---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/16/13: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:42 AM - Electrical System Review (jonlaury) 2. 03:20 PM - Re: Circuit Diagram Z-19 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 04:06 PM - Location of Batteries and Master Relays (Robert Reed) 4. 04:49 PM - Re: Location of Batteries and Master Relays (Ron Burnett) 5. 05:37 PM - Re: Electrical System Review (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:28 PM - Re: Electrical System Review (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 06:46 PM - Re: Electrical System Review (jonlaury) 8. 06:56 PM - Re: Location of Batteries and Master Relays (Robert Reed) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:29 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electrical System Review From: "jonlaury" The thread about "Why does a master switch..." prompted me to take a look at my own electrical system. I haven't been to the hangar to look at how my system is actually wired, but in review of my schematic, (particularly, everything left of the Main Bus)there were some glaring deficiencies re-wiring of OVM's , and the Ground Power circuit, and perhaps the Battery Bus, given the total load and the need for a switch/relay. And I was surprised to see that, with engine running, the Main bus is always hot. I would appreciate any comments to make this better. Thanks, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408673#408673 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/z8_20td_final_187.pdf ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:35 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Circuit Diagram Z-19 At 01:34 PM 9/16/2013, you wrote: >Bob... > >With a MPEFIed RAM Subaru EA 81 in a Europa XS, I'm using your Z-19 >circuit as a general guide...a pal who is a marine electronics >engineer/contractor had questions: > >1. Why is there a starter contactor in series w/ the starter >solenoid? Could we not run from the starter 7 amp fuse to the >push to start button direct to the sole coil? Maybe not. What kind of pinion engagement system is employed? A TWO stage, direct engagement or perhaps an inertia-driven, Bendix style? If the former, suggest you retain the exteral starter contactor. See: http://tinyurl.com/op5cs2g >2. For weight & balance issues, my batteries will be aft in the >tail cone; regarding location of main battery and engine battery >contactors, if they were mounted on the firewall, could we not get >by with only 3 AWG4 wires running back to the batteries by using a >single wire as a common ground? By legacy convention, battery contactors are mounted as close as practical to their respective batteries. >My apologies for the personal email rather than a post on >AeroElectric list-serve...for reasons unknown, I'm unable to post >and have yet to sort out the problem...I am able to read the daily >AeroElectric list-serve digest. I see that you're currently subscribed to both the digest and real-time dumps from the AeroElectric-List. You can post a new message by sending to: AeroElectric-List@matronics.com Or simply reply to a message that was posted to the list . . . even if you change the subject to start a new thread. Are you able to post to the other Matronics lists to which you subscribe? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:02 PM PST US From: Robert Reed Subject: AeroElectric-List: Location of Batteries and Master Relays Bob,=0A-=0AI am planning on using the Z14 wiring for the FADEC electronic ignition.- I am going to use two Odyssey PC680 batteries to be located u nder the pilot/co-pilot seats.- There is plenty of room for upright insta llation with ample room to also install the master relays, crossover relay, and starter contactor and voltage regulators-as well.- I will also hav e the wing leveler autopilot servo in the same area.- This is essentially dead space that is not usable for storage.=0A-=0AThe question is do you see any issues with having all the relays, contactors, and voltage regulato rs located under the seats in the same area?- Past experience with batter ies have proven keeping them inside greatly extends their life but not sure if there are other issues I am not considering.- There is plenty of room , lots more than behind the firewall and more accessible too.-=0A-=0A -=0AThanks,=0A-=0ABob Reed ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:52 PM PST US From: Ron Burnett Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Location of Batteries and Master Relays What type of aircraft? Sent from my iPad May you have the blessings of the Lord today. On Sep 16, 2013, at 6:04 PM, Robert Reed wrote: > Bob, > > I am planning on using the Z14 wiring for the FADEC electronic ignition. I am going to use two Odyssey PC680 batteries to be located under the pilot/c o-pilot seats. There is plenty of room for upright installation with ample r oom to also install the master relays, crossover relay, and starter contacto r and voltage regulators as well. I will also have the wing leveler autopil ot servo in the same area. This is essentially dead space that is not usabl e for storage. > > The question is do you see any issues with having all the relays, contacto rs, and voltage regulators located under the seats in the same area? Past e xperience with batteries have proven keeping them inside greatly extends the ir life but not sure if there are other issues I am not considering. There i s plenty of room, lots more than behind the firewall and more accessible too . > > > Thanks, > > Bob Reed > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:47 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electrical System Review The thread about "Why does a master switch..." prompted me to take a look at my own electrical system. I haven't been to the hangar to look at how my system is actually wired, but in review of my schematic, (particularly, everything left of the Main Bus)there were some glaring deficiencies re-wiring of OVM's , and the Ground Power circuit, and perhaps the Battery Bus, given the total load and the need for a switch/relay. And I was surprised to see that, with engine running, the Main bus is always hot. I would appreciate any comments to make this better. Thanks, John I don't see any big gottchas except for current limiter in hte starter/alternator feed line. We don't normally put circuit protection there. The FARS don't require it and no certified single engine airplane would have it. Further, starter current through this device would blow it. Does anyone else see a problem with John's proposed installation? Oh, yeah . . . I presume that you included a contactor in the aux alternator b-lead to make this feed line max-dark when the switch is off . . . this suggests that tne contactor be mounted adjacent to the battery contactor. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:10 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electrical System Review Oops . . . didn't finish the job. The ANL60 needs to move as shown in attached. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:14 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Electrical System Review From: "jonlaury" nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: > The thread about "Why does a master switch..." prompted me to take a > look at my own electrical system. > ...snip > Thanks, > John > > > > > I don't see any big gottchas except for current limiter in hte > starter/alternator feed line. > ... snip > > Oh, yeah . . . I presume that you included a contactor in the > aux alternator b-lead to make this feed line max-dark when > the switch is off . . . this suggests that tne contactor > be mounted adjacent to the battery contactor. > > > Bob . . . The current limiter is inaccurately drawn. It's actually in the B lead from the main alternator just upstream from where the B lead connects to the Starter Contactor. And there is a contactor for the Aux Alternator B lead just left of the Aux Alt in the schematic. In reality, the contactor is about 4" from the Batt Cont. Of concern is that I don't see any reverse polarity protection from the Ground Power Jack. How would I achieve it with what I've got? Also, from your quote Bob, "battery bus feeders greater than 5A might best be fitted with a disconnect relay at the bus . . . not unlike Figure Z-32". Is this just for shutting down in the event of a forced landing? I wired the batt bus direct because I didn't want the always-on relay point of failure for my #2 fuel pump and aux EFI power. The # 8 wire is about 7.5". Per the LSE manual, both ignition leads sit on the Batt + terminal. Thanks, John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=408707#408707 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Location of Batteries and Master Relays From: Robert Reed KIS Super Cruiser low wing fiberglass four place. Bob Reed Sent from my iPhone On Sep 16, 2013, at 6:48 PM, Ron Burnett wrote: > What type of aircraft? > > > Sent from my iPad > May you have the blessings of the Lord today. > > On Sep 16, 2013, at 6:04 PM, Robert Reed wrote: > >> Bob, >> >> I am planning on using the Z14 wiring for the FADEC electronic ignition. I am going to use two Odyssey PC680 batteries to be located under the pilot /co-pilot seats. There is plenty of room for upright installation with ampl e room to also install the master relays, crossover relay, and starter conta ctor and voltage regulators as well. I will also have the wing leveler auto pilot servo in the same area. This is essentially dead space that is not us able for storage. >> >> The question is do you see any issues with having all the relays, contact ors, and voltage regulators located under the seats in the same area? Past e xperience with batteries have proven keeping them inside greatly extends the ir life but not sure if there are other issues I am not considering. There is plenty of room, lots more than behind the firewall and more accessible t oo. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Bob Reed >> >> >> ========================= ========= >> st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> ========================= ========= >> cs.com >> ========================= ========= >> matronics.com/contribution >> ========================= ========= >> > > ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= ========================== ========= > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.