not. I'll try it. I'll disconnect the intercom and hook up the headset straight out of the radio. -------- Mike Bentley Joplin, MO N5498B Model 4-1200 (Flying) Jabiru 2200 Rotec Aerosport LCH Heads GT Prop Ellison EFS-2 Throttle Body Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=406978#406978


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:56:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    Paul, As an aside, if your Pipistrel is certificated as an SLSA you must get a Letter of Authorization from the factory to make any changes to the aircraft. If you don't, your airplane airplane's certificate of compliance becomes void. If the factory won't give you a letter, your only option is to remove the change or take the aircraft ELSA. Rick Girard On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Paul Kuntz <paul.r.kuntz@gmail.com> wrote: > Several inputs suggested checking the connections on the leads coming from > the alternator, and checking the system ground connections. I checked the > faston-type alternator lead connections, which were clean and tight. I > checked all of the ground connections, which were also tight. Yesterday I > went up for a test flight and confirmed the symptoms under varying system > loads. The normal system voltage with alternator on line is 13.8 volts, > which is consistent with what others are reporting for the Rotax Ducati > regulator. I see a max load of 10 amps with everything running, so I am > satisfied that the total load is well within the standard Rotax system > capacity. I also observed that the system voltage drops to 13.5 volts at > the 10 amp max load, which seems abnormal. Under this max load, the > alternator dropped out after a few minutes, indicated by system voltage > dropping to around 12.5 volts -- consistent with fully charged lead-acid > battery. > > When I reduced the load to 3 amps, which is my practical minimum (one > Dynon display, radio and transponder), the alternator came back and stayed > there, with system voltage at the normal regulator set point of 13.8 > volts. > > I repeated this experiment a few times for various loads, finding that a > total load above 5 or 6 amps will cause the alternator to drop out after a > few minutes, and that it will come back when the load is reduced to 3 > amps. > > I am pretty well convinced that my voltage regulator is bad. I did learn > from comments on this issue that Van's includes a voltage regulator cooling > kit with its lighting kit for the RV-12, consisting of a length of plastic > tubing that connects from the air intake duct to a shroud over the > regulator, providing a direct blast of cooling air to counteract the > increased electrical load of the lighting. So there is certainly > indication that the Ducati regulator is susceptible to overheating under > load. The RV-12 regulator is on the engine side of the firewall, however, > and mine is on the cabin side. At 10 amps with the regulator mounted in > the cockpit environment, I'm thinking the regulator should be able to > handle the load without supplemental cooling. Others have noted the > not-so-good reputation of the Ducati regulator, but there are thousands of > them in service on Rotax engines worldwide, so rather than tackle a > reconfiguration of my regulator and wiring installation at this point , I > ordered a replacement Ducati from Lockwood Aviation and will see how it > goes. I also ordered a overvoltage protection module from B&C, since the > Pipistrel electrical system does not include one. I'll install it with the > new voltage regulator. > > I'll report my findings after installing the new regulator. > > Paul Kuntz > > > On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Paul Kuntz <paul.r.kuntz@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Thanks for the tips, everyone. I concur with Bob that my Ducati >> regulator is done for and should be replaced. I will take a look at the >> Schicke unit that Peter mentioned. >> >> Cheers, >> Paul Kuntz >> >> >> On Friday, August 9, 2013, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >> >>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >>> >>> At 12:55 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the tip. I'll check this cooling shroud idea. I'm also >>>> wondering if my regulator has already been compromised. Any opinions on >>>> what my repeated fail/recover situation indicates? I would guess that it >>>> cycled between failed and recovered 8 or 10 times before we established a >>>> state where it stayed on line, limited to a total current draw of 3 amps. >>>> >>> >>> If your regulator can't carry 10A without cooling, it's >>> probably broke. A functional part should be capable of >>> rated output for the alternator which is on the order >>> of 18A. I've not heard of any mass-movements to forced >>> air cool these regulators. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >>> ====**==============================**= >>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/** >>> Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>> ====**==============================**= >>> http://forums.matronics.com >>> ====**==============================**= >>> le, List Admin. >>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution >>> ====**==============================**= >>> >>> >>> >>> > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:03:41 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912 UL alternator drop-out
    From: Paul Kuntz <paul.r.kuntz@gmail.com>
    Correct, Rick, but mine is built from a kit and licensed as Experimental Amateur-Built, so I am not bound by the SLSA restrictions. That's one of the main reasons I wanted to go the EAB route. Regards, Paul On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 6:54 PM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote: > Paul, As an aside, if your Pipistrel is certificated as an SLSA you must > get a Letter of Authorization from the factory to make any changes to the > aircraft. If you don't, your airplane airplane's certificate of compliance > becomes void. If the factory won't give you a letter, your only option is > to remove the change or take the aircraft ELSA. > > Rick Girard > > > On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Paul Kuntz <paul.r.kuntz@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Several inputs suggested checking the connections on the leads coming >> from the alternator, and checking the system ground connections. I checked >> the faston-type alternator lead connections, which were clean and tight. I >> checked all of the ground connections, which were also tight. Yesterday I >> went up for a test flight and confirmed the symptoms under varying system >> loads. The normal system voltage with alternator on line is 13.8 volts, >> which is consistent with what others are reporting for the Rotax Ducati >> regulator. I see a max load of 10 amps with everything running, so I am >> satisfied that the total load is well within the standard Rotax system >> capacity. I also observed that the system voltage drops to 13.5 volts at >> the 10 amp max load, which seems abnormal. Under this max load, the >> alternator dropped out after a few minutes, indicated by system voltage >> dropping to around 12.5 volts -- consistent with fully charged lead-acid >> battery. >> >> When I reduced the load to 3 amps, which is my practical minimum (one >> Dynon display, radio and transponder), the alternator came back and stayed >> there, with system voltage at the normal regulator set point of 13.8 >> volts. >> >> I repeated this experiment a few times for various loads, finding that a >> total load above 5 or 6 amps will cause the alternator to drop out after a >> few minutes, and that it will come back when the load is reduced to 3 >> amps. >> >> I am pretty well convinced that my voltage regulator is bad. I did learn >> from comments on this issue that Van's includes a voltage regulator cooling >> kit with its lighting kit for the RV-12, consisting of a length of plastic >> tubing that connects from the air intake duct to a shroud over the >> regulator, providing a direct blast of cooling air to counteract the >> increased electrical load of the lighting. So there is certainly >> indication that the Ducati regulator is susceptible to overheating under >> load. The RV-12 regulator is on the engine side of the firewall, however, >> and mine is on the cabin side. At 10 amps with the regulator mounted in >> the cockpit environment, I'm thinking the regulator should be able to >> handle the load without supplemental cooling. Others have noted the >> not-so-good reputation of the Ducati regulator, but there are thousands of >> them in service on Rotax engines worldwide, so rather than tackle a >> reconfiguration of my regulator and wiring installation at this point , I >> ordered a replacement Ducati from Lockwood Aviation and will see how it >> goes. I also ordered a overvoltage protection module from B&C, since the >> Pipistrel electrical system does not include one. I'll install it with the >> new voltage regulator. >> >> I'll report my findings after installing the new regulator. >> >> Paul Kuntz >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Paul Kuntz <paul.r.kuntz@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the tips, everyone. I concur with Bob that my Ducati >>> regulator is done for and should be replaced. I will take a look at the >>> Schicke unit that Peter mentioned. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Paul Kuntz >>> >>> >>> On Friday, August 9, 2013, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: >>> >>>> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> >>>> >>>> At 12:55 PM 8/9/2013, you wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the tip. I'll check this cooling shroud idea. I'm also >>>>> wondering if my regulator has already been compromised. Any opinions on >>>>> what my repeated fail/recover situation indicates? I would guess that it >>>>> cycled between failed and recovered 8 or 10 times before we established a >>>>> state where it stayed on line, limited to a total current draw of 3 amps. >>>>> >>>> >>>> If your regulator can't carry 10A without cooling, it's >>>> probably broke. A functional part should be capable of >>>> rated output for the alternator which is on the order >>>> of 18A. I've not heard of any mass-movements to forced >>>> air cool these regulators. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bob . . . >>>> >>>> ====**==============================**= >>>> -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/** >>>> Navigator?AeroElectric-List >>>> ====**==============================**= >>>> http://forums.matronics.com >>>> ====**==============================**= >>>> le, List Admin. >>>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/**contribution >>>> ====**==============================**= >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> * >> >> ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > * > > * > >




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