AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Thu 10/03/13


Total Messages Posted: 6



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 11:58 AM - Re: Electric System architecture (was Charging the Aux Battery) (Carlos Trigo)
     2. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Electric System architecture (was Charging the Aux Battery) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 01:26 PM - Dual voltage output from fuel quantity senders (Peter Pengilly)
     4. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: Electric System architecture (was Charging the Aux Battery) (Michael Orth)
     5. 07:07 PM - ROTAX 912ULS ALT flicker..... Help?! (SIDESLIP)
     6. 07:33 PM - Re: ROTAX 912ULS ALT flicker..... Help?! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 11:58:29 AM PST US
    From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail.telepac.pt>
    Subject: RE: Electric System architecture (was Charging the
    Aux Battery) Please see answers below -----Mensagem original----- De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Em nome de Robert L. Nuckolls, III Enviada: 1 de outubro de 2013 22:18 Para: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Assunto: RE: AeroElectric-List: Charging the Aux Battery --> < <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 11:41 AM 10/1/2013, you wrote: >< <mailto:trigo@mail.telepac.pt> trigo@mail.telepac.pt> > >Bob > >Thank you for the dissertation about the theme I had proposed. >I confess that I still didn't read it thoroughly, so I will have to >digest it conveniently. > >Meanwhile, I can confirm that my question was not academic, I am >building an >RV-10 and did consider the Dual battery, One main Alternator - one Aux >alternator system. > >So far, I am considering a variation of the Z-14 architecture, but >still didn't reach the "end of the line" in what regards the final >schematic, so would appreciate all suggestions. > >Regards >Carlos Understand. I presume your airplane will be Lycoming powered and has a accessory pad that will NOT be occupied with a vacuum pump. Correct Do you plan to fly a significant portion of your use under instrument flight rules, over mountainous terrain or at night? Not a significant portion. But it would be nice to be able to fly IFR and at night. Do you plan to have a gps aided wing-leveler or better? Better, planning an auto-pilot. Engine electrically dependent in any way? It is a IO-540 You need to compile a list of every currently anticipated electro-whizzy. If you have actual running current for each device, record that value along. Peak currents too even if intermittent. Already done an excel table with A consumptions Do any of these accessories feature built in back up batteries and/or connections brought out for dual power sourcing? Yes, the EFIS will be dual power sourcing. I am using a VP-X Pro box. How do you rate yourself for competence/confidence that under total loss of panel instrumentation, you could get to where you originally intended to go with flight bag back-ups? Well, not so sure, but I do like to fly with the old paper map over my knee. And I suppose an iPad with electronic charts will also travel in the glove box Since this is a 4-seated airplane, your approach toward risk mitigation is understandably more conservative. It's not necessary that your self- assessments be shared with the List but do put some thought into the skill set you plan to have in your bag of tricks by the time you're ready to launch with all the seats occupied. Yeah, right .... If this were MY airplane, I'd be trading off cost of ownership and practical utility of every installed accessory while maintaining the notion that under the worst case conditions, I might have to dig the hand held radios out of the flight bag. A very tiny risk to be sure but it's your personal confidence level for making plan-C . . . D or whatever save your buns. I also like to have an hand-held radio in the bag of tricks Hence the real driver for choosing how much stuff you hang on the panel has more to do with how well you think you can do without it. If your confidence level is low, then a plan-b for loss of any particular item gets elevated in priority. THESE mental exercises will drive how many alternators, batteries, busses and kilobux worth of hardware will fly with you every flight whether routinely useful or not. So mission profiles, skill sets, FMEA and load analysis is where the planning starts. Ok, now what do you think? Carlos


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:22:32 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: RE: Electric System architecture (was Charging
    the Aux Battery) > > > Do any of these accessories feature built in > back up batteries and/or connections brought > out for dual power sourcing? >Yes, the EFIS will be dual power sourcing. >I am using a VP-X Pro box. Oopa . . . okay, there's not much I can do for you in terms of architecture . . . that's pretty much carved in stone. We can certainly continue to discuss application and suitability of various parts, but I'm not sure there's much I can contribute for architecture decisions that are not pre-determined out of the box. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 01:26:40 PM PST US
    From: Peter Pengilly <peter@sportingaero.com>
    Subject: Dual voltage output from fuel quantity senders
    I have 2 fuel gauges in my airplane that work on 12v and 5v, and only one (resistance type) sender. I am trying to figure out how to get both gauges to work and be accurate. The 12v gauge is a straight analogue device with a pointer. The 5v gauge is part of an EFIS. At present I am using the analogue gauge only and the EFIS is continually upset at having no fuel quantity input. I have looked into a solution using an Arduino, sampling the data in doesn't seem to be too difficult, using the analogue input and a voltage divider circuit to drop the input voltage. I think I can get the Arduino to drive something like a MCP41100 8 bit dual digital potentiometer as an output device, with the 2 channels one for each of the 12v & 5v circuits. However these devices work at 5v and low current. So my question to the smart people here is how to I use the output of these digipots to look to the gauges as though they are a 30-240 ohm fuel quantity sender? Regards, Peter


    Message 4


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    Time: 01:35:17 PM PST US
    From: "Michael Orth" <mosurf@xplornet.com>
    Subject: Re: RE: Electric System architecture (was Charging
    the Aux Battery) Bob & Carlos, What a great, and insightful, exchange of information and facts. Clear, concise, and easily readable. Keep it up, Michael ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- From: Carlos Trigo Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2013 12:00 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Electric System architecture (was Charging the Aux Battery) Please see answers below -----Mensagem original----- De: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Em nome de Robert L. Nuckolls, III Enviada: 1 de outubro de 2013 22:18 Para: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Assunto: RE: AeroElectric-List: Charging the Aux Battery --> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> At 11:41 AM 10/1/2013, you wrote: ><trigo@mail.telepac.pt> > >Bob > >Thank you for the dissertation about the theme I had proposed. >I confess that I still didn't read it thoroughly, so I will have to >digest it conveniently. > >Meanwhile, I can confirm that my question was not academic, I am >building an >RV-10 and did consider the Dual battery, One main Alternator - one Aux >alternator system. > >So far, I am considering a variation of the Z-14 architecture, but >still didn't reach the "end of the line" in what regards the final >schematic, so would appreciate all suggestions. > >Regards >Carlos Understand. I presume your airplane will be Lycoming powered and has a accessory pad that will NOT be occupied with a vacuum pump. Correct Do you plan to fly a significant portion of your use under instrument flight rules, over mountainous terrain or at night? Not a significant portion. But it would be nice to be able to fly IFR and at night. Do you plan to have a gps aided wing-leveler or better? Better, planning an auto-pilot. Engine electrically dependent in any way? It is a IO-540 You need to compile a list of every currently anticipated electro-whizzy. If you have actual running current for each device, record that value along. Peak currents too even if intermittent. Already done an excel table with A consumptions Do any of these accessories feature built in back up batteries and/or connections brought out for dual power sourcing? Yes, the EFIS will be dual power sourcing. I am using a VP-X Pro box. How do you rate yourself for competence/confidence that under total loss of panel instrumentation, you could get to where you originally intended to go with flight bag back-ups? Well, not so sure, but I do like to fly with the old paper map over my knee And I suppose an iPad with electronic charts will also travel in the glove box Since this is a 4-seated airplane, your approach toward risk mitigation is understandably more conservative. It's not necessary that your self- assessments be shared with the List but do put some thought into the skill set you plan to have in your bag of tricks by the time you're ready to launch with all the seats occupied. Yeah, right . If this were MY airplane, I'd be trading off cost of ownership and practical utility of every installed accessory while maintaining the notion that under the worst case conditions, I might have to dig the hand held radios out of the flight bag. A very tiny risk to be sure but it's your personal confidence level for making plan-C . . . D or whatever save your buns. I also like to have an hand-held radio in the bag of tricks Hence the real driver for choosing how much stuff you hang on the panel has more to do with how well you think you can do without it. If your confidence level is low, then a plan-b for loss of any particular item gets elevated in priority. THESE mental exercises will drive how many alternators, batteries, busses and kilobux worth of hardware will fly with you every flight whether routinely useful or not. So mission profiles, skill sets, FMEA and load analysis is where the planning starts. Ok, now what do you think? Carlos No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09/30/13


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:07:54 PM PST US
    Subject: ROTAX 912ULS ALT flicker..... Help?!
    From: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007@rogers.com>
    So, went for a flight today. Temps were chilly at 8 degrees Celsius. Fired her up with a voltage showing of 12.8 before turning the key. Fired right up. Then...... I noticed the ALT light showing a flicker, then to about half strength. Did this at all RPMS. It was showing a charge no problem, so I pulled the ALT breaker and reset. When I pulled the breaker, it dropped the charge. Push back in, and light flicker and back on. I decided to fly since it was in fact showing a charge. By the time the airplane was up to temps, it went off and never showed up again. Even in flight, I loaded the electrical system fully, and it didn't come back on. Any ideas? Here is the schematic from the airplane..... Thanks! Chad -------- C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409799#409799 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_712.jpg


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:33:12 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
    Subject: Re: ROTAX 912ULS ALT flicker..... Help?!
    At 09:06 PM 10/3/2013, you wrote: > >So, went for a flight today. Temps were chilly at 8 degrees Celsius. >Fired her up with a voltage showing of 12.8 before turning the key. >Fired right up. Then...... I noticed the ALT light showing a >flicker, then to about half strength. Did this at all RPMS. It was >showing a charge no problem, so I pulled the ALT breaker and reset. >When I pulled the breaker, it dropped the charge. Push back in, and >light flicker and back on. I decided to fly since it was in fact >showing a charge. By the time the airplane was up to temps, it went >off and never showed up again. Even in flight, I loaded the >electrical system fully, and it didn't come back on. Any ideas? > >Here is the schematic from the airplane..... > >Thanks! The Ducatti (Rotax) rectifier/regulator 'warning' circuit is not a sophisticated source of data. If your voltmeter reports a normal/steady bus voltage and the light flickers . . . I would have more faith in the voltmeter. If it were my airplane, I would disconnect the warning output from the regulator and drive the light with a real, low voltage warning sensor that accurately deduces bus voltage and flashes the light when the bus is below 13.0 volts. Eric Jones offers such a device. We'll have a new one out in the next few weeks (software and hardware are in the proof of concept phase). Bob . . .




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