Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:38 AM - Re: Cover of Revision 13 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 05:48 AM - Re: Cover of Revision 13 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: iPad charger? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:08 AM - Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (user9253)
5. 08:42 AM - Re: Charge battery thru Ground Power Jack (jonlaury)
6. 08:43 AM - Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Fred Klein)
8. 09:03 AM - Re Cover of Revision 13 (MLE)
9. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 09:41 AM - Re: Re Cover of Revision 13 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 09:41 AM - Re: iPad charger? (ronaldcox)
12. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Bill Bradburry)
13. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 09:51 AM - Re: Re: Charge battery thru Ground Power Jack (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 09:57 AM - Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Fred Klein)
16. 10:07 AM - Re: iPad charger? (Eric M. Jones)
17. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Fred Klein)
18. 10:35 AM - Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Fred Klein)
19. 11:57 AM - Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (user9253)
20. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Fred Klein)
21. 01:03 PM - Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Fred Klein)
22. 01:11 PM - Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Peter Pengilly)
23. 01:51 PM - Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround (Fred Klein)
24. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: iPad charger? (Eric Page)
25. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: iPad charger? (H. Marvin Haught)
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Subject: | Re: Cover of Revision 13 |
At 10:03 PM 10/11/2013, you wrote:
>
> > The front cover is of pretty high resolution and, of course,
> 8.5 x 11 inches. So the candidate image would probably want to be
> something on the order of 8500 pixels wide by 1100 tall.
>
>Theres a missing zero: 8500 x 11000 is what you meant I think
Correct! Thank you.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: Cover of Revision 13 |
At 10:49 PM 10/11/2013, you wrote:
>Here are some sterling examples of what this list, Aero Electric
>Connection is about, and that give a nod to our list-master Matt
>Dralle at the same time.
>
>See:
><http://alturl.com/jwgiu>http://alturl.com/jwgiu
>
>By the way Bob - I'd like to see something personal that you pick
>for the cover too.
>
>Bill
I'm pleased that you have picked up on the outcome
of Matt's work-product. I was going to write and ask
him if we could get a dramatic shot of his airplane
over the California landscape . . . or some other
shot that he likes. His airplane should certainly
be among those offered up for consideration.
The work we do here on the list is but one cog in
the free-market exchange of value driven by the
honorable exercise of Spontaneous Organization.
Matt's contributions to OBAM aviation and the
S0 mechanism is inarguable.
I will certainly vote along with the rest of you
but I want the cover to be a List Effort.
You guys are a critical component of the
machinery that makes it all work.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: iPad charger? |
At 12:00 AM 10/12/2013, you wrote:
><versoelectric@gmail.com>
>
>On Oct 11, 2013, at 8:11 PM, Sacha <uuccio@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yup. What I was wondering is, suppose you have a 5V supply with
> the right signaling voltages and plenty of power? Does paralleling
> two USB ports onto its output work to supply two iPads (or an iPad
> and fast-charge an iPhone) or does one need some kind of circuit to
> isolate one from the other?
>
>
>I can't think of any reason paralleling them wouldn't work, assuming
>you only want to charge Apple devices. I haven't paralleled the
>data pins in my design (because I want the ports to be able to
>charge two different brands of devices simultaneously) but the bulk
>charging current is shared.
>
>Eric
Paralleling the +5 supply does work. That's
what happens inside your computer. There may
be some provisions for circuit protection.
The +5 supply in a computer (the older ones
at last) can grunt 30 amps . . . real potential
for smoke of the USB cord's stranding . . .
typically 26AWG.
I've poked around on the pins of a I-GO
universal cigar lighter adapter to see if
I could deduce why their mini-A connectors
always keep my Motorola phone happy, but
some, not all, wall warts do not. It appears
that one of the USB data lines is tied to
either 5v or ground through a resistor. I
forget which now.
In any case, I don't think ANY of the USB
powered appliances are looking for any
'intelligent' connection to their power
sources . . . a simple bias network of
some kind keeps the appliance from complaining
about 'unauthorized' power sources.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
Having an avionics master switch is a bad idea. It is a single point of failure.
The endurance master switch is another single point of failure. It is more likely
to fail than a battery. 50 amps seems too big.
The cost of the EXP BUS should not influence the decision to use or not use it.
"inexperience and lack of knowledge of things electrical" is a good reason
NOT to use the EXP BUS. Discrete components are easier to troubleshoot and
replace.
You are better off using one of Bob Nuckolls well proven designs, perhaps Z-19/RB
(with E-Bus Relay) modified to meet the unique engine requirements.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410381#410381
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Subject: | Re: Charge battery thru Ground Power Jack |
Bob said:
"But even before that, what is the perceived
value of 'plugging-in'?"
OK, I would just feel better l if I could use the mostly dead weight GPJ for something
else besides an event that might never occur, i.e. being surprised by
a dead battery. But if that happened, it would be convenient to just connect to
the GPG with the charger w/o removing the cowling. Maybe in time I will get
more relaxed about having everything in top shape, but with this new bird, I'm
all over it like a new mother fixing anything that isn't right. And I confess
to being oversensitive to my battery settling on 12.4v, without a float charge,
after a month long undiagnosed problem of seeing it drop below 12v over a
few days because of the battery-bused ANR headset I'd left on ( the power indicator
was turned out of sight).
So I'm going to cut the cord ;-) and see where the batt settles now and maybe an
attitude adjustment will be the solution.
I do need to install a 12v outlet(s) in the cabin, so when that's done, I will
just use Joe G's idea to plug into it and connect to a charger when necessary.
John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410384#410384
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
I've been struggling to layout a circuit diagram which combines the
EXP 2 BUS configured for an external solenoid with the dual battery /
single alternator diagram Z-19 in the "Connection".
I understand the conditions that are a basis
for your struggles. You've purchased a lot of 'stuff',
cut holes in then panel and mounted it . . . and
you're only now beginning to sift the bits and
pieces in a quest for the elegant solution.
It's not clear to me how the List can be a great deal
of help . . . many options available to you at the
clean-sheet-of-paper stage for your planning are no
longer applicable.
The EXP-Bus architecture which was already pretty
busy is going to get still more complicated . . .
not a very pilot or maintenance friendly situation.
I have made a number of decisions which have committed me to the
digital world including:
- an engine w/ electronic ignition, fuel injection, and an ECU (EC3,
Real World Systems) which came w/ the engine,
Additionally, in order to provide redundancy, the engine and control
system includes:
- dual batteries, presently planned to be Odyssey 680's,
What are the energy demands to run the engine? If
you were powering nothing but the engine, how many
amps are required to keep the fires lit? What are
your design goals for battery only endurance? Will
one battery meet those goals or will you be taxing
both?
- independent back up battery for Skyview,
- independent back up battery for stand-alone GPS, Garmin 396,
With two fat batteries on board, backing up these items
with still more batteries seems excessively 'redundant'.
If the ship's batteries are depleted, the value
of having the panel lit seems contrary to the
purpose of having an 'endurance mode' of flight.
The idea is to have a carefully crafted Plan-B
that gets wheels on the ground before you (a)
run out of fuel and/or (b) run out of electrons.
Critical LOADS multiplied by TIME are the driving
factor. Do you know what those numbers are?
- redundant motherboards (A and B) for the ECU which are toggled from
the panel.
This architecture is not clear from your drawings.
How do TWO motherboards get switched into and out
of service?
OK...about the EXP BUS...I've now read many reports (including the
VAF threads) which point out its shortcomings...but having spent
$550 for it and its companion Indicator Module, and given my
inexperience and lack of knowledge of things electrical, I still
believe it has a place in my panel, so I hope any critique of what
I'm up to doesn't focus on simply getting rid of it.
Won't do that . . . but at the same time, be aware
that contributions from the List will be adjustments
to make do with what already exists as opposed
the artfully tailored design. The end result
would not be a candidate for a new z-figure . . .
in other words, not recommended for new design.
The main problem I'm having with the EXP BUS is that it simply does
not have the two 20 amp circuits my engine guy sez are
essential...one for the fuel injectors, and one for the coils. On my
circuit diagram, I attempt to address it by running those two
circuits off an Endurance bus which avoids the EXP BUS entirely.
That seems reasonable. Z-19 suggests two
battery busses with options to run the engine
from either bus.
I do use available circuits in the EXP BUS for the ECU, the EMS, and
the fuel pumps; these components
are also fed from the Endurance bus.
I suggest you divorce the engine from the EXP-Bus
entirely and plan on running the engine from its
own battery with an option for running it from the
main battery. You show three feeders to coils, injectors
and ECU. What is the recommended protection level for
each of these feeders?
I have space on my panel (just above the EXP BUS, and below the
Skyview flat screen)
for a row of 6 - CB / switches which are presently planned to be:
- rocker or toggle between Fuel Pump #1 and Fuel Pump #2,
- Endurance Master Switch / 50 amp CB,
- Battery #2 ON / OFF,
- 20 amp CB for Fuel Injectors,
- 20 amp CB for Coils,
- spare
That's a LOT of controls with risks for not
getting the right combination of switches open/closed
when things are not going well under the cowl . . .
Attached are pixs of my instrument panel in its present state, and a
proposed circuit diagram.
I'd be most appreciative of any comments, and particularly those
which point our errors or weakness in the diagram.
We'll do what we can but your meatloaf is already
in then pan and we're only now joining the conversation
about ways to make it taste better.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
On Oct 12, 2013, at 8:07 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Having an avionics master switch is a bad idea. It is a single point of failure.
> The endurance master switch is another single point of failure. It is more likely
to fail than a battery. 50 amps seems too big.
> The cost of the EXP BUS should not influence the decision to use or not use
it. "inexperience and lack of knowledge of things electrical" is a good reason
NOT to use the EXP BUS. Discrete components are easier to troubleshoot and
replace.
> You are better off using one of Bob Nuckolls well proven designs, perhaps Z-19/RB
(with E-Bus Relay) modified to meet the unique engine requirements.
Joe...I thank you for your succinct and prompt assessment...much to ponder...as
I wrote, I've struggled in my efforts to integrate the EXP Bus w/ Z-19 and to
overcome the limitations of the EXP Bus w/ respect to my "unique engine requirements".
As you point out, the 50 amp size of the endurance master switch is too big...after
reviewing my notes, I see that the injectors draw 1 to 2 amps each as do
the coils...I'd misread a note calling for separate 20 amp circuits for both injectors
and coils.
As for the EXP Bus, I could bring myself to discard it completely if I can conclude
that by doing so, it would solve more problems than it would create. My decision
to buy it was based upon seeing it in a friend's CAM 125 powered Europa;
a retired RCAF senior test pilot, he admitted electronic ignorance and believed
it saved him a lot of time and trouble.
Thanks again,
Fred
Message 8
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Subject: | Re Cover of Revision 13 |
How about using one of the Z drawings on the cover, a smaller version of
the real deal of course.
Marty
Time: 09:37:45 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cover of Revision 13
Still looking for suggestions/photos as candidtates
for the front cover of Revision 13. Many of you will
recall that we had a run-off here on the list to
choose from several options on R12. At the moment,
there's nothing in the hopper . . .
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
At 10:07 AM 10/12/2013, you wrote:
>
>Having an avionics master switch is a bad idea. It is a single
>point of failure.
Let's ponder the possibility of making the AV master
switch the e-bus alternate feed. This would require that
the upstream side of the switch be fed from the ship's
battery bus . . . and a diode feed be added from main
bus to the avionics cum e-bus.
>The endurance master switch is another single point of failure. It
>is more likely to fail than a battery. 50 amps seems too big.
Yeah . . . if we can get all the numbers for running
the engine, perhaps we can move toward a Z-19 configuration
that eliminates the need for a single switch to manage
all engine power feeders.
> The cost of the EXP BUS should not influence the decision to use
> or not use it. "inexperience and lack of knowledge of things
> electrical" is a good reason NOT to use the EXP BUS. Discrete
> components are easier to troubleshoot and replace.
> You are better off using one of Bob Nuckolls well proven designs,
> perhaps Z-19/RB (with E-Bus Relay) modified to meet the unique
> engine requirements.
It may be possible/practical to get there without taking
a chain-saw to the panel. I don't know what the switches
are like on the EXP-Bus but they can't be any worse than
those used on the C-150 for a decade or so . . . and while
a significant maintenance item for the TC world with
$50 shop labor rates, many of those switches did just
fine for a long time.
How can we eliminate single points of failure and leave
the EXP-Bus largely intact?
Another point I've pondered is the idea of taking the
alternator b-lead to the battery or starter contactors
through a current limiter and not bringing the feeder
into the cockpit.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Re Cover of Revision 13 |
At 11:03 AM 10/12/2013, you wrote:
>How about using one of the Z drawings on the cover, a smaller
>version of the real deal of course.
>Marty
>
>Time: 09:37:45 AM PST US
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><<mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cover of Revision 13
>
Okay, we'll throw that into the hat for consideration.
Do any of you photoshop drivers out there want to
play with some assemblage of z-figure excerpts
as a front cover? If you have Adobe Acrobat, you
can do really nice screen captures off the pdf files.
I can also supply pdfs with the light weights adjusted
for better 'pop' . . .
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: iPad charger? |
Has anyone looked into this device? I've tried it on the bench and it seems to
power my iPad mini just fine. But then most cheapies do, with the attendant
iOS ver. 7 warning about it not being a certified accessory.
Plan to use it in my Glasair panel unless someone warns me off.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0082CXEI8/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Looks well made, takes 12v input, and looks nice in panel. Doesn't seem to cause
a lot of noise in my handheld radio.
Ron Cox
Glasair is about to fly!
--------
Ron Cox
Glasair Super II F/T
Under Construction at C77
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410391#410391
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
Fred,
Z-19 has a battery buss for each of the batteries. If you have an
electrically dependent engine, you should run everything that the engine
needs to keep operating off of those battery busses. I am talking about the
engine controller, fuel pumps, injector power, igniter power, etc..
You should be able to shut off the master and never have a hiccup from your
engine. I would not put anything you need to remain in the air thru that
EXP BUS.
Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Klein
Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround
On Oct 12, 2013, at 8:07 AM, user9253 wrote:
>
> Having an avionics master switch is a bad idea. It is a single point of
failure.
> The endurance master switch is another single point of failure. It is
more likely to fail than a battery. 50 amps seems too big.
> The cost of the EXP BUS should not influence the decision to use or not
use it. "inexperience and lack of knowledge of things electrical" is a good
reason NOT to use the EXP BUS. Discrete components are easier to
troubleshoot and replace.
> You are better off using one of Bob Nuckolls well proven designs, perhaps
Z-19/RB (with E-Bus Relay) modified to meet the unique engine requirements.
Joe...I thank you for your succinct and prompt assessment...much to
ponder...as I wrote, I've struggled in my efforts to integrate the EXP Bus
w/ Z-19 and to overcome the limitations of the EXP Bus w/ respect to my
"unique engine requirements".
As you point out, the 50 amp size of the endurance master switch is too
big...after reviewing my notes, I see that the injectors draw 1 to 2 amps
each as do the coils...I'd misread a note calling for separate 20 amp
circuits for both injectors and coils.
As for the EXP Bus, I could bring myself to discard it completely if I can
conclude that by doing so, it would solve more problems than it would
create. My decision to buy it was based upon seeing it in a friend's CAM 125
powered Europa; a retired RCAF senior test pilot, he admitted electronic
ignorance and believed it saved him a lot of time and trouble.
Thanks again,
Fred
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
>
>
>As you point out, the 50 amp size of the endurance master switch is
>too big...after reviewing my notes, I see that the injectors draw 1
>to 2 amps each as do the coils...I'd misread a note calling for
>separate 20 amp circuits for both injectors and coils.
Aha! that's good to hear . . . What's the
ECU draw?
>As for the EXP Bus, I could bring myself to discard it completely if
>I can conclude that by doing so, it would solve more problems than
>it would create. My decision to buy it was based upon seeing it in a
>friend's CAM 125 powered Europa; a retired RCAF senior test pilot,
>he admitted electronic ignorance and believed it saved him a lot of
>time and trouble.
These things DO save a lot of time if you can
use them plug-n-play with the architecture around
which the panel was designed. The EXP-Bus is
tailored to the legacy TC aircraft systems with
avionics bus, no battery buss(es), b-lead coming
into the cockpit, etc.
There are tens of thousands of airplanes carrying
happy pilots around with that architecture so there's
noting 'wrong' with it. But incorporating alternative
design goals into a cookie-cutter product can be
a challenge . . . let's see what we can do with it.
Fred, is your alternator internally regulated? Are
you amenable to modifying it for compatibility with
external management of over-voltage events?
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: Charge battery thru Ground Power Jack |
>
>I do need to install a 12v outlet(s) in the cabin, so when that's
>done, I will just use Joe G's idea to plug into it and connect to a
>charger when necessary.
>John
That's a proven recipe for success. Dozens of my readers
over the years have installed cigar lighter sockets and/or
unique 12vdc power outlets powered through a battery-bus
fuse. This access to the battery offers a means
by which the charger/maintainer can be connected to the
battery . . . with a cord hanging out through a cracked
open door or canopy.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
On Oct 12, 2013, at 8:43 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> I've been struggling to layout a circuit diagram which combines the
EXP 2 BUS configured for an external solenoid with the dual battery /
single alternator diagram Z-19 in the "Connection".
>
> I understand the conditions that are a basis for your struggles.
Bob,
Thank you for your thoughtful, point by point dissection of my
posting...you raise a number of questions which I know I need to have
answered...and I appreciate your restraint and good humor.
It may take a while to sort out things...you're quite correct in writing
that I am on "a quest for the elegant solution" for what goes on behind
the panel as well in as all other aspects of my aircraft.
Certainly my intention when purchasing an EMS designed to compliment my
ECU, an integrated avionics suite like Skyview, and the EXP Bus for that
matter, was to eliminate as many "seams" as possible.
With utmost respect,
Fred
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: iPad charger? |
> I've made one of these 10-37V input, variable output 5A linear chargers for a
customer. I don't like switch mode power supplies where they can be avoided due
to the unknowns of RFI/EMI. Better quality switchers CAN be found.
>
> I might be persuaded to make a run of these in about a month.
Hah! And I'll deny I ever said it.
I will bail out of this project for now. A couple other Eric's might have products
that will do the job. I've looked into the design and a unit that will do
the job at 1500 mA can be made to sell for $100/socket. Considering that the panel
mounted USB socket is $10 and the parts come to $50, that's not so bad. There
are cheaper ways to go but they are limited in their recharging power, but
still suitable for some devices.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410399#410399
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
On Oct 12, 2013, at 9:48 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>> As you point out, the 50 amp size of the endurance master switch is
too big...after reviewing my notes, I see that the injectors draw 1 to 2
amps each as do the coils...I'd misread a note calling for separate 20
amp circuits for both injectors and coils.
>
> Aha! that's good to hear . . . What's the ECU draw?
Bob...ECU draws 1/2 amp...(exclusive of fuel injectors
and coils)
>
>> As for the EXP Bus, I could bring myself to discard it completely if
I can conclude that by doing so, it would solve more problems than it
would create. My decision to buy it was based upon seeing it in a
friend's CAM 125 powered Europa; a retired RCAF senior test pilot, he
admitted electronic ignorance and believed it saved him a lot of time
and trouble.
>
> These things DO save a lot of time if you can
> use them plug-n-play with the architecture around
> which the panel was designed.
...which indeed was my intention...and, I might add,
that pulling the EXP from my instrument panel module and replacing it w/
a blank plate is a 15 min. job...no hack saw req'd...
> The EXP-Bus is tailored to the legacy TC aircraft systems with
> avionics bus, no battery buss(es), b-lead coming
> into the cockpit, etc.
>
> There are tens of thousands of airplanes carrying
> happy pilots around with that architecture so there's
> noting 'wrong' with it. But incorporating alternative
> design goals into a cookie-cutter product can be
> a challenge . . . let's see what we can do with it.
...I'm reluctant to throw the baby out w/ the
bathwater...
>
> Fred, is your alternator internally regulated?
...yes...
> Are you amenable to modifying it for compatibility with
> external management of over-voltage events?
...the very thought of doing so fills me w/ dread, and
first I'd like to research and determine to what extent it manages
over-voltage events internally...
Fred
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
On Oct 12, 2013, at 8:43 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Additionally, in order to provide redundancy, the engine and control
system includes:
>
> - redundant motherboards (A and B) for the ECU which are toggled from
the panel.
>
> This architecture is not clear from your drawings.
> How do TWO motherboards get switched into and out
> of service?
Bob...in the center of the ECU control panel are 2 toggle switches...the
one at right toggles between "A" and "B"...the "A" is hidden by the
switch...using the LCD screen for the EMS, the ECU is programmable from
the cockpit...Fred
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
Assuming that the EXP 2 Bus is utilized, how about feeding the E-Bus from each
end, one end from battery #1 and the other end from battery #2? Then the failure
of any one wire or connection will not open power going to the E-Bus. 30
amp fuses could be inserted near the batteries. Diodes prevent starting or fault
current from flowing from one battery to the other through the E-Bus. See
schematic attached.
Joe
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410404#410404
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/e_bus_118.jpg
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
On Oct 12, 2013, at 11:55 AM, user9253 wrote:
> Assuming that the EXP 2 Bus is utilized, how about feeding the E-Bus
from each end, one end from battery #1 and the other end from battery
#2?
Thanks Joe...by coincidence, I've just sent off an email to the makers
of the EXP asking almost the very same thing...stay tuned, Fred
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
On Oct 12, 2013, at 8:43 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> - independent back up battery for Skyview,
>
> - independent back up battery for stand-alone GPS, Garmin 396,
>
> With two fat batteries on board, backing up these items
> with still more batteries seems excessively 'redundant'.
> If the ship's batteries are depleted, the value
> of having the panel lit seems contrary to the
> purpose of having an 'endurance mode' of flight.
Bob...my reasoning behind the individual little back up batteries for
Skyview EFIS and my back up GPS was not to address an immediate concern
for main battery life, but rather to provide continued operation
independent of the aircraft electrical system, be it powered by the
"main bus" or the "endurance bus".
On the other hand, I thought that given the degree of my engine's
dependence on electricity, it would be a good thing to lessen the load
going thru the endurance bus...I've yet to quantify the implications of
this, but conceptually, I thought it was a good move.
No question in my mind that I want to incorporate a robust endurance
bus...a couple of years ago, a Europa pal, Paul McCallister, was struck
by lightning, and continued flying for 90 minutes to your design which
he'd followed which included an endurance bus as part of your Rotax 9XX
diagram.
Fred
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
Fred,
I had an Exp Bus 2 in my airplane for several years. The original
builder fitted it after a similar thought process to your friend's.
Thinking about its good points and not so good.
Good things:
It has a good instrument light dimmer
Not so good things:
It is difficult to expand
The current sensing lights on the indicator module aren't that accurate
(cause more concern than they are worth)
It is difficult to add additional services
I found I had an intermittent fault that cut power to the avionics
momentarily, which took the txpdr off line for long enough that ATC
would give me a hard time, but I could not talk back to them as the
radio was going through its self test. Never did find out what the
problem was.
I would use it to power those items that you could fly without.
I would route the power to the ECUs well away from it (for that matter,
anything to do with the engine/fuel pumps) and would also power the
radio, txpdr & Skyview from the Endurance bus only (with 2 batteries you
don't really need a skyview battery as well).
I would have an individual switch to connect each battery to the
endurance bus (one switch is a single point failure), and an individual
switch for each fuel pump - perhaps gated to stop inadvertent switching
off.
If comm, txpdr & Skyview remain powered from Av bus on Exp2 I would not
use the avionics master switch on the board (another potential single
point failure) - can it be jumpered? If it only powers the GPS (with
internal battery) & intercom there is not much point in a jumper, leave
it in.
Peter
On 12/10/2013 07:29, Fred Klein wrote:
> Guys...electrical wizards...
>
> With full knowledge of my ignorance of all things electric but with only scant
knowledge of the challenges which lay ahead, some time ago I purchased an EXP
2 Bus, thinking that having one would simplify many issues and offset some
of the novelty inherent with my auto engine conversion, a MPEFIed derivative of
a EA81 Subaru built by RAM Performance Aero Engines which is liquid cooled.
Aircraft is a Europa XS monowheel which is typically powered w/ a 912S or 914.
>
> I've been struggling to layout a circuit diagram which combines the EXP 2 BUS
configured for an external solenoid with the dual battery / single alternator
diagram Z-19 in the "Connection".
>
> I have made a number of decisions which have committed me to the digital world
including:
>
> - an engine w/ electronic ignition, fuel injection, and an ECU (EC3, Real World
Systems) which came w/ the engine,
>
> - a digital EMS (EM3, Real World Systems) which "talks" w/ the ECU,
>
> - a digital EFIS (Skyview) including moving map, digital terrain, Transponder,
COM, and Intercom.
>
> By selecting an auto engine conversion, I have committed to:
>
> - one alternator, belt driven,
>
> - one coolant pump, belt driven,
>
> - single spark plug in each cylinder.
>
> Additionally, in order to provide redundancy, the engine and control system
includes:
>
> - dual batteries, presently planned to be Odyssey 680's,
>
> - two independent high pressure fuel pumps, each w/ their own filter,
>
> - independent back up battery for Skyview,
>
> - independent back up battery for stand-alone GPS, Garmin 396,
>
> - redundant motherboards (A and B) for the ECU which are toggled from the panel.
>
> OK...about the EXP BUS...I've now read many reports (including the VAF threads)
which point out its shortcomings...but having spent $550 for it and its companion
Indicator Module, and given my inexperience and lack of knowledge of
things electrical, I still believe it has a place in my panel, so I hope any critique
of what I'm up to doesn't focus on simply getting rid of it.
>
> The main problem I'm having with the EXP BUS is that it simply does not have
the two 20 amp circuits my engine guy sez are essential...one for the fuel injectors,
and one for the coils. On my circuit diagram, I attempt to address it
by running those two circuits off an Endurance bus which avoids the EXP BUS entirely.
>
> I do use available circuits in the EXP BUS for the ECU, the EMS, and the fuel
pumps; these components are also fed from the Endurance bus.
>
> I have space on my panel (just above the EXP BUS, and below the Skyview flat
screen) for a row of 6 - CB / switches which are presently planned to be:
>
> - rocker or toggle between Fuel Pump #1 and Fuel Pump #2,
> - Endurance Master Switch / 50 amp CB,
> - Battery #2 ON / OFF,
> - 20 amp CB for Fuel Injectors,
> - 20 amp CB for Coils,
> - spare
>
> Attached are pixs of my instrument panel in its present state, and a proposed
circuit diagram.
> I'd be most appreciative of any comments, and particularly those which point
our errors or weakness in the diagram.
>
> Fred
>
>
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Subject: | Re: EXP 2 Bus workaround |
On Oct 12, 2013, at 1:11 PM, Peter Pengilly wrote:
> I had an Exp Bus 2 in my airplane for several years. The original
builder fitted it after a similar thought process to your friend's.
Thinking about its good points and not so good.
>
> Good things:
> It has a good instrument light dimmer
Peter...what a ringing endorsement...!...LOL...
Thanks much for your thoughtful suggestions...I am indeed back at the
drawing board.
Fred
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Subject: | Re: iPad charger? |
Ron,
Try a simple test to see if you'll be satisfied with this device's in-flight performance:
- Run the battery in your iPad down a good amount
- Turn the screen up to full brightness
- Set the auto-lock so the screen stays on
- Launch the aviation app you use in flight
- Connect the iPad to any external GPS/AHRS box you use
- Set the app to moving map or EFIS mode so it's processing received data
- Note its battery level, then plug your iPad into this USB outlet
The rise or fall of your iPad's battery level over time will tell you what you
need to know. If you want to be ambitious, run down your cellphone and plug that
in at the same time.
Hopefully you've gotten lucky!
Cheers,
Eric
do not archive
On Oct 12, 2013, at 9:41 AM, "ronaldcox" <flyboyron@gmail.com> wrote:
> Has anyone looked into this device? I've tried it on the bench and it seems
to power my iPad mini just fine. But then most cheapies do, with the attendant
iOS ver. 7 warning about it not being a certified accessory.
>
> Plan to use it in my Glasair panel unless someone warns me off.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0082CXEI8/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>
> Looks well made, takes 12v input, and looks nice in panel. Doesn't seem to cause
a lot of noise in my handheld radio.
>
> Ron Cox
> Glasair is about to fly!
>
> --------
> Ron Cox
> Glasair Super II F/T
> Under Construction at C77
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410391#410391
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: iPad charger? |
I certainly would be interested to know the results of that experiment. Keep us
posted!
M. Haught
On Oct 12, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Eric Page wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> Try a simple test to see if you'll be satisfied with this device's in-flight
performance:
>
> - Run the battery in your iPad down a good amount
> - Turn the screen up to full brightness
> - Set the auto-lock so the screen stays on
> - Launch the aviation app you use in flight
> - Connect the iPad to any external GPS/AHRS box you use
> - Set the app to moving map or EFIS mode so it's processing received data
> - Note its battery level, then plug your iPad into this USB outlet
>
> The rise or fall of your iPad's battery level over time will tell you what you
need to know. If you want to be ambitious, run down your cellphone and plug
that in at the same time.
>
> Hopefully you've gotten lucky!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Eric
>
> do not archive
>
>
> On Oct 12, 2013, at 9:41 AM, "ronaldcox" <flyboyron@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Has anyone looked into this device? I've tried it on the bench and it seems
to power my iPad mini just fine. But then most cheapies do, with the attendant
iOS ver. 7 warning about it not being a certified accessory.
>>
>> Plan to use it in my Glasair panel unless someone warns me off.
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0082CXEI8/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
>>
>> Looks well made, takes 12v input, and looks nice in panel. Doesn't seem to cause
a lot of noise in my handheld radio.
>>
>> Ron Cox
>> Glasair is about to fly!
>>
>> --------
>> Ron Cox
>> Glasair Super II F/T
>> Under Construction at C77
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410391#410391
>
>
>
>
>
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